| General Election? 10:30 - Apr 18 with 41458 views | ElHoop |
What's May up to? - Downing St 11.15am. |  | | |  |
| General Election? on 20:03 - Apr 19 with 2213 views | qprphil |
| General Election? on 19:34 - Apr 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
This is another problem with GE's voting for a personality which really is irrelevant and not voting on the issues and manifest of the party.
It really is shallow to just go on who the leader is.
I hate May and Tiny Tim and I understand why some don't like JC I wish there was someone better but there is not, so you have to look at what their party is really offering. and for me the Tory's and the Lib's are far worse than Labour.
When did you have food banks and soup kitchens and 4 Million in poverty under Labour.
While there are loads of Labour Mp's that don't want JC as leader but there are very few who would say he is wrong with what he wants to do which are core Labour policies on fairness and rights at work, with housing and protecting the NHS and education to name just a few that the Tories have been ripping apart for years and will continue to do.
I've never met a Tory supporter who cared about anyone else, selfish does not come close, the children of Thatcher. [Post edited 19 Apr 2017 19:40]
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I get your drift regarding selfish Tory voters, but as the saying goes, if you don't look after yourself, no one else will. I don't know your age or circumstances , but if the Tories said they would give you an extra £50 a week on your pension and then you still wouldn't vote for them, then all credit to you, because I certainly would. I like many have worked most of my life, and are now retired. We now have too many who cant be bothered to work, they would rather sit at home drinking and smoking, these are the people who bring our society down, not the people who slog themselves to death week after week. Genuine people who cant work, fair enough, we all should help, spongers, no thanks. I'm all for things like an extra 1p on income tax for the NHS for those earning high wages etc. |  | | |
| General Election? on 20:33 - Apr 19 with 2179 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| General Election? on 20:03 - Apr 19 by qprphil |
I get your drift regarding selfish Tory voters, but as the saying goes, if you don't look after yourself, no one else will. I don't know your age or circumstances , but if the Tories said they would give you an extra £50 a week on your pension and then you still wouldn't vote for them, then all credit to you, because I certainly would. I like many have worked most of my life, and are now retired. We now have too many who cant be bothered to work, they would rather sit at home drinking and smoking, these are the people who bring our society down, not the people who slog themselves to death week after week. Genuine people who cant work, fair enough, we all should help, spongers, no thanks. I'm all for things like an extra 1p on income tax for the NHS for those earning high wages etc. |
spongers
I never really understood where this comes from, the way it's betrayed there are millions of them.
Unemployment 1.6 million atm which is pretty low in reality, are they all spongers ?
It's pretty hard to stay on benefits nowadays but I guess those that have been lucky not having to had to claim don't really know how hard it is.
Well that is a lie I do know where this comes from, the Tory media, the cheap to make programs like Benefit Street, you never see programs about the rich tax evaders, you are brainwashed in to believing the country only has these "low life spongers" well people that evade taxes are also spongers and cost the country a lot more than those on benefits.
Also remember that if you are rich or poor or average, that you are benefiting off the backs of people that do want to work but can only get zero hour contracts on minimum wage. I would call that sponging off the poor, what do you call it ? [Post edited 19 Apr 2017 20:52]
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| General Election? on 20:50 - Apr 19 with 2162 views | Hunterhoop |
| General Election? on 17:36 - Apr 19 by robith |
AV is pointless though - I believe it delivers the same result as a straight Westminster plurality vote 90+% of the time.
Can't actually believe that was what the Lib Dem sold their soul for. A referendum on a minor change and destroying the idea of electoral reform for a generation. Well done lads |
They didn't. It wasn't.
A proper Proportional Representation electoral system was what they wanted, but they got screwed by the Conservatives mo big the goalposts on what constituted such a thing, and then a load of idiots supported leaving us with FPTP. AV is far from perfect and far from what the Lib Dems thought they were getting a referendum on, but it's still better than FPTP.
And don't forgot, the Lib Dems managed to get through a big increase in the income tax threshold, in exchange for some concessions, which then proved such rises in income tax thresholds worked economically, and have paved the way for further increases, which directly benefits millions of the population. That was some achievement, even if they didn't get the electoral reform they deserved and the UK needs. |  | | |
| General Election? on 21:16 - Apr 19 with 2117 views | qprphil |
| General Election? on 20:33 - Apr 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
spongers
I never really understood where this comes from, the way it's betrayed there are millions of them.
Unemployment 1.6 million atm which is pretty low in reality, are they all spongers ?
It's pretty hard to stay on benefits nowadays but I guess those that have been lucky not having to had to claim don't really know how hard it is.
Well that is a lie I do know where this comes from, the Tory media, the cheap to make programs like Benefit Street, you never see programs about the rich tax evaders, you are brainwashed in to believing the country only has these "low life spongers" well people that evade taxes are also spongers and cost the country a lot more than those on benefits.
Also remember that if you are rich or poor or average, that you are benefiting off the backs of people that do want to work but can only get zero hour contracts on minimum wage. I would call that sponging off the poor, what do you call it ? [Post edited 19 Apr 2017 20:52]
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Where did I say they were all spongers.? I know of many couples, and singles who don't want to work, as they get more staying at home and doing odd cash jobs into the bargain. I think that rich tax evaders are also spongers, so I agree with you on that point. But everyone will never be equal, lets say a doctor compared to a nurse, who deserves more.? That's not belittling what a nurse does, as they are important as well, male or female. A lot of people put more effort into their future All I know is , if I was a youngster now, I wouldn't be on zero hour contracts, and I wouldn't be on benefits, I would find a way. No, I'm not rich, and my parents were poor, we lived in a first floor flat in Wembley, and I got kicked out of Copland school at 15, but still made something of my life, it did take me another three years for the penny to drop though. | | | |
| General Election? on 21:32 - Apr 19 with 2096 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| General Election? on 21:16 - Apr 19 by qprphil |
Where did I say they were all spongers.? I know of many couples, and singles who don't want to work, as they get more staying at home and doing odd cash jobs into the bargain. I think that rich tax evaders are also spongers, so I agree with you on that point. But everyone will never be equal, lets say a doctor compared to a nurse, who deserves more.? That's not belittling what a nurse does, as they are important as well, male or female. A lot of people put more effort into their future All I know is , if I was a youngster now, I wouldn't be on zero hour contracts, and I wouldn't be on benefits, I would find a way. No, I'm not rich, and my parents were poor, we lived in a first floor flat in Wembley, and I got kicked out of Copland school at 15, but still made something of my life, it did take me another three years for the penny to drop though. |
I'm just saying a lot of this "spongers" is exaggerated
I left school at 15 a year early to work in a greengrocers as my mum with 4 kids and working as a silver service waitress could not manage. Did an apprenticeship and left home at 19 and been self employed all my working life
Sure I've seen people taking advantage of benefits over those yeas but you did say "we now have to many living off benefits" but it's lower than it been for 30 years and a lot harder than it's ever been to stay on them
Working tax credits are a consequence of companies paying low wages and the government having to top them up, more money goes on working tax credits than on benefits, the tories wanted to cut them and they will if they get in again making people even poorer. [Post edited 19 Apr 2017 21:33]
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| General Election? on 21:34 - Apr 19 with 2096 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election? on 15:58 - Apr 19 by Rs_Holy |
This election is great news for me… I voted to leave the EU last June but am too afraid to admit it in public. The young, the educated and the middle classes have spoken! I have been told that leavers have ruined the country for everyone for the foreseeable future (maybe longer)!
So now is their chance to change things and keep us in Europe.
What if all the remainers high jacked this election? If all of the 16 million who voted to stay (plus all the young voters who wanted to stay but were too busy to vote) backed the Lib Dems??? They would win the election... We would then have to stay in Europe... Corbyn would go... May would go ... there would be a shift in the political landscape back to centre. (There'd also be an increase in spending for the health service and education).
Trouble is it won’t happen because it would take quite a bit of organising, plus mean ditching political elegances (albeit for one election only) and the Lib Dems are still seen as a wasted vote. But if the Remainers are truly serious about staying in the EU they now have a chance to do something about it.
If they don’t I will be able to come out of the closet (re Brexit), admit my decision last year and say “well you had every opportunity to vote for a party who would have kept us in Europe…. But you didn’t!” |
401 out of 632 constituencies voted to leave the EU .
So if remainers voted Lib Dem and Leavers voted Tory , the Torys would have a 231 majority. |  | | |
| General Election? on 21:48 - Apr 19 with 2066 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election? on 20:50 - Apr 19 by Hunterhoop |
They didn't. It wasn't.
A proper Proportional Representation electoral system was what they wanted, but they got screwed by the Conservatives mo big the goalposts on what constituted such a thing, and then a load of idiots supported leaving us with FPTP. AV is far from perfect and far from what the Lib Dems thought they were getting a referendum on, but it's still better than FPTP.
And don't forgot, the Lib Dems managed to get through a big increase in the income tax threshold, in exchange for some concessions, which then proved such rises in income tax thresholds worked economically, and have paved the way for further increases, which directly benefits millions of the population. That was some achievement, even if they didn't get the electoral reform they deserved and the UK needs. |
You are right that it was a Lib Dem promise to raise the personal allowance but they were also complicit in the austerity measures that paid for it
I dont think you can claim that the Torys were forced into it .
Low taxation is a basic Conservative principle | | | |
| General Election? on 21:48 - Apr 19 with 2065 views | qprphil |
| General Election? on 21:32 - Apr 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
I'm just saying a lot of this "spongers" is exaggerated
I left school at 15 a year early to work in a greengrocers as my mum with 4 kids and working as a silver service waitress could not manage. Did an apprenticeship and left home at 19 and been self employed all my working life
Sure I've seen people taking advantage of benefits over those yeas but you did say "we now have to many living off benefits" but it's lower than it been for 30 years and a lot harder than it's ever been to stay on them
Working tax credits are a consequence of companies paying low wages and the government having to top them up, more money goes on working tax credits than on benefits, the tories wanted to cut them and they will if they get in again making people even poorer. [Post edited 19 Apr 2017 21:33]
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Good discussion with you, better than watching the telly.!!!!!!! | | | |
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| General Election? on 21:51 - Apr 19 with 2053 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| General Election? on 21:48 - Apr 19 by qprphil |
Good discussion with you, better than watching the telly.!!!!!!! |
I'm watching all those spongers drinking and smoking in Benidorm LOL | |
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| General Election? on 22:01 - Apr 19 with 2045 views | Hunterhoop |
| General Election? on 21:48 - Apr 19 by essextaxiboy |
You are right that it was a Lib Dem promise to raise the personal allowance but they were also complicit in the austerity measures that paid for it
I dont think you can claim that the Torys were forced into it .
Low taxation is a basic Conservative principle |
This wasn't purely low taxation, it was a tax break with a disproportionate benefit for those earning the least. A redistributive tax break if you will. Far from a pure Conservative principle, and one they opposed at the time. | | | |
| General Election? on 22:36 - Apr 19 with 1998 views | Boston |
| General Election? on 21:16 - Apr 19 by qprphil |
Where did I say they were all spongers.? I know of many couples, and singles who don't want to work, as they get more staying at home and doing odd cash jobs into the bargain. I think that rich tax evaders are also spongers, so I agree with you on that point. But everyone will never be equal, lets say a doctor compared to a nurse, who deserves more.? That's not belittling what a nurse does, as they are important as well, male or female. A lot of people put more effort into their future All I know is , if I was a youngster now, I wouldn't be on zero hour contracts, and I wouldn't be on benefits, I would find a way. No, I'm not rich, and my parents were poor, we lived in a first floor flat in Wembley, and I got kicked out of Copland school at 15, but still made something of my life, it did take me another three years for the penny to drop though. |
Phill....Would that flat have been on Llanover Rd? | |
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| General Election? on 00:52 - Apr 20 with 1942 views | CiderwithRsie |
| General Election? on 21:48 - Apr 19 by essextaxiboy |
You are right that it was a Lib Dem promise to raise the personal allowance but they were also complicit in the austerity measures that paid for it
I dont think you can claim that the Torys were forced into it .
Low taxation is a basic Conservative principle |
It was in the LD manifesto. The idea was kicking around in LD policy long before austerity was thought of - austerity don't pay for it, it was a thing that the LDs insisted should be kept despite austerity
It was not in the Tory manifesto.
Implementing it was part of the coalition agreement.
Therefore it only happened because the LDs insisted. The Tories were forced into it every bloody step of the way. They then of course claimed credit for it at the next election, same as David Cameron claimed credit for same sex marriage which, whether you like it or not, was an LD policy (which TBF Theresa May helped pilot through - but it was her LD deputy who proposed it, not May.)
In fact I recall an unnamed Tory MP saying that they had to have the top rate of tax cut below 50% to make up for having to coincide the personal allowance. As Hunterhoop points out, low taxation for the rich is a Tory principle, marginal rates for the lower paid tend to rise due to shifting the tax onto NI (and indirect taxes like VAT). | | | |
| General Election? on 03:46 - Apr 20 with 1892 views | PlanetHonneywood |
I hear/read so many people say, 'fund the NHS' as if this is the magic answer for all that ails it, the miracle cure if you will.
The NHS was one of the greatest things that came out of the misery of WW2. It has stood proud and been a beacon around the world. We even took so much pride in it, it played a role in the opening ceremony of London 2012.
To go forward, sensibly, the most important thing is to remove politics from the debate.
Firstly, the reasons and guiding principles behind the setting up of the NHS, are long gone. It proceeded on the basis that in time, we'd all be so healthy and the NHS would reduce in size and use. Clearly, that hasn't happened. In fact, its gone in the opposite direction.
The reasons are; we've taken it for granted, both in terms of just expecting free on demand healthcare and not living healthy lives. All of which have added pressure on the NHS. For example, our diet is an utter scandal and the lifestyle choices of some are so ridiculous, that some people don't deserve the bodies they were given!
Our population has increased markedly, and of course, we're living longer and with it, bringing new health issues into the equation, that the NHS, country and in many ways, the world, hasn't properly geared itself up to deal with. Mainly age related mental and physical health problems, but diet lead problems are also a big problem.
What is needed, is a mature, sensible review and one that looks long into the future. We need an integrated approach and not just one that focuses on hospitals! It starts with sexual health, pre-natal education, forging better physical and mental health lifestyles from cradle to the grave, education in schools, the Environment Agency needs to look at air quality, that brings in transport policies and once that is done, then you can look at the provision of medical services. And the majority of that, is an affront to big business - imagine if kids ate more fruit, veg and not McDonald's? You can see where the resistance will come from!!
Just throwing money at the issue and pushing the health of the nation on to operating tables to sort out, is neither the solution nor wise. While one could argue, that the issue of funding feeds into the equally toxic issue of tax avoidance and evasion, I'm wary of any political party that says it is or will properly fund the NHS. To me it shows they know nothing.
So, if you're going to hang your vote on the NHS, look above and beyond cash to the bigger picture and ask anyone who seeks your vote, what will their party do to improve the health of the nation and not just funding the NHS.
As I say, politicians/political parties are essentially, useless and self-serving charlatans. This is not brain surgery, its common sense! [Post edited 20 Apr 2017 4:09]
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| General Election? on 06:41 - Apr 20 with 1832 views | HarrowRoadR |
| General Election? on 03:46 - Apr 20 by PlanetHonneywood |
I hear/read so many people say, 'fund the NHS' as if this is the magic answer for all that ails it, the miracle cure if you will.
The NHS was one of the greatest things that came out of the misery of WW2. It has stood proud and been a beacon around the world. We even took so much pride in it, it played a role in the opening ceremony of London 2012.
To go forward, sensibly, the most important thing is to remove politics from the debate.
Firstly, the reasons and guiding principles behind the setting up of the NHS, are long gone. It proceeded on the basis that in time, we'd all be so healthy and the NHS would reduce in size and use. Clearly, that hasn't happened. In fact, its gone in the opposite direction.
The reasons are; we've taken it for granted, both in terms of just expecting free on demand healthcare and not living healthy lives. All of which have added pressure on the NHS. For example, our diet is an utter scandal and the lifestyle choices of some are so ridiculous, that some people don't deserve the bodies they were given!
Our population has increased markedly, and of course, we're living longer and with it, bringing new health issues into the equation, that the NHS, country and in many ways, the world, hasn't properly geared itself up to deal with. Mainly age related mental and physical health problems, but diet lead problems are also a big problem.
What is needed, is a mature, sensible review and one that looks long into the future. We need an integrated approach and not just one that focuses on hospitals! It starts with sexual health, pre-natal education, forging better physical and mental health lifestyles from cradle to the grave, education in schools, the Environment Agency needs to look at air quality, that brings in transport policies and once that is done, then you can look at the provision of medical services. And the majority of that, is an affront to big business - imagine if kids ate more fruit, veg and not McDonald's? You can see where the resistance will come from!!
Just throwing money at the issue and pushing the health of the nation on to operating tables to sort out, is neither the solution nor wise. While one could argue, that the issue of funding feeds into the equally toxic issue of tax avoidance and evasion, I'm wary of any political party that says it is or will properly fund the NHS. To me it shows they know nothing.
So, if you're going to hang your vote on the NHS, look above and beyond cash to the bigger picture and ask anyone who seeks your vote, what will their party do to improve the health of the nation and not just funding the NHS.
As I say, politicians/political parties are essentially, useless and self-serving charlatans. This is not brain surgery, its common sense! [Post edited 20 Apr 2017 4:09]
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ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘🻠Absolutely spot on. |  | | |
| General Election? on 07:03 - Apr 20 with 1814 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election? on 00:52 - Apr 20 by CiderwithRsie |
It was in the LD manifesto. The idea was kicking around in LD policy long before austerity was thought of - austerity don't pay for it, it was a thing that the LDs insisted should be kept despite austerity
It was not in the Tory manifesto.
Implementing it was part of the coalition agreement.
Therefore it only happened because the LDs insisted. The Tories were forced into it every bloody step of the way. They then of course claimed credit for it at the next election, same as David Cameron claimed credit for same sex marriage which, whether you like it or not, was an LD policy (which TBF Theresa May helped pilot through - but it was her LD deputy who proposed it, not May.)
In fact I recall an unnamed Tory MP saying that they had to have the top rate of tax cut below 50% to make up for having to coincide the personal allowance. As Hunterhoop points out, low taxation for the rich is a Tory principle, marginal rates for the lower paid tend to rise due to shifting the tax onto NI (and indirect taxes like VAT). |
Why have the Torys carried it on while in Government alone and pledged to honour it until 2020 .Why didnt they stop it in 2015 ? | | | |
| General Election? on 07:17 - Apr 20 with 1807 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election? on 19:34 - Apr 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
This is another problem with GE's voting for a personality which really is irrelevant and not voting on the issues and manifest of the party.
It really is shallow to just go on who the leader is.
I hate May and Tiny Tim and I understand why some don't like JC I wish there was someone better but there is not, so you have to look at what their party is really offering. and for me the Tory's and the Lib's are far worse than Labour.
When did you have food banks and soup kitchens and 4 Million in poverty under Labour.
While there are loads of Labour Mp's that don't want JC as leader but there are very few who would say he is wrong with what he wants to do which are core Labour policies on fairness and rights at work, with housing and protecting the NHS and education to name just a few that the Tories have been ripping apart for years and will continue to do.
I've never met a Tory supporter who cared about anyone else, selfish does not come close, the children of Thatcher. [Post edited 19 Apr 2017 19:40]
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Nevet met a Tory who cared for anyone else ? So every charity worker , hospice volounteer , surgeon,doctor,social worker, nurse Rangers community trust worker , marathon charity runner n9ne of them have ever voted Tory ..is that right ? Or you just havnt met any ?
Not forgetting of course the massive foreign aid budget tje this Tory government pays dwarfing the payments from bigger countries with caring left leaning governments ... | | | |
| General Election? on 07:24 - Apr 20 with 1802 views | johncharles |
| General Election? on 07:03 - Apr 20 by essextaxiboy |
Why have the Torys carried it on while in Government alone and pledged to honour it until 2020 .Why didnt they stop it in 2015 ? |
They also pledged not to call an election until 2020. Don't trust Mrs. May to honour pledges. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| General Election? on 07:45 - Apr 20 with 1784 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election? on 07:24 - Apr 20 by johncharles |
They also pledged not to call an election until 2020. Don't trust Mrs. May to honour pledges. |
The facts have changed,she has changed her mind . Isnt that what we are told that open minded ,free thinking people do.? | | | |
| General Election? on 08:40 - Apr 20 with 1752 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| General Election? on 07:45 - Apr 20 by essextaxiboy |
The facts have changed,she has changed her mind . Isnt that what we are told that open minded ,free thinking people do.? |
Free thinking, well that would be nice, a first even.
Surely you're not oblivious to the price big business pays to mold the minds of our politicians? Its why big business doesn't want Brexit because it will scupper access to cheap labour. It's why May has diluted a report into the health of the nation. It's why former Goldman Sachs employees find themselves crafting global economic policies. Its why politicians dismantle media laws to allow the likes of Murdoch to build empires..........
The day you get a free thinking, fair minded, rational and gifted politician will be the day we can breath a sigh of relief. May is playing the game here, and while she speaks about ridding Westminster of the fuzz, there is speculation that its masking some unsavoury electioneering from 2015.
Frankly, I think there is more to it that we don't know. No way a cabinet with Johnson, Fox and Davies in its ranks could possibly fathom something like this without some outside guidance or nudging. | |
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| General Election? on 08:46 - Apr 20 with 1746 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| General Election? on 07:17 - Apr 20 by essextaxiboy |
Nevet met a Tory who cared for anyone else ? So every charity worker , hospice volounteer , surgeon,doctor,social worker, nurse Rangers community trust worker , marathon charity runner n9ne of them have ever voted Tory ..is that right ? Or you just havnt met any ?
Not forgetting of course the massive foreign aid budget tje this Tory government pays dwarfing the payments from bigger countries with caring left leaning governments ... |
Ok I used a wide tar brush I've not asked everyone in the world which party they support, I guess you must have to know if they are tories ? playing 
I'll say it this way
On the whole, any person I have spoken to that has strong tory alliances has been selfish arrogant, uncaring of others or society. much like most of those that are remoanes living in London who did not give a shite about the rest of the country or Sturgeon with her one policy agenda.
Look how the tories want to cut and are cutting disability allowances, these "charity workers , hospice volunteer , surgeon, doctor, social worker, nurse Rangers community trust worker , marathon charity runners" that you say are tory, support that with their voting do they ?
I'd say they are more likely to be Lib's or Labour supporters. but just guessing like you are [Post edited 20 Apr 2017 8:58]
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| General Election? on 08:55 - Apr 20 with 1738 views | essextaxiboy |
| General Election? on 08:46 - Apr 20 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Ok I used a wide tar brush I've not asked everyone in the world which party they support, I guess you must have to know if they are tories ? playing
I'll say it this way
On the whole, any person I have spoken to that has strong tory alliances has been selfish arrogant, uncaring of others or society. much like most of those that are remoanes living in London who did not give a shite about the rest of the country or Sturgeon with her one policy agenda.
Look how the tories want to cut and are cutting disability allowances, these "charity workers , hospice volunteer , surgeon, doctor, social worker, nurse Rangers community trust worker , marathon charity runners" that you say are tory, support that with their voting do they ?
I'd say they are more likely to be Lib's or Labour supporters. but just guessing like you are [Post edited 20 Apr 2017 8:58]
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and the foreign aid budget ?
Which while I have no problem with the amount is not spent lproperly IMO | | | |
| General Election? on 09:03 - Apr 20 with 1725 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| General Election? on 08:55 - Apr 20 by essextaxiboy |
and the foreign aid budget ?
Which while I have no problem with the amount is not spent lproperly IMO |
May planing on cutting it by 7% ?
There is one no matter who is in government it's not just a tory thing
In Fact the talk is she wants to end it altogether and spend it on defence. [Post edited 20 Apr 2017 9:18]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:12 - Apr 20 with 1720 views | Hunterhoop |
| General Election? on 07:03 - Apr 20 by essextaxiboy |
Why have the Torys carried it on while in Government alone and pledged to honour it until 2020 .Why didnt they stop it in 2015 ? |
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