| Chairman's Statement 17:02 - Jan 5 with 45443 views | HullDale |
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| Chairman's Statement on 20:31 - Jan 8 with 4393 views | 442Dale |
| Chairman's Statement on 20:27 - Jan 8 by TVOS1907 |
Newcastle play Leicester in the Carabao Cup; it's Man U v Charlton (not Bobby). |
Would think there’s a good chance both games are near sellout crowds. |  |
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| Chairman's Statement on 21:09 - Jan 8 with 4251 views | D_Alien |
| Chairman's Statement on 20:27 - Jan 8 by TVOS1907 |
Newcastle play Leicester in the Carabao Cup; it's Man U v Charlton (not Bobby). |
Ah, cheers, the fixtures were flashed up on screen, just a quick glance conflated the two |  |
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| Chairman's Statement on 21:22 - Jan 8 with 4188 views | TVOS1907 |
| Chairman's Statement on 21:09 - Jan 8 by D_Alien |
Ah, cheers, the fixtures were flashed up on screen, just a quick glance conflated the two |
Too much Sunday imbibing? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Chairman's Statement on 21:24 - Jan 8 with 4184 views | D_Alien |
| Chairman's Statement on 21:22 - Jan 8 by TVOS1907 |
Too much Sunday imbibing? |
Saw it on MOTD last night, but correct diagnosis! | |
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| Chairman's Statement on 09:27 - Jan 9 with 3810 views | rkershaw |
| Chairman's Statement on 21:22 - Jan 8 by TVOS1907 |
Too much Sunday imbibing? |
I like SG's commitment to the cause....especially his new blue 'Dale' mohican.....see Youtube clip!! :) [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 9:27]
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| Chairman's Statement on 09:56 - Jan 9 with 3741 views | AtThePeake |
| Chairman's Statement on 07:10 - Jan 7 by hammerdale |
Well said, it's a disgrace that the Premier League has so much power in football, especially the so called top 6 and with the likes of Newcastle joining them, they will have even more power. Listen to Klopp saying he doesn't want FA Cup replays, forgetting that they are the bread and butter of lower league clubs, I can remember the days when Liverpool were a crap Second Division side, grateful for a bob or two. |
Still waiting for Klopp to speak out about the two extra Champions League group stage games Liverpool will have to play from 2024/2025 onwards. Something tells me we'll never hear him complain about those. |  |
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| Chairman's Statement on 11:46 - Jan 9 with 3595 views | D_Alien |
| Chairman's Statement on 09:56 - Jan 9 by AtThePeake |
Still waiting for Klopp to speak out about the two extra Champions League group stage games Liverpool will have to play from 2024/2025 onwards. Something tells me we'll never hear him complain about those. |
I'd imagine he'll be wary of speaking about something he might not be involved in... | |
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| Chairman's Statement on 13:27 - Jan 9 with 3392 views | rkershaw |
| Chairman's Statement on 09:56 - Jan 9 by AtThePeake |
Still waiting for Klopp to speak out about the two extra Champions League group stage games Liverpool will have to play from 2024/2025 onwards. Something tells me we'll never hear him complain about those. |
There is a £10k grant up for grabs with Greene King (Brewery) who seem really keen to support community based projects!! ;)....WHOOPS....wrong thread!! [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 13:30]
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| Chairman's Statement on 13:56 - Jan 9 with 3309 views | AtThePeake |
| Chairman's Statement on 11:46 - Jan 9 by D_Alien |
I'd imagine he'll be wary of speaking about something he might not be involved in... |
Good point. I suppose their poor form will be down to this upcoming Wolves replay rather the fact he's spent £65m on a dud centre forward. | |
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| Chairman's Statement on 14:07 - Jan 9 with 3285 views | DorkingDale |
| Chairman's Statement on 20:59 - Jan 5 by TVOS1907 |
Oldham aren't bottom, Scunthorpe are. There's five points between them. |
Well they'll be uplifted after giving Dorking a tonking in abysmal conditions on Saturday. | | | |
| Chairman's Statement on 14:37 - Jan 9 with 3208 views | DaleGatto |
| Chairman's Statement on 19:48 - Jan 8 by mikehunt |
I think you will find that the super league clubs will want their cake and eat it.
They won’t be able to stand not playing in the domestic competitions. Just watch them wangle it so they are allowed to enter in to cup comps at the quarter final stages. |
Maybe that would lead to a breakup of the leagues?
Can we see a day when the Premier L morphs into the "super league" and the remaining league reforms itself?
I am at a loss how football can move forward financially but it is grinding clubs like Dale into oblivion in it's current form.
Meaning if you want to stay on the merry-go-round, you gotta put more and more money in therefore taking bigger and bigger risks. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 14:38]
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| Chairman's Statement on 17:01 - Jan 9 with 2982 views | A_Newby |
| Chairman's Statement on 14:37 - Jan 9 by DaleGatto |
Maybe that would lead to a breakup of the leagues?
Can we see a day when the Premier L morphs into the "super league" and the remaining league reforms itself?
I am at a loss how football can move forward financially but it is grinding clubs like Dale into oblivion in it's current form.
Meaning if you want to stay on the merry-go-round, you gotta put more and more money in therefore taking bigger and bigger risks. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 14:38]
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Without any income from transfer deals or good cup runs the club makes a trading loss of around £1.5 million pounds a year.
The chairman said in his statement that the board feel that they need to move away from the “fan owned” model, inviting an outside “investor” in for the club to be sustainable in both the short and long term.
Looking at the two possible models suggested for the club to be “sustainable”.
FAN OWNED
Club remains “fan owned”.
Any trading losses made in a year not covered by funds provided by a cup run or player sales is recouped by repeated share issues.
This is then reliant on Dale fans having the commitment and funds to continue purchasing these shares every year. This is unlikely and also leaves no surplus funds for developing the club.
Most new share issues are generally to generate new capital funds for business development purposes and not really to be used as a source of revenue to cover ongoing costs.
PRIVATE INVESTOR
A private investor takes majority ownership / part ownership of the club.
This owner / investor then provides funds from their own capital to cover any annual trading losses and also money to develop the business, in our case by funding the building of a new training ground.
This training ground would cut the annual outgoing costs for team training facilities by around £500,000 per year and also bring in revenue of around £100,000 a year. Hopefully with new training facilities we could also attract some more better player prospects to our successful academy.
Even with this model, if in any season the team does not have a good cup run or we do not have any saleable football assets then the trading shortfall would be around a £900,000 which would have to be met by either the new owner or by another share issue.
This is the model that has resulted in many teams e.g. Bury going into administration and non-league but also the model that has resulted in some clubs e.g. Leicester City having great success. It depends largely on how deep the pockets of the private investor are and their continued interest in the club.
If we define sustainable for the club as not making a trading loss or making a trading surplus each year, then neither of these two models are really sustainable especially in the medium and long terms. To be truly sustainable we must either decrease costs or increase revenue. |  | | |
| Chairman's Statement on 17:07 - Jan 9 with 2961 views | A_Newby |
| Chairman's Statement on 17:01 - Jan 9 by A_Newby |
Without any income from transfer deals or good cup runs the club makes a trading loss of around £1.5 million pounds a year.
The chairman said in his statement that the board feel that they need to move away from the “fan owned” model, inviting an outside “investor” in for the club to be sustainable in both the short and long term.
Looking at the two possible models suggested for the club to be “sustainable”.
FAN OWNED
Club remains “fan owned”.
Any trading losses made in a year not covered by funds provided by a cup run or player sales is recouped by repeated share issues.
This is then reliant on Dale fans having the commitment and funds to continue purchasing these shares every year. This is unlikely and also leaves no surplus funds for developing the club.
Most new share issues are generally to generate new capital funds for business development purposes and not really to be used as a source of revenue to cover ongoing costs.
PRIVATE INVESTOR
A private investor takes majority ownership / part ownership of the club.
This owner / investor then provides funds from their own capital to cover any annual trading losses and also money to develop the business, in our case by funding the building of a new training ground.
This training ground would cut the annual outgoing costs for team training facilities by around £500,000 per year and also bring in revenue of around £100,000 a year. Hopefully with new training facilities we could also attract some more better player prospects to our successful academy.
Even with this model, if in any season the team does not have a good cup run or we do not have any saleable football assets then the trading shortfall would be around a £900,000 which would have to be met by either the new owner or by another share issue.
This is the model that has resulted in many teams e.g. Bury going into administration and non-league but also the model that has resulted in some clubs e.g. Leicester City having great success. It depends largely on how deep the pockets of the private investor are and their continued interest in the club.
If we define sustainable for the club as not making a trading loss or making a trading surplus each year, then neither of these two models are really sustainable especially in the medium and long terms. To be truly sustainable we must either decrease costs or increase revenue. |
Reducing staff costs.
At the Dale there is not much room left to cut staff costs apart from in the paying budget which would have a detrimental effect on the quality of football on the pitch.
In recent weeks there have been adverts at the Dale for posts at the club in either the community trust or in the academy. People have questioned why we are taking on these staff if we are struggling financially.
The answer is that these jobs are funded largely from ringfenced grants from the FA / EFL / Premier league. We have to have these people in place to keep our academy at category 3 status where we have players under the age of 17.
Look at the links below for funds provided for this.
Salford has been included as a comparison as they only have a category 4 academy with players aged 17+. Look at the difference in funds that Salford’s academy gets compared to the Dale.
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/25/3d83357e-d
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/23/1f9ec411-6
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/23/f419c60e-b
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/25/8193aab5-1
In summary the academy cannot be looked at a source of funds for the general use of the club. It can however be used as a source of zero cost homegrown players for the first team that we can later hopefully sell on for a fee.
Whatever the ownership model IMHO the only real way for the Dale to be sustainable and survive is for the club to increase its annual income by around £1.5million. | | | |
| Chairman's Statement on 17:28 - Jan 9 with 2918 views | James1980 |
| Chairman's Statement on 17:07 - Jan 9 by A_Newby |
Reducing staff costs.
At the Dale there is not much room left to cut staff costs apart from in the paying budget which would have a detrimental effect on the quality of football on the pitch.
In recent weeks there have been adverts at the Dale for posts at the club in either the community trust or in the academy. People have questioned why we are taking on these staff if we are struggling financially.
The answer is that these jobs are funded largely from ringfenced grants from the FA / EFL / Premier league. We have to have these people in place to keep our academy at category 3 status where we have players under the age of 17.
Look at the links below for funds provided for this.
Salford has been included as a comparison as they only have a category 4 academy with players aged 17+. Look at the difference in funds that Salford’s academy gets compared to the Dale.
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/25/3d83357e-d
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/23/1f9ec411-6
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/23/f419c60e-b
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/25/8193aab5-1
In summary the academy cannot be looked at a source of funds for the general use of the club. It can however be used as a source of zero cost homegrown players for the first team that we can later hopefully sell on for a fee.
Whatever the ownership model IMHO the only real way for the Dale to be sustainable and survive is for the club to increase its annual income by around £1.5million. |
According to ONS population of Rochdale is over 220,000 £1.5 million is about £7 pound each. | |
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| Chairman's Statement on 17:43 - Jan 9 with 2869 views | 49thseason |
We need to figure out how to raise another £1m a year from off field activities simply to break even even with savings on training and academy pitches. A new lottery based on the old Gold Bond model could raise maybe £500k given time and some seed money leaving another £500k from room rentals, weddings, funerals, birthday parties, bars, hospitality, conferences, car boots, farmers markets, comedy nights, Christmas parties, gigs, and anything else anyone can think of. Obviously the occasional player sale will help , but if we can get into a position where we can sell on our terms, not because we have to, so much the better. Add in the occasional decent cup tie and the picture gets rosier. Especially if you have a backer wih deep enough pockets to get us through these precarious times. |  | | |
| Chairman's Statement on 18:44 - Jan 9 with 2721 views | 442Dale |
| Chairman's Statement on 17:07 - Jan 9 by A_Newby |
Reducing staff costs.
At the Dale there is not much room left to cut staff costs apart from in the paying budget which would have a detrimental effect on the quality of football on the pitch.
In recent weeks there have been adverts at the Dale for posts at the club in either the community trust or in the academy. People have questioned why we are taking on these staff if we are struggling financially.
The answer is that these jobs are funded largely from ringfenced grants from the FA / EFL / Premier league. We have to have these people in place to keep our academy at category 3 status where we have players under the age of 17.
Look at the links below for funds provided for this.
Salford has been included as a comparison as they only have a category 4 academy with players aged 17+. Look at the difference in funds that Salford’s academy gets compared to the Dale.
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/25/3d83357e-d
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/23/1f9ec411-6
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/23/f419c60e-b
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/25/8193aab5-1
In summary the academy cannot be looked at a source of funds for the general use of the club. It can however be used as a source of zero cost homegrown players for the first team that we can later hopefully sell on for a fee.
Whatever the ownership model IMHO the only real way for the Dale to be sustainable and survive is for the club to increase its annual income by around £1.5million. |
There was one post I think about why the club were taking on staff on the community side, this was quickly addressed by other fans.
Putting aside the switch from ‘fan owned’, you’re right about looking at decreasing costs and increasing revenue. The former falls under the club operating within its means and developing a model to support that. We had one that worked and for a variety of reasons we lost sight of it.
Increasing revenue has been a failing of every regime for the last couple of decades. There doesn’t need to be a breakdown of facts and figures to say that not advertising what’s in the shop on a regular basis and not even trialling a cash turnstile are perfect examples of however things may change, many stay the same.
Whatever happens, the biggest challenge is to try and introduce a culture that addresses the need to give reasons why we don’t do something, with a conscious effort to try and admit why we could and should. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 20:03]
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| Chairman's Statement on 19:51 - Jan 9 with 2554 views | 49thseason |
| Chairman's Statement on 18:44 - Jan 9 by 442Dale |
There was one post I think about why the club were taking on staff on the community side, this was quickly addressed by other fans.
Putting aside the switch from ‘fan owned’, you’re right about looking at decreasing costs and increasing revenue. The former falls under the club operating within its means and developing a model to support that. We had one that worked and for a variety of reasons we lost sight of it.
Increasing revenue has been a failing of every regime for the last couple of decades. There doesn’t need to be a breakdown of facts and figures to say that not advertising what’s in the shop on a regular basis and not even trialling a cash turnstile are perfect examples of however things may change, many stay the same.
Whatever happens, the biggest challenge is to try and introduce a culture that addresses the need to give reasons why we don’t do something, with a conscious effort to try and admit why we could and should. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 20:03]
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Cash turnstyle,.... do we need an actual turnstyle or something like a vending machine that you can put cash or card into and get a ticket for the match? Obviously railway stations have variations on this theme, so it cant be so hard, and presumeably they link into a central ticketing system? It could even be positioned inside the Ratcliffe! Equally why not just have some tickets for sale behind the bar if you want to test the demand?
I think you have a point about making excuses not to do things, its reasonable to test things first, but to rule them out without at least trying or presenting a case for not trying is just daft. | | | |
| Chairman's Statement on 19:57 - Jan 9 with 2544 views | blackdogblue |
| Chairman's Statement on 18:44 - Jan 9 by 442Dale |
There was one post I think about why the club were taking on staff on the community side, this was quickly addressed by other fans.
Putting aside the switch from ‘fan owned’, you’re right about looking at decreasing costs and increasing revenue. The former falls under the club operating within its means and developing a model to support that. We had one that worked and for a variety of reasons we lost sight of it.
Increasing revenue has been a failing of every regime for the last couple of decades. There doesn’t need to be a breakdown of facts and figures to say that not advertising what’s in the shop on a regular basis and not even trialling a cash turnstile are perfect examples of however things may change, many stay the same.
Whatever happens, the biggest challenge is to try and introduce a culture that addresses the need to give reasons why we don’t do something, with a conscious effort to try and admit why we could and should. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 20:03]
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Yep.. Guilty…. & apologise if not before if I did not do on the thread
But I will add, as much as the Chairman did mention social media & forums. We can suggest fund raising ideas all day / everyday but is it falling on very deaf ears? [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 20:03]
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| Chairman's Statement (n/t) on 21:47 - Jan 9 with 2277 views | D_Alien |
That's surely something our BoD would already know about? | |
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| Chairman's Statement (n/t) on 22:01 - Jan 9 with 2242 views | 442Dale |
| Chairman's Statement (n/t) on 21:47 - Jan 9 by D_Alien |
That's surely something our BoD would already know about? |
And something that would presumably be planned for, both previously under the ‘fan owned’ model and taking into account any possible future investor.
Also, utilising any differing scenarios planning, if it was of immediate concern, this would have been apparent at both the Trust and club AGMs in November.
It’s certainly a question that can be forwarded to the Trust via their rep on the board, might be worth giving that a go, A_Newby? [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 22:02]
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| Chairman's Statement (n/t) on 22:17 - Jan 9 with 2176 views | A_Newby |
| Chairman's Statement (n/t) on 22:01 - Jan 9 by 442Dale |
And something that would presumably be planned for, both previously under the ‘fan owned’ model and taking into account any possible future investor.
Also, utilising any differing scenarios planning, if it was of immediate concern, this would have been apparent at both the Trust and club AGMs in November.
It’s certainly a question that can be forwarded to the Trust via their rep on the board, might be worth giving that a go, A_Newby? [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 22:02]
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I did think of Oldham as they were relegated last season and then found this in the Oldham Chronicle from Kieran Maguire.
Podcaster Kieran Maguire, who specialises in the accountancy of association football and is the author of The Price of Football, says Latics will lose out on close to £1million a year.
"If you're relegated you get parachute payments for two seasons from the EFL but immediately you lose all of what's referred to as solidarity payments from the Premier League and they're worth around about £700,000 a year," he explained.
"Parachute payments you get £400,000 a year in League Two from EFL deals so I think that gets halved, so you go from about £1.1million to £200,000, and the National League is a really tough league.
https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/sport/20083248.cash-blow-oldham-athletic-relega
I was wondering though what specifically would happen to the academy and its funding.
I'll contact the trust tomorrow to ask if they would pass the questions onto the board. | | | |
| Chairman's Statement on 12:16 - Jan 10 with 1776 views | A_Newby |
| Chairman's Statement on 19:51 - Jan 9 by 49thseason |
Cash turnstyle,.... do we need an actual turnstyle or something like a vending machine that you can put cash or card into and get a ticket for the match? Obviously railway stations have variations on this theme, so it cant be so hard, and presumeably they link into a central ticketing system? It could even be positioned inside the Ratcliffe! Equally why not just have some tickets for sale behind the bar if you want to test the demand?
I think you have a point about making excuses not to do things, its reasonable to test things first, but to rule them out without at least trying or presenting a case for not trying is just daft. |
I like the idea of trialling selling tickets on the day in the Ratcliffe and Dale bars.
As far as I can see it has zero costs and could increase footfall in the bars where ticket purchasers could be tempted to also spend money in the bars. | | | |
| Chairman's Statement on 12:38 - Jan 10 with 1694 views | James1980 |
| Chairman's Statement on 12:16 - Jan 10 by A_Newby |
I like the idea of trialling selling tickets on the day in the Ratcliffe and Dale bars.
As far as I can see it has zero costs and could increase footfall in the bars where ticket purchasers could be tempted to also spend money in the bars. |
Now when people buy a ticket in the office for an individual match is a seat allocated or is it a case of sit in any unreserved seat? | |
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| Chairman's Statement on 13:06 - Jan 10 with 1576 views | A_Newby |
| Chairman's Statement on 12:38 - Jan 10 by James1980 |
Now when people buy a ticket in the office for an individual match is a seat allocated or is it a case of sit in any unreserved seat? |
It's allocated seating.
Some on the day ticket purchasers sit in their allocated seat but others move to any of the empty unreserved seats.
Having unallocated seating for league matches does not matter when you have half empty stands, as long as the seats reserved for season ticket holders are not usurped. | | | |
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