| Are we ever going to own our ground? 10:24 - Jun 19 with 15671 views | daledaledale |
Ten months on since Keith Hill announced the football club were trying to buy Spotland stadium. Does anyone know if we are any closer to completing the sale?
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 15:30 - Jun 19 with 2672 views | dingdangblue |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 14:51 - Jun 19 by 1mark1 |
Indeed they have over the years, but they obviously think that they have to get the best deal for the tax payer now unlike over the years when administrations of all political colours have wasted money.
I am not a Labour supporter, so I am not supporting or opposing the council either way, just stating the facts regarding the hold up on the transfer of the ownership of the ground.
As a Dale fan I want us to own the ground out right, but as a council tax payer I don't see why a professional club should get what would in effect be a tax break, especially when really important critical services are struggling, IF the Council did not get all the money still owed to it. [Post edited 19 Jun 2015 14:54]
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On one hand I agree with you but it is a tricky situation with a Town football club - especially a town like Rochdale and all its recent bad press - the football club under Keith Hill has brough nothing but good press and is something to be proud of. I know its run as a business but it also brings thousands of supporters to the area every year - cant think of any other businesses in Rochdale that do such? The town are so lucky to have a professional football club in the Football League - just ask Halifax,Stockport,Wrexham and Chester. The current situation cant go on with the Stadium Company not fit for purpose. |  |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:19 - Jun 19 with 2601 views | 442Dale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 11:39 - Jun 19 by SuddenLad |
RAFC and RMBC have both previously made statements that 'negotiations are ongoing, but are at a delicate stage' .
If there's no further progress, there's no point in making pointless statements.
At the last Council meeting where the matter was fully discussed, the public were barred from attending and the meeting was effectively held 'in secret'.
I have no idea what the secrecy is all about, but they cited 'sensitive commercial information' as the reason. |
When was that Council meeting?
A timeline of events for reference.
This was from last September:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/rochdale-chairman-says-spo
" I am, however, now giving notice that Rochdale AFC may well have to call shareholders to an EGM (extraordinary general meeting) at which the full story of the Stadium saga will be told in detail. It will also allow members to discuss, and if needed, vote on any matters arising that may affect the future of the club in relation to Spotland Stadium."
Notice was given in November of that EGM, to take place the following month.
http://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/article/notice-of-egm-2094324.aspx
It stated this was: "To inform Shareholders as to the up to date position with regard to matters concerning Denehurst Park (Rochdale) Limited {the Stadium Company} and to canvass their views in conjunction with the Board of Directors as to the way forward."
In December the EGM was postponed.
http://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/article/egm-postponed-2147221.aspx
In March from Trust members questions to the board:
http://daletrust.com/news/?p=2098
"Question 2
What’s the current situation with the Stadium Company? Is a shareholders EGM still planned?
Answer 2
Negotiations continue, and the Directors advised that negotiations have never been as far advanced as they are currently. As shown on the Hornets web site (news item 19 December 2014), they have voted in favour of the sale of shares currently held by the RFL and Rochdale Council to the Football Club, should these parties agree. It has to be appreciated, however, that negotiations in such matters are delicate, and general release of fuller details as to the stage currently reached could prove negative. An EGM is still planned to provide shareholders with details of any agreement reached to gain their approval." |  |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:55 - Jun 19 with 2535 views | dingdangblue |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 16:19 - Jun 19 by 442Dale |
When was that Council meeting?
A timeline of events for reference.
This was from last September:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/rochdale-chairman-says-spo
" I am, however, now giving notice that Rochdale AFC may well have to call shareholders to an EGM (extraordinary general meeting) at which the full story of the Stadium saga will be told in detail. It will also allow members to discuss, and if needed, vote on any matters arising that may affect the future of the club in relation to Spotland Stadium."
Notice was given in November of that EGM, to take place the following month.
http://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/article/notice-of-egm-2094324.aspx
It stated this was: "To inform Shareholders as to the up to date position with regard to matters concerning Denehurst Park (Rochdale) Limited {the Stadium Company} and to canvass their views in conjunction with the Board of Directors as to the way forward."
In December the EGM was postponed.
http://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/article/egm-postponed-2147221.aspx
In March from Trust members questions to the board:
http://daletrust.com/news/?p=2098
"Question 2
What’s the current situation with the Stadium Company? Is a shareholders EGM still planned?
Answer 2
Negotiations continue, and the Directors advised that negotiations have never been as far advanced as they are currently. As shown on the Hornets web site (news item 19 December 2014), they have voted in favour of the sale of shares currently held by the RFL and Rochdale Council to the Football Club, should these parties agree. It has to be appreciated, however, that negotiations in such matters are delicate, and general release of fuller details as to the stage currently reached could prove negative. An EGM is still planned to provide shareholders with details of any agreement reached to gain their approval." |
This meeting?
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/rochdale/forum/141732/stadium-co/#0 | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:09 - Jun 19 with 2502 views | Shun |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 11:18 - Jun 19 by 1mark1 |
The deal will be done when Rochdale AFC agree to pay the required amount of money to Rochdale MBC in a way that is acceptable to RMBC.. |
I bet we tried the old 'half a dozen wheelbarrows full of pennies' trick, didn't we? |  | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:31 - Jun 19 with 2452 views | dingdangblue |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:09 - Jun 19 by Shun |
I bet we tried the old 'half a dozen wheelbarrows full of pennies' trick, didn't we? |
Not sure if you read this story or just coincidence.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-33146115 [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 0:01]
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:46 - Jun 19 with 2435 views | MoonyDale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 14:51 - Jun 19 by 1mark1 |
Indeed they have over the years, but they obviously think that they have to get the best deal for the tax payer now unlike over the years when administrations of all political colours have wasted money.
I am not a Labour supporter, so I am not supporting or opposing the council either way, just stating the facts regarding the hold up on the transfer of the ownership of the ground.
As a Dale fan I want us to own the ground out right, but as a council tax payer I don't see why a professional club should get what would in effect be a tax break, especially when really important critical services are struggling, IF the Council did not get all the money still owed to it. [Post edited 19 Jun 2015 14:54]
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That is worded like it's the football club who owe the 600k debt when in fact it's the stad co that owe the money, the council cannot hold the football club to ransom because a third party owe money to them. How stupid would they look if the stad co goes tits up and they get 10p in the £1 off the debt? |  |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:54 - Jun 19 with 2417 views | 49thseason |
The problem is that the longer the deal remains on the table the more debts are being accumulated by the stadium company and being underwritten by the council.
I don't expect that anything was achieved during the election period and now people will be taking holidays etc. So I would expect it will be the end of August before any more meetings are scheduled.
I can't imagine that RMBC will not be keen to find a solution given that they are looking for another £15m of savings . |  | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:27 - Jun 19 with 2365 views | 1mark1 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:46 - Jun 19 by MoonyDale |
That is worded like it's the football club who owe the 600k debt when in fact it's the stad co that owe the money, the council cannot hold the football club to ransom because a third party owe money to them. How stupid would they look if the stad co goes tits up and they get 10p in the £1 off the debt? |
No RAFC don't owe the debt , but the debt is part of the deal, and has to be cleared, for the deal to be done. As I understand, when businesses are sold , debts, belonging to that business form part of that, and in this case there is a debt in the SC which is owed to RMBC.
I accept that that could be an option re letting the SC go bust, but I don't know if it would work, or be in the interests of everyone.
I am unaware of how much of the total debt and on what terms RMBC are insisting on being paid, and therefore I am can't say if they have been fair or unfair in what they are demanding for the purchase. |  |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:34 - Jun 19 with 2342 views | D_Alien |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:46 - Jun 19 by MoonyDale |
That is worded like it's the football club who owe the 600k debt when in fact it's the stad co that owe the money, the council cannot hold the football club to ransom because a third party owe money to them. How stupid would they look if the stad co goes tits up and they get 10p in the £1 off the debt? |
Not sure they can look any more stupid than they already do?
The people in charge of the towns finances have about as much clue as the likes of Dale23years and Parkins Gimp.
Near where I live, a team of contractors have been paid to repaint railings belonging to RMBC. the work is completely unnecessary, having last been done less than three years ago, and the rate at which the work is being carried out is an absolute joke. Meanwhile (as 1Mark1 says) there are vital services being cut elsewhere. I contacted the council and enquired if the work was being done by mistake, and asked why my council tax was being wasted in this way, but got no reply.
If this is the level of competence and communication the Dale board are having to put up with, we really are in for a long wait. |  |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:38 - Jun 19 with 2331 views | 1mark1 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 17:54 - Jun 19 by 49thseason |
The problem is that the longer the deal remains on the table the more debts are being accumulated by the stadium company and being underwritten by the council.
I don't expect that anything was achieved during the election period and now people will be taking holidays etc. So I would expect it will be the end of August before any more meetings are scheduled.
I can't imagine that RMBC will not be keen to find a solution given that they are looking for another £15m of savings . |
Very true.
RMBC are very keen to see a deal done, as they need the money. | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:42 - Jun 19 with 2315 views | 442Dale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:38 - Jun 19 by 1mark1 |
Very true.
RMBC are very keen to see a deal done, as they need the money. |
And Dale want the stadium. The frustrating thing is this thread will disappear off the front page in a day or two, and then a similar thread will appear a month or two down the line. | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:50 - Jun 19 with 2293 views | 1mark1 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:42 - Jun 19 by 442Dale |
And Dale want the stadium. The frustrating thing is this thread will disappear off the front page in a day or two, and then a similar thread will appear a month or two down the line. |
Very true.
This is as frustrating as waiting to sign a player, or wanting a palyer come back from injury, but in my opinion even more important. If we own the ground we will end up better off, in my opinion.
No idea who is in the wrong for the deal not going trough, if at all anyone, but for the good of us Dale fans and the good of us council tax payers I hope the deal is done as quickly as possible, in a way that is a good deal for BOTH Dale and RMBC. | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:59 - Jun 19 with 2274 views | mingthemerciless |
Maybe I'm stupid but why will actually owning the ground automatically turn it into a licence to print money ? | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:01 - Jun 19 with 2271 views | ColDale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:27 - Jun 19 by 1mark1 |
No RAFC don't owe the debt , but the debt is part of the deal, and has to be cleared, for the deal to be done. As I understand, when businesses are sold , debts, belonging to that business form part of that, and in this case there is a debt in the SC which is owed to RMBC.
I accept that that could be an option re letting the SC go bust, but I don't know if it would work, or be in the interests of everyone.
I am unaware of how much of the total debt and on what terms RMBC are insisting on being paid, and therefore I am can't say if they have been fair or unfair in what they are demanding for the purchase. |
If the council are wanting full repayment of that debt, then they are asking for too much. I don't recall anyone stepping in when the debts were accrued by the Stadium Company following sustained (historical) periods of non payment of rent by Hornets. It's been left to us to deal with, and with no hope whatsoever of getting a single penny of it back. Yet still we are happy to allow the new Rochdale Hornets to play at Spotland.
The investment/loan by the Council that exists was done so on the basis of two sporting teams being able to repay it. Again, the financial failure of the rugby team leaves us in the lurch, with the Council seemingly failing to take this into consideration, yet insists that same rugby team must continue playing at the ground as part of any deal.
Perhaps the Council should appreciate that the football club are a shining beacon in an otherwise shower of shite, and have brought more good PR to the town, more joy to its council tax payers (admittedly not all of them) and more job opportunities for the talented youngsters of the town than any council of any party in living memory.
Personally, I reckon the bods at the council have seen the sales of Hogan and Done and have got pound signs in their eyes. It's not about wanting a handout from the council (wouldn't want that), but its about not punishing the club for the debts of the rugby club when they only have the best interests of the stadium and local sport at heart. |  | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:06 - Jun 19 with 2255 views | 1mark1 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:59 - Jun 19 by mingthemerciless |
Maybe I'm stupid but why will actually owning the ground automatically turn it into a licence to print money ? |
No, it wouldn't but seeing as though Dale pay for everything now, they might as well as own the whole stadium, and use the rent from outsiders like the Rugby club and any other tenants or bookings for the stadium for the stadium and or club. [Post edited 19 Jun 2015 19:18]
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:17 - Jun 19 with 2219 views | 1mark1 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:01 - Jun 19 by ColDale |
If the council are wanting full repayment of that debt, then they are asking for too much. I don't recall anyone stepping in when the debts were accrued by the Stadium Company following sustained (historical) periods of non payment of rent by Hornets. It's been left to us to deal with, and with no hope whatsoever of getting a single penny of it back. Yet still we are happy to allow the new Rochdale Hornets to play at Spotland.
The investment/loan by the Council that exists was done so on the basis of two sporting teams being able to repay it. Again, the financial failure of the rugby team leaves us in the lurch, with the Council seemingly failing to take this into consideration, yet insists that same rugby team must continue playing at the ground as part of any deal.
Perhaps the Council should appreciate that the football club are a shining beacon in an otherwise shower of shite, and have brought more good PR to the town, more joy to its council tax payers (admittedly not all of them) and more job opportunities for the talented youngsters of the town than any council of any party in living memory.
Personally, I reckon the bods at the council have seen the sales of Hogan and Done and have got pound signs in their eyes. It's not about wanting a handout from the council (wouldn't want that), but its about not punishing the club for the debts of the rugby club when they only have the best interests of the stadium and local sport at heart. |
I agree with all of that. Sadly though, the Stadium company allowed that Rugby club to get away with not paying their way at certain times, and the SC's debt is what it. Does anyone know how much of the total debt the council want paying off, and how much the total debt is?
I am not arsed whether the rugby club play at Spotland or not, though I suppose if they are made to pay any money due on time it will be useful to have the income, as to be on a pay per play basis to make sure they do pay though.
The debt is not RAFC's , the RFL or RMBC, but it is the SC's debt, and it should have been the SC making the partners pay up any debts they owed. | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:53 - Jun 19 with 2151 views | mingthemerciless |
Can you substantiate your statement that " the football club pay for everything now " ? | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:57 - Jun 19 with 2139 views | DomDale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 18:59 - Jun 19 by mingthemerciless |
Maybe I'm stupid but why will actually owning the ground automatically turn it into a licence to print money ? |
Not a licence to print money but certainly scope to catch up with the rest of the FL. Sponsorship of the ground being one lucrative example. The Crown Oil superdome or other such name will bring in revenue where we currently have none. |  |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:57 - Jun 19 with 2135 views | dingdangblue |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:53 - Jun 19 by mingthemerciless |
Can you substantiate your statement that " the football club pay for everything now " ? |
Pitch relaying, pitch covers, new floodlights, groundsman ? | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 20:02 - Jun 19 with 2127 views | 1mark1 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:53 - Jun 19 by mingthemerciless |
Can you substantiate your statement that " the football club pay for everything now " ? |
OK just to make you happoy,
I would no be surprised that the Dale pay for everything towards the ground now, while the other tenant probably pays fook all apart from the rent it owes. | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 22:21 - Jun 19 with 1992 views | TVOS1907 |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:53 - Jun 19 by mingthemerciless |
Can you substantiate your statement that " the football club pay for everything now " ? |
Maybe he should have removed 'now'. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 23:04 - Jun 19 with 1939 views | mingthemerciless |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 19:57 - Jun 19 by dingdangblue |
Pitch relaying, pitch covers, new floodlights, groundsman ? |
If we're being picky Hornets don't really need the pitch relaying. Last time I saw it it was fine. Don't really need the pitch covers as Rugby League is a summer game. So i've never actually seen these covers in action. Ditto to a great extent the new floodlights , I can't really remember the last time I saw them on at a game for any length of time. Yes we need a groundsman. When ever I saw the last one at a game he wandered around with his fork in one hand and his mobile phone in the other. Maybe Hornets hadn't paid him so he just used his ' Dale hand for the fork. | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 23:08 - Jun 19 with 1928 views | 442Dale |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 23:04 - Jun 19 by mingthemerciless |
If we're being picky Hornets don't really need the pitch relaying. Last time I saw it it was fine. Don't really need the pitch covers as Rugby League is a summer game. So i've never actually seen these covers in action. Ditto to a great extent the new floodlights , I can't really remember the last time I saw them on at a game for any length of time. Yes we need a groundsman. When ever I saw the last one at a game he wandered around with his fork in one hand and his mobile phone in the other. Maybe Hornets hadn't paid him so he just used his ' Dale hand for the fork. |
But the pitch wouldn't be as good next year if it wasn't worked on. | |
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| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 23:23 - Jun 19 with 1903 views | Shun |
Link not found! | | | |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 23:43 - Jun 19 with 1879 views | KenBoon |
| Are we ever going to own our ground? on 23:04 - Jun 19 by mingthemerciless |
If we're being picky Hornets don't really need the pitch relaying. Last time I saw it it was fine. Don't really need the pitch covers as Rugby League is a summer game. So i've never actually seen these covers in action. Ditto to a great extent the new floodlights , I can't really remember the last time I saw them on at a game for any length of time. Yes we need a groundsman. When ever I saw the last one at a game he wandered around with his fork in one hand and his mobile phone in the other. Maybe Hornets hadn't paid him so he just used his ' Dale hand for the fork. |
They do need the covers. You had a game postponed earlier in the year because they weren't used.
I'm sure some of those early and late season games need Floodlights - or even summer ones when it's v cloudy.
They do need pitch work. I believe Hornets have had games postponed for waterlogging. Imagine how many they'd be with worse drainage. Whilst mud won't stop them playing, an uneven surface would.
Every bit of work that's gone into the pitch and floodlights has also benefited Hornets. Your summer game lasts about 8 months? Summer in Rochdale 'aint 8 months. |  | | |
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