| Russell Martin 22:19 - Aug 5 with 4366 views | Fireboy2 |
Hands up who would take relegation to get rid of RM?
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| Russell Martin on 22:20 - Aug 5 with 3482 views | Fireboy2 |
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| Russell Martin on 22:21 - Aug 5 with 3467 views | KeithHaynes |
Similar thread in here already mate, but very well said. |  |
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| Russell Martin on 22:22 - Aug 5 with 3459 views | Fireboy2 |
| Russell Martin on 22:21 - Aug 5 by KeithHaynes |
Similar thread in here already mate, but very well said. |
Yes I know.
And thanks 😊 | | | |
| Russell Martin on 22:25 - Aug 5 with 3450 views | KeithHaynes |
| Russell Martin on 22:22 - Aug 5 by Fireboy2 |
Yes I know.
And thanks 😊 |
I think at least relegation to league 2 would sway me regards sacking him. | |
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| Russell Martin on 22:26 - Aug 5 with 3440 views | Dr_Winston |
There are many who take great pleasure in the team doing poorly, despite their protestations to the contrary.
Does anyone genuinely believe that people who have spent the entire summer predicting our doom hope to be proved wrong? Hell no. The team doing well would be their worst nightmare. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Russell Martin on 22:26 - Aug 5 with 3447 views | Whiterockin |
Never going to happen. |  | | |
| Russell Martin on 02:33 - Aug 6 with 3327 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Russell Martin on 22:26 - Aug 5 by Dr_Winston |
There are many who take great pleasure in the team doing poorly, despite their protestations to the contrary.
Does anyone genuinely believe that people who have spent the entire summer predicting our doom hope to be proved wrong? Hell no. The team doing well would be their worst nightmare. |
I haven’t seen anyone predict we will do poorly, have you then?
Ironically all the negativity regarding the future seems to be coming from the staunch RM supporters, lots of talk of relegation and bottom half being ok. Thats the epitome of negativity regarding our future despite having a top 8 budget.
What you seem to be referring to is people commenting all summer on what HAS happened, not what WILL happen. I make no predictions on the future, i just critique what has gone on already… hence why much of the comments aren't exactly flattering.
Of course everyone wants the club to do well, that's the entire point.
But it's come to a point where those that backed him are unable to back down, despite the continued under performance of the team.
Which is why you are now seeing a load of excuses, worst case scenario being okay and expectation lowering posts left, right and centre.
The discussion is intentionally and not so subtly being shifted, it seems like this "give him 10 games" is now getting extended by language already.
What fascinates me is everyone now realises what’s what, it’s just a matter of who is willing to admit it and jump off the cult wagon. |  |
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| Russell Martin on 08:30 - Aug 6 with 3275 views | STID2017 |
| Russell Martin on 22:26 - Aug 5 by Dr_Winston |
There are many who take great pleasure in the team doing poorly, despite their protestations to the contrary.
Does anyone genuinely believe that people who have spent the entire summer predicting our doom hope to be proved wrong? Hell no. The team doing well would be their worst nightmare. |
Excellent post and is the correct answer.
Funny that the biggest anti Martin poster from down under is trying to say that the posters like myself and you, who are supporting RM, are the ones predicting a less than positive season and getting their excuses ready.
Can't make it up mun |  |
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| Russell Martin on 09:05 - Aug 6 with 3225 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Russell Martin on 08:30 - Aug 6 by STID2017 |
Excellent post and is the correct answer.
Funny that the biggest anti Martin poster from down under is trying to say that the posters like myself and you, who are supporting RM, are the ones predicting a less than positive season and getting their excuses ready.
Can't make it up mun |
Your type are far more negative than me about what’s to come that’s for sure (not specifically you). I’ve not made any predictions, only that we should be competing at the upper echelons of the league.
My factual statements come as a result of what has happened, not on what is to come. If Martin starts winning games then he gets the praise that comes with that.
As it stands he finished 15th, massively underachieving and hasn’t won any of his last 7 games.
Again, my views are entirely in line with what we are seeing. Yours aren’t. | |
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| Russell Martin on 09:32 - Aug 6 with 3202 views | onehunglow |
Great thread.
Wonderful to see our club supported by such people.
Makes one proud,don't it. |  |
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| Russell Martin on 09:42 - Aug 6 with 3189 views | Dr_Winston |
| Russell Martin on 08:30 - Aug 6 by STID2017 |
Excellent post and is the correct answer.
Funny that the biggest anti Martin poster from down under is trying to say that the posters like myself and you, who are supporting RM, are the ones predicting a less than positive season and getting their excuses ready.
Can't make it up mun |
I'm supporting the team. I want it to do well. If it does, then that means RM will have done well. If it doesn't, then he'll be on his way. That's football. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Russell Martin on 09:45 - Aug 6 with 3169 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Russell Martin on 09:42 - Aug 6 by Dr_Winston |
I'm supporting the team. I want it to do well. If it does, then that means RM will have done well. If it doesn't, then he'll be on his way. That's football. |
But by supporting the club you want what’s best for it. If that means critiquing an under performing manager then that should be the case.
Are you saying if I looked at your history there would be no criticism of Cooper for example? No criticism of Bob Bradley?
Or is this an example of an ever increasing number of principles conveniently that only have come into play since Russell Martin has been manager? | |
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| Russell Martin on 09:47 - Aug 6 with 3184 views | raynor94 |
| Russell Martin on 09:42 - Aug 6 by Dr_Winston |
I'm supporting the team. I want it to do well. If it does, then that means RM will have done well. If it doesn't, then he'll be on his way. That's football. |
It's as simple as that |  |
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| Russell Martin on 09:47 - Aug 6 with 3177 views | onehunglow |
| Russell Martin on 09:45 - Aug 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
But by supporting the club you want what’s best for it. If that means critiquing an under performing manager then that should be the case.
Are you saying if I looked at your history there would be no criticism of Cooper for example? No criticism of Bob Bradley?
Or is this an example of an ever increasing number of principles conveniently that only have come into play since Russell Martin has been manager? |
Dr P
You're on your own now .
Good luck with Winston. | |
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| Russell Martin on 09:54 - Aug 6 with 3171 views | Boundy |
Supporting the Team, Club or Manager are intertwined but that's not say if one fails the other two will . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Russell Martin on 10:26 - Aug 6 with 3135 views | vetchonian |
| Russell Martin on 09:45 - Aug 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
But by supporting the club you want what’s best for it. If that means critiquing an under performing manager then that should be the case.
Are you saying if I looked at your history there would be no criticism of Cooper for example? No criticism of Bob Bradley?
Or is this an example of an ever increasing number of principles conveniently that only have come into play since Russell Martin has been manager? |
Well put Doc
ITs why I get so wound up it seems itwas fine to criticise prevoius managers despite them achieivng or other managers who were responsible of the underperformance of the team
There were msany posts back in Laudrups second season criticising him as wew were under performing in the league....his focus was on Europe.....yet the season before he had led us to our first meaningful cup win he had achieved something.
Yet those of us who objectively critique our current manager who in his toatl managerial carrer has achived nothing than finishing 12th in Lg 1 are told we are negative.
In all walks of life managers are appointed /sacked by their achievenements all Dr P has done is question Martin's along with myself.
And apart from topping the possesion stats table in consecutive season he has done little less....surely this shows his system doesnt work?
Last season we were told to give him time he has had time, already many on here are lowering the bar of expectation making excuses and so is the man himself.
Last season was the highest we had spent on trnasfer for many a year this season Martin has briught in players of his choice in Darling Sorinola who he has worked with before we have strnghtedned what was already a good squad with the addition of Allen a Welsh international with Premiership pedigree to add to other PL predigree palers in Naughton and Fulton whilst we lost Downes we still are in a good competeitve shape.
Yet many scorn those of us who believe that we should be targeting top 6 and talk of relegation as part of a "reset" the reset wasdone last season.
Im tired of this harping back to old days...things were different I certainly wouldnt have said in 1982/83 I will be happy for a relegation to Div 3 in order to reset.
We get told we should rememeber those dark days in the 90s when we didnt have the preverbial pot,trained on public parks and certainly werent selling on players for £10M profit or have a strike force valued at circa £25M.... or two state of the art training facilities
My expectations then were driven by what resources I knew the club had just as they are now
I dont want to see him sacked I certainly dont want us relegated not for any reason but those of you who keep labelling those of us as negaive step back and read your posts...and ours I certainly have not been negative I ahve questioned Martins abilty and used data to question his lack of achievemnt.
Today the sun is shining Im looking forward to my first game of the season...I am full of optimism that I will witness an entertaining win for my beloved Swans. that smy heart though my head does have its doubts but I am open to be proven wrong despite the evidnece | |
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| Russell Martin on 10:29 - Aug 6 with 3132 views | Fireboy2 |
| Russell Martin on 10:26 - Aug 6 by vetchonian |
Well put Doc
ITs why I get so wound up it seems itwas fine to criticise prevoius managers despite them achieivng or other managers who were responsible of the underperformance of the team
There were msany posts back in Laudrups second season criticising him as wew were under performing in the league....his focus was on Europe.....yet the season before he had led us to our first meaningful cup win he had achieved something.
Yet those of us who objectively critique our current manager who in his toatl managerial carrer has achived nothing than finishing 12th in Lg 1 are told we are negative.
In all walks of life managers are appointed /sacked by their achievenements all Dr P has done is question Martin's along with myself.
And apart from topping the possesion stats table in consecutive season he has done little less....surely this shows his system doesnt work?
Last season we were told to give him time he has had time, already many on here are lowering the bar of expectation making excuses and so is the man himself.
Last season was the highest we had spent on trnasfer for many a year this season Martin has briught in players of his choice in Darling Sorinola who he has worked with before we have strnghtedned what was already a good squad with the addition of Allen a Welsh international with Premiership pedigree to add to other PL predigree palers in Naughton and Fulton whilst we lost Downes we still are in a good competeitve shape.
Yet many scorn those of us who believe that we should be targeting top 6 and talk of relegation as part of a "reset" the reset wasdone last season.
Im tired of this harping back to old days...things were different I certainly wouldnt have said in 1982/83 I will be happy for a relegation to Div 3 in order to reset.
We get told we should rememeber those dark days in the 90s when we didnt have the preverbial pot,trained on public parks and certainly werent selling on players for £10M profit or have a strike force valued at circa £25M.... or two state of the art training facilities
My expectations then were driven by what resources I knew the club had just as they are now
I dont want to see him sacked I certainly dont want us relegated not for any reason but those of you who keep labelling those of us as negaive step back and read your posts...and ours I certainly have not been negative I ahve questioned Martins abilty and used data to question his lack of achievemnt.
Today the sun is shining Im looking forward to my first game of the season...I am full of optimism that I will witness an entertaining win for my beloved Swans. that smy heart though my head does have its doubts but I am open to be proven wrong despite the evidnece |
Bloody hell vetch, a simple yes or no would suffice, not war and peace 🙄 | | | |
| Russell Martin on 10:41 - Aug 6 with 3100 views | heatwave |
I'm going down today hoping for firstly a win and secondly a good performance. Hoping for relegation because I don't like the manager is not an option. |  | | |
| Russell Martin on 10:46 - Aug 6 with 3094 views | onehunglow |
| Russell Martin on 10:29 - Aug 6 by Fireboy2 |
Bloody hell vetch, a simple yes or no would suffice, not war and peace 🙄 |
War and Peace a great book which people need to read before quoting .
Vetch is simply posting how we all feel. | |
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| Russell Martin on 11:21 - Aug 6 with 3073 views | jack247 |
| Russell Martin on 10:26 - Aug 6 by vetchonian |
Well put Doc
ITs why I get so wound up it seems itwas fine to criticise prevoius managers despite them achieivng or other managers who were responsible of the underperformance of the team
There were msany posts back in Laudrups second season criticising him as wew were under performing in the league....his focus was on Europe.....yet the season before he had led us to our first meaningful cup win he had achieved something.
Yet those of us who objectively critique our current manager who in his toatl managerial carrer has achived nothing than finishing 12th in Lg 1 are told we are negative.
In all walks of life managers are appointed /sacked by their achievenements all Dr P has done is question Martin's along with myself.
And apart from topping the possesion stats table in consecutive season he has done little less....surely this shows his system doesnt work?
Last season we were told to give him time he has had time, already many on here are lowering the bar of expectation making excuses and so is the man himself.
Last season was the highest we had spent on trnasfer for many a year this season Martin has briught in players of his choice in Darling Sorinola who he has worked with before we have strnghtedned what was already a good squad with the addition of Allen a Welsh international with Premiership pedigree to add to other PL predigree palers in Naughton and Fulton whilst we lost Downes we still are in a good competeitve shape.
Yet many scorn those of us who believe that we should be targeting top 6 and talk of relegation as part of a "reset" the reset wasdone last season.
Im tired of this harping back to old days...things were different I certainly wouldnt have said in 1982/83 I will be happy for a relegation to Div 3 in order to reset.
We get told we should rememeber those dark days in the 90s when we didnt have the preverbial pot,trained on public parks and certainly werent selling on players for £10M profit or have a strike force valued at circa £25M.... or two state of the art training facilities
My expectations then were driven by what resources I knew the club had just as they are now
I dont want to see him sacked I certainly dont want us relegated not for any reason but those of you who keep labelling those of us as negaive step back and read your posts...and ours I certainly have not been negative I ahve questioned Martins abilty and used data to question his lack of achievemnt.
Today the sun is shining Im looking forward to my first game of the season...I am full of optimism that I will witness an entertaining win for my beloved Swans. that smy heart though my head does have its doubts but I am open to be proven wrong despite the evidnece |
Russell Martin takes a lot of criticism on here. Not all, but a lot of it is deserved in my opinion. It’s not as if he’s beyond reproach.
I don’t think promotion or relegation are realistic. The way we play will make us too inconsistent for either. We’ll shred some teams, we’ll beat ourselves just as often. That’s down to his playing style and it’s on him.
Assuming Sorinola turns out ok, we’re only a right wing back and a fit Joe Allen from having a very competitive cup final eleven. Wingbacks aside, we’ve got decent cover in most positions.
Of course, all that changes if we lose Piroe this month.
With the club needing to sell big or run at a loss, it gets harder every season. That doesn’t mean top six wouldn’t be achievable with this squad, I just don’t see us getting it playing the way we do. | | | |
| Russell Martin on 11:40 - Aug 6 with 3043 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Russell Martin on 11:21 - Aug 6 by jack247 |
Russell Martin takes a lot of criticism on here. Not all, but a lot of it is deserved in my opinion. It’s not as if he’s beyond reproach.
I don’t think promotion or relegation are realistic. The way we play will make us too inconsistent for either. We’ll shred some teams, we’ll beat ourselves just as often. That’s down to his playing style and it’s on him.
Assuming Sorinola turns out ok, we’re only a right wing back and a fit Joe Allen from having a very competitive cup final eleven. Wingbacks aside, we’ve got decent cover in most positions.
Of course, all that changes if we lose Piroe this month.
With the club needing to sell big or run at a loss, it gets harder every season. That doesn’t mean top six wouldn’t be achievable with this squad, I just don’t see us getting it playing the way we do. |
Promotion should be realistic with our budget and squad though.
That’s the point.
It being seen as unrealistic under Russell is probably the issue at hand and why some very serious conversations need to be had behind the scenes about where we are going as a club here.
If a side with the 8th biggest budget (and almost nothing between us and 6th) don’t have a realistic chance for promotion after 1 game - something isn’t right. | |
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| Russell Martin on 11:44 - Aug 6 with 3046 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Right now we are a right back short of a decent starting 11. A bit more pragmatism at the back and Allen in midfield we should do okay. |  |
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| Russell Martin on 12:06 - Aug 6 with 3029 views | jack247 |
| Russell Martin on 11:40 - Aug 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
Promotion should be realistic with our budget and squad though.
That’s the point.
It being seen as unrealistic under Russell is probably the issue at hand and why some very serious conversations need to be had behind the scenes about where we are going as a club here.
If a side with the 8th biggest budget (and almost nothing between us and 6th) don’t have a realistic chance for promotion after 1 game - something isn’t right. |
We’re not disagreeing on that. I think we’d be a reasonable outside bet for top 6 with a less radical playing style. I think it will be very difficult while we are so open defensively.
Personally speaking, it’s nothing to do with the one game, im basing my view on last season.
We won’t agree on this point, but I believe our owners would see promotion as a fantastic bonus now and their priority is to keep us out of trouble financially until they find a buyer. Every season we have to sell our best players and rely on unearthing gems to replace them it’s going to get harder.
They can see what is happening on the pitch just as well as we can. | | | |
| Russell Martin on 12:11 - Aug 6 with 3023 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Russell Martin on 12:06 - Aug 6 by jack247 |
We’re not disagreeing on that. I think we’d be a reasonable outside bet for top 6 with a less radical playing style. I think it will be very difficult while we are so open defensively.
Personally speaking, it’s nothing to do with the one game, im basing my view on last season.
We won’t agree on this point, but I believe our owners would see promotion as a fantastic bonus now and their priority is to keep us out of trouble financially until they find a buyer. Every season we have to sell our best players and rely on unearthing gems to replace them it’s going to get harder.
They can see what is happening on the pitch just as well as we can. |
They wouldn’t be giving us such a large budget if they were simply trying to keep us afloat. There are clubs with £2m-£4m salary budgets that spend zero year on year on transfers.
We have spent £7m on transfers in the last 12 months. | |
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| Russell Martin on 12:32 - Aug 6 with 3002 views | jack247 |
| Russell Martin on 12:11 - Aug 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
They wouldn’t be giving us such a large budget if they were simply trying to keep us afloat. There are clubs with £2m-£4m salary budgets that spend zero year on year on transfers.
We have spent £7m on transfers in the last 12 months. |
Yes, but those clubs generally haven’t brought in the money we have for Downes, Roberts and Lowe in the same period. I haven’t looked, but doubt many of them have a £4-5m surplus.
Buy players for £500k, £1m, £1.5m, hope to sell them for many multiples of that. There are lots of recent examples of it. Whittaker, Joseph and Ogbeta fit that profile just as well as Downes and Piroe.
Without doing that, we probably would have to borrow more, or slash the budget and be competing for players with teams like Rotherham. | | | |
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