| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? 23:08 - Feb 19 with 44520 views | GloryHunter |
I was 22 in 1975, and I voted "No". This was based on my political heroes Michael Foot and Tony Benn warning against the dangers of entering the EU. After that, I softened my opposition somewhat. I like the fact that I can now cross most European borders without being searched and showing my passport, and I have since acquired a German wife, who is free to live and work in the UK (although she is not allowed to vote here, despite having paid UK taxes for 25 years). But, to be honest, I am thinking of voting "Out". What do other posters on here think? |  | | |  |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 20:34 - Feb 20 with 2521 views | Dorse |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 16:19 - Feb 20 by essextaxiboy |
I wouldnt have the front to argue any of your points . I just think he is right on this issue. |
He might well be. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 20:38 - Feb 20 with 2503 views | essextaxiboy |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 19:34 - Feb 20 by Discodroids |
after six years of blaming the EU for her failure to deport terrorists, criminals and hate-preachers Theresa May is campaigning to remain. Incompetent fcking self serving bearded hag.
The EU are useful to the likes of Cameron and Corbyn insofar as they provide a lightning-rod to deflect from our home-grown politicians incompetence.
raze them to the ground. |
She thinks she will be out of the race for Leader if she backs the wrong horse. Self Serving is right. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 20:41 - Feb 20 with 2490 views | essextaxiboy |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 20:34 - Feb 20 by Dorse |
He might well be. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. |
OOer . I was going to post that and decided not to But it crossed my mind that you might say it in your reply . Im fcking arguing with meself now ... | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 20:45 - Feb 20 with 2495 views | QPRDave |
We got "high speed " broadband too jigs, thinking about it.
Not trying to be awkward but most feel it's more a brisk jog, but I see your point.
Ours was probably EU money too I'm guessing |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 20:51 - Feb 20 with 2467 views | essextaxiboy |
If I am reading that right the EU contributed 8mil to a project of 70mil . Less than half of the UK Governments contribution of 17 Mil .
Am I missing something ?
"The Government has set aside some £850m to roll out high-speed and superfast broadband to areas which private firms such as BT and Virgin are unlikely to reach with their own networks." YorkshirePost 2012
[Post edited 20 Feb 2016 20:54]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 21:34 - Feb 20 with 2432 views | Aitch |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 16:40 - Feb 20 by essextaxiboy |
We wont stand alone , we are a part of the Commonwealth The G7 , Nato , United Nations and the , USA "special relationship" . We have the 5th largest economy in the World . Thats all without any trade agreements we sign .
We will still be part of Europe , just not in the EU .
Apart from that we import plenty from the EU Its in their interest to trade with us |
Add to that we can retake our seat on the WTO (the EU won't let us currently) and trade with the EU under the trade agreements already in place with the WTO.
As German companies own the likes of Bentley, Mini, etc you'd expect them to be lobbying Merkel not to have tariffs on the sale of them in the EU. Likewise the German owned BMW, Audi, Mercedes, VW, Skoda and Seat won't want tariffs imposed on their biggest customer.
But bottom line is we're Britain FFS. Fifth largest economy in the world. We've been at the vanguard of democracy, industry, justice, etc and still have plenty of respect and goodwill around the globe. We're selling ourselves short, to say the least, if we're content to be just a number in the EU club letting the likes of Belgium dictate to us. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 21:57 - Feb 20 with 2398 views | essextaxiboy |
Last one from me today.
Gove(I know I know) said this and it sums it up for me
“We are the world’s fifth largest economy, with the best armed forces of any nation, more Nobel prizes than any European country and more world-leading universities than any European country.
“Our economy is more dynamic than the Eurozone, we have the most attractive capital city on the globe, the greatest ‘soft power’ and global influence of any state, and a leadership role in Nato and the UN. Are we really too small, too weak and too powerless to make a success of self-rule?”
No mention of immigration, just personal responsibility and aspiration. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 21:59]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 22:17 - Feb 20 with 2378 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I'll await to see if 'Even closer union' opt-out is put in stone (so to speak).
Anything about not bailing out the EURO again?
I wonder what happened to all those people saying we had to join the EURO or disaster... I see some have surfaced recently Branson for a start. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 22:19 - Feb 20 with 2369 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 21:57 - Feb 20 by essextaxiboy |
Last one from me today.
Gove(I know I know) said this and it sums it up for me
“We are the world’s fifth largest economy, with the best armed forces of any nation, more Nobel prizes than any European country and more world-leading universities than any European country.
“Our economy is more dynamic than the Eurozone, we have the most attractive capital city on the globe, the greatest ‘soft power’ and global influence of any state, and a leadership role in Nato and the UN. Are we really too small, too weak and too powerless to make a success of self-rule?”
No mention of immigration, just personal responsibility and aspiration. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 21:59]
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All that, and yet we still have human beings using food banks, and a life expectancy of 72 (same as Bangladesh) in some of our cities. All that stuff you mentioned is great, but doesn't put food on the table for a lot of us.
Of all the issues facing the typical QPR fan ( white working / lower middle class males) wether we are in the EU should be far down the list.
For my tuppence worth, i'm a reluctant stay voter. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 22:26]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 22:43 - Feb 20 with 2346 views | Westy75 |
Based purely on the posters on here going for out, I'll go for In. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:16 - Feb 21 with 2235 views | derbyhoop |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 19:55 - Feb 20 by QPRDave |
Surely the last paragraph is missing the point that we can and will negotiate a free trade deal.. |
Probably. But on what terms? And how long will it take (see my comments re Greenland)?
Can we really cope with the uncertainty while we try to re-establish a position we haven't had for 40 years.
I think Brexit is a real possibility, but it is very high risk. I haven't yet found anybody from the Out campaign that can paint a picture of what the UK would be like outside. Lots of hopes that we can do deals (with irate ex partners) and that nothing will change, in trade terms.
I guess my take differs from many on here because I did take advantage of freedom of movement to go and work in other EU countries; I spent 6 months living in France and speak enough french to gain an understanding of how we are viewed. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:20 - Feb 21 with 2230 views | timcocking |
The world will continue to be run shambolically either way... |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:29 - Feb 21 with 2224 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:16 - Feb 21 by derbyhoop |
Probably. But on what terms? And how long will it take (see my comments re Greenland)?
Can we really cope with the uncertainty while we try to re-establish a position we haven't had for 40 years.
I think Brexit is a real possibility, but it is very high risk. I haven't yet found anybody from the Out campaign that can paint a picture of what the UK would be like outside. Lots of hopes that we can do deals (with irate ex partners) and that nothing will change, in trade terms.
I guess my take differs from many on here because I did take advantage of freedom of movement to go and work in other EU countries; I spent 6 months living in France and speak enough french to gain an understanding of how we are viewed. |
We'd have the same trading conditions as non-EU European countries, surely i.e. Free trade. I don't see why it would take so long to be put in place and I'm guessing if we vote out, it won't be an instant move. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:38 - Feb 21 with 2216 views | ElHoop |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:16 - Feb 21 by derbyhoop |
Probably. But on what terms? And how long will it take (see my comments re Greenland)?
Can we really cope with the uncertainty while we try to re-establish a position we haven't had for 40 years.
I think Brexit is a real possibility, but it is very high risk. I haven't yet found anybody from the Out campaign that can paint a picture of what the UK would be like outside. Lots of hopes that we can do deals (with irate ex partners) and that nothing will change, in trade terms.
I guess my take differs from many on here because I did take advantage of freedom of movement to go and work in other EU countries; I spent 6 months living in France and speak enough french to gain an understanding of how we are viewed. |
'I think Brexit is a real possibility, but it is very high risk. I haven't yet found anybody from the Out campaign that can paint a picture of what the UK would be like outside.'
The official projections say that if net migration continued at the rate of 265000 per annum for the next 25 years then our population would grow by 16 million as a result. Are you saying THAT is not risky? At the moment there is no immigration policy because we are not allowed to have one.
So it's a risk of an unknown population increase against a risk of an unknown degree of economic hardship. You have to decide which is the greater risk or which risk concerns or affects you the most. But you can't knock other people because they don't see it like you - it's all about unknowns and different angles on those unknowns. There's no right answer as such. But I think that leaving or at least threatening to leave might lead to both risks being reduced. Staying or threatening to stay doesn't seem to me to be likely to get you anywhere other than where we are already. [Post edited 21 Feb 2016 9:42]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:14 - Feb 21 with 2188 views | RangersDave |
I think you will find that with 55m being paid to Europe every day, Britain as a whole actually paid for high speed internet to every house in North Yorkshire!
Living ooooop north in spouse land, I can see, and do see the north getting slowly more prosperous.
Manchester truly is a powerhouse right now, Liverpool looks better each year, Leeds is apparently getting better, even if I'm glad to say their team isn't (scum).
Leaving the EU will give us back the ultimate power, and that is to control our own destiny, not have to ask Europe 'is that alright'?
Only certain big businesses want us to stay...... Those that want to get richer off cheap labor etc. and beardy Branson can go and fcuk himself for that.
Britain will not go down the plug hole if we leave. It will leave us more powerful in Europe, and in fact the world.
'Made in Britain' again has a cashe that has been missing for so long. Rolls Royce, made in Munster doesn't have as good a ring to it as Great Britain.
Airbus can't just close Chester, Bae Warton won't shut because Europe takes the hump.
We will just be independent again, and I guarantee you trade deals will not take any time what so ever to put in place once we vote to leave. In fact they will be drawn up and agreed before the vote "just in case'.
Mark my words, we will not suffer by losing. What we will gain is net across the board.
Camerooooooooon says we are more secure being in Europe. Seems to me Europe makes us more insecure. Both in freedom of movement and rules.
We can defend ourselves, our borders, our children, our families, our workers, from the state of Europe. We shall fight them on the beaches ( sorry , just lit up a big cigar there).
To stay in merely acquiesces to an all for 1 and one for all system that will never EVER work.
In a Europe designed for equality and fairness, are Italians going to put up with lower wages than Germans? Will a can of Coke become the same price in holland as in Greece? Will a Mercedes Benz cost the same in Germany as in the UK? Nah, to think that and of this will happen ( when it's Europe's stated aim to have economic parity etc) is a fool.
What gets me is that people think having a single currency in Europe is great as it aids business and shopping etc, however every business and shipper still has to work out how much things are costing across Europe if they move from one country to another because of price disparity. Mmmmmm a bit like a mental exchange rate I suppose.
The big money men and business men will keep the disparity as they are just interested in the money, not the disparity changing to equality.
Laws for all? Made by one central office.....sparks of a police state where everyone is equal, and we know how that all ended the last time out over this side of the world.
Out is the only place to be and those that can't see we will be better off, even if it's just to the tune of our security, our laws and of course the 55m a day (plus money provided to look after families abroad of migrant workers in the uk) are in my opinion, seriously deluded.
Except if your a Rangers fan where, as general melchet said 'your alright by me and welcome to marry my sister!' |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:15 - Feb 21 with 2188 views | QPR_John |
Is this not all academic, we will not be allowed to leave regardless of the vote. Not because we are special or that the EU needs us but because the EU bureaucracy want to keep their gravy train on the rails. It is the act of leaving that frightens them, If we left there would be many ordinary people in other EU countries thinking why not us. [Post edited 21 Feb 2016 10:16]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:01 - Feb 21 with 2125 views | Discodroids |
I think whats needed here Clive, and i do hope you appreciate my candour, would be internment in special camps for us E.u Leavers.
After her Excellent performance on Question Time last week , Pro Euro gap toothed ebony babe and ex ITV 2 'Wags Boutique' presenter , June Sarpong could re educate the populous with her teachings.
This will encourage the correct form of political thought, it is only when we all agree, say the same things and think correctly will there be progress, and a common purpose progressiveness in its purest absolute form, can be attained. |  |
| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:06 - Feb 21 with 2154 views | AgedR |
I think the economic consequence of brexit is probably largely neutral. It would, however, undoubtedly produce a constitutional crisis, with Scotland having legitimate grounds to leave the UK.
I have huge reservations about the sovereignty of the UK in the EU (from an old fashioned lefty 'out' perspective), but, given that only around 50% of us bother to vote, clearly a significant minority couldn't give a toss who dictates their law.
As has been said, the EU in its current form is a capitalist cartel, but antithetically, it has acted as an effective block to the attempts of successive UK governments to reduce workforce rights.
I'm a internationalist and intergrationist and, taken in the context of a history of Europe that has basically been trying to kill each other for hundreds of years, the EU is undoubtedly a success story.
I would also be wary of exiting a club that acts as an effective opposition to US imperialism and extreme ideologies both within Europe and in the wider world.
I'm not going to mention the immigration issue as I find the whole debate grotesque and desperately depressing.
Overall the EU has a huge amount wrong with it on a fundamental level and there are very valid reasons to exit. However, an exit would also represent a failure of hope in the principle of collectivism, which doesn't sit easy with me philosophical.
In summary...still not sure. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:42 - Feb 21 with 2118 views | derbyhoop |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:38 - Feb 21 by ElHoop |
'I think Brexit is a real possibility, but it is very high risk. I haven't yet found anybody from the Out campaign that can paint a picture of what the UK would be like outside.'
The official projections say that if net migration continued at the rate of 265000 per annum for the next 25 years then our population would grow by 16 million as a result. Are you saying THAT is not risky? At the moment there is no immigration policy because we are not allowed to have one.
So it's a risk of an unknown population increase against a risk of an unknown degree of economic hardship. You have to decide which is the greater risk or which risk concerns or affects you the most. But you can't knock other people because they don't see it like you - it's all about unknowns and different angles on those unknowns. There's no right answer as such. But I think that leaving or at least threatening to leave might lead to both risks being reduced. Staying or threatening to stay doesn't seem to me to be likely to get you anywhere other than where we are already. [Post edited 21 Feb 2016 9:42]
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IF net migration continued at that rate, then it would lead to fundamental and rapid changes in the way of life in the UK. However, should the Syrian crisis be resolved OR everybody except Assad has fled the region, immigration should fall markedly.
And, if that is your main issue, why don't you ask about the 300,000 migrants from outside the EU last year?
Incidentally, I don't think anybody has a clear idea of how things will change over the next 10 years, although remaining in the EU, IMHO, Iis far less risky. With all its faults. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:53 - Feb 21 with 2102 views | HollowayRanger |
Just wait till turkey joins the eu
the river of migration will become a flood then and a totally open door from middle east |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 12:14 - Feb 21 with 2070 views | HendonHoop |
I was thinking that an Out Vote would then be perfect for Ms Sturgeon and the good folk of Scotland to then push for a second vote on Independence from the UK. So I may vote to stay in just to see how amusing it would then all be as the the next steps taken north of the border. | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 12:31 - Feb 21 with 3099 views | QPRDave |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:16 - Feb 21 by derbyhoop |
Probably. But on what terms? And how long will it take (see my comments re Greenland)?
Can we really cope with the uncertainty while we try to re-establish a position we haven't had for 40 years.
I think Brexit is a real possibility, but it is very high risk. I haven't yet found anybody from the Out campaign that can paint a picture of what the UK would be like outside. Lots of hopes that we can do deals (with irate ex partners) and that nothing will change, in trade terms.
I guess my take differs from many on here because I did take advantage of freedom of movement to go and work in other EU countries; I spent 6 months living in France and speak enough french to gain an understanding of how we are viewed. |
"I guess my take differs from many on here because I did take advantage of freedom of movement to go and work in other EU countries; I spent 6 months living in France and speak enough french to gain an understanding of how we are viewed."
Yeah I see where you're coming from derby. | | | |
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