| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid 12:57 - Jul 16 with 101730 views | 34dfgdf54 |
Bid rejected from las palmas apparently.
Siggy replacement and a very good one at that allegedly. |  | | |  |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:22 - Jul 16 with 1890 views | hobo |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:29 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
Christ, I'm agreeing with you again.
Unless I'm missing something, it seems obvious to me that if you are replacing a key player, particularly if you sell him for massive money, that the only real consideration should be getting the best replacement for the coming season. Resale value should be a bonus in this kind of situation.
Im also not convinced you have to make a profit in the transfer market with the money that comes just from being in the PL |
The point is that this Viera fella is nowhere near Siggy's level! And yet he'd cost an astronomical amount. I agree however, we need to replace quality with quality, and I've no issues with spending big on a player who would massively improve our squad. This player ain't it though |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:23 - Jul 16 with 1887 views | EasternJack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:54 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
Profit, resale and breaking even is key for not only for you being able to watch us, but many years and generations after you. Our thinking is far too short term.
X2 of these signings and we have a couple of seasons out of them and then thats it. Gone.
I am not saying £25m should not be spent, but £25m if being spent on one player, simply HAS to fit the mould where we can get a lot of that transfer fee back to reinvest back into the side when he moves on. Otherwise these seasons you love watching wont be very many in number, I assure you.
We have adopted a pretty good transfer model thus far and it has allowed us room for error with the odd signing. Ditching that coz we have had a big sale is completely wreckless and beyind stupid lacking any responsible forward long term thinking.
Its screams panic rather than realising an opportunity to grow the club for decades. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 22:55]
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Yes. All good points - but have you not been watching the last 2/3 seasons?
We will get relegated this year if we don't invest. And you can throw your model out the window on championship tv earnings |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:23 - Jul 16 with 1887 views | jack_lord |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:09 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
Our operating costs have increased year on year and no doubt will comtinue to do so. We posted a £14.2m loss on our last set of accounts.
There is nothing to positively advocate at the moment. There is a potential deal on the table to sign a 27 year old with a sketchy record, signed for £700k season before last.... for €30m (?!) which I am certainly not advocating in any way shape or form.
I am stating that with that amount of money, there absolutely is a better method to replace Gylfi which has a higher chance of protecting the long term goals to have a club in the PL - and that is to sign proven class, at a younger age to enable the cycle to continue when they leave and we get to sell at peak value - not buy at peak value.
The be all end end all is most certainly not staying up. It is ensuring we give ourselves the best chance to stay up for a prolonged period of time. Not spunking it all so we get a good few years. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 23:15]
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"If" we are selling Gylfi and it would be in the region of 45 million then we can afford to be in a position to buy a 25 million guy with less resale value as the profit is already made on the Iceman. We could be in a position to buy another player for 20 million who meets the other conditions where we buy younger and are able to profit from that resale.
I will say that proven class at a younger age will be expensive today and there are plenty of Premier teams out there looking for the same player.
Crazy money in a crazy bubble world though. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:24 - Jul 16 with 1884 views | hobo |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:06 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
I don't know how accurate the reports are, but if he has a €30m buy out clause and we opened the bidding at €25m, I'd expect us to be back in for him |
Also release clauses in Spain are hardly ever met. I think I recall that every player in Spain has to have a release clause in their contract so clubs just put in obscenely high prices that will never realistically be met | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:28 - Jul 16 with 1863 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:09 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
Our operating costs have increased year on year and no doubt will comtinue to do so. We posted a £14.2m loss on our last set of accounts.
There is nothing to positively advocate at the moment. There is a potential deal on the table to sign a 27 year old with a sketchy record, signed for £700k season before last.... for €30m (?!) which I am certainly not advocating in any way shape or form.
I am stating that with that amount of money, there absolutely is a better method to replace Gylfi which has a higher chance of protecting the long term goals to have a club in the PL - and that is to sign proven class, at a younger age to enable the cycle to continue when they leave and we get to sell at peak value - not buy at peak value.
The be all end end all is most certainly not staying up. It is ensuring we give ourselves the best chance to stay up for a prolonged period of time. Not spunking it all so we get a good few years. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 23:15]
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The last set of accounts didn't include the Ayew and Williams sales. As of March this year, they expected the next set to show a £10m profit.
The point you are missing is that we could go down this season. With that in mind, the be all and end all absolutely is staying up. I don't think anyone has said Viera is the answer, the general consensus seems to be we don't know enough about him. You can't give yourself the best chance of staying up for a prolonged period of time if you sell your star player, don't replace him properly and get relegated immediately.
What people are saying, is that spending £25m on a 27 year old isn't crazy for a PL club in the process of selling a 27 year old for substantially more. If the club feel there is a 23 year old out there available for the same price who,would have a similar immediate impact and a greater resale value, I'm sure they would be interested in signing him. |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:29 - Jul 16 with 1856 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:23 - Jul 16 by EasternJack |
Yes. All good points - but have you not been watching the last 2/3 seasons?
We will get relegated this year if we don't invest. And you can throw your model out the window on championship tv earnings |
Where has anybody said not invest though?
My point is not to spend nothing. Spend the whole £40m for all I care, but in the right kind of players that we can continue to reinvest when they leave.. Otherwise you reach the end of the cycle with no player and nothing left to re-invest to replace with.
Surely that is the way to get relegated? |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:31 - Jul 16 with 1849 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:28 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
The last set of accounts didn't include the Ayew and Williams sales. As of March this year, they expected the next set to show a £10m profit.
The point you are missing is that we could go down this season. With that in mind, the be all and end all absolutely is staying up. I don't think anyone has said Viera is the answer, the general consensus seems to be we don't know enough about him. You can't give yourself the best chance of staying up for a prolonged period of time if you sell your star player, don't replace him properly and get relegated immediately.
What people are saying, is that spending £25m on a 27 year old isn't crazy for a PL club in the process of selling a 27 year old for substantially more. If the club feel there is a 23 year old out there available for the same price who,would have a similar immediate impact and a greater resale value, I'm sure they would be interested in signing him. |
We still wouldmt have made a profit. The player sales are amortised in the accounts, it would probably show £2.5m of Williams and £5m of Ayew.
It only shows that we survive by player sales. So in order to continue to survive we NEED resale value, its not a nice little bonus - its essential.
It doesnt matter how much we are selling him for. We could be selling him for £110m, it still shouldnt make a difference. Unless we get resale value in our purchases then eventually we will have no player and no money to replace them with. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 23:34]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:33 - Jul 16 with 1842 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:31 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
We still wouldmt have made a profit. The player sales are amortised in the accounts, it would probably show £2.5m of Williams and £5m of Ayew.
It only shows that we survive by player sales. So in order to continue to survive we NEED resale value, its not a nice little bonus - its essential.
It doesnt matter how much we are selling him for. We could be selling him for £110m, it still shouldnt make a difference. Unless we get resale value in our purchases then eventually we will have no player and no money to replace them with. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 23:34]
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I'd prioritise PL survival over resale value.
What are your views on Llorente? | | | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:35 - Jul 16 with 1836 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:33 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
I'd prioritise PL survival over resale value.
What are your views on Llorente? |
They go hand in hand.
If we dont get resale value, eventually we go down, skint.
Llorente is a good player. Wouldnt be spending £25m on him if he played for someone else though and he has done far more on the field than Viera to warrant it. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 23:37]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:39 - Jul 16 with 1817 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:35 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
They go hand in hand.
If we dont get resale value, eventually we go down, skint.
Llorente is a good player. Wouldnt be spending £25m on him if he played for someone else though and he has done far more on the field than Viera to warrant it. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 23:37]
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Resale value, like everything else, gets slashed if we go down because we have singed potential rather than players who are currently good enough.
Llorente was early 30s and was struggling to get in the Sevilla side when we signed him. We didn't bring him in to sell on at a profit, we brought him in to help keep us in the league. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:39 - Jul 16 with 1817 views | jack_lord |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:35 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
They go hand in hand.
If we dont get resale value, eventually we go down, skint.
Llorente is a good player. Wouldnt be spending £25m on him if he played for someone else though and he has done far more on the field than Viera to warrant it. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 23:37]
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If our Academy reaps rewards then we are not so reliant on resale value. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:43 - Jul 16 with 1799 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:39 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
Resale value, like everything else, gets slashed if we go down because we have singed potential rather than players who are currently good enough.
Llorente was early 30s and was struggling to get in the Sevilla side when we signed him. We didn't bring him in to sell on at a profit, we brought him in to help keep us in the league. |
For £30m you get more than just "potential". You get 23 year old seasoned internationals. Nobody is talking about a 16 year old untried player. We are talking about the likes of Davy Klaasen, Dutch International proven on the world stage.
Yes Llorente was in his 30's and due to his lack of resale value, the price we paid reflected that. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:44 - Jul 16 with 1795 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:39 - Jul 16 by jack_lord |
If our Academy reaps rewards then we are not so reliant on resale value. |
Aye, its not though is it.
Until that comes consistantly into the equasion then relying on it is beyind foolish. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:48 - Jul 16 with 1781 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:43 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
For £30m you get more than just "potential". You get 23 year old seasoned internationals. Nobody is talking about a 16 year old untried player. We are talking about the likes of Davy Klaasen, Dutch International proven on the world stage.
Yes Llorente was in his 30's and due to his lack of resale value, the price we paid reflected that. |
He isn't a seasoned international, he has played about 12 games in 3 years. Everton have already signed him anyway. I get your point though.
If there are better, younger options than Viera out there, then great. If not, signing him won't turn us into Portsmouth. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:53 - Jul 16 with 1764 views | jack_lord |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:44 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
Aye, its not though is it.
Until that comes consistantly into the equasion then relying on it is beyind foolish. |
We are not relying on it but developing it in order that we may not foolishly rely on market resale which may go wrong as many clubs have witnessed when "star" players have seen their vales tumble. Our Michu witnessed that fate.
As a club we need to increase revenue from all avenues.
Certainly we need to increase the capacity of the stadium as we might end up with a bunch of 60 to 90 year olds filling the stadium with OAP cut price season tickets and no new fans otherwise. Silly example but we need to get more people in to watch the Swans.
Resale value is important at the moment but if we get 45 million for Gylfi and we buy another 27 year old for 25 million we still have 20 million spare for the future which is more that we could hope for. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:58 - Jul 16 with 1749 views | Martyrman57 |
In Clement we trust. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:59 - Jul 16 with 1735 views | bluenile |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:25 - Jul 16 by raynor94 |
Exactly, it's a no brainer, the only thing confusing me, is how has his value risen so quickly, from being bought for 900,000 euros to 30,000,000 in two years? |
Well, we signed Alfie Mawson for around £5 million, and some on here went apoplectic, but one season on and the talk is of Spurs paying, possibly, £30 million.........................Feck me, what happened there then? |  |
| Open the ipod bay doors Hal |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:02 - Jul 17 with 1726 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:48 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
He isn't a seasoned international, he has played about 12 games in 3 years. Everton have already signed him anyway. I get your point though.
If there are better, younger options than Viera out there, then great. If not, signing him won't turn us into Portsmouth. |
All im saying is look at the players that sign for £30m every season (Sane, Mane, Martial, Klaasen, Erikson). Its not a case of IF there is younger better options, there just simply ARE better options. We will be completely wreckless to spend this kind of money on an unproven player with little to no end value.
It wnt turn us into Portsmouth no, but it will squander an opportunity for the club to grow which if continues will certainly lead to our relegation. No question. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:07 - Jul 17 with 1712 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:53 - Jul 16 by jack_lord |
We are not relying on it but developing it in order that we may not foolishly rely on market resale which may go wrong as many clubs have witnessed when "star" players have seen their vales tumble. Our Michu witnessed that fate.
As a club we need to increase revenue from all avenues.
Certainly we need to increase the capacity of the stadium as we might end up with a bunch of 60 to 90 year olds filling the stadium with OAP cut price season tickets and no new fans otherwise. Silly example but we need to get more people in to watch the Swans.
Resale value is important at the moment but if we get 45 million for Gylfi and we buy another 27 year old for 25 million we still have 20 million spare for the future which is more that we could hope for. |
Michu was signed for £2m.
You have to rely on market resale, it is up to your scouting department to pick thr right players. Is there more chance of turning a profit on a £25m rated class 23 year old or a £25m class 27 year old after a few seasons? The answer is easy. So it is about percentages. You go with the strategy that gives a much higher % chance of working.
I dont understand the stadium examole im sorry.
Where is this £20m spare coming from? What happens when Viera leaves? We use that to replace him with yeah? (So already we are presumably regressing in quality £27m replacing with a £20m player weighted with 3-4 years of inflation)... 3 years down the line the replacement leaves.. What happens then? We have no CM and no money. Do we then face relegation? | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:09 - Jul 17 with 1707 views | AngelRangelQS |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:59 - Jul 16 by bluenile |
Well, we signed Alfie Mawson for around £5 million, and some on here went apoplectic, but one season on and the talk is of Spurs paying, possibly, £30 million.........................Feck me, what happened there then? |
Yes and Alfie is far from the finished article. He's had a semi decent half season, nothing more. I do like the guy though there is no way anyone is paying £30m for him.
As far as I'm concerned, if Viera does very well for us, he'll probably be sold next summer for another big profit. He'll be 28. That would be money well spent.
If he does well but nobody takes a punt then we keep him for 5 seasons, he plays his part in us staying up and it's money well spent
The biggest risk is that he's sh*t (obviously). Does anyone know why it didn't work out for him elsewhere? |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:11 - Jul 17 with 1701 views | mahoss |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:02 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
All im saying is look at the players that sign for £30m every season (Sane, Mane, Martial, Klaasen, Erikson). Its not a case of IF there is younger better options, there just simply ARE better options. We will be completely wreckless to spend this kind of money on an unproven player with little to no end value.
It wnt turn us into Portsmouth no, but it will squander an opportunity for the club to grow which if continues will certainly lead to our relegation. No question. |
There's an awful lot of experts on here tonight.
Let's let the club decide eh !
Gylfi will need replacing,if the club think this is the guy,they will go for him,if they don't,they won't 👠[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 0:14]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:18 - Jul 17 with 1675 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:11 - Jul 17 by mahoss |
There's an awful lot of experts on here tonight.
Let's let the club decide eh !
Gylfi will need replacing,if the club think this is the guy,they will go for him,if they don't,they won't 👠[Post edited 17 Jul 2017 0:14]
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You dont need to be an expert to know signing 27 year old Viera for €30m is stupid, regardless of what the club thinks. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:25 - Jul 17 with 1650 views | jack_lord |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:07 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
Michu was signed for £2m.
You have to rely on market resale, it is up to your scouting department to pick thr right players. Is there more chance of turning a profit on a £25m rated class 23 year old or a £25m class 27 year old after a few seasons? The answer is easy. So it is about percentages. You go with the strategy that gives a much higher % chance of working.
I dont understand the stadium examole im sorry.
Where is this £20m spare coming from? What happens when Viera leaves? We use that to replace him with yeah? (So already we are presumably regressing in quality £27m replacing with a £20m player weighted with 3-4 years of inflation)... 3 years down the line the replacement leaves.. What happens then? We have no CM and no money. Do we then face relegation? |
A few months ago we would be lucky to get more than 20 million for Gylfi.
If we sold him for that we would have had to replace him. We would have been looking at players for much less cost than that and I agree how the resale value is important for us.
The new figure is huge. That is where we can buy the 25 million pound man because he is basically Gylfi in another dress. Gylfi could have a crap season. His stock could fall. Worse, he could get injured and never be the same player.
The spare 20 million is quite clearly the extra money that we received between buying Gylfi in another dress and what we apparently will receive from another club for him. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:26 - Jul 17 with 1648 views | airedale |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:18 - Jul 17 by E20Jack |
You dont need to be an expert to know signing 27 year old Viera for €30m is stupid, regardless of what the club thinks. |
Ha ha, classic E20, PL clubs will be falling over themselves to get you on board to advise shortly no doubt! |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 00:28 - Jul 17 with 1642 views | jack_lord |
Michu was bought for 2 million yes. We could have sold him for 20 million. As I point out, resale value is volatile. We missed out there based on your idea of resale value. | |
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