| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... 08:16 - Feb 14 with 24375 views | Lohengrin |
Kick back and chill out, mun. Have a day off FFS! 
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:52 - Feb 18 with 2943 views | Lohengrin |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:47 - Feb 18 by Badgeman |
We promoted sectarian divisions within communities that had not previously held such beliefs. I'm delving back a bit but a few examples I can think of are:
Divide et Impera. We segregated army regiments in a manner that was divisive and provocative to those serving as well as those where troops were stationed. We also encouraged the role of religion in politics via the concept of separate electorates. The effect of this can still be seen today in India.
Our divide and rule policies have left a disastrous legacy in India in Pakistan.
I'd recommend this journal article from Science and Society. It's a bit old to say the least but it's the best thing I could find for free on t'internet.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/40400043?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents |
What I find rather amusing about articles like that is what is described as Divide and Rule is the exact same tactic that was employed a hundred or so years later but termed Triangulation. A sensible policy that is almost universally credited with preventing the Cold War from blistering.
The role of the Imperial administrators was to promote and implement policy that prevented bloodshed. In as much as they were viewed, in the main, by the various sub-continental protagonists as even-handed is borne out by the fact that today's Indian legal system is a derivation of the British legal system. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:56 - Feb 18 with 2937 views | Lohengrin |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:01 - Feb 18 by trampie |
Its a mystery why some people would fight [and talk for] for some foreign religious groups but deride other foreign religious groups. |
The adherents of a foreign religious group planting bombs on London buses and the Underground, attempting to blow-up Glasgow airport and raping thousands of children across England may have someting to do with it. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:57 - Feb 18 with 2935 views | AnotherJohn |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 12:59 - Feb 18 by Badgeman |
I'm not here to pick an internet fight with you but your assertions that the problems within the Asian subcontinent are largely exacerbated due to the inflammatory nature of Muslims is simply wrong. You spoke briefly about the Partition of India in 1947.
The Partition in 1947 was a defining event for the region, much in the same way that the Holocaust has been for Jews. It has altered the perceptions of race, religion, and identity for those who have heritage there for the past, present and future. To look upon the partition and remark "typical Muslims, causing violence everywhere" is to completely fail to grasp any historical context of the region.
Britains exit was clumsy, to say the least. Our history of violence, rape and pillage in the region is a shameful chapter in our history. I'm amazed that it's one that isn't recited more often, lest we forget the disgusting atrocities we committed on the Asian subcontinent. While Lisa's assertion that the region was peaceful was stretching the truth a little bit, the fact that sectarian violence in the region was encouraged under British rule cannot be disregarded. We took communities that had co-existed in relative peace and turned them against each other as part of our policy of divide and rule in India. There are plenty of instances in history where Hindus and Muslims have mixed culturally. For example, The Sufi in Punjab blended their beliefs with their Hindu counterparts. This was a region that would go on to experience some of the worst violence seen during the Partition.
The partition was born out of a complex political struggle, which left anywhere between 500 000 and 2 000 000 million people dead with a further 14 000 000 displaced. Unspeakable atrocities occurred on both sides and to be honest, I find it tasteless and disgusting that people might try and use it as an example to denigrate one section of society to reaffirm their own assumptions. It's a shame that people might wish to use the victims of genocide, rape violence, and unspeakable horror to score such points. Deep scars have been left and it's a prism for which religion, culture and identity is now distorted. We may never see the region recover from it. |
It is good to see somebody trying to inject some serious analysis into a thread like this. The problem though as far as I'm concerned is that the analysis put forward is almost entirely wrong. Scholars trace the tensions in India between Hindus and Muslims back at least to the 7th century when Islam spread to the region. For an alternative view to the article you cited, which challenges the 'divide and rule' thesis, people might want to read:
Francis Robinson, Separatism Among Indian Muslims: The Politics of the United Provinces 1860-1923, CUP, 1974.
There are many other publications that examine Islam in the pre-Raj period and the long-standing religious tensions that flared up from time to time. In my view there is so much lazy scholarship these days that blames too much on Empire. |  | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 18:12 - Feb 18 with 2885 views | Badgeman |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:57 - Feb 18 by AnotherJohn |
It is good to see somebody trying to inject some serious analysis into a thread like this. The problem though as far as I'm concerned is that the analysis put forward is almost entirely wrong. Scholars trace the tensions in India between Hindus and Muslims back at least to the 7th century when Islam spread to the region. For an alternative view to the article you cited, which challenges the 'divide and rule' thesis, people might want to read:
Francis Robinson, Separatism Among Indian Muslims: The Politics of the United Provinces 1860-1923, CUP, 1974.
There are many other publications that examine Islam in the pre-Raj period and the long-standing religious tensions that flared up from time to time. In my view there is so much lazy scholarship these days that blames too much on Empire. |
Well we will have to agree to disagree on the divide and rule thesis. I'm aware of earlier traces of violence e.g. Muhammad bin Qasim but instances such as the Partition of Bengal cannot be disregarded. It's a hotly contested academic topic and I feel like we both know where each other is coming from.
In my view, there are lots of people too willing to attribute sectarian and religious atrocities to Muslims, regardless of historical, social or cultural circumstance. To summarise the root causes of violence during the Partition of India as "typical Muslims" flies in the face of historical fact. |  |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 18:49 - Feb 18 with 2857 views | perchrockjack |
History is one thing.
As of now, it is Islam and its various adherents thst are the problem.
More divisions within the faith . | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 20:03 - Feb 18 with 2828 views | VetchitBack |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 12:59 - Feb 18 by Badgeman |
I'm not here to pick an internet fight with you but your assertions that the problems within the Asian subcontinent are largely exacerbated due to the inflammatory nature of Muslims is simply wrong. You spoke briefly about the Partition of India in 1947.
The Partition in 1947 was a defining event for the region, much in the same way that the Holocaust has been for Jews. It has altered the perceptions of race, religion, and identity for those who have heritage there for the past, present and future. To look upon the partition and remark "typical Muslims, causing violence everywhere" is to completely fail to grasp any historical context of the region.
Britains exit was clumsy, to say the least. Our history of violence, rape and pillage in the region is a shameful chapter in our history. I'm amazed that it's one that isn't recited more often, lest we forget the disgusting atrocities we committed on the Asian subcontinent. While Lisa's assertion that the region was peaceful was stretching the truth a little bit, the fact that sectarian violence in the region was encouraged under British rule cannot be disregarded. We took communities that had co-existed in relative peace and turned them against each other as part of our policy of divide and rule in India. There are plenty of instances in history where Hindus and Muslims have mixed culturally. For example, The Sufi in Punjab blended their beliefs with their Hindu counterparts. This was a region that would go on to experience some of the worst violence seen during the Partition.
The partition was born out of a complex political struggle, which left anywhere between 500 000 and 2 000 000 million people dead with a further 14 000 000 displaced. Unspeakable atrocities occurred on both sides and to be honest, I find it tasteless and disgusting that people might try and use it as an example to denigrate one section of society to reaffirm their own assumptions. It's a shame that people might wish to use the victims of genocide, rape violence, and unspeakable horror to score such points. Deep scars have been left and it's a prism for which religion, culture and identity is now distorted. We may never see the region recover from it. |
Are you the BBC by any chance? |  |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 20:56 - Feb 18 with 2791 views | Badgeman |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 20:03 - Feb 18 by VetchitBack |
Are you the BBC by any chance? |
The omnipotent voice of the British Broadcasting Corporation or the porn abbreviation for big black c**k. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 00:01 - Feb 19 with 2753 views | Kerouac |
Islamic armies invaded India a long time ago...
Over the centuries they murdered millions of Hindus, even naming a region the Hindu Kush (Hindu Slaughter)....historians argue over how many were killed but estimates range from 80-400 million.
Pause, let that number sink in.
They destroyed Hindu and Sikh temples, and then incorporated the debris into the construction of Mosques.
They murdered the men, there are accounts of chopping their heads off in front of their families.
They raped the women, took them as sex slaves.
They castrated the boys and made them slaves.
One Muslim leader's army alone was responsible for the murder of 5 million Indians in his lifetime.
Don't believe me? Do some research.
Islamic writers documented a lot of this themselves. They were proud of it!
Remember that the next time somebody brings "the crusades" into an argument.
While we're on the subject. Which came first, the crusades or the Islamic invasion of Europe?
Answers on a postcard.
They did some disgusting stuff in Spain.
Capturing thousands of little blonde girls to send home to be sex slaves.
One North African leader following a victorious battle cut off the head of the chief of the Spanish tribe. He then raped the blokes wife in the pool of blood.
Some people call this period "the golden age of Islam".
The Indian leader Modhi is considered to be a right wing nationalist who is anti-Islam.
Is it a surprise, given their history and Pakistan's continued claim to Kashmir, that Indians vote for such a man?
I would wager that some who criticise from afar would have voted for him too in the same circumstances.
Imagine, Scotland re named "Celtic Slaughter" by the Norwegians, who had murdered millions of us, subjugated us, in the past....and they now had Scotland, 14% of our population were Norweigians, and they wanted more of our country still.
Would we be voting for a "strong government" who were not going to take any more shit....fukking right we would.
But of course, for some people everything was the British Empire's fault....or the Yanks....or the Jews.
Unfortunately a lot of people who feel this way are on the same wing of politics as me, it makes me fukking ashamed, and I say enough. |  |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 15:20 - Feb 19 with 2696 views | trampie |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 21:39 - Feb 17 by Kerouac |
Explaining shit to you is a bit like teaching nursery children. Only instead of experiencing some delight either by seeing the world through their eyes or watching them develop and learn....you just suck the fukking life out of me.
I haven't got time for the following;
Yes, we only have a minority of Muslims.
In other countries where it is the dominant religion those minorities are routinely persecuted.
Which is why I am arguing that we discourage Islam here, pronto.
I haven't once advocated invading Muslim countries. NOT ONCE.
There are (obviously) many ways to fight the growth of extreme religious ideology .
A good start would be a plan, a clear strategy for reducing the Islamic share of our population, reducing the power of all religion in our country. No religious schools for anybody would be a good start. No public money going to any organization with religious affinities. An inquiry into corruption in local politics with consequences, reform of the postal ballot system ensure that those who want to post their vote either have to produce evidence of a medical condition or be temporarily out of the country, stopping the flow of Saudi money to build mosques, rooting out the worst of the preachers.
Apply this stuff across the board, same rules for all religions. I don't care if it makes religious people in general uncomfortable.
....but yes Tramp, if it comes to it I am prepared to fight and kill people to preserve your freedom.
Looking forward to the next installment of....Trampie makes a proper kunt of himself, again. |
Are there still laws about being able to shoot a Welshman after dark with a bow and arrow within certain city walls ?, do we have an unelected head of state ?, apparently an allegiance has or is that is - expected to be sworn in certain circumstances, a state religion in certain parts of the sovereign state, internment without trial [is that still possible] and some would say execution without trial or death penalty in certain situations [thinking NI related things].
What some see as a lack of freedom others see as freedom, your freedom and my freedom might be two different things, your will fight for your own freedom and force/expect others to have what is your version of your perceived freedom.
Therefore you would not fight for my freedom if you disagreed with what I think my freedom should be.
So yet again you are writting bullsh*t Kerouac. [Post edited 19 Feb 2016 15:28]
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 02:44 - Feb 22 with 2597 views | Townhill_Hilton |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:27 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
I have no idea what you're on about, I really don't. As I said (and clarified) I was referring to Moslems in India, not Pakistan. When you say Islam is separated from other religions in India it simply shows a lack of knowledge. There are over 180m Moslems living in India (about the same number as in Pakistan) and they live happily with everyone else all over the country.
There is a growing problem in India with Hindu fundamentalism not helped by BJP and Narendra Modi - the ordinary Hindus themselves are concerned about it as they believe that it will stir up the same problems as they see elsewhere and they are all happy to remain mixed together as they are at the moment. There have been shocking attacks in India on both Christians and mainly Moslems since Modi's election - as it doesn't quite fit with the prevailing Western narrative, it goes largely unreported in the West.
I was most recently in India at Christmas just gone, and without exception, Hindus and Moslems alike wished us a Merry Christmas, hung decorations and signs up, and the local villagers (again both religions) even made mince pies for us. The children were all excited about Christmas and everyone had a day's holiday.
The reality of life is often hidden and distorted by isolated incidents that the press report, or are picked up by websites with dangerous agendas. People see what they want to see, but the vast, vast majority of people live together very happily. |
I think you will find the radicalisation of Pakistan's muslims comes from the prosetlysation of Salafist or Wahabbi doctrines from Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the source too of the radical Islamists ideology which spread to second generation Pakistani immigrants to Britain. The massive oil wealth has led to the building of mosques schools (madrassas) and the spreading through Saudi clerics all the puritanical and jihadist rhetoric which stoke the fire within Islamists. |  | | |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 08:52 - Feb 22 with 2561 views | Kerouac |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 15:20 - Feb 19 by trampie |
Are there still laws about being able to shoot a Welshman after dark with a bow and arrow within certain city walls ?, do we have an unelected head of state ?, apparently an allegiance has or is that is - expected to be sworn in certain circumstances, a state religion in certain parts of the sovereign state, internment without trial [is that still possible] and some would say execution without trial or death penalty in certain situations [thinking NI related things].
What some see as a lack of freedom others see as freedom, your freedom and my freedom might be two different things, your will fight for your own freedom and force/expect others to have what is your version of your perceived freedom.
Therefore you would not fight for my freedom if you disagreed with what I think my freedom should be.
So yet again you are writting bullsh*t Kerouac. [Post edited 19 Feb 2016 15:28]
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I would fight for your freedom though Tramp.
I would fight for your freedom even though you're so fukking twp you don't even realise how good you've got it.
I suspect that the country you would fight for would discriminate against those who didn't agree with, or didn't fit in to, your Nationalist, Socialist (They used to call that National Socialism) version of Wales....and that is the big difference really.
....but no need to worry as Plaid have only a small chance of winning an assembly election and absolutely fukk all chance of winning an Independence referendum. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 09:08 - Feb 22 with 2545 views | perchrockjack |
For me, a brilliant post by kerouc, sadly it leads to archcock trampie butting in with yhet more drivel.
Its Chester that he refers to and frankly, I can see why that law stood .
At least, he doesn't represent Welsh people or people of Welsh stock.
Im working out how he s come off "ignore" | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 09:09 - Feb 22 with 2544 views | trampie |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 08:52 - Feb 22 by Kerouac |
I would fight for your freedom though Tramp.
I would fight for your freedom even though you're so fukking twp you don't even realise how good you've got it.
I suspect that the country you would fight for would discriminate against those who didn't agree with, or didn't fit in to, your Nationalist, Socialist (They used to call that National Socialism) version of Wales....and that is the big difference really.
....but no need to worry as Plaid have only a small chance of winning an assembly election and absolutely fukk all chance of winning an Independence referendum. |
On the contrary it is you that would discriminate against people not me as proved by this thread, I would treat all groups the same, you clearly would not. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 10:13 - Feb 22 with 2523 views | Kerouac |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 09:09 - Feb 22 by trampie |
On the contrary it is you that would discriminate against people not me as proved by this thread, I would treat all groups the same, you clearly would not. |
Where have I said that I would treat any of our citizens differently?
I would clamp down hard on all religions, citizens would still be able to practice their own religion privately....there would still be churches and mosques. I just don't want any more mosques as the growth of an intolerant religion is like a weed that grows in the garden, eventually it chokes the life growing around it.
I would separate the church from the state.
I would abolish monarchy and the House of Lords.
I would reform the voting system to be a version of PR; so every citizens vote counts, so all views held by sections of our population are represented in our parliament, so there is a greater chance of coalition government (which forces parties to compromise and work with people who disagree with them....a more grown up form of politics).
I am looking to empower every citizen.
- I would fight for every citizen's right to practice Islam within the confines of our law....
which means no sexual discrimination, no practices which are against the law (polygamy for instance) no hate speech against our citizens (I would bug every church, synagogue and Mosque to achieve this if I had to....nobody should be telling crowds of people that their fellow citizens are immoral, impious wretches. I would fill the jails up with those who do), there should be no religious segregation in the schools. No funding from countries who promote an extreme version of the religion and the only lessons that children should be given in Arabic should be lessons in how to speak Arabic (without the involvement of religion).
Anyone who resists this can leave as far as I am concerned.
We should control the religious not the other way around.
- As you can guess though, I believe our society shouldn't fight for Islam. For the promotion of Islam OR ANY OTHER RELIGION.
Why on earth would any society want to promote an alternative society, which is totally at odds with the host society, within it's midst?
A society with it's own rules, which doesn't respect our law, which seeks to limit what the rest of us can think/say/do.
How does that make any sense?
It doesn't it's madness.
Nigeria has Islamic terrorism, why?
Thailand has Islamic terrorism, why?
France has Islamic terrorism, why?
Japan doesn't. Why do you suppose that is?
The emperor's new clothes is a good story to tell your kids don't you think. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 10:42 - Feb 22 with 2502 views | trampie |
Clamping down hard on religion is not treating religious people equally, bugging churches is not treating certain people equally. [Post edited 22 Feb 2016 10:43]
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 11:26 - Feb 22 with 2473 views | Kerouac |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 10:42 - Feb 22 by trampie |
Clamping down hard on religion is not treating religious people equally, bugging churches is not treating certain people equally. [Post edited 22 Feb 2016 10:43]
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"Clamping down hard on religion is not treating religious people equally"
Yes it is, it is treating all religious people equally in a society that tolerates religion but is clear that the state is a secular one whose law is to be respected by every single citizen....no special treatment for any groups.
"bugging churches is not treating certain people equally."
All people are equal under our law.
Our law states that there is to be no hate speech (e.g. against Americans, Jews and Christians...against our women, labelling them "prostitutes" and such because they dress differently etc.).
UK Islam has been guilty of this and has given us reason to suspect this is going on in mosques and madrassas right now in our country.
The government has moved to regulate madrassas for this very reason....and guess what?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35252469
They want to be free to spread hate.
Well, they can't.
Not here (not if I was in charge).
We are talking about upholding the law. OUR LAW.
Interesting that a Welsh nationalist believes that some citizens should be free to spread hate and enmity towards their fellow citizens (their fellow citizens who have been kind enough to allow these foreigners to set up home in this country) because religious freedom trumps all.
I would apply my logic towards all religions. So all citizens would be equally treated in my country. [Post edited 22 Feb 2016 11:27]
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 12:05 - Feb 22 with 2446 views | trampie |
Clamping down on religious people and not clamping down on non religious people is not treating people equally.
Britain is not a secular state.
You cant equate individuals actions to UK Islam, there are other dangerous individuals out that do not adhere to Islam.
I don't know any Welsh nationalists that believes that some citizens should be free to spread hate.
Free speech is very important and a cornerstone of our society. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 12:28 - Feb 22 with 2436 views | Kerouac |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 12:05 - Feb 22 by trampie |
Clamping down on religious people and not clamping down on non religious people is not treating people equally.
Britain is not a secular state.
You cant equate individuals actions to UK Islam, there are other dangerous individuals out that do not adhere to Islam.
I don't know any Welsh nationalists that believes that some citizens should be free to spread hate.
Free speech is very important and a cornerstone of our society. |
You are so fukking stupid it defies belief, really it does.
Yes Britain is not a secular state. I am proposing that we make it one.
"Clamping down on religious people and not clamping down on non religious people is not treating people equally."
- Yes it is. All should be treated equally under the EXISTING law. No special rules for religious people putting them above the law.
Non-religious people are not allowed to use hate speech or make 2nd class citizens of women in their businesses and institutions, SO NEITHER SHOULD RELIGIOUS PEOPLE.
"You cant equate individuals actions to UK Islam, there are other dangerous individuals out that do not adhere to Islam."
- Yes I can. Islam is an ideology that tells it's followers what to think, what is permissable and what is not. As do other religions.
Therefore the religion is responsible for what it's followers get up to in the name of Islam.
All dangerous individuals breaking the law in the UK is answerable to the UK state.
If any organization has members/followers in large numbers committing murder and breaking the law in all kinds of ways THE ORGANIZATION IS ALSO RESPONSIBLE.
Germans carried out the holocaust. The Nazi party was also responsible, more responsible in most people's view.
They spread hatred, they brainwashed children. The Nazi party acted like a religion in many ways with Hitler as the messiah/caliph/prophet.
"I don't know any Welsh nationalists that believes that some citizens should be free to spread hate.
Free speech is very important and a cornerstone of our society.
- YOU are arguing that we shouldn't clamp down on hate speech in churches/synagogues/mosques. Bugging them (the only way you can be sure that the line is being towed), regulating them, forcing them to obey the same rules as the rest of society (e.g. equality of the sexes) = persecuting them in your book
Have you read the Koran Tramp?
The Sirah?
The Hadith?
Mein Kampf?
The Bible?
Why do you think that everywhere there is Islam there is Islamic terrorism but the same is not true for Christians, Hindus, Jews, Bhuddists etc.?
Has the thought never occurred to you that there is an obvious correlation? | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:05 - Feb 22 with 2413 views | trampie |
You want special rules to bug one group and not bug another group.
Nobody is allowed to use hate speech.
All religions that I am aware of tell people what to think.
If religion is responsible for how people interpret it then where does that leave the Jews in the occupied territories and where does that leave Christians when it comes to American overseas policy or Brits when it comes to the British Empire.
I'm not arguing we should clamp down on hate speech at all, people have to be treated equally.
Other religions have caused issues not just the one you are pointing your finger at, both World wars were fought in the main by the Worlds leading Christian nations. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:42 - Feb 22 with 2415 views | Kerouac |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 13:05 - Feb 22 by trampie |
You want special rules to bug one group and not bug another group.
Nobody is allowed to use hate speech.
All religions that I am aware of tell people what to think.
If religion is responsible for how people interpret it then where does that leave the Jews in the occupied territories and where does that leave Christians when it comes to American overseas policy or Brits when it comes to the British Empire.
I'm not arguing we should clamp down on hate speech at all, people have to be treated equally.
Other religions have caused issues not just the one you are pointing your finger at, both World wars were fought in the main by the Worlds leading Christian nations. |
1) "You want special rules to bug one group and not bug another group."
- No. I'd bug anywhere where there is suspected hate speech being promoted. This will mean more mosques and madrassas than other institutions...that is because these are places where our terrorist problem is being fermented. You do want to deal with our terrorist problem don't you tramp? How do you propose to do so.
2) "Nobody is allowed to use hate speech."
- Agreed.
3) "All religions that I am aware of tell people what to think."
- Yes, I said that. This is why they bare some responsibility for any religious war waged by their followers. Clearly.
4) "If religion is responsible for how people interpret it then where does that leave the Jews in the occupied territories and where does that leave Christians when it comes to American overseas policy or Brits when it comes to the British Empire."
Jews - You are talking about Israel right? You know, that place that was the Jewish homeland, where they had temples and worshipped their God before Islam even existed....you recognise that description right?
They were driven off the land in large numbers by the Romans. Though a Jewish population always remained there in THEIR HOLY LAND whilst being persecuted disgustingly by moslems for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Following the holocaust and centuries of persecution wherever they went a number of Jews decided that it was time to go back home and fight for their scrap of land.
A cause that they were successful in. I hope the Kurds too manage to finally get their own scrap of land.
Islam came after Israel. Muhammed claimed that he hailed from the same tradition and was the final prophet from God, thus replacing Judaism. For Islam it is for the Jews to convert. He even stuck in some passages to try and link him to Jerusalem involving Abraham and Jesus....to demonstrate that he was from the same tradition and their heir.
This led to the claim that Jerusalem is a holy city for Islam (the 3rd holiest)....are you getting this. This was about conquest...from the beginning. Convert or die. Your holy City is now our holy city and we must have access to it.
I'm on the side of the Jews in that particular argument. The behaviour of Muhammed and Islam doesn't sit right for me.
When Israel was being reformed in the 40s a 2 state solution was offered to the Palestinians. They rejected it.
They rejected it because they didn't and still don't think the Jews have any right to be there....which is the same position as all Islamic states.
A QUITE OUTSTANDING CONCLUSION GIVEN THAT THE JEWS WERE THERE FIRST AND MUHAMMED TRIED TO APE JUDAISM IN THE BEGINNING, USING TALES FROM THE TORAH.
This is a psychiatrists dream. On some level all Muslims must deep down inside realise that Muhammed was trying to build an Arab monotheistic religion to replace Judaism in the region which descended into extreme violence and conquest when it was rejected.
Hence all the rage against the Jews.
back to the point....Jews in America don't do terrorism.
Jews in the UK don't do terrorism.
Jews in Europe don't do terrorism.
If they did then we would have to bug the synagogues also, but they don't. They never have.
They try to assimilate and practice their religion privately in peace. For hundreds of years this has been so.
They were driven to reform the state of Israel by events that were devastating to them.
Can you, or anyone else, say that in the same position you wouldn't too have been a supporter of Israel?
(You certainly can't Tramp as you are a nationalist)
Christians (in America) - America is not a theocracy. There are many lobbies and interest groups involved in American politics. Many races and nationalities represented in the population. Many religions too.
Christians do not decide American overseas policy do they Tramp?
Otherwise why has the US supported so many Muslems? (80s Afghanistan, Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Eqypt?
Christian Brits (British Empire) - Again, it wasn't about religion. It was about money.
5) "I'm not arguing we should clamp down on hate speech at all, people have to be treated equally. "
I know you are not and that is wrong. People do need to be treated equally. Nobody is above the law. Non Muslim citizens need to be protected from Islamic terrorism....for that matter other countries citizens need to be protected from them too. We are responsible for what goes on in our country. We are responsible for Islamic terrorism if we allow mosques and madrassas to ferment it.
6) "Other religions have caused issues not just the one you are pointing your finger at, both World wars were fought in the main by the Worlds leading Christian nations."
That is besides the point.
Are Buddhists comitting terrorist acts in this country right now? No.
Are the Jews? No.
Are the Hindus? No.
Are the Sikhs? No.
Are the Christians? No.
etc.
British citizens who are Muslem are committing terrorist acts, MURDER, both here and abroad. We are responsible for stopping it.
I couldn't give a fukk who that makes uncomfortable.
That's reality. | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 15:22 - Feb 22 with 2390 views | perchrockjack |
All I will add, as Ive said before ISRAEL is not sponsoring nor sponsoring terrorists out to all corners of the world to blow both themselves and others to pieces.
The elimination of ISRAEL is fundamental to most arab countries as it is to the LEFT ,like Corbyn.
Religion has always been a problem throughout history but now it really is ISLAM which is pre eminent in terror.
I can really add to Kerouac s demolition of trampie | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 17:16 - Feb 22 with 2357 views | trampie |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 14:42 - Feb 22 by Kerouac |
1) "You want special rules to bug one group and not bug another group."
- No. I'd bug anywhere where there is suspected hate speech being promoted. This will mean more mosques and madrassas than other institutions...that is because these are places where our terrorist problem is being fermented. You do want to deal with our terrorist problem don't you tramp? How do you propose to do so.
2) "Nobody is allowed to use hate speech."
- Agreed.
3) "All religions that I am aware of tell people what to think."
- Yes, I said that. This is why they bare some responsibility for any religious war waged by their followers. Clearly.
4) "If religion is responsible for how people interpret it then where does that leave the Jews in the occupied territories and where does that leave Christians when it comes to American overseas policy or Brits when it comes to the British Empire."
Jews - You are talking about Israel right? You know, that place that was the Jewish homeland, where they had temples and worshipped their God before Islam even existed....you recognise that description right?
They were driven off the land in large numbers by the Romans. Though a Jewish population always remained there in THEIR HOLY LAND whilst being persecuted disgustingly by moslems for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Following the holocaust and centuries of persecution wherever they went a number of Jews decided that it was time to go back home and fight for their scrap of land.
A cause that they were successful in. I hope the Kurds too manage to finally get their own scrap of land.
Islam came after Israel. Muhammed claimed that he hailed from the same tradition and was the final prophet from God, thus replacing Judaism. For Islam it is for the Jews to convert. He even stuck in some passages to try and link him to Jerusalem involving Abraham and Jesus....to demonstrate that he was from the same tradition and their heir.
This led to the claim that Jerusalem is a holy city for Islam (the 3rd holiest)....are you getting this. This was about conquest...from the beginning. Convert or die. Your holy City is now our holy city and we must have access to it.
I'm on the side of the Jews in that particular argument. The behaviour of Muhammed and Islam doesn't sit right for me.
When Israel was being reformed in the 40s a 2 state solution was offered to the Palestinians. They rejected it.
They rejected it because they didn't and still don't think the Jews have any right to be there....which is the same position as all Islamic states.
A QUITE OUTSTANDING CONCLUSION GIVEN THAT THE JEWS WERE THERE FIRST AND MUHAMMED TRIED TO APE JUDAISM IN THE BEGINNING, USING TALES FROM THE TORAH.
This is a psychiatrists dream. On some level all Muslims must deep down inside realise that Muhammed was trying to build an Arab monotheistic religion to replace Judaism in the region which descended into extreme violence and conquest when it was rejected.
Hence all the rage against the Jews.
back to the point....Jews in America don't do terrorism.
Jews in the UK don't do terrorism.
Jews in Europe don't do terrorism.
If they did then we would have to bug the synagogues also, but they don't. They never have.
They try to assimilate and practice their religion privately in peace. For hundreds of years this has been so.
They were driven to reform the state of Israel by events that were devastating to them.
Can you, or anyone else, say that in the same position you wouldn't too have been a supporter of Israel?
(You certainly can't Tramp as you are a nationalist)
Christians (in America) - America is not a theocracy. There are many lobbies and interest groups involved in American politics. Many races and nationalities represented in the population. Many religions too.
Christians do not decide American overseas policy do they Tramp?
Otherwise why has the US supported so many Muslems? (80s Afghanistan, Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Eqypt?
Christian Brits (British Empire) - Again, it wasn't about religion. It was about money.
5) "I'm not arguing we should clamp down on hate speech at all, people have to be treated equally. "
I know you are not and that is wrong. People do need to be treated equally. Nobody is above the law. Non Muslim citizens need to be protected from Islamic terrorism....for that matter other countries citizens need to be protected from them too. We are responsible for what goes on in our country. We are responsible for Islamic terrorism if we allow mosques and madrassas to ferment it.
6) "Other religions have caused issues not just the one you are pointing your finger at, both World wars were fought in the main by the Worlds leading Christian nations."
That is besides the point.
Are Buddhists comitting terrorist acts in this country right now? No.
Are the Jews? No.
Are the Hindus? No.
Are the Sikhs? No.
Are the Christians? No.
etc.
British citizens who are Muslem are committing terrorist acts, MURDER, both here and abroad. We are responsible for stopping it.
I couldn't give a fukk who that makes uncomfortable.
That's reality. |
I smell a rat, I thought it strange why you mentioned Homosexuals and Jews in the first place.
I tell you there are dangerous people of other faiths not just some Muslims and give Christians in the World wars and Jews in the occupied territories as examples and you go ranting about Jews this and Jews that.
Like I say I smell a rat.
Do you think the Jews are persecuted and others not ?
If so why do you think the Jews are persecuted ?, if not why do certain people seem to go off about it all the time that they are ?
Do you think Jews are a chosen people and others not ?
Haven't there always been Arabs and others in Judea ? [or was it a Jewish only zone ?]
Do you think its right that Israel breaks international law by ignoring UN sanctions ?
Isn't it against all human rights that Israel has turned Gaza into a Ghetto ?
What side were most Jews on in WW1 ?
Didn't some Zionists agree with Hitler and see Britain as the enemy due to Hitler's support for a homeland ?
Jewish terrorists killed British people in Palestine resulting in riots over what the Jewish terrorists had done in places like Liverpool and South Wales.
Why did the English kick the Jews out of the country back in the day ? | |
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| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 19:38 - Feb 22 with 2326 views | Kerouac |
| Moslems really are the grumpiest people on earth..... on 17:16 - Feb 22 by trampie |
I smell a rat, I thought it strange why you mentioned Homosexuals and Jews in the first place.
I tell you there are dangerous people of other faiths not just some Muslims and give Christians in the World wars and Jews in the occupied territories as examples and you go ranting about Jews this and Jews that.
Like I say I smell a rat.
Do you think the Jews are persecuted and others not ?
If so why do you think the Jews are persecuted ?, if not why do certain people seem to go off about it all the time that they are ?
Do you think Jews are a chosen people and others not ?
Haven't there always been Arabs and others in Judea ? [or was it a Jewish only zone ?]
Do you think its right that Israel breaks international law by ignoring UN sanctions ?
Isn't it against all human rights that Israel has turned Gaza into a Ghetto ?
What side were most Jews on in WW1 ?
Didn't some Zionists agree with Hitler and see Britain as the enemy due to Hitler's support for a homeland ?
Jewish terrorists killed British people in Palestine resulting in riots over what the Jewish terrorists had done in places like Liverpool and South Wales.
Why did the English kick the Jews out of the country back in the day ? |
Hey Tramp check your pants.
I am not Jewish.
I am Welsh with a great big dollop of Irish.
I was raised a Catholic and rejected it, I rejected it when I was 12. (Even a child can see through the great big lie that is religion).
I am an atheist.
I'm just well read and can see the World straight.
Where are the people queuing up to call Tramp an anti-semite? 
I fukking love what passes for left wing politics in Wales these days.
Queuing up to support people who would subjugate them, strip women of all their rights and impose Sharia.
Meanwhile their pet sport is picking apart the Jews.
No wonder UK Muslims feel at home in that party.
Shameful. | |
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