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There's something compelling about Greta Thunberg. When she speaks, people listen and whether or not you agree with her about the imminence of the climate problem, its more effective in raising awareness than the combined efforts of thousands of adults over the past couple of decades. Regardless of how it came about, if she didn't have that natural ability she'd simply be ignored
It's the same with Malala Yousafzai, although her cause (female education) was brought to prominence by very personal events and experience. But such a compelling speaker and it'll be interesting to see what she does in the future once her own education is completed
Going much further back, anyone who's read about the almost unbelievable feats of the teenage Joan of Arc in galvanising the French armies to overthrow their (English) oppressors can only shake their heads and wonder how it can come about that teenage girls - and it is mainly females - can create such impetus in difficult causes against entrenched positions. There's something incredibly life-affirming about this phenomenon which belies the negativity
It's equally as "f*cked up" that she was put in this position with her mental health history. Rightly or wrongly (mostly the latter), you open yourself up to all sorts of critcism when you get thrust into the public eye.
However, that isn't a consideration that was hers to make. The abuse she is receiving is unwarranted and should be directed towards those who did this to her
So can I ask what your solution would be to your first paragraph? You'd be in favour of silencing those with mental health issues from speaking publicly, lest their feelings be hurt?
This "thrust into the public eye" narrative is grimy and speaks to a collective denial that a teenage girl with Aspergers would have any agency in their own decisions. Have you heard her speak, or describe the conversations she's had with her parents on her advocacy? She's also been incredibly eloquent in acknowledging her own conditions, and more power to her.
It's incredible how the backlash against "sensitive millennials" and "safe spaces" from certain quarters suddenly reverses as soon as some politicians are made to feel a little uncomfortable. They'd love to see GT retreat to a safe space now.
It is pure and simply child abuse to use a disturbed girl in this manner, how anybody can ignore men as listed below who are immensely qualified in their respected fields and listen to a girl who has no qualifications therefore not qualified to speak and who knows nothing other than what she has been coached to believe is a collective madness such as displayed on this thread.
It is pure and simply child abuse to use a disturbed girl in this manner, how anybody can ignore men as listed below who are immensely qualified in their respected fields and listen to a girl who has no qualifications therefore not qualified to speak and who knows nothing other than what she has been coached to believe is a collective madness such as displayed on this thread.
Is there anything specific Dr. Lindzen has said that you'd like to articulate to us in your own words, rather than posting YouTube videos?
"Disturbed". What century are you living in? Greta Thunberg has Aspergers Syndrome, a condition primarily affecting social interaction rather than, say, understanding of scientific concepts. Again, by employing phrases like "to use a disturbed girl" you again imply that she has no agency in her decisions. Are you perhaps a little threatened?
Is there anything specific Dr. Lindzen has said that you'd like to articulate to us in your own words, rather than posting YouTube videos?
"Disturbed". What century are you living in? Greta Thunberg has Aspergers Syndrome, a condition primarily affecting social interaction rather than, say, understanding of scientific concepts. Again, by employing phrases like "to use a disturbed girl" you again imply that she has no agency in her decisions. Are you perhaps a little threatened?
What a strange request as if anything I say could add any weight to what Dr Lindzen has concluded or convince you that hasn't been said by Dr Lindzen. I live in the same century as you but thankfully I don't - metaphorically speaking - live in the same world as you and Greta Thunberg. The world I live in is not filled with doom and gloom I don't share you're apocalyptic world view and as for feeling threatened? Yes by fools who would sooner listen to Greta Thunberg who, irrespective of her condition, has no qualifications on the subject and is as it seems is not subject to challenge based on that she is a school girl with Asperger syndrome yet the same fools will ignorantly ignore Dr Lindzen a man who is eminent in his field and has had countless scientific papers published subject to peer review.
Seeing as you don't like my use of links or copy and paste you can ignore this taken from the autism.org.uk website...
How do people with Asperger syndrome see the world?
Some people with Asperger syndrome say the world feels overwhelming and this can cause them considerable anxiety.
What a strange request as if anything I say could add any weight to what Dr Lindzen has concluded or convince you that hasn't been said by Dr Lindzen. I live in the same century as you but thankfully I don't - metaphorically speaking - live in the same world as you and Greta Thunberg. The world I live in is not filled with doom and gloom I don't share you're apocalyptic world view and as for feeling threatened? Yes by fools who would sooner listen to Greta Thunberg who, irrespective of her condition, has no qualifications on the subject and is as it seems is not subject to challenge based on that she is a school girl with Asperger syndrome yet the same fools will ignorantly ignore Dr Lindzen a man who is eminent in his field and has had countless scientific papers published subject to peer review.
Seeing as you don't like my use of links or copy and paste you can ignore this taken from the autism.org.uk website...
How do people with Asperger syndrome see the world?
Some people with Asperger syndrome say the world feels overwhelming and this can cause them considerable anxiety.
You can rest assured that I’m more than familiar with Aspergers Syndrome, but I’m grateful for the link that you just googled - thank you. You’ll have presumably noted during your deep and varied research about the ability of those on the autism spectrum to process and retain factual data, as well as to identify “critical” data in a wider group? Clearly the anxiety was a dealbreaker for you though. Because of course, anxiety hasn’t plagued some of the world’s most respected leaders and thinkers in their fields, not to mention a fairly highly regarded British Prime Minister.
As an aside, if you yourself had a child on the autism spectrum, would you refer to them as “disturbed”? Please do answer.
Finally - is it really a “strange request” in an online discussion about climate change to be asked to provide some of your own input on the subject? Or does posting YouTube links count as debate in your eyes? I’ll repeat the request: Is there anything specific Dr. Lindzen has said that you'd like to articulate to us in your own words? If you have the cognitive skills necessary to decide that Greta Thunberg doesn’t know what she’s talking about, presumably you must believe that you do?
It is pure and simply child abuse to use a disturbed girl in this manner, how anybody can ignore men as listed below who are immensely qualified in their respected fields and listen to a girl who has no qualifications therefore not qualified to speak and who knows nothing other than what she has been coached to believe is a collective madness such as displayed on this thread.
So can I ask what your solution would be to your first paragraph? You'd be in favour of silencing those with mental health issues from speaking publicly, lest their feelings be hurt?
This "thrust into the public eye" narrative is grimy and speaks to a collective denial that a teenage girl with Aspergers would have any agency in their own decisions. Have you heard her speak, or describe the conversations she's had with her parents on her advocacy? She's also been incredibly eloquent in acknowledging her own conditions, and more power to her.
It's incredible how the backlash against "sensitive millennials" and "safe spaces" from certain quarters suddenly reverses as soon as some politicians are made to feel a little uncomfortable. They'd love to see GT retreat to a safe space now.
I would prefer if if you don't put words in my mouth. It's not just her mental health issues that have to be taken into account, it's her age (not necessarily her age now btw but when she started).
"But if the message is finally getting across, does it really matter how?" is a point of view that I see being put forward a lot. Which just shows how dispensable children are really and that's not even taking her mental health into account.
You talk about agency in her own decision making as though you believe she's doing this off her own back. And if she was, I believe that your points would be much more sailent. It's already been shown time and time again that she has little knowledge on the subject of climate change (and tbh who would at that age?) but this feeds into the narrative that she's just a pawn being used by those in power to get what they want.
Of course she speaks passionately. What child/young adult doesn't? GT is also likely being tirelessly coached by people who know what they're doing; that also won't hurt her chances.
The cynic in me suspects that they deliberately picked GT *because* she has mental health issues to marry up with this inclusivity drive that's going on at the moment. And shedding light on mental health is very important, so if a greater understanding of Asperger's and the like comes out of this then it can only be a good thing.
But I feel sorry for her. She's a kid and she's had far too much responsibility/pressure put on her shoulders from too young an age by people who should know better. This, coupled with her other difficulties looks like the perfect storm for some sort of breakdown later down the line. I sincerely hope I'm wrong
I would prefer if if you don't put words in my mouth. It's not just her mental health issues that have to be taken into account, it's her age (not necessarily her age now btw but when she started).
"But if the message is finally getting across, does it really matter how?" is a point of view that I see being put forward a lot. Which just shows how dispensable children are really and that's not even taking her mental health into account.
You talk about agency in her own decision making as though you believe she's doing this off her own back. And if she was, I believe that your points would be much more sailent. It's already been shown time and time again that she has little knowledge on the subject of climate change (and tbh who would at that age?) but this feeds into the narrative that she's just a pawn being used by those in power to get what they want.
Of course she speaks passionately. What child/young adult doesn't? GT is also likely being tirelessly coached by people who know what they're doing; that also won't hurt her chances.
The cynic in me suspects that they deliberately picked GT *because* she has mental health issues to marry up with this inclusivity drive that's going on at the moment. And shedding light on mental health is very important, so if a greater understanding of Asperger's and the like comes out of this then it can only be a good thing.
But I feel sorry for her. She's a kid and she's had far too much responsibility/pressure put on her shoulders from too young an age by people who should know better. This, coupled with her other difficulties looks like the perfect storm for some sort of breakdown later down the line. I sincerely hope I'm wrong
It's not just about "speaking passionately" though, is it, otherwise every teenager with an half-baked view on summat and a gob would be listened to
Without necessarily agreeing with her on some of her stances, she is entitled to express them and - irrespective of what you or other detractors think - people listen, and that leads to debate. That is something remarkable and represents a much more fundamental desire in people to seek clarity amid all the noise and contrary views including those in the scientific community with their alternative "facts" which are then extrapolated to draw very different conclusions
There's no question whatsoever she has enhanced the debate, so why is that a bad thing? On a personal level regarding her future mental health, it's a fair question. Is she any different in this respect than wannabes who put themselves in the spotlight (perhaps with parental prompting) in say, the pop world or other media-intensive industry? It's something they'll all have to learn to cope with, or not. Would you seek to deny them their agency? It's to be hoped those around GT will have some sense of her welfare; but please don't assume you have her best interests over and above those closest to her, that's not in your capacity to claim
It's not just about "speaking passionately" though, is it, otherwise every teenager with an half-baked view on summat and a gob would be listened to
Without necessarily agreeing with her on some of her stances, she is entitled to express them and - irrespective of what you or other detractors think - people listen, and that leads to debate. That is something remarkable and represents a much more fundamental desire in people to seek clarity amid all the noise and contrary views including those in the scientific community with their alternative "facts" which are then extrapolated to draw very different conclusions
There's no question whatsoever she has enhanced the debate, so why is that a bad thing? On a personal level regarding her future mental health, it's a fair question. Is she any different in this respect than wannabes who put themselves in the spotlight (perhaps with parental prompting) in say, the pop world or other media-intensive industry? It's something they'll all have to learn to cope with, or not. Would you seek to deny them their agency? It's to be hoped those around GT will have some sense of her welfare; but please don't assume you have her best interests over and above those closest to her, that's not in your capacity to claim
[Post edited 22 Oct 2019 11:37]
The subject is an emotive one, hence why people are listening. The difference between GT and other teenagers is the size of the platform that she has, not the passion she speaks with.
I didn't ever say she wasn't entitled to air her views or "express her stances" as you put it. I am simply questioning whether these are in fact *her* views. I would suggest that someone who purports to be as involved in the climate change as she does should at least have a more than basic understanding of climate change. However, it's been shown that she hasn't. More coaching needed?
You ask how she is different to wannabes putting themselves in the spotlight and I would suggest that the answer lies in the question. I honestly don't believe she has chosen to put herself there; that's actually my whole point.
I don't believe that I have her "best interests over and aboce those closest to her" either. I just feel sorry for her. No more, no less
The subject is an emotive one, hence why people are listening. The difference between GT and other teenagers is the size of the platform that she has, not the passion she speaks with.
I didn't ever say she wasn't entitled to air her views or "express her stances" as you put it. I am simply questioning whether these are in fact *her* views. I would suggest that someone who purports to be as involved in the climate change as she does should at least have a more than basic understanding of climate change. However, it's been shown that she hasn't. More coaching needed?
You ask how she is different to wannabes putting themselves in the spotlight and I would suggest that the answer lies in the question. I honestly don't believe she has chosen to put herself there; that's actually my whole point.
I don't believe that I have her "best interests over and aboce those closest to her" either. I just feel sorry for her. No more, no less
If you honestly don't believe she's acting under her own agency, perhaps with parental support and possibly prompting as any teenager might be expected to have, it raises a rather different question
That is, how do the actions of any individual become acts of free will; if indeed such a thing is possible or even able to be determined? And if so, at what age? And in terms of people with a recognised syndrome, how are we to determine the boundaries and specifics of each individual? Feeling sorry for her is actually condescending until you can answer the above questions, which philosophers and psychologists have grappled with for centuries. I eagerly await your definitive conclusions
I would prefer if if you don't put words in my mouth. It's not just her mental health issues that have to be taken into account, it's her age (not necessarily her age now btw but when she started).
"But if the message is finally getting across, does it really matter how?" is a point of view that I see being put forward a lot. Which just shows how dispensable children are really and that's not even taking her mental health into account.
You talk about agency in her own decision making as though you believe she's doing this off her own back. And if she was, I believe that your points would be much more sailent. It's already been shown time and time again that she has little knowledge on the subject of climate change (and tbh who would at that age?) but this feeds into the narrative that she's just a pawn being used by those in power to get what they want.
Of course she speaks passionately. What child/young adult doesn't? GT is also likely being tirelessly coached by people who know what they're doing; that also won't hurt her chances.
The cynic in me suspects that they deliberately picked GT *because* she has mental health issues to marry up with this inclusivity drive that's going on at the moment. And shedding light on mental health is very important, so if a greater understanding of Asperger's and the like comes out of this then it can only be a good thing.
But I feel sorry for her. She's a kid and she's had far too much responsibility/pressure put on her shoulders from too young an age by people who should know better. This, coupled with her other difficulties looks like the perfect storm for some sort of breakdown later down the line. I sincerely hope I'm wrong
I don't believe I put words into your mouth - I asked you a question. If I'd used a declarative sentence, I'd be putting words into your mouth. Don't play the victim - my question was a perfectly reasonable response to your following post, which is pretty clear:
It's equally as "f*cked up" that she was put in this position with her mental health history. Rightly or wrongly (mostly the latter), you open yourself up to all sorts of critcism when you get thrust into the public eye.
You continue to make unfounded claims - what evidence do you have that Greta Thunberg isn't taking this stance of her own volition, other than the fact that she's received support since making it? Does the receipt of support invalidate her agency? As an aside, I sponsored a teenager last week for doing a fun-run - does that now mean that I forced him into the act? Of course it doesn't. Does a young footballer being coached invalidate their ability? I assume you'll be withdrawing any support for Luke Matheson, or at the very least insisting he doesn't receive our support for as long as he receives coaching?
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