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Reply | The foul on Clucas early on
at 08:59 4 Feb 2018
He saw the linesmans flag and waved play on.Whether he thought the flag was for some other reason other than offside is incidental.Why have they got microphones .Why didn't he communicate? |
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Reply | The foul on Clucas early on
at 08:38 4 Feb 2018
There were doubts about their goal too for offside. Obviously MOTD didn't want to dwell too long on our bad luck.The second time they got the ball in the net was bizarre.
The decision by the ref to wave play on after the linesman had clearly signalled an offside was a disgrace.At least the linesman stuck by his guns. |
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Reply | Clucas likes his porn then?
at 11:03 1 Feb 2018
Just how stupid was it.
He has scored so few goals for us, to ruin those moments by making such a controversial gesture,and obviously knowing what it referred to , shows a remarkable lack of intelligence as much as anything else. |
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Reply | Sold down the river again.
at 22:29 31 Jan 2018
There is some significance in buying Ayew back.Although quite rightly we have spent the full fee costs,a large part of that money has been used to repay the Santander loans, rather than go directly to West Ham.
Cash flow wise..clever. [Post edited 31 Jan 2018 22:30]
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Reply | Cup replay ticket prices announced
at 19:57 27 Jan 2018
The protests about charges and the poor crowd at the last FA Cup replay against Wolves has obviously worried them. |
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Reply | Roque Mesa leaving
at 22:13 23 Jan 2018
Be honest, he was never given a proper chance. |
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Reply | JENKINS - Another master stroke ?
at 09:53 23 Jan 2018
The fact that Carlos has started so well with the same group of players shows how bad Clement was. If Jenkins gets credit for choosing Carlos, he should also be criticised for keeping Clement here for at least six matches too many, and that could be as significant a factor if we get relegated as choosing Carlos. |
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Reply | Protest in West
at 08:08 18 Jan 2018
The size of the crowd shows that nobody really cares anymore. |
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Reply | Share sale2007 (part two)
at 12:08 17 Jan 2018
Gosh, there are a lot of Morgan supporters here.
look al I am saying is that there is a vast difference in making secured loans to the club and putting money into equity.The transfer to equity was made by a shrewd business man at the right time.He did not put a lot of his wealth into equity originally and in my opinion cannot justify his acquisition of shares as being made to 'save' the club. |
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Reply | The 2007 share issue (part one)
at 09:49 17 Jan 2018
Everything that I have included is based on Company House Returns,Accounts and Trust minutes.I am fed up of hearing how the shareholders justify the huge profits from their shareholdings because they put money in to save the club.The 2007 share issue was a restricted issue at par and represented as good an investment at that time as anywhere you'll find in football. |
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Thread | Share sale2007 (part two)
at 09:29 17 Jan 2018
By the 30th November 2007 ,the club's fortunes had changed completely.They had moved to the Liberty on the 23rd July 2005 and in the 2007 season under Martinez were destined to win the first division and get promoted to the Championship.Crowds were flocking to the Liberty and the Club's financial prospects and position was completely different to the dark days when the first shares were acquired only four years previously.
The total shareholding of the club amounted to £488,500 and it was decided to double the amount by a new issue of shares which were recorded on th 30th November 2007..This was meant to introduce money into the successful club to enable it to continue with its unprecedented success.Unfortunately very little of the £471,500 worth of shares issued actually resulted in new investment into the club.
Morgan,together with Katzen and partner to a lesser extent, had been lending the club money.The loans had been lent over a period of years and had reached a total of £342,716. This may sound very generous but Morgan was a very rich man and he knew that by lending money in this way based on securities he was unlikely to lose any of it, whilst at the same time he was obtaining a power base.
Because the shares were offered at par(this meant that they were valued exactly the same as when the original shares were issued), they represented tremendous value.The Morgans at this point only owed 10% of shares previously issued, but persuaded the other shareholders to allow him to transfer his loan for shares on a £1 for £1 basis.
Suddenly the Trust became aware of what was happening, and realised that unless they virtually matched Morgan with additional investment, their shareholding percentage would decrease dramatically.Other shareholders also saw the dangers, including that of a possible takeover by Morgan, and it was agreed that no shareholder should hold more than twenty four per cent.It was also agreed that the Trust who only had £60,000 to invest should be given time to raise the further £40,000 that was needed to maintain their percentage share..By doing this the Trust created a situation for themselves which virtually stopped them being allowed to increase their shareholding in the future to the magical 25% plus, which would have prevented special resolutions to be made to water down their shares by new share issues.
The opportunity to purchase additional shares was restricted to existing shareholders, who all, with the exception of Mel Nurse and Van Zweden took full advantage to the extent that they were allowed, or their pockets allowed them to.It was at this point that Dineen acquired an extra 40,000 shares which would eventually make him £4m.
Shares acquired by the 30th November 2007 issue were as follows.
Jenkins £58,000
Dineen £40,000
Katzen and partner £88,500
Trust £60,000 (plus a further £40,000 on the 12th October 2009)
Davies £50,000
Morgans £175,000.
The beauty of the above as far as the Morgans were concerned was that they became the largest shareholderswith 23.5 % and all the additional shares were acquired through transfers of his existing loans.
The fact is that the club did not benefit cash flow wise from the whole of the issue as was the original intention.Of the £471,500 share value issued, only £128,784 was received in the end as a cash injection, as the whole of the remaining £342,716 was used for the repayment of Morgan and Katzen loans either directly or through the issue of shares.None of these loans were legally repayable at that time.
From this point onwards it would be fair to assume that all the shareholders knew that they had shares worth considerably more than their original cost or loan transfer value.
In November 2012 Nurse cashed in his £50,000 of shares, the club buying them directly from him for £400,000.With this transaction disappeared all hope of the Trust acquiring any more shares.There was one specific reason for this.All the shareholders would have known or been told, that the saleable value of the club, and therefore of their shares would have been considerably less if they were selling less than 75%.
From November 2007 everything changed.In my opinion Morgan should never have been allowed to increase his shareholding as he did and in the way that he did. From that point onwards Katzen, Morgan and Jenkins had the controlling interest between them
To suggest that the original directors received justifiable rewards for helping the club at its hour of need is simply not true , particularly in the case of Morgan and Dineen.
That they all agreed to sell in the way they did by excluding the Trust can never be justified.
They knew what they were doing from 2007 onwards.
The rewards they had were out of all proportion to their investments.It was not based on accounts at that time but based on player valuations.That was akin to asset stripping regardless of consequences.
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Thread | The 2007 share issue (part one)
at 06:15 17 Jan 2018
There have been many attempts to justify the original shareholders decision to sell their shares,and to understand how and why the Trust was not part of this sale.What seems to have been missed is the importance of the increase in issued shares in 2007.
It was at this point that I believe the relationship between the Trust and their fellow shareholders changed forever.
One of the major excuses for the sale on behalf of the original shareholders is that they invested their money when times were bad and deserved their rewards.
However, with a few exceptions , most of the original investments represented only part of their individual shareholdings,as substantial additional shares were acquired in 2007 when the club's financial position had improved dramatically.
Also it should always be remembered that the greatest 'investors' in 2002 were the creditors who accepted a write off in their debt of £1.5m to allow the club to continue in business, and shared only £85,000 as a result.
The first recorded meeting of the Trust took place in November 2001 with Kevin Johns as chairman, Mel Nurse in attendance, Nigel Hamer in charge of fundraising and Mal Pope There to give a song at the end.The meeting was basically to promote the start of the Trust with the idea that it should become a shareholder in the new Swansea City..By the following November the Trust was accumulating money, and a very generous donation of £10,000 had been received from a Gareth Keen.
By this time Leigh Dineen had got involved to the extent that he was voted Chairman.
The initial share issue as recorded in the Company Return of the 12th April 2003 showed that the new Swansea City had received investment income of £418,500 in return for shares.The full list of subscribers was as follows.
Trust £80,000
Mel Nurse £50,000
Huw Jenkins £67,000
Morgans £50,000
Van Zweden £50,000
Dineen £10,000
Katzen (and Crevoiserat) £111,500
Robert Davies, who was connected with the Ospreys purchased £50,000 of shares shortly afterwards (reported November 2003)
Whilst it should be accepted that all the above were risking their money at a time when Swansea were in dire straits.Relegation from the football league remained a threat until the defeat of Hull on the 3rd May 2003.
Of the above names Katzen and partner admitted that they were speculators.The rest however genuinely invested to save the club.The amounts however were not huge, and compared to the creditors losses were small in comparison.Also most were to immediately benefit from their investments either by gaining position at the club or through profitable future business transactions.
Morgans investment in particular was careful.A very wealthy man, £50,000 was a speck in the ocean for him.
The Trust therefore had invested more than any other shareholder with the exception of Katzen and partner.It was agreed that they should appoint a Trust representative to the Club Board.Their first big mistake was appointing Dineen.He not only had shares himself , by he was also made Vice Chairman of the club alongside Huw Jenkins Chairmanship.
At one time therefore he was the Trust Chairman,the Board representative and Vice Chairman of the football club.In addition he probably had the contract for supplying goods from his own company Bulk Vending Limited. This was conflict of interests at its very worst! Under his influence the Trust developed as a supporters organisation and not as a shareholders one..Even though by August 2004 the Trust had invested a further £20,000 to raise their investment to £100,000 which was a percentage holding of 20.5% no more shares were bought until 2007. At a time when the Trusts influence should have been at it's greatest they allowed the opportunity to strengthen their shareholding past the magic 25 % to pass them by..No shareholders agreement was made.The Trust could probably have written their own at this time and it would have been accepted.The major players were all singing off the same key-- moving things forward for the good of the club.
Although Dineen resigned as Trust Chairman on the 20th November 2003 he remained as the Trusts Board representative until 2006.Incidentaly Phil Sumbler did not join the Trust committee until 2004 ,but he became the Trust Chairman the following year, a position he held until very recently.
We now come to the very important happenings which changed the Trusts position completely.The events leading up to the issuing of further shares on the 30th November 2007.
(Part two to follow) |
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Reply | MAN CITY PULL PLUG ON ALEXIS SANCHEZ DEAL
at 06:29 16 Jan 2018
It's not going to be long before there will be a European league, and then a world league.
That time can't come quick enough for me, as then apart from three or four teams in this country football will return to some degree of normality. |
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Reply | BEN STOKES
at 16:37 15 Jan 2018
To me it seems ridiculous how long they have taken to come to this decision. |
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