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Shame it didn't work for Robbie. IMO he didn't get the team prepared for the season and unfortunately deserves to go. I can understand what he wanted to achieve with the formation but didn't coach them well enough/quick enough to put it into action. We would be too far adrift before things clicked into place.
So, who do we want next.
I'll throw in a suggestion.
Dave Artell.
Steadily built up a Crewe team on a low budget and got promoted.
Not perfect by any means but he would be within our budget and has decent L2 experience and success.
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Next manager and reasons why... on 14:54 - Aug 20 with 4117 views
Next manager and reasons why... on 14:29 - Aug 20 by SuddenLad
Please stop suggesting Graham Alexander. Please. Dale isn't a good fit for him. He seems to be a manager who has cliques and is divisive. We don't want that.
Simon Gauge has just said that we have had over 100 applications, including former Championship managers, some from people already in a job and some from former L1 and L2 managers.
Let's take time to sift through the applications and select carefully. The next appointment is the most important in many a year.
Agreed.
I don't really see the appeal of a former championship manager that much, unless they have succeeded in league 2. I'd rather have someone who has done it at this level.
Next manager and reasons why... on 00:37 - Aug 20 by WellFan
Evening,
Came to light on our forum that you are considering our recently sacked manager Graham Alexander. On reading this thread probably best to give you a heads up on the guy.
Arrived in Jan 21 with us 11th out of 12 on goal difference. Remit was to keep us up which he did. Many of us weren't too bothered about what we were watching, we knew we were in a survival dogfight. Needless to say we missed out on our top 6 split by only a few points but despite that were able to secure safety with a few games left.
Seemed to buy well but late on in the summer, extended a few players who should have been released but we put that down to covid and not sure how the season would pan out.
Had a not too shabby first half of the season based on results but the football was awful to watch. We nicked goals and then went 5 or 6 at the back. The talisman playmaker left in January and he was offered an extension to 2025 based on the fact we had the highest points tally in the league outside Rangers and Celtic in the calendar year.
Then the rotten run and "tombola" selection. 4th at Christmas we didn't win in the league until April, 11 games without a win but we inexplicably qualified for the top six as those around us couldn't get any consistency. In a feat still a surprise to us we got European Qualification.
Players in form were dropped, many who did well sidelined only for their replacements to not justify their gametime. It was demoralising for the support and players.
It was ugly, uninspiring stuff, we scored 3 goals or more in 1 league match and once in the league cup against a lower league team. However he fulfilled his remit (on paper) and went into the new season.
We got Sligo in Q2 of the ECL and were beaten 1-0 at home and 2-0 away, a lost lucrative next game and suffered a major upset. He got the jettisoned the following day.
We were unprepared and lacking decent transfer activity. Rumours have since surfaced the board withheld funds as they wanted them for the next guy. Make of that what you like.
During his tenure he was secretive, autocratic and froze out many players, including the club captain/international. The talisman playmaker made a point of saying training at his new club was more "focused".
His brand of football will make your eyes bleed and I fear we'll be a few months to undo what he did to the dressing room and un coach his dire tactics. I don't think many of our players enjoyed going to work for the majority of his tenure.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2022 0:40]
'Arrived in Jan 21 with us 11th out of 12 on goal difference. Remit was to keep us up which he did. Many of us weren't too bothered about what we were watching, we knew we were in a survival dogfight. Needless to say we missed out on our top 6 split by only a few points but despite that were able to secure safety with a few games left.'
Thank you for taking the time post on here that detailed report of Alexander's time at Motherwell but that paragraph of yours that I've just quoted is exactly what we need right now.
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Next manager and reasons why... on 16:58 - Aug 20 with 3895 views
Next manager and reasons why... on 16:54 - Aug 20 by Clivert
'Arrived in Jan 21 with us 11th out of 12 on goal difference. Remit was to keep us up which he did. Many of us weren't too bothered about what we were watching, we knew we were in a survival dogfight. Needless to say we missed out on our top 6 split by only a few points but despite that were able to secure safety with a few games left.'
Thank you for taking the time post on here that detailed report of Alexander's time at Motherwell but that paragraph of yours that I've just quoted is exactly what we need right now.
I tend to agree. Would Alexander be my preference? Not at all for many of the reasons detailed by those who have seen his sides play regularly. However it’s about getting results and if he or a manager like him can do that, other factors may need to be put aside.
There are possibly better choices out there, so we need to wait and see. That wait cannot be much longer than another 48 hours. Again, merely an opinion.
Next manager and reasons why... on 16:58 - Aug 20 by 442Dale
I tend to agree. Would Alexander be my preference? Not at all for many of the reasons detailed by those who have seen his sides play regularly. However it’s about getting results and if he or a manager like him can do that, other factors may need to be put aside.
There are possibly better choices out there, so we need to wait and see. That wait cannot be much longer than another 48 hours. Again, merely an opinion.
Alexander is my first choice and yes the detailed summary from the Motherwell fan is a bit of a warning but was GA out of his depth managing in the Scottish Prem, he won't have the problem of managing international players with us! On paper he has a good record managing in League2 and the two divisons either side of it, I think that it's a no brainer of an appointment with him being out of work right now.
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Next manager and reasons why... on 17:27 - Aug 20 with 3772 views
If the club are sifting through 100 applications, i'd say it's highly unlikely we'll have a new manager before the close of the transfer window; or at the very best, right up against it
This will take longer if the club are applying the type of guidelines on assessing applicants that apply in many businesses now, where those not short-listed can potentially request a rationale from the employer for not making it. Doesn't mean they will - just that the bureaucracy has increased due to anti-discrimination legislation
In the meantime, i doubt BigJim will have the authority to recruit
Next manager and reasons why... on 22:25 - Aug 20 by D_Alien
If the club are sifting through 100 applications, i'd say it's highly unlikely we'll have a new manager before the close of the transfer window; or at the very best, right up against it
This will take longer if the club are applying the type of guidelines on assessing applicants that apply in many businesses now, where those not short-listed can potentially request a rationale from the employer for not making it. Doesn't mean they will - just that the bureaucracy has increased due to anti-discrimination legislation
In the meantime, i doubt BigJim will have the authority to recruit
[Post edited 20 Aug 2022 22:28]
Would hope by now they’ve already got a very short shortlist and it’s sorted by midweek at the latest.
With the job not being advertised, what procedures would they have to follow? Not a clue.
Next manager and reasons why... on 22:25 - Aug 20 by D_Alien
If the club are sifting through 100 applications, i'd say it's highly unlikely we'll have a new manager before the close of the transfer window; or at the very best, right up against it
This will take longer if the club are applying the type of guidelines on assessing applicants that apply in many businesses now, where those not short-listed can potentially request a rationale from the employer for not making it. Doesn't mean they will - just that the bureaucracy has increased due to anti-discrimination legislation
In the meantime, i doubt BigJim will have the authority to recruit
[Post edited 20 Aug 2022 22:28]
No need to read all the way through every application if there are a number of criteria that need to be met prior to shortlisting. That might be playing career, coaching qualifications, familiarity with the division, greatest improvement from appointment to end of tenure. range of experience, budgetary management, etc etc.
The you invite a short list. There are two main styles of interviewing, 1 (old style) is to set a bunch of standard questions and see who gives the most convincing answers, the other , a newer format is to ask them "tell me about a time when......." this provokes a lengthier response and allows for interruptions from the interviewer for more clarity or deeper explanation. A typical question might be " tell me about a time when results were going badly and what you had to do to change things" Or " tell me about a time when you had to change your philosophy to suit a group of players" Key to the answers is the word "I" many people say "we did this and we did that" the retort is , "no, tell me what you personally did"
The purpose is to find the person who has the PERSONAL experience of the situation, not as a bystander or as part of a group.
The answer to those not shortlisted is " I'm sorry , your application did not meet our detailed criteria on this occasion"
Next manager and reasons why... on 22:48 - Aug 20 by 49thseason
No need to read all the way through every application if there are a number of criteria that need to be met prior to shortlisting. That might be playing career, coaching qualifications, familiarity with the division, greatest improvement from appointment to end of tenure. range of experience, budgetary management, etc etc.
The you invite a short list. There are two main styles of interviewing, 1 (old style) is to set a bunch of standard questions and see who gives the most convincing answers, the other , a newer format is to ask them "tell me about a time when......." this provokes a lengthier response and allows for interruptions from the interviewer for more clarity or deeper explanation. A typical question might be " tell me about a time when results were going badly and what you had to do to change things" Or " tell me about a time when you had to change your philosophy to suit a group of players" Key to the answers is the word "I" many people say "we did this and we did that" the retort is , "no, tell me what you personally did"
The purpose is to find the person who has the PERSONAL experience of the situation, not as a bystander or as part of a group.
The answer to those not shortlisted is " I'm sorry , your application did not meet our detailed criteria on this occasion"
Think most people understand what interviews are like. The important thing is finding the right match and hearing what plans those who have been identified as the best options have to turn the club around.
Next manager and reasons why... on 16:54 - Aug 20 by Clivert
'Arrived in Jan 21 with us 11th out of 12 on goal difference. Remit was to keep us up which he did. Many of us weren't too bothered about what we were watching, we knew we were in a survival dogfight. Needless to say we missed out on our top 6 split by only a few points but despite that were able to secure safety with a few games left.'
Thank you for taking the time post on here that detailed report of Alexander's time at Motherwell but that paragraph of yours that I've just quoted is exactly what we need right now.
Thing is the team he inherited finished 3rd in the covid interrupted season. He didn't get a bag of dross. The guy who he replaced just seemed to lose his mojo and ran out of ideas.
In January when he got his extension I conveyed I thought that was the best bit of business we could have done in the window. How things changed.
You may feel at present he is what you need but you have to consider what he will leave behind. We're sitting 3rd again tonight on 9 points from 12, we should have have been on 10 other than a 90+3 winner against us.
Again I'd direct you to pie and bovril or steelmenonline, look at what people were saying after Sligo and before the league started. It was dire stuff with even the most happy clapper thinking it was playoff at best.
Our players look happy like a weight has been lifted as our new manager is letting them actually play football again and not some sort of moneyball percentages crap.
For example at the AGM he was asked why he never left anyone on the halfway line for corners. His answer was in 175 we had conceded two. However he also overlooked how we never scored on the break but how can you quantify a hypothetical.
Alexander takes good players and makes them average due to his particular ethos, that's the one's he doesn't fall out with or punish. Truely a toxic guy to have at the helm of a football club.
Forewarned is forearmed.
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Next manager and reasons why... on 02:17 - Aug 21 with 2910 views
One gave us the longest run without a home win in our football league history & a relegation.
One has recruited a team that has given us our worst start in our football league history, which has left us with 0 points and 1 goal after 5 games with the worst record in the EFL today.
Surely we can find better this time?
[Post edited 21 Aug 2022 2:22]
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Next manager and reasons why... on 07:24 - Aug 21 with 2748 views
Next manager and reasons why... on 07:24 - Aug 21 by James1980
If the recruitment ends up being what leads to the downfall of our Football League status, why has it gone so drastically wrong?
I think it all started to unravel when Chris Dunphy and Keith Hill were at the club and i can remember the exact time when alarm bells went off for me. At the time we were playing the best football i’ve ever seen us play and i still believe that if there was the will we would have ended up in the Championship.Then all of a sudden things changed, they shit their pants at the prospect of Championship football, a once in a lifetime chance. I think we quickly sold Matt Done and Hill came out with a strange statement at the time that mentioned the need to look at consolidation and i think he used Walsall as a example. I mentioned at the time that it felt like the hand brake had been slammed on and the word ‘consolidation’ in football means standing still instead of constantly trying to keep achieving..in fact consolidation in football leads to regression and from that moment that is what we have seen.
I also think that the focus has been constantly to sell players and not look after the playing squad, too much emphasis on playing kids from the youth team and bringing in youngsters on loan with no experience at EFL level. At times i’ve looked at our line up and we have looked like a youth team and played like one, no physicality, no guile, no bravery and no experience. Players who haven’t even physically developed, men against boys in a very physical league. Then it continued under the last regime with a CEO ( I use the word very loosely) who detested the fact that we had players at the club earning decent wages, he told me that himself. So the high earners ( Henderson etc) were released and replaced by mainly young players either from the youth team or on loan, players who showed flashes of promise but never any consistency in performance. At every opportunity he sold players, always for undisclosed fees.
So the first team hasn’t been looked after, those charged with looking after the club haven’t reinvested player sales back into the club, they’ve gone for the cheapest option, often a untried kid wearing a oversized shirt and shorts dragging around his ankles. I don’t believe we have had proper winners leading the club neither, a Chairman and a set of Directors with the winning mentality to really want us to be better than everybody else or at least try. It’s been a Saturday club for those in the Boardroom over recent years, so much so they couldn’t be arsed with it anymore and tried to flog it off on the sly. Thankfully we now have new people in but it’s going to take time to steady the ship, they are good people and will do their best for the club, for me that is more important than what league we are competing in. I hope that answers your question James but it’s only my perspective others will have different opinions,
[Post edited 21 Aug 2022 9:30]
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Next manager and reasons why... on 09:16 - Aug 21 with 2494 views
Next manager and reasons why... on 08:45 - Aug 21 by TalkingSutty
I think it all started to unravel when Chris Dunphy and Keith Hill were at the club and i can remember the exact time when alarm bells went off for me. At the time we were playing the best football i’ve ever seen us play and i still believe that if there was the will we would have ended up in the Championship.Then all of a sudden things changed, they shit their pants at the prospect of Championship football, a once in a lifetime chance. I think we quickly sold Matt Done and Hill came out with a strange statement at the time that mentioned the need to look at consolidation and i think he used Walsall as a example. I mentioned at the time that it felt like the hand brake had been slammed on and the word ‘consolidation’ in football means standing still instead of constantly trying to keep achieving..in fact consolidation in football leads to regression and from that moment that is what we have seen.
I also think that the focus has been constantly to sell players and not look after the playing squad, too much emphasis on playing kids from the youth team and bringing in youngsters on loan with no experience at EFL level. At times i’ve looked at our line up and we have looked like a youth team and played like one, no physicality, no guile, no bravery and no experience. Players who haven’t even physically developed, men against boys in a very physical league. Then it continued under the last regime with a CEO ( I use the word very loosely) who detested the fact that we had players at the club earning decent wages, he told me that himself. So the high earners ( Henderson etc) were released and replaced by mainly young players either from the youth team or on loan, players who showed flashes of promise but never any consistency in performance. At every opportunity he sold players, always for undisclosed fees.
So the first team hasn’t been looked after, those charged with looking after the club haven’t reinvested player sales back into the club, they’ve gone for the cheapest option, often a untried kid wearing a oversized shirt and shorts dragging around his ankles. I don’t believe we have had proper winners leading the club neither, a Chairman and a set of Directors with the winning mentality to really want us to be better than everybody else or at least try. It’s been a Saturday club for those in the Boardroom over recent years, so much so they couldn’t be arsed with it anymore and tried to flog it off on the sly. Thankfully we now have new people in but it’s going to take time to steady the ship, they are good people and will do their best for the club, for me that is more important than what league we are competing in. I hope that answers your question James but it’s only my perspective others will have different opinions,
[Post edited 21 Aug 2022 9:30]
Thank you for taking the time to write that considered reply. Am I right in summarising, that the situation regards to the recruitment in January and this summer has not been helped by the poor custodianship of the club in previous years?
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Next manager and reasons why... on 09:16 - Aug 21 by James1980
Thank you for taking the time to write that considered reply. Am I right in summarising, that the situation regards to the recruitment in January and this summer has not been helped by the poor custodianship of the club in previous years?
Well Stockdale was severely hampered from the start, that was down to those who didn’t care about the club or the credentials of the people who they tried to off load it to. So yes he was hampered but not to the extent that it can be used to excuse the continuing poor results and general standard of play. The Chairman was right to sack him in the end.
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Next manager and reasons why... on 09:30 - Aug 21 with 2458 views
Hopefully they will have a shortlist sorted by mid-week and do the interviews by next Monday, to give the new manager a day or so to make some signings before the deadline. However having listen to the chairman yesterday, I suspect that they intend to take their time in appointing a new manager.
Alternatively will McNulty be empowered to sign people, because we desperately need bodies in, before the deadline day, but this could create problems for the manager, in that they may not be the players they want.
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Next manager and reasons why... on 09:42 - Aug 21 with 2419 views
Next manager and reasons why... on 09:30 - Aug 21 by NorthernDale
Hopefully they will have a shortlist sorted by mid-week and do the interviews by next Monday, to give the new manager a day or so to make some signings before the deadline. However having listen to the chairman yesterday, I suspect that they intend to take their time in appointing a new manager.
Alternatively will McNulty be empowered to sign people, because we desperately need bodies in, before the deadline day, but this could create problems for the manager, in that they may not be the players they want.
Everyone assumes that any new appointment will be bringing in some new players but is there actually any money in the pot for this? Weren't we maxed out in the summer and now have the management duo to pay off as well? I guess there could be some shape shifting with returning loanees etc, but I don't see a raft of new faces.
Next manager and reasons why... on 09:16 - Aug 21 by James1980
Thank you for taking the time to write that considered reply. Am I right in summarising, that the situation regards to the recruitment in January and this summer has not been helped by the poor custodianship of the club in previous years?
Mistakes will be made at any club, even more so when it’s sometimes a matter of luck how signings work out.
After selling Done in 14/15 we went close to the play-offs that season and the two subsequent seasons, carrying on the philosophy of adding players to what we already had with the hope we improved. eg NML in 15/16, Steven Davies in 16/17. It’s not something we stopped doing either, only in the summer of 2017 the budget was increased and some signings didn’t work out as we’d wished - the return of Done, Jordan Williams. Same the following year when Perkins and Wilbraham arrived.
Even then after Hill left and BBM kept us up, that same principle seemed to be followed and you can look at the Covid summer of 2020 when Henderson left as a good example - we brought in Humphrys and Beesley for money. They’re now at Championship clubs. We’ve since signed Charman, Campbell and Rodney who COULD do well and move on, they may not as well.
Unfortunately, there’s plenty of identifiable mistakes but there’s also got to be a realisation that sometimes things will work and sometimes they won’t. That’s why managers will come and go. That’s lower league football. We became somewhat immune to it under Hill, to the point that the Eyre/Coleman era is viewed as a mere bump in the road when in fact we’d gone totally off the tracks and Hill’s greatest accomplishment was how quickly he corrected that. But let’s be honest, that’s because the signings of Henderson, Rose, Vincenti etc worked out. They may not have!
We are where we are, the mistakes off the pitch are probably easier to control than those on it. That’s why having a well run club where mistakes are acknowledged and dealt with is vital. When it comes to the football, we need to steady the ship and perhaps accept that floating around in the calm waters of L2 mid-table isn’t such a bad thing and finding a manager who can do that for now is the priority.
On a lighter note has anyone read Wikipedia on Artell.
When he took over Crewe in 2017(only 36 at the time and his first job) they were facing relegation out of League 2 after a 4-0 defeat at Hartlepool. He then warned his players that relegation means oblivion . They would end up on the Conference North on £200 aweek with a job as a milkman. They then won 4 of the next 5 games and went up to 17th. Subsequently they were promoted and had their best ever season in Leage 1.
It didn`t last.........BUT maybe this is what we need right now.
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Next manager and reasons why... on 11:00 - Aug 21 with 2197 views
There has been some berating of this summer's recruitment which has been funded with an increased budget. Yesterday the chairman was positive about the recruitment, yes perhaps of course he would be, but he could have said nothing about it or not been so upbeat.
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Next manager and reasons why... on 10:59 - Aug 21 by samueloneils
On a lighter note has anyone read Wikipedia on Artell.
When he took over Crewe in 2017(only 36 at the time and his first job) they were facing relegation out of League 2 after a 4-0 defeat at Hartlepool. He then warned his players that relegation means oblivion . They would end up on the Conference North on £200 aweek with a job as a milkman. They then won 4 of the next 5 games and went up to 17th. Subsequently they were promoted and had their best ever season in Leage 1.
It didn`t last.........BUT maybe this is what we need right now.
That oblivion line appeared a couple of lines.
Tenner says we see it before October if he’s appointed!
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