| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 15:48 - Sep 30 with 1845 views | daveB |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 14:49 - Sep 30 by NW10Hoop |
probably naive on my part. But that squad should (and most likely will) cruise to a top 10 finish regardless of who is managing. Top 10 can not be the target with a keeper that has broken back into the England squad, Charlie Austin, Matt Phillips, Sandro, Leroy Fer and a couple of players who seemed to play a key role in Watford's promotion.
That's like telling me I don't have to start work until lunchtime. [Post edited 30 Sep 2015 15:17]
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That's one of a million problems at the club though, we see these big names and assume they'll be good enough to get us up rather than build an actual team. Big names who deliver next to nothing under multiple managers.
Green is a liability at the moment, Phillips has gone back to the player he was under Redknapp, I've not seen Sandro or Fer play decent back to back games in over a year for us, both players with talent but have had far more poor than good games for us. Fer is one of those players not strong enough to play in the middle and too lazy to play out wide.
Austin is of course brilliant but he can't do it all on his own. Looking at teams in this division I'd put us down to finish around 8th/9th which will be a decent season if we can offload more of the big earners in January. |  | |  |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 15:49 - Sep 30 with 1841 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 14:24 - Sep 30 by bosh67 |
Much as I love Les we can only gel if we have a clear style of play. We don't. |
I think we do - we're just not doing it often enough.
When we press higher, when the wide players get up and down and then in the box when their team mate has the ball on the opposite flank, when we seqqueze the space in the middle and get the ball down and play with the top 4, we have a system, and an effective one. Trouble is, we haven't seen it done properly on enough occasions!
Worked v Hull, was good for the majority of the game v Rotherham, 2nd half v Blackburn, at Wolves etc.
When we play like that we look better defensively and offensively, but it does require high energy and people doing their jobs properly. |  |
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 15:59 - Sep 30 with 1819 views | Rangersw12 |
Bloody Allerdyce we have just got rid of his Southern equivalent FFS
Ramsey , Les etc are trying to change the ethos of the club where by players came here and took the pss and didn't have to work for their money.
We have had years and years of players turning up with good reputations and then being shite for us Hoilett is a prime example got given a massive wage and can't be bothered anymore
In the summer we signed younger players who see the club as a step up along with some experienced players which was a massive change of tact from already "proven" stars who failed with us before
Getting the attitude of the club to change is going to take time and just because we have had a couple of bad results we should just changed everything and appoint someone like Allerdyce
People should of realised this wasn't going to be a walk in the park and sometimes you have to take a step back to go forward
For me if we sack Ramsey and get Allerdyce or the Leicester idiot we might have short term success but the problems at the club will still be there and I really think this is our last chance to sort the club out
Unfortunately our fans want instant success and don't seem to have the patience for anything anymore |  | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:07 - Sep 30 with 1807 views | Vish |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 15:59 - Sep 30 by Rangersw12 |
Bloody Allerdyce we have just got rid of his Southern equivalent FFS
Ramsey , Les etc are trying to change the ethos of the club where by players came here and took the pss and didn't have to work for their money.
We have had years and years of players turning up with good reputations and then being shite for us Hoilett is a prime example got given a massive wage and can't be bothered anymore
In the summer we signed younger players who see the club as a step up along with some experienced players which was a massive change of tact from already "proven" stars who failed with us before
Getting the attitude of the club to change is going to take time and just because we have had a couple of bad results we should just changed everything and appoint someone like Allerdyce
People should of realised this wasn't going to be a walk in the park and sometimes you have to take a step back to go forward
For me if we sack Ramsey and get Allerdyce or the Leicester idiot we might have short term success but the problems at the club will still be there and I really think this is our last chance to sort the club out
Unfortunately our fans want instant success and don't seem to have the patience for anything anymore |
I think a lot of people agree with this- that we're building a new ethos.
However so many things have been going wrong from a managerial perspective - fans will start to question Ramsey's ability to manage the team. The tactics, subs and performance at Fulham was the tipping point for a lot of people. It was so wrong, Ramsay has a lot of work to turn that around. | | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:09 - Sep 30 with 1801 views | NW10Hoop |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 15:25 - Sep 30 by Northernr |
I'm not sure I buy this "sam allardyce is who you want if you want a stable club over a period of time". Allardyce is a decent manager but his club's consistently die on their ars once he's left.
Now that could be because he's an all conquering beast of a manager and nobody can ever possibly be better than him however much you spend on a replacement, or it could be that he signs his players, his favourites, for his style to get him a result this Saturday to keep his team up and keep him in a job. That's exactly what we were doing before that we wanted to go away from isn't it? The need to completely rip it up and start all over again whenever we sack the manager?
Either way, as I said after Friday's debacle, are we ever going to come around to the idea that the manager might not be the (only) problem here? |
Yup, I agree with this. I think we'd be in a fairly similar state to how Redknapp left us if Big Sam came and went. And all the while you'd know that he doesn't truly give a damn about the club he is managing. For him it could be us, or any other interchangeable club who has had a recent history of bouncing between the top two divisions.
That's one of a number of reasons I really want Chris Ramsey to make a good go of things here. I'm sure he knows he's lucky to have this job, to have Les as his DOF, and he has been given the chance to play a massive role in the rebuilding the structure and reputation of this decent little club. People have their views on the incompetence of the chairman, but he has generally been very supportive to all the appointments he has made, and even though he may have to operate within more sensible budgets, Chris Ramsey has a far better squad, CEO and DOF than many others in our league.- this is probably the biggest job he's going to have in his career.
If he gets it right he takes us up at some point. If he doesn't and he goes back to being an assistant elsewhere, I'm sure that isn't lost on him. So yes let's give the him and whole club a bit of time to make some errors, on the way to a more successful and settled existence. But we are still allowed to call the manager and players out when a performance is as poor as Friday was |  | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:14 - Sep 30 with 1791 views | Rangersw12 |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:07 - Sep 30 by Vish |
I think a lot of people agree with this- that we're building a new ethos.
However so many things have been going wrong from a managerial perspective - fans will start to question Ramsey's ability to manage the team. The tactics, subs and performance at Fulham was the tipping point for a lot of people. It was so wrong, Ramsay has a lot of work to turn that around. |
I agree Ramsey for 1 he isn't helping himself playing Karl Henry every bloody week but it's not a new thing we get done at Fulham
End of the day when things get tough at the club or if teams come at them we wilt and have done for years | | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:19 - Sep 30 with 1776 views | NW10Hoop |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 15:48 - Sep 30 by daveB |
That's one of a million problems at the club though, we see these big names and assume they'll be good enough to get us up rather than build an actual team. Big names who deliver next to nothing under multiple managers.
Green is a liability at the moment, Phillips has gone back to the player he was under Redknapp, I've not seen Sandro or Fer play decent back to back games in over a year for us, both players with talent but have had far more poor than good games for us. Fer is one of those players not strong enough to play in the middle and too lazy to play out wide.
Austin is of course brilliant but he can't do it all on his own. Looking at teams in this division I'd put us down to finish around 8th/9th which will be a decent season if we can offload more of the big earners in January. |
Yeah but are we really blaming Green, Perch, Ned and Phillips's (and others) loss of form on anyone or anything beyond the players themselves, the coaches, the manager and at a stretch the DOF?
The party line from players at all clubs going through management, infrastructure or ownership changes is always that they don't take it on to the training ground, or onto the pitch on matchday. Yet it seems like we always find a way of blaming being shlt at football to things at the club that players shouldn't worry their pretty little heads about.
Nothing about the infrastructure of the club can explain why Ned, Angella and Green were not at the races on Friday, or why Karl Henry wasn't hauled off at some point right? [Post edited 30 Sep 2015 16:25]
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:26 - Sep 30 with 1756 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
CR before the Fulham game " we want to get the points to get in the top 6 and be in the mix
CA, last week, anything less than top 6 will be a failure with this squad.
Various other players have said the same in interviews
It's bullcrap that it's the fans to higher expectations
LF just trying to cover his mate and his arse. |  |
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport (n/t) on 16:37 - Sep 30 with 1730 views | Dorse |
It's Ramses the Great for me. For all our collective moaning, the club is slowly changing, in my opinion, for the better. The players are decent and top 10 / top 6 is a good season when you consider we expected a very tough year.
[Post edited 30 Sep 2015 16:41]
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| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:46 - Sep 30 with 1700 views | JonDoeman |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 14:39 - Sep 30 by essextaxiboy |
The reason for my position is this .
I put the first relegation down to Hughes and the toxic dressing room and the last one down to Redknapp who took the cowards way out quitting with the last transfer window shut .
Ramsey and Ferdinand were put in place IMO in advance of Sherwood arriving , when he wanted too much (because he thought he was a shoe in ) I was happy that Ramsey took it on on . Who was we going to get with multi milion pound fines and conference football being talked about? I didnt expect too much , but I was surprised at how he seemed to be respected by the youth (who he gave chances to ) and the seasoned pros.Clement wouldnt take a chance on us , maybe no one else of note would .
So h e gets a clean sheet this season for me , he is in a league where he could reasonably be expected to succeed and its peaks and troughs (Fridays nights trough was hard to take) .
Since you mention colour , I have been taken aback a bit by the vitriol and abuse that I have heard Ramsey take from fans in the ground this season, it seems disproprtionate to the situation I STRESS NOT ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD .
It occurred to me that some people might see him in a different way to me for another reason and enjoyed a free shot with no comebacks .I WOULD STRESS AGAIN , NOT ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD .
I asked my youngest boy whos 20 on the way to the Forest game whether he felt it and he said no so maybe I am wrong.Its Just a personal view .
No manager has a divine right to keep his job no matter what , but i think 9 games in , not even October , 3 pts off the top 6 , talk of a sacking is harsh |
It was Les Ferdinand who mentioned colour, I mentioned his judgement in light of his views on that . And Sunderland managed to get a manager like Advocaat on a short term deal to the end of the season in March to try & succeed in keeping them up. I refuse to believe we couldn't have got someone better & gone down with less of a whimper. And I'm certain a proper manager would be doing better with this squad this season. He is just the latest in a long line of coaches that haven't got what it takes to be number one, that is what comes down to. [Post edited 30 Sep 2015 16:58]
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:47 - Sep 30 with 1697 views | Hooped_Pullie |
It's interesting that in Ned's 'we must do better' interview for the Offish this week, he didn't say ONE WORD about letting the manager down. In fact, he didn't mention him at all.
Pearson or Fat Sam, though ? No thanks.
What we need - separating out the philosophy from those currently entrusted with it - is a young, competent, truly smart manager to get the best out of what we have & keep on getting it. Gary Rowett has done a quite frankly astonishing job at Brum with no money and no resources save what (on paper) is a low-to-average quality squad of players.
If there were three-year managerial contracts being handed out in the summer by TF, here's a man who would have been worthy of one. Any comp to BCFC would have been money well spent. | | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:49 - Sep 30 with 1689 views | stevec |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 15:25 - Sep 30 by Northernr |
I'm not sure I buy this "sam allardyce is who you want if you want a stable club over a period of time". Allardyce is a decent manager but his club's consistently die on their ars once he's left.
Now that could be because he's an all conquering beast of a manager and nobody can ever possibly be better than him however much you spend on a replacement, or it could be that he signs his players, his favourites, for his style to get him a result this Saturday to keep his team up and keep him in a job. That's exactly what we were doing before that we wanted to go away from isn't it? The need to completely rip it up and start all over again whenever we sack the manager?
Either way, as I said after Friday's debacle, are we ever going to come around to the idea that the manager might not be the (only) problem here? |
But ultimately it is about getting promoted/keeping your team up, whatever the means. The spoils will only come if you think big.
West Ham are a prime example. First time they went down they went with a big profile name (Pardew) and by the skin of their teeth, invariably using seasoned pro's, got promoted via the play offs, a la Redknapp. When the wheels came off first time round predominantly due to financial issues, they got promoted using the same method again (via Allardyce and seasoned pro's). As such, it seems a pretty effective method.
Chances are, with the good fortune of the Olympic stadium falling into their laps, they'll be a top six team on a regular basis within a couple of years. Imagine if they'd gone with the philosophy we are adopting, finding themselves regrouping and evolving for x amount of years, do you seriously think they'd have got their hands on the Olympic stadium staggering about in the Championship?
You've got to grab the chance when you can. It's a nice idea waiting for your Under 18's to develop into your Under 21's to develop into your first team, whilst the first teamers keep the ball rolling withholding any desire to move onto better opportunities and spicing it up occasionally with the odd League One signing that has apparently slipped through everybody else's net, but the chances are you end up as a Leyton Orient moaning about how unfair the worlds been to them whilst somebody else has done a West Ham/Palace/Norwich, got up and then worried about how they are going to stay there.
Anyway, here's to the next 15 years. |  | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:52 - Sep 30 with 1680 views | DejR_vu |
Working on the premise that if you say something often enough people will start to believe it. How can you keep four of the best players in the division in Austin, Phillips, Fer, and Sandro and yet still have the same aspiration as when you were expecting to lose them? He appointed CR, he's feeling the pressure as well. | |
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:52 - Sep 30 with 1680 views | Hooped_Pullie |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:49 - Sep 30 by stevec |
But ultimately it is about getting promoted/keeping your team up, whatever the means. The spoils will only come if you think big.
West Ham are a prime example. First time they went down they went with a big profile name (Pardew) and by the skin of their teeth, invariably using seasoned pro's, got promoted via the play offs, a la Redknapp. When the wheels came off first time round predominantly due to financial issues, they got promoted using the same method again (via Allardyce and seasoned pro's). As such, it seems a pretty effective method.
Chances are, with the good fortune of the Olympic stadium falling into their laps, they'll be a top six team on a regular basis within a couple of years. Imagine if they'd gone with the philosophy we are adopting, finding themselves regrouping and evolving for x amount of years, do you seriously think they'd have got their hands on the Olympic stadium staggering about in the Championship?
You've got to grab the chance when you can. It's a nice idea waiting for your Under 18's to develop into your Under 21's to develop into your first team, whilst the first teamers keep the ball rolling withholding any desire to move onto better opportunities and spicing it up occasionally with the odd League One signing that has apparently slipped through everybody else's net, but the chances are you end up as a Leyton Orient moaning about how unfair the worlds been to them whilst somebody else has done a West Ham/Palace/Norwich, got up and then worried about how they are going to stay there.
Anyway, here's to the next 15 years. |
Well said, it's a valid point. | | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:55 - Sep 30 with 1671 views | Rangersw12 |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:49 - Sep 30 by stevec |
But ultimately it is about getting promoted/keeping your team up, whatever the means. The spoils will only come if you think big.
West Ham are a prime example. First time they went down they went with a big profile name (Pardew) and by the skin of their teeth, invariably using seasoned pro's, got promoted via the play offs, a la Redknapp. When the wheels came off first time round predominantly due to financial issues, they got promoted using the same method again (via Allardyce and seasoned pro's). As such, it seems a pretty effective method.
Chances are, with the good fortune of the Olympic stadium falling into their laps, they'll be a top six team on a regular basis within a couple of years. Imagine if they'd gone with the philosophy we are adopting, finding themselves regrouping and evolving for x amount of years, do you seriously think they'd have got their hands on the Olympic stadium staggering about in the Championship?
You've got to grab the chance when you can. It's a nice idea waiting for your Under 18's to develop into your Under 21's to develop into your first team, whilst the first teamers keep the ball rolling withholding any desire to move onto better opportunities and spicing it up occasionally with the odd League One signing that has apparently slipped through everybody else's net, but the chances are you end up as a Leyton Orient moaning about how unfair the worlds been to them whilst somebody else has done a West Ham/Palace/Norwich, got up and then worried about how they are going to stay there.
Anyway, here's to the next 15 years. |
West Ham didn't have a threat of FFP bearing down on them
If we spent loads in the summer like last time then the football league would of gone to town on us | | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:56 - Sep 30 with 1671 views | daveB |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:19 - Sep 30 by NW10Hoop |
Yeah but are we really blaming Green, Perch, Ned and Phillips's (and others) loss of form on anyone or anything beyond the players themselves, the coaches, the manager and at a stretch the DOF?
The party line from players at all clubs going through management, infrastructure or ownership changes is always that they don't take it on to the training ground, or onto the pitch on matchday. Yet it seems like we always find a way of blaming being shlt at football to things at the club that players shouldn't worry their pretty little heads about.
Nothing about the infrastructure of the club can explain why Ned, Angella and Green were not at the races on Friday, or why Karl Henry wasn't hauled off at some point right? [Post edited 30 Sep 2015 16:25]
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Players performance is down to themselves and not sure it matters what the tactics were on Friday night they just didn't work hard enough and for that they can only blame themselves. Players will always look for an excuse and usually get one.
I've no idea what should happen with Ramsey but if he goes these same players will still let us down when it matters | | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:00 - Sep 30 with 1661 views | daveB |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:49 - Sep 30 by stevec |
But ultimately it is about getting promoted/keeping your team up, whatever the means. The spoils will only come if you think big.
West Ham are a prime example. First time they went down they went with a big profile name (Pardew) and by the skin of their teeth, invariably using seasoned pro's, got promoted via the play offs, a la Redknapp. When the wheels came off first time round predominantly due to financial issues, they got promoted using the same method again (via Allardyce and seasoned pro's). As such, it seems a pretty effective method.
Chances are, with the good fortune of the Olympic stadium falling into their laps, they'll be a top six team on a regular basis within a couple of years. Imagine if they'd gone with the philosophy we are adopting, finding themselves regrouping and evolving for x amount of years, do you seriously think they'd have got their hands on the Olympic stadium staggering about in the Championship?
You've got to grab the chance when you can. It's a nice idea waiting for your Under 18's to develop into your Under 21's to develop into your first team, whilst the first teamers keep the ball rolling withholding any desire to move onto better opportunities and spicing it up occasionally with the odd League One signing that has apparently slipped through everybody else's net, but the chances are you end up as a Leyton Orient moaning about how unfair the worlds been to them whilst somebody else has done a West Ham/Palace/Norwich, got up and then worried about how they are going to stay there.
Anyway, here's to the next 15 years. |
All depends what you want from the club, I don't see the mad rush in getting promoted only to get relegated again, If we're desperate to get promoted then yes we should get rid of Ramsey and go for an Allardyce or Pearson and go back to moaning about lack of long term thinking.
As fans we'll never be happy, we've had more success in the last 5 years (2 promotions and a win at Wembley) than we have in decades and no one is happy | | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:02 - Sep 30 with 1647 views | essextaxiboy |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:46 - Sep 30 by JonDoeman |
It was Les Ferdinand who mentioned colour, I mentioned his judgement in light of his views on that . And Sunderland managed to get a manager like Advocaat on a short term deal to the end of the season in March to try & succeed in keeping them up. I refuse to believe we couldn't have got someone better & gone down with less of a whimper. And I'm certain a proper manager would be doing better with this squad this season. He is just the latest in a long line of coaches that haven't got what it takes to be number one, that is what comes down to. [Post edited 30 Sep 2015 16:58]
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Fair dos . I can understand why you would want to make that clear .
Ramsey win % in the Prem is slightly better than Advocaats . [Post edited 30 Sep 2015 17:10]
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:05 - Sep 30 with 1643 views | EastR |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:52 - Sep 30 by DejR_vu |
Working on the premise that if you say something often enough people will start to believe it. How can you keep four of the best players in the division in Austin, Phillips, Fer, and Sandro and yet still have the same aspiration as when you were expecting to lose them? He appointed CR, he's feeling the pressure as well. |
Spot on.
There is no way that season targets/ambitions pre transfer window closing and assuming these would go can be the same as post 1 Sept with them staying. | |
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:07 - Sep 30 with 1637 views | DejR_vu |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 13:05 - Sep 30 by Northernr |
Haven't those players cost about 400m in 18 months? |
Watford seemed to manage last year | |
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:07 - Sep 30 with 1636 views | stevec |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:55 - Sep 30 by Rangersw12 |
West Ham didn't have a threat of FFP bearing down on them
If we spent loads in the summer like last time then the football league would of gone to town on us |
I suspect the wage bill will result in a pretty hefty loss again this season, maybe the club are operating on a basis that a transfer embargo and staying in Championship is better than promotion and a humungus fine. That would explain a lot. | | | |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:09 - Sep 30 with 1632 views | NW10Hoop |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:56 - Sep 30 by daveB |
Players performance is down to themselves and not sure it matters what the tactics were on Friday night they just didn't work hard enough and for that they can only blame themselves. Players will always look for an excuse and usually get one.
I've no idea what should happen with Ramsey but if he goes these same players will still let us down when it matters |
Fair play. As I said in a previous post in the thread, I do think CR should be given a bit of time - when Chery and Luongo were firing earlier in the season I felt like I could see what CR was trying to achieve despite letting soft goals in, but that has tailed off a bit. It could just be that he ends up not being up to the job, and if that's the case then we don't need another root to branch restructuring of the club... I like the path the club is on, we just might need a new manager. [Post edited 30 Sep 2015 17:11]
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:12 - Sep 30 with 1624 views | JonDoeman |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 16:56 - Sep 30 by daveB |
Players performance is down to themselves and not sure it matters what the tactics were on Friday night they just didn't work hard enough and for that they can only blame themselves. Players will always look for an excuse and usually get one.
I've no idea what should happen with Ramsey but if he goes these same players will still let us down when it matters |
Need a manager they fear & respect , & then they'll up the work rate . | |
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:15 - Sep 30 with 1618 views | JonDoeman |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:07 - Sep 30 by DejR_vu |
Watford seemed to manage last year |
And this year . | |
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| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:17 - Sep 30 with 1607 views | daveB |
| Ferdinand from West London Sport on 17:12 - Sep 30 by JonDoeman |
Need a manager they fear & respect , & then they'll up the work rate . |
If they don't have the self respect to at least try in big games then I'm not sure a change of manager is going to help them | | | |
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