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Liz Truss is the new PM on 13:03 - Sep 6 by QPR_John
“ Brexit probably would not have happened for a start ”.
Is that because Labour would have not have had a referendum or they would have ignored the result
Good point about the hard left and right
[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 13:05]
We had a referendum because Cameron wanted to appease the right wing of his party. He didn't believe for a minute they would win. Which is why he resigned as soon as it happened because he knew it would be a complete shit show. Also why Johnson had such a paucity of talent in his Government as he had to bring in luminaries like Raab, Hancock and Patel because of their pro Brexit views.
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 13:15 - Sep 6 with 2248 views
Liz Truss is the new PM on 12:15 - Sep 6 by sprocket
If I was a betting man I'd give her 6-9 months until she is forced to go to the people where Tories are kicked out. A winter of fuel poverty, food banks, strikes and the Tories unable to organize a p!ss up in a brewery plus in-fighting should do for her.
Lockdown did not cause the run down of UK public services. I cannot remember in my lifetime the decimation of our infrastructure. Staff are leaving the NHS in their droves and I cannot remember people saying there's no point in calling the police because they're not bothering to investigate x,y and z crime any more. The appalling and probably criminal waste of public money on track and trace and the funds to support businesses, the failure to take steps early on in the pandemic like closing borders or banning visits to particular countries or testing in care homes. You can't say that the Labour Party would have done those things if in Government.
We don't know if they would have invested in Green energy because they haven't had a chance. We've had a Government that likes to tell us that private companies do everything better. And yet we still don't have a functioning rail service, water utilities or energy despite it costing much more than publicly run services on the continent.
Truss is part of a Government that's had twelve years to sort out energy. What was their priority? Getting us out of the EU, which has really gone so brilliantly. The pound is nearly equivalent to the dollar. When I was a child it was four dollars to the pound.
As for TV GB news is an very right wing agenda, more like Fox News, not just a soft right of centre. There is no left wing equivalent. The Tory party don't want the BBC to scrutinise them at all.
Even if you leave out Metro news owned by the Mail, right wing papers outnumber left of centre in views by almost three times. There's no equivalency.
It's laughable to suggest Twitter, Facebook or Google is biased towards the Left. It is crammed full of right wing conspiracy theorists, anti vaxxers etc.
And don't come up with that ridiculous idea that the right is tolerant of other people's views. Go on Twitter and put something about Keir Starmer or Gordon Brown and you'll be overwhelmed with people with Union Flags on their banner. Listen to any interview with Rees Mogg and hear the contempt with which he deals with anyone who has a slightly different view to him. There is no attempt at finding consensus . They just want to ram through anything that acts in their self interest.
I am far from being a fan of the hard left, as I started in my post, they cause more problems by Labour Party unelectable.
We had a referendum because Cameron wanted to appease the right wing of his party. He didn't believe for a minute they would win. Which is why he resigned as soon as it happened because he knew it would be a complete shit show. Also why Johnson had such a paucity of talent in his Government as he had to bring in luminaries like Raab, Hancock and Patel because of their pro Brexit views.
Agree Cameron thought a referendum would put the question to bed for good. However the post I was replying to suggested there would not be Brexit if Labour had been in power so I simply asked the question. It is a bit odd though to suggest we should not have had a referendum in case the result was to leave. Are you saying our leaders knew best and the public should not have been asked. Maybe we should do away with elections. Let’s face it prior to the 2016 referendum we had never been given a chance to say whether we wanted to be in the EU or not. I remember way back when I voted to join the Common Market an entirely different entity.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 13:44]
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 13:51 - Sep 6 with 2115 views
I've yet to meet a right wing person who is reluctant to share their views.
The idea that their views are marginalised is also ludicrous when the Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph are out there peddling nationalism, hatred and lies.
Suffering since 1978.
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 13:54 - Sep 6 with 2102 views
Oh, come on. You and many others on here are very comfortable expressing your views. Just as you should be too.
Twitter is extensively used by the Right and Left, but as has been pointed out already, in the UK at least the Right's media budget and platforms far exceed the Left's.
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 14:12 - Sep 6 with 2056 views
Political persuasion is not as simplistic as Left Wing v Right Wing or Capitalism v Socialism.
What is quite obvious at the moment though is that UK society and Policy is at a crisis point. The subsequent impact on peoples perceived quality of life is in real danger. Bubbles will burst and when they do, the shit will really hit the fan.
For what it is worth, Truss appears to be oblivious to the storm that is coming and she may sink with her ship beyond anything she could possibly fathom.
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 14:21 - Sep 6 with 2027 views
We sowed the seeds for this energy crisis when we handed energy supply over to the private sector, along with so many other parts of our critical national infrastructure.
The Tories have for a long time been blocking the cheapest form of new energy, onshore wind, and have now set up the planning system such that if there is a single objection to a development, it goes on hold. They are also currently blocking applications for solar farms energetically (no pun intended).
Whatever Boris may say or think, nuclear power stations take at least 10 years to build and to the best of my knowledge, the small, modular reactors which some people have been promoting have never been used as part of a national power grid, although they have been used in transportation scenarios.
Fair play to the Tories, though, they have made progress when it comes to offshore wind.
One huge problem with energy supply, I believe, is that many people on the right and perhaps even in the centre feel that the left "owns" renewables and that they therefore can't support them.
In any case, given where we are, energy supply is not a binary thing, with renewables bad, nuclear good or vice versa. In the short and medium term, we probably need a mix of the two and many of the quantified energy plans drawn up by Cambridge University physics professor David Mackay do use a mix, although some are based solely on renewables and Stanford and Delaware Universities have also - separately - come up with energy plans for the world based solely on renewables.
I'll admit that powering the world on renewables is very challenging but it is if you go down the nuclear only route too. Don't forget the cost of cleaning up the nuclear waste we already have is £131bn, and, as Greenwich University states, the cost of nuclear power only ever goes up
One of the things contributing to the UK's current energy woes is that we normally rely on the French to export some excess nuclear energy to us. They can't do that currently because half of their nuclear power stations are offline simultaneously. 12 plants are offline due to corrosion near the welds on pipes of the safety injection system and 18 others are offline due to normal maintenance or ten-year outages. On average, nuclear power plants will be offline two days per month, for refuelling and maintenance.
No easy answers, sadly, but a serious home and business insulation programme would help. That sort of thing is not glamorous enough for many politicians and policy makers, though.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 14:27 - Sep 6 with 2005 views
Oh, come on. You and many others on here are very comfortable expressing your views. Just as you should be too.
Twitter is extensively used by the Right and Left, but as has been pointed out already, in the UK at least the Right's media budget and platforms far exceed the Left's.
I'm only comfortable sharing my views because I don't give a single shit if somebody wants to take issue with me over it. That's not the case for everyone.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 14:36 - Sep 6 with 1979 views
Liz Truss is the new PM on 13:51 - Sep 6 by Superhoop83
I've yet to meet a right wing person who is reluctant to share their views.
The idea that their views are marginalised is also ludicrous when the Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph are out there peddling nationalism, hatred and lies.
Reread what you have posted.
You are calling right wing views as being full of hatred and lies. What hope is there.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 14:51]
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 14:48 - Sep 6 with 1936 views
Liz Truss is the new PM on 13:51 - Sep 6 by Superhoop83
I've yet to meet a right wing person who is reluctant to share their views.
The idea that their views are marginalised is also ludicrous when the Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph are out there peddling nationalism, hatred and lies.
I'm yet to meet a Labour voter who is having to choose between heating and eating. Must mean they don't exist.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 14:52 - Sep 6 with 1920 views
The last 6 years have, up to a point, moved the political divide from Left vs Right to Leave vs Remain; pro vs anti Vax; climate change deniers vs the majority who recognise climate warning.
As a result, whatever Truss (or Sunak) said to Tory party members was irrelevant to most voters. I don't have to go far to see onshore wind turbines and I also see, in a working environment, how the French govt is trying to encourage energy savings. Lots of carrot and some stick.
UK has a lot of catching up to do on the latter. But a financial crisis does not.make it easy.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 15:19 - Sep 6 with 1858 views
Lockdown did not cause the run down of UK public services. I cannot remember in my lifetime the decimation of our infrastructure. Staff are leaving the NHS in their droves and I cannot remember people saying there's no point in calling the police because they're not bothering to investigate x,y and z crime any more. The appalling and probably criminal waste of public money on track and trace and the funds to support businesses, the failure to take steps early on in the pandemic like closing borders or banning visits to particular countries or testing in care homes. You can't say that the Labour Party would have done those things if in Government.
We don't know if they would have invested in Green energy because they haven't had a chance. We've had a Government that likes to tell us that private companies do everything better. And yet we still don't have a functioning rail service, water utilities or energy despite it costing much more than publicly run services on the continent.
Truss is part of a Government that's had twelve years to sort out energy. What was their priority? Getting us out of the EU, which has really gone so brilliantly. The pound is nearly equivalent to the dollar. When I was a child it was four dollars to the pound.
As for TV GB news is an very right wing agenda, more like Fox News, not just a soft right of centre. There is no left wing equivalent. The Tory party don't want the BBC to scrutinise them at all.
Even if you leave out Metro news owned by the Mail, right wing papers outnumber left of centre in views by almost three times. There's no equivalency.
It's laughable to suggest Twitter, Facebook or Google is biased towards the Left. It is crammed full of right wing conspiracy theorists, anti vaxxers etc.
And don't come up with that ridiculous idea that the right is tolerant of other people's views. Go on Twitter and put something about Keir Starmer or Gordon Brown and you'll be overwhelmed with people with Union Flags on their banner. Listen to any interview with Rees Mogg and hear the contempt with which he deals with anyone who has a slightly different view to him. There is no attempt at finding consensus . They just want to ram through anything that acts in their self interest.
I am far from being a fan of the hard left, as I started in my post, they cause more problems by Labour Party unelectable.
I'm not suggesting public services were perfect pre-pandemic but do you honestly think that the lockdown didn't have a worsening effect?
Around 1 in 20 people in this country are employed by the NHS. We have an increasingly ageing population and many of the nhs challenges are a reflection of that. How much more can we pour into the NHS.
I think it's so sad that last month July 22, the UK spent £19.4 billion on debt repayments. That's more than £10 billion than a year ago. Shame we weren't more sensible and able to put that money towards our services
Suggestions are Truss is going to announce a package worth 170 billion on Energy bill limits for people and small businesses. That is huge Weimar Republic vibes. Hyper inflation is coming to the UK
Keep in mind our public services have peaked. It's down only from here. Might need to take that emigration thread a bit more seriously
Comments raised by Nix and others on media. The Sun was Labour 97-2009
My social media comments were less on the individual and more on the more famous figures. Babylon Bee comedy kicked off Twitter. Libs of Tik Toks banned from platforms as well but people who threaten and dox them aren't. Zero hedge barred for questioning a lab leak theory. But in June 2022 they were kicked off. This question remains unsettled
Those of left leaning views are probably not aware as it's not a problem they face. But those on the right are more aware and we're often told join your own platform. When many did in numbers that showed genuine chance of the network adoption needed to be sticky and joined Parler after Trumps ban the app was then removed from the app store and Amazon hosting services
Hunter Biden story pre election was met with fact checks saying it was Russian Disinformation. But has since been proven to in fact be true
That's what I am talking about there not talking about your racist aunty posting Diana conspiracy theory links
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 15:21 - Sep 6 with 1845 views
Liz Truss is the new PM on 13:43 - Sep 6 by QPR_John
Agree Cameron thought a referendum would put the question to bed for good. However the post I was replying to suggested there would not be Brexit if Labour had been in power so I simply asked the question. It is a bit odd though to suggest we should not have had a referendum in case the result was to leave. Are you saying our leaders knew best and the public should not have been asked. Maybe we should do away with elections. Let’s face it prior to the 2016 referendum we had never been given a chance to say whether we wanted to be in the EU or not. I remember way back when I voted to join the Common Market an entirely different entity.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 13:44]
I didn't say that we shouldn't have a referendum in case the result was to leave, that's putting words in my mouth. I said Cameron only called for a referendum to appease the right wing of his party. There hadn't previously been a clamouring for the electorate to leave. It wasn't a massive political issue. Cameron just thought he could win and gain more political capital within his own party.
My issue with the referendum was more about the misinformation by the Leave Campaign which have been rehearsed many times on here and don't need to be repeated. And the fact that the biggest voters for Leave will be the least affected. The young people whose public services will be decimated for decades did not vote for this, it was in far greater numbers older people who had the least to lose who voted for it. Of course that's the problem with democracy, and I know that it's the better option despite its shortcomings. But I would also point out that there is a majority of people would bring back the death penalty and we don't have politicians going along with that.
Liz Truss is the new PM on 23:49 - Sep 5 by SydneyRs
This is the problem, "we are out" is all that matters to some. The country is clearly worse off for it, none of the issues leavers wanted resolved by it are going to be resolved by it, but "we are out" so that's cool.
Worse than that is the cowardice of Labour and others to call it out.
Talking in definitives saying things like "country is clearly worse off for it" in reference to Brexit
To give you a perspective of someone who did vote Brexit; a simple part of my many reasons is summed up by "better a bad government than a good king"
We get a chance every 4 to 5 years to change the direction of the country. With the EU we don't get that influence. Even if we voted 100% as a nation for one party. If Germany and France had a different view we would not be heading the direction we voted for.
Further on that point, good chance we are heading into a depression. The last time we did that in Europe we saw Franco, Mussolini and Hitler come to power. I'm glad that countries in Europe who will inevitably vote in extreme politicians this decade won't be me influencing our politics in the same way thanks to Brexit
On top of all this I'm not sure the currency can survive the decade. Italy a real basket case I'm glad we won't have to bail out in the same way as we would if in Europe still when they eventually go bankrupt
So I certainly don't agree with your definitive statement
Channel 4 news is the left wing version of GB news. It’s propaganda. It’s a biased skewed view and that’s why you have extremist comments from likes of super hoops83 calling differing view points “lies and hatred”
Others just have a different view. When the Germans sat and laughed at Trump for saying that their reliance on Russian gas was dangerous for all of us. Channel 4 and The Guardian w*nked themselves into oblivion.
I knew he was right at the time though. Many on the right did. So the direct consequence of the Germans and the likes of Channel 4 and the Guardian being wrong about that is the deaths of thousands of Ukrainians and millions more eventually from the consequences of the energy crisis
So what do we call that… lies and hatred? Or just dangerous ignorance?
As we now have direct examples of viewpoints we on the right were laughed at for. Maybe now when that same side is saying the speed of the switch to quickly to reliance on intermittent green power is dangerous. And our debt levels in a world were interest rates continue to rise is dangerous. Maybe have the self awareness to recognise the own fallibility of your own thoughts and that people from a different perspective may have equally noble aims and hopes and not just be doing this because they were full of hate or tricked by the media as many were by the sped of the switch to green and reliance on Russia indirectly in this country
[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 15:40]
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 15:40 - Sep 6 with 1749 views
What was that about their being 'virtually no connection' between the Labour party and unions?
With regards to Unite:
Unite is and will remain the biggest affiliate to the Labour party, something that we are very proud to be.
Direct quote from the Unite website.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 13:22]
Facts say otherwise. A bit of investigation will show you just how little socialism & union politics play a part in the PLP any longer. The Labour leader sacking MP's for standing on picket lines is a massive clue as to where Labour are now. The Forde report exposed those in power there now for the racist backstabbers that they are. Weaponsing anti-semitism was a low blow too.
The grass is always greener.
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 15:47 - Sep 6 with 1707 views
I didn't say that we shouldn't have a referendum in case the result was to leave, that's putting words in my mouth. I said Cameron only called for a referendum to appease the right wing of his party. There hadn't previously been a clamouring for the electorate to leave. It wasn't a massive political issue. Cameron just thought he could win and gain more political capital within his own party.
My issue with the referendum was more about the misinformation by the Leave Campaign which have been rehearsed many times on here and don't need to be repeated. And the fact that the biggest voters for Leave will be the least affected. The young people whose public services will be decimated for decades did not vote for this, it was in far greater numbers older people who had the least to lose who voted for it. Of course that's the problem with democracy, and I know that it's the better option despite its shortcomings. But I would also point out that there is a majority of people would bring back the death penalty and we don't have politicians going along with that.
“ There hadn't previously been a clamouring for the electorate to leave. It wasn't a massive political issue. ”
There had always been a steady criticism of the EU but the only time the electorate had a chance to really have their say in a general election no party with a possibility of forming a government wanted to leave. Even the big critic of the EU Jeremy Corbyn stayed silence once he became leader of the Labour Party
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 16:02 - Sep 6 with 1663 views
Liz Truss is the new PM on 15:40 - Sep 6 by Esox_Lucius
Facts say otherwise. A bit of investigation will show you just how little socialism & union politics play a part in the PLP any longer. The Labour leader sacking MP's for standing on picket lines is a massive clue as to where Labour are now. The Forde report exposed those in power there now for the racist backstabbers that they are. Weaponsing anti-semitism was a low blow too.
A bit of investigation show's that a front bench Labour MP was sacked for giving an unauthorised interview - not for being on the picket line. The same MP also said:
“I believe Keir Starmer is absolutely still the best person to become prime minister and I’ll be campaigning every day for a Labour government.”
Please feel free to share these 'facts' with me. I do hope it's something a bit more concrete than a speculative article from the Independent.
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 16:05 - Sep 6 with 1654 views
Liz Truss is the new PM on 12:15 - Sep 6 by sprocket
If I was a betting man I'd give her 6-9 months until she is forced to go to the people where Tories are kicked out. A winter of fuel poverty, food banks, strikes and the Tories unable to organize a p!ss up in a brewery plus in-fighting should do for her.
They can organise piss-up
I’m off now to chastise myself for commenting on a political thread. Bad boy.
Did I ever mention that I was in Minder?
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Liz Truss is the new PM on 16:35 - Sep 6 with 2477 views
Liz Truss is the new PM on 13:43 - Sep 6 by QPR_John
Agree Cameron thought a referendum would put the question to bed for good. However the post I was replying to suggested there would not be Brexit if Labour had been in power so I simply asked the question. It is a bit odd though to suggest we should not have had a referendum in case the result was to leave. Are you saying our leaders knew best and the public should not have been asked. Maybe we should do away with elections. Let’s face it prior to the 2016 referendum we had never been given a chance to say whether we wanted to be in the EU or not. I remember way back when I voted to join the Common Market an entirely different entity.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 13:44]
I agree that the Common Market was an entirely different entity back then (one that the UK would love to go back to) but you didn't vote to join the EEC. The UK joined in 1973 under the Conservative government. Labour won the 1974 general election(s) and in 1975 held a referendum to decide whether or not to remain in the EEC under slightly different terms. The public voted to stay.
Ironically, Cameron tried the same trick as Wilson. Unfortunately he failed to appreciate that not only were the terms he negotiated paltry but by then the EU was a very different beast to the EEC.
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