| Europe in or out 11:22 - May 12 with 7892 views | runningman75 |
So the Tories want to bring the EU referendum forward until 2016. I am personally in favour of remaining in the EU. The EU is not perfect but worried about us becoming little Britain or England/Wales/ Northern Ireland in the case of Scottish independence. |  | | |  |
| Europe in or out on 23:16 - May 12 with 1728 views | PunteR |
| Europe in or out on 23:08 - May 12 by TheBlob |
Quantitive Easing has further f*cked things.They floode the market with cheap cash which was supposed to be disbursed at zero interest rates and all the banks have done is sat on the amounts and refused to release it.We're unofficially in a recession.
All it needs is one spark,some nation to default on loans or something and then you'll get Robert F*cking Peston interviewing lines of punters outside Barclays et al frantically trying to withdraw their money.
If you thought the last crash was bad - you ain't seen nuthin' yet. |
Double dip recession? . We've got the 2nd one coming you mean blob? |  |
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| Europe in or out on 23:19 - May 12 with 1717 views | TheBlob |
| Europe in or out on 23:16 - May 12 by PunteR |
Double dip recession? . We've got the 2nd one coming you mean blob? |
Yarp. |  |
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| Europe in or out on 01:33 - May 13 with 1673 views | Jigsore |
if you lot are voting out then at the very least wait until i've finished my degree so I can f*ck off to the mainland before we electrify the white cliffs of Dover |  |
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| Europe in or out on 08:20 - May 13 with 1612 views | derbyhoop |
| Europe in or out on 22:46 - May 12 by richpr |
we import more from Europe than we export - they need us more than we need them - if they tax our trade with Europe- we tax their trade with us. Less BMWs, Mercedes and Renaults. If it means less economic immigrants from Rumania then it might give the youth of today a chance. Nobody has persuaded me yet that EU immigrants are good for the UK economy. They just keep wages down. Yes - they work hard but cant see where they pay much tax (10k allowance before tax paid) and the strain they put on local infrastructure (doctors, hospitals, housingetc.) is astronomical. Last time I went to hospital and doctors 50% were eastern european. Those working especially in the building trade avoid tax and send their money home.
Just watching Newsnight and the EEC are terrified of the UK exiting their unelected club as we are a major net contributor |
Your initial assessment advocates a spiral of decline - as suggested by R_from_afar's earlier post on this thread.
As to immigration, the biggest influx in the last year was not from Bulgaria or Romania, but from Italy.
In my last contract, our team of about 40 people included Italian, Spanish, Portugese, Bulgarian, Irish and Sri Lankan.
Prior to that, the previous one included Lithuanian, Russian, Brazilian, Spanish, Polish, French and loads of Irish. But it was in Dublin, so the last part is understandable. |  |
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Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Europe in or out on 10:11 - May 13 with 1573 views | Toast_R |
F*ck Europe, let's leave the chirade.
We liberated Europe from Nazi tyranny and gave it back to them. The question shouldn't be should we stay with Europe? It should be, should Europe stay with us?
I see members economies crashing, governments losing all respectability and Germany getting a tighter grip on the whole thing. We are best off doing what has served us so well in the past, looking after our own needs and doing it our own way. |  | | |
| Europe in or out on 10:19 - May 13 with 1571 views | THEBUSH |
| Europe in or out on 10:11 - May 13 by Toast_R |
F*ck Europe, let's leave the chirade.
We liberated Europe from Nazi tyranny and gave it back to them. The question shouldn't be should we stay with Europe? It should be, should Europe stay with us?
I see members economies crashing, governments losing all respectability and Germany getting a tighter grip on the whole thing. We are best off doing what has served us so well in the past, looking after our own needs and doing it our own way. |
I hope not, thousands if not millions of Brits depend on work in Europe, me included. |  | | |
| Europe in or out on 10:28 - May 13 with 1561 views | batmanhoop |
| Europe in or out on 21:20 - May 12 by hopphoops |
Technically speaking, I made that up  |
technically speaking hoophoops I'd guess the Brits working abroad run into 100,000's, not even a million. Most have retired and are not looking for work. Just as well with the basket cases that are in Southern Europe  | | | |
| Europe in or out on 10:30 - May 13 with 1557 views | TheBlob |
Collectively the EU is still the greatest trading power in the world but it's coming apart at the seams like a cheap suit.The Chinese are on the march,Russia not far behind.Asset rich China is buying everything up,from seaports in Canada and New Zealand to mineral rights in Australia.Frankfurt has opened up an RMB clearing hub,London has followed suit.Wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Yuan as top reserve currency one day.
edit.too many suit references there Blob. [Post edited 13 May 2015 10:33]
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| Europe in or out on 11:10 - May 13 with 1523 views | hopphoops |
| Europe in or out on 10:28 - May 13 by batmanhoop |
technically speaking hoophoops I'd guess the Brits working abroad run into 100,000's, not even a million. Most have retired and are not looking for work. Just as well with the basket cases that are in Southern Europe |
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cd640f6-9025-11e3-a776-00144feab7de.html#axzz3a0hMDJz
this suggests about 1million + Brits working in the EU and 2million+ EU citizens working in the UK - somewhere in between our guesses :)
About the earlier poster re the Swiss approach to freedom of movement, Switzerland has treaties on this and other stuff directly with the EU i.e. it can't sign an agreement directly with France but not with Bulgaria. So a UK outside the EU could not I believe 'cherry pick' bilateral deals with individual EU members on areas of EU competence.
Switzerland in fact has thousands of agreements with the EU. The question is whether to work on improving the benefits to the UK of membership, or leaving and start again from scratch. The latter would probably cost more in terms of bureaucratic effort but give a veneer of accountability.
In the meantime all sorts of people would be impacted - when the Swiss voted by referendum to put quotas on the numbers of workers from EU countries, other European countries threatened to send home hundreds of Swiss Erasmus students home as they considered the relevant treaty had been torn up. The Swiss government is still looking for ways to pretend the referendum never happened... |  |
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| Europe in or out on 11:30 - May 13 with 1502 views | Discodroids |
until we can get a proper englishman in to take charge of things and make those oily ticks hop to it, i want no part of it..
only a englishman in hackett underpants and who has been discovered with rent boys and indulging in acts "too disgusting to be described in a family newspaper', has the credentials to grasp the captains wheel in these choppy dago filled waters.
i would therefore tender my credentials, such as they are, to represent the good people of north chingford in that Brussels whoopsie house of used condoms, amy nitrate and congac. |  |
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| Europe in or out (n/t) on 15:26 - May 13 with 1449 views | Discodroids |
[Post edited 13 May 2015 15:28]
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Changeable. Alterable. Mutable. Variable. Mouldable. Movable. Fluctuate. Undulate. Flicker. Flutter. Pulsate. Vibrate. Alternate. Plastic. Prog. House. Music. |
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| Europe in or out on 15:39 - May 13 with 1426 views | HollowayRanger |
walked right through wood green hackney Finsbury Holloway this morning apart from most of the signs being in English a stranger wouldn't think it was England ,Im more worried about the middle east invasion more than the European one
went boots the chemist then boots the opticians then lidi ,morrisons then finally dentist
wasn't served by a single English/uk person all either eastern European on middle eastern all doing their jobs well but what the heck happen to the English are they all sitting at home watching sky while claiming benifits |  |
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| Europe in or out on 17:35 - May 13 with 1381 views | CFW |
Out, Out, Out!!!
If we had a referendum tomorrow I would bet my left kidney we would vote to leave. They system is flawed, we older people remember voting to be in the 'Common Market' - a place where well run, strong European Countries got together to make one very much stronger union.
This is fine until you then start to widen the rules and let in Countries that are not well run, have a good balance sheet and are hard working. Then it all goes pete tong because as we have found out to our huge cost the weaker countries all then rely on others.
It makes my foot itch that my Dad fought a war so we could be free and be in charge of our own destiny and live in a free nation. We have now given all that away and are being run by other people. It is a disgrace. Not only that look how much money we spunk each year putting into the fund let alone all the lazy, hangers on who travel to Brussels for a couple of days a week, get paid shed loads of money and rip the ar*e out out their expenses.
Don't bother trying to negotiate tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. How glad are we all that we did not give up the Pound ? | | | |
| Europe in or out on 21:37 - May 13 with 1333 views | HollowayRanger |
id guess the majority of scots welsh and irish living here would vote in as would all the none british Europeans
while the majority of older English voters would vote out
sadly the press will almost certainly all be pro | |
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| Europe in or out on 22:19 - May 13 with 1310 views | QPR_John |
| Europe in or out on 21:37 - May 13 by HollowayRanger |
id guess the majority of scots welsh and irish living here would vote in as would all the none british Europeans
while the majority of older English voters would vote out
sadly the press will almost certainly all be pro |
Why would non British Europeans have a say in whether the UK leaves the EU or not | | | |
| Europe in or out on 01:35 - May 14 with 1259 views | dsr_burnley |
| Europe in or out on 10:19 - May 13 by THEBUSH |
I hope not, thousands if not millions of Brits depend on work in Europe, me included. |
Why should leaving the EU make any difference? I'm very much anti-EU, I think the organisation is anti-democratic and rotten to the core, but if you think they will renege on all their international treaties and stop trade between the EU and the UK, just because they're in a big sulk; then you have a lower opinion of them than I do.
As you may or may not be aware, international treaties are now controlled by the World Trade Organisation. (This system replaced GATT some years back.) The UK is not a member in its own right, because we're in the EU bloc. But if we left, we would join other individual countries like the USA, Canada, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Liechtenstein, etc., etc., as an individual member. The agreements the EU has with them would be equally binding on us.
Secondly, as has already been pointed out, we buy more from them than we sell to them. (These figures include the Japanese cars.) If trade stops between the UK and the EU, our balance of payments improves. The EU voters would not like the idea that all the jobs in the EU that depend on sales to the UK have suddenly been cut off. | | | |
| Europe in or out on 10:15 - May 14 with 1208 views | THEBUSH |
| Europe in or out on 01:35 - May 14 by dsr_burnley |
Why should leaving the EU make any difference? I'm very much anti-EU, I think the organisation is anti-democratic and rotten to the core, but if you think they will renege on all their international treaties and stop trade between the EU and the UK, just because they're in a big sulk; then you have a lower opinion of them than I do.
As you may or may not be aware, international treaties are now controlled by the World Trade Organisation. (This system replaced GATT some years back.) The UK is not a member in its own right, because we're in the EU bloc. But if we left, we would join other individual countries like the USA, Canada, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Liechtenstein, etc., etc., as an individual member. The agreements the EU has with them would be equally binding on us.
Secondly, as has already been pointed out, we buy more from them than we sell to them. (These figures include the Japanese cars.) If trade stops between the UK and the EU, our balance of payments improves. The EU voters would not like the idea that all the jobs in the EU that depend on sales to the UK have suddenly been cut off. |
Have you ever worked in the EU or even outside of the EU ? | | | |
| Europe in or out on 10:46 - May 14 with 1190 views | derbyhoop |
People claim the EU is anti democratic. Don't we vote in European elections, then?
If we do leave, it will cause a great deal of financial uncertainty. Equities will be marked down and there is fair chance that there will be a downturn in all Western European economies. The remaining members of the EU would be quite justified in having the hump with us. That could easily translate into a reluctance to do trade deals with an independent UK. The result would be a fall in UK GDP.
The press and other media will, by and large, advocate remaining in the EU. But that will be nothing compared to the tsunami of endorsements from major businesses. The CBI estimate is that EU membership benefits the UK economy by £74bn per year - even after our contributions to EU finances.
Perhaps I'm looking at it from an unusual point of view. Both my parents were economic migrants into the UK, in the 1940s, I have worked in other EU countries, I work in the IT industry, where freedom of movement is reasonably widely exercised, I am currently living in my house in France, and I can speak enough of the language to understand the issues from a continental viewpoint. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Europe in or out on 11:04 - May 14 with 1174 views | TheBlob |
| Europe in or out on 10:46 - May 14 by derbyhoop |
People claim the EU is anti democratic. Don't we vote in European elections, then?
If we do leave, it will cause a great deal of financial uncertainty. Equities will be marked down and there is fair chance that there will be a downturn in all Western European economies. The remaining members of the EU would be quite justified in having the hump with us. That could easily translate into a reluctance to do trade deals with an independent UK. The result would be a fall in UK GDP.
The press and other media will, by and large, advocate remaining in the EU. But that will be nothing compared to the tsunami of endorsements from major businesses. The CBI estimate is that EU membership benefits the UK economy by £74bn per year - even after our contributions to EU finances.
Perhaps I'm looking at it from an unusual point of view. Both my parents were economic migrants into the UK, in the 1940s, I have worked in other EU countries, I work in the IT industry, where freedom of movement is reasonably widely exercised, I am currently living in my house in France, and I can speak enough of the language to understand the issues from a continental viewpoint. |
France??I thought they were all over here dodging the punitive tax system.
Rental Income on holiday homes clobbered by tax* and Capital Gains Tax has soared making France probably the least desireable country to invest in - no wonder they want to keep the UK in as a bolt hole.
*Yes,I looked it up.
"Foreign holiday home owners already pay 2 other notable Taxes to the French Government called the “Taxe Fonciere” (paid by the house owner) and the “Taxe d'habitation”, (paid by those who live in it)." | |
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| Europe in or out on 11:22 - May 14 with 1163 views | Tonto |
Oh my god this thread is so sad. So much argument, based on so few facts.. just because you repeat something many times does not make it true.
And this is the main problem that the referendum faces. So much misinformation out there mean that people are not making an intelligent decision on whether to leave or not. Its mostly based on prejudices and perceptions. |  |
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| Europe in or out on 11:37 - May 14 with 1143 views | TheBlob |
Democracy,in this instance,seems to me people voting to dip their(already partially chewed)bread in someone elses soup.
Hey,what's not to like? | |
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| Europe in or out on 17:19 - May 14 with 843 views | derbyhoop |
| Europe in or out on 11:04 - May 14 by TheBlob |
France??I thought they were all over here dodging the punitive tax system.
Rental Income on holiday homes clobbered by tax* and Capital Gains Tax has soared making France probably the least desireable country to invest in - no wonder they want to keep the UK in as a bolt hole.
*Yes,I looked it up.
"Foreign holiday home owners already pay 2 other notable Taxes to the French Government called the “Taxe Fonciere” (paid by the house owner) and the “Taxe d'habitation”, (paid by those who live in it)." |
Blob - I have paid taxe fonciere and taxe d'habitation for the last 10 years. It's also paid by French residents not just UK owners of holiday homes. Last year the total bill was around 800 Euros, but that did include the TV license. Council Tax on my UK property is £1700 per annum + £150 approx. for TV.
High Taxes - maybe, but those 2 are not part of the problem.
The French economy has been struggling for some time and, based on number of French residents, London would be the 6th biggest French city. But they still have better weather, better wine, wider choice of cheese and pate. And, despite perceptions to the contrary, they are friendly towards les Anglais.
Bisous a tous (use Google translate). | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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