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This will be the first election that I have no idea who to vote for, will never vote Tory again after the lies during covid where my dad lost his life, don’t trust starmer, would never vote for a bunch of racists like reform , anyone give me a clue?
This post has been edited by an administrator
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
General Election Thread on 11:15 - Jun 7 by BazzaInTheLoft
I think the shy votes goes to Reform and Independents / WPGB type parties this year. But the amount of seats it affects is limited.
It's going to be a low turnout too. That's a huge factor and makes motivated demographics more impactful.
[Post edited 7 Jun 11:18]
It does affect seats though, because as we were discussing the other day, if you look at polling percentage of Labour votes it's about 40% - the same as Labour got in 2017. It's the redistribution of Tory votes to Reform, Lib Dems and elsewhere that's going to cause the wipe out, not a surge in Labour popularity.
[Post edited 7 Jun 11:20]
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General Election Thread on 11:36 - Jun 7 with 1608 views
"Could it be that if this is the opinion you see most often it's because that is what a lot of people think rather than being some grand right-wing conspiracy brainwashing the low IQ masses?"
That would depend upon whether you believe the media is ideologically neutral and merely reflects public opinion, or whether it plays a role in shaping opinion. You don't need to believe in a conspiracy concocted in a secret bunker to understand that material interests might shape the framing of political discourse. I might want you to believe something that protects my material self-interest, in the same way that billionaire media barons might want people to direct their frustrations anywhere else but at billionaires
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General Election Thread on 11:39 - Jun 7 with 1578 views
Leave it out clive. I for one wait for Sydney's daily firsthand account, boots-on the-ground obseravtions on the 'hot issue' of immigration, from 10,000 miles away.
The visceral nature of them really strike home and have shown me the errors of my ways.
Only now can the neolithic sloping forehead of this flat pack pisshole east end comprehensive educated kid, truely grasp this 'hot issue' , particually when delivered from the sandy Dunes of the Gold Coast.
The people of Upton park, East Ham, Forest Gate, Manor park, Barkingside, Clayhall, Portway, Beckton, Canning town, Ilford, chadwell heath, Marks Gate, redbridge, Gants hill, Newbury park, Dagenham and Barking thank him for it!
Thanks for the birthday wishes mate. Come and join us for a pint or two soon in Leigh on sea.
[Post edited 7 Jun 11:53]
The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
1
General Election Thread on 11:44 - Jun 7 with 1549 views
The role of traditional media is, to an extent, overblown. The papers were the first to lose their grip on opinion as TV took over. With the move to online publishing they have recovered some ground and have shifted engagement to their websites and other media. This is where they're pushing the narrative through targeted advertising and using your data to drive content. The online platforms are like the wild west - this from Marianna Spring is a good example: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1ww6vz1l81o
This may be the first post-TV election; 5m watched the first TV debate which is good relatively for the viewership available across the number of channels available, but in absolute terms is half who saw the first ever TV debate in 2010.
Most people, most of the time, don't change their vote in the lead up to an election and all this noise will (for the most part) be irrelevant.
General Election Thread on 11:44 - Jun 7 by E17hoop
The role of traditional media is, to an extent, overblown. The papers were the first to lose their grip on opinion as TV took over. With the move to online publishing they have recovered some ground and have shifted engagement to their websites and other media. This is where they're pushing the narrative through targeted advertising and using your data to drive content. The online platforms are like the wild west - this from Marianna Spring is a good example: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1ww6vz1l81o
This may be the first post-TV election; 5m watched the first TV debate which is good relatively for the viewership available across the number of channels available, but in absolute terms is half who saw the first ever TV debate in 2010.
Most people, most of the time, don't change their vote in the lead up to an election and all this noise will (for the most part) be irrelevant.
Ah MI5's very own Marianna. There's an article on there today about how deep fake videos are being used to mislead potential voters.
Even at this relatively short distance it's incredible when you look back at that stuff. All very mask off.
Yes, it is. It's hilarious how Marianna makes such a fuss about an account like Women4Wes, who is quite clearly not manifesting himself as a supposedly independent and objective media organisation and is obviously a lefty who despises the likes of Streeting and Starmer.
As he replies to her, they aimed to provoke attention and 'muddy the water' for viewers. They described this as a 'corrective' to the ways that politicians 'misrepresent who they really are' and rejected allegations they were a threat to democracy.
General Election Thread on 17:18 - Jun 5 by Esox_Lucius
Guaranteed to be a set up photo op. There is a photo of him with the woman arrested for throwing the milkshake from a while back.
Is this one of those slanderous fake news conspiracy theories you hear about from right-wing social media? Found itself all the way here to LFW? Via somebody proudly on the left?
Blimey!
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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General Election Thread on 13:02 - Jun 7 with 2363 views
General Election Thread on 02:08 - Jun 7 by SydneyRs
Media shouldn't really have a viewpoint, it should report facts, challenge obvious lies and give people a chance to form opinions based on reliable information. I know that will never happen but that's how it should be. Your words "if a story is true". Completely agree, but when said story is then deliberately manipulated to create a narrative that is a problem. You can't honestly claim the Mail just publishes factual stories with no attempt to influence the views of its readers.
Instead you have a very clever form of mind control pushed by wealthy owners only interested in protecting and enhancing their own positions. Its got to the point now where general living standards are falling and life expectancy for the first time ever I think is going backwards, so clearly does not benefit the majority. Meanwhile the super rich get richer.
Immigration is of course a hot issue and certainly has its problems. Governments have used it to prop up economic numbers and try to make themselves look better, but there is a price to pay and the numbers I've heard have been accepted in the UK over the last couple of years are staggering. But lets not forget who has been in government the last 14 years (voted in last time with a mandate to control borders), exactly the people the Daily Mail and similar publications would have wanted in government. Immigration equals cheaper labour, that is what is really behind it and they don't care how it affects everyday people.
The problem is when things like immigration are viewed as the cause of all failings when there are far bigger fundamental problems driving a lot of society's problems, not least rampant corporate greed and corruption that seems to go largely unchallenged. Certain parts of the media focus on immigration all the time to distract from these issues and to be fair they are very good at it.
Social media has only added to this. If I scroll through tiktok for example, I'm guaranteed to see Farage, videos of high streets and islamic people in those streets with "this is not England any more" type slogans in big lettering etc. I don't subscribe to any of those views, yet still see a lot of this stuff. God only knows how much of it you'll see if you are a regular visitor to right leaning pages. In contrast I don't see much left wing stuff. A bit but nowhere near the same volume. Probably 80/20 in favour of right leaning content.
Left leaning papers I can think of are the Mirror and maybe the Guardian. On the other hand, Times, Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph, Star all right wing to various extents. The Murdoch empire makes no secret of its leanings and controls far too much of it all. Not really a level playing field.
[Post edited 7 Jun 2:10]
So out of date. This might be a good post in about 2004. But this does not apply to the UK post-2012.
"Media shouldn't really have a viewpoint, it should report facts, challenge obvious lies and give people a chance to form opinions based on reliable information" - Well that's just idealistic crap at this point. The BBC isn't even capable of this.
"Instead you have a very clever form of mind control pushed by wealthy owners only interested in protecting and enhancing their own positions" - We have the BBC, which is paid for by the public, and actively works against public interests.
"Immigration is of course a hot issue and certainly has its problems" - Your side has spent the last god knows how long calling anybody who points out these problems "racist" - Including many victims of Pakistani grooming gangs.
"Certain parts of the media focus on immigration all the time to distract from these" - Certain people have no choice but to focus on immigration, in many areas whatever sense of community there once was has been destroyed and replaced by, erm, woke solidarity? Which isn't so much a "community" as a "Marriage of inconvenience", where you're making more and more concessions in the name of tolerance. The local pub is now an Islamic teaching center. The chippy is now a general pizza/kebab place that has an unhealthy relationship with 15-year-old girls. The local hardware shop has been gutted out and replaced by an untrained barber on one side and a "vape shop" on the other.
"Social media has only added to this. If I scroll through tiktok for example" - Fcking tiktiok. Are you not a grown man? "Probably 80/20 in favour of right leaning content" - Probably because you keep clicking on it. TikTok is chinese owned, so obv gonna be pushing capitalist propaganda.
"Left leaning papers I can think of are the Mirror and maybe the Guardian" - So fcking what? Novara media youtube channel has a greater reach than any of these today. The express is literally a joke, it's pretty funny if you read it with that in mind. The Sun carries about as much influence as Viz. The Guardian is a literal laughing stock, so much of the woke insanity 2015-2020 spawned from there and I doubt their reputation will ever recover from it.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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General Election Thread on 13:05 - Jun 7 with 2370 views
On Lefty sneering, it might give Clive and Disco some comfort that the Left likes to sneer at it’s own side too.
Here is Eddy Dempsey on that subject:
Personally, I know it feels good to give these people a battering at the ballot box for being condescending shits, it butters no parsnips in terms of services and policy.
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General Election Thread on 13:07 - Jun 7 with 2350 views
General Election Thread on 13:02 - Jun 7 by SheffieldHoop
So out of date. This might be a good post in about 2004. But this does not apply to the UK post-2012.
"Media shouldn't really have a viewpoint, it should report facts, challenge obvious lies and give people a chance to form opinions based on reliable information" - Well that's just idealistic crap at this point. The BBC isn't even capable of this.
"Instead you have a very clever form of mind control pushed by wealthy owners only interested in protecting and enhancing their own positions" - We have the BBC, which is paid for by the public, and actively works against public interests.
"Immigration is of course a hot issue and certainly has its problems" - Your side has spent the last god knows how long calling anybody who points out these problems "racist" - Including many victims of Pakistani grooming gangs.
"Certain parts of the media focus on immigration all the time to distract from these" - Certain people have no choice but to focus on immigration, in many areas whatever sense of community there once was has been destroyed and replaced by, erm, woke solidarity? Which isn't so much a "community" as a "Marriage of inconvenience", where you're making more and more concessions in the name of tolerance. The local pub is now an Islamic teaching center. The chippy is now a general pizza/kebab place that has an unhealthy relationship with 15-year-old girls. The local hardware shop has been gutted out and replaced by an untrained barber on one side and a "vape shop" on the other.
"Social media has only added to this. If I scroll through tiktok for example" - Fcking tiktiok. Are you not a grown man? "Probably 80/20 in favour of right leaning content" - Probably because you keep clicking on it. TikTok is chinese owned, so obv gonna be pushing capitalist propaganda.
"Left leaning papers I can think of are the Mirror and maybe the Guardian" - So fcking what? Novara media youtube channel has a greater reach than any of these today. The express is literally a joke, it's pretty funny if you read it with that in mind. The Sun carries about as much influence as Viz. The Guardian is a literal laughing stock, so much of the woke insanity 2015-2020 spawned from there and I doubt their reputation will ever recover from it.
Magic Ace Face. Magic.
The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
1
General Election Thread on 13:15 - Jun 7 with 2326 views
General Election Thread on 13:02 - Jun 7 by SheffieldHoop
So out of date. This might be a good post in about 2004. But this does not apply to the UK post-2012.
"Media shouldn't really have a viewpoint, it should report facts, challenge obvious lies and give people a chance to form opinions based on reliable information" - Well that's just idealistic crap at this point. The BBC isn't even capable of this.
"Instead you have a very clever form of mind control pushed by wealthy owners only interested in protecting and enhancing their own positions" - We have the BBC, which is paid for by the public, and actively works against public interests.
"Immigration is of course a hot issue and certainly has its problems" - Your side has spent the last god knows how long calling anybody who points out these problems "racist" - Including many victims of Pakistani grooming gangs.
"Certain parts of the media focus on immigration all the time to distract from these" - Certain people have no choice but to focus on immigration, in many areas whatever sense of community there once was has been destroyed and replaced by, erm, woke solidarity? Which isn't so much a "community" as a "Marriage of inconvenience", where you're making more and more concessions in the name of tolerance. The local pub is now an Islamic teaching center. The chippy is now a general pizza/kebab place that has an unhealthy relationship with 15-year-old girls. The local hardware shop has been gutted out and replaced by an untrained barber on one side and a "vape shop" on the other.
"Social media has only added to this. If I scroll through tiktok for example" - Fcking tiktiok. Are you not a grown man? "Probably 80/20 in favour of right leaning content" - Probably because you keep clicking on it. TikTok is chinese owned, so obv gonna be pushing capitalist propaganda.
"Left leaning papers I can think of are the Mirror and maybe the Guardian" - So fcking what? Novara media youtube channel has a greater reach than any of these today. The express is literally a joke, it's pretty funny if you read it with that in mind. The Sun carries about as much influence as Viz. The Guardian is a literal laughing stock, so much of the woke insanity 2015-2020 spawned from there and I doubt their reputation will ever recover from it.
"...woke insanity..." So out of date...
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General Election Thread on 13:21 - Jun 7 with 2281 views
General Election Thread on 13:02 - Jun 7 by SheffieldHoop
So out of date. This might be a good post in about 2004. But this does not apply to the UK post-2012.
"Media shouldn't really have a viewpoint, it should report facts, challenge obvious lies and give people a chance to form opinions based on reliable information" - Well that's just idealistic crap at this point. The BBC isn't even capable of this.
"Instead you have a very clever form of mind control pushed by wealthy owners only interested in protecting and enhancing their own positions" - We have the BBC, which is paid for by the public, and actively works against public interests.
"Immigration is of course a hot issue and certainly has its problems" - Your side has spent the last god knows how long calling anybody who points out these problems "racist" - Including many victims of Pakistani grooming gangs.
"Certain parts of the media focus on immigration all the time to distract from these" - Certain people have no choice but to focus on immigration, in many areas whatever sense of community there once was has been destroyed and replaced by, erm, woke solidarity? Which isn't so much a "community" as a "Marriage of inconvenience", where you're making more and more concessions in the name of tolerance. The local pub is now an Islamic teaching center. The chippy is now a general pizza/kebab place that has an unhealthy relationship with 15-year-old girls. The local hardware shop has been gutted out and replaced by an untrained barber on one side and a "vape shop" on the other.
"Social media has only added to this. If I scroll through tiktok for example" - Fcking tiktiok. Are you not a grown man? "Probably 80/20 in favour of right leaning content" - Probably because you keep clicking on it. TikTok is chinese owned, so obv gonna be pushing capitalist propaganda.
"Left leaning papers I can think of are the Mirror and maybe the Guardian" - So fcking what? Novara media youtube channel has a greater reach than any of these today. The express is literally a joke, it's pretty funny if you read it with that in mind. The Sun carries about as much influence as Viz. The Guardian is a literal laughing stock, so much of the woke insanity 2015-2020 spawned from there and I doubt their reputation will ever recover from it.
The two words that stand out for me in your post is "your side".
Anyway weren't pubs, chippies and hardware stores destroyed by capitalism with large companies like spoons, dominos and b&q taking their trade?
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General Election Thread on 14:03 - Jun 7 with 2194 views
General Election Thread on 13:21 - Jun 7 by SheffieldHoop
Textbook leftist deliberate removal of context - tyranny
"woke insanity 2015-2020"
I take it you accept 2020 as roughly the point at which the people you defend began putting the woke away?
The right's use of the term "Woke" has been so lazy and boring for years now that it's been rendered almost meaningless. It was cultural appropriation and misuse of African American political slang when first used pejoratively and those using the term today must lack either imagination, vocabulary or both.
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General Election Thread on 14:34 - Jun 7 with 2110 views
The right's use of the term "Woke" has been so lazy and boring for years now that it's been rendered almost meaningless. It was cultural appropriation and misuse of African American political slang when first used pejoratively and those using the term today must lack either imagination, vocabulary or both.
I'm 31, it's my generation that co-opted the word in the first place, I know people who were walking around telling others to "Be woke" long before the Guardian ever picked up on it. I'll use it however I see fit.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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General Election Thread on 15:02 - Jun 7 with 2005 views
General Election Thread on 13:42 - Jun 7 by QPR_Jim
The two words that stand out for me in your post is "your side".
Anyway weren't pubs, chippies and hardware stores destroyed by capitalism with large companies like spoons, dominos and b&q taking their trade?
The one word that stands out for me is "Capitalism"
Wetherspoons is still a pub. We're talking about places that used to be pubs - But now aren't. You know, like the Black Horse in Greenford we hear a lot about on here. Was the average shut-down British pub destroyed by capitalism? Not really, I don't think so anyway. I think demographic change primarily, but also incessant taxation on the pint, smoking ban, and alcohol availability in supermarkets are the key points - Summarising it as "capitalism killed the pubs" or even "Spoons took over" is completely dishonest. We're not stupid, we've all witnessed it happen.
Dominos is an expensive luxury for most people. I'm clearly not talking about Dominos franchises. Pure deflection. As ever, we're just not willing to face the fact that kids are being abused under our noses with the police & social services turning a blind eye. The abuse will continue until people start to pay attention.
Likewise, there are still independent hardware stores in places that haven't been subjected to huge levels of immigration. But you'd rather deflect away from the issues and suggest we just blame it all on "capitalism" rather than trying to work towards a solution that people can get behind. This country will never get behind socialism, so no point moaning that your openly Marxist–Leninist candidate can't win, either. The best you can do is soft Socialist wrapped in a Union Jack, which is precisely what got us into this mess in the first place.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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General Election Thread on 15:19 - Jun 7 with 1974 views
General Election Thread on 15:02 - Jun 7 by SheffieldHoop
The one word that stands out for me is "Capitalism"
Wetherspoons is still a pub. We're talking about places that used to be pubs - But now aren't. You know, like the Black Horse in Greenford we hear a lot about on here. Was the average shut-down British pub destroyed by capitalism? Not really, I don't think so anyway. I think demographic change primarily, but also incessant taxation on the pint, smoking ban, and alcohol availability in supermarkets are the key points - Summarising it as "capitalism killed the pubs" or even "Spoons took over" is completely dishonest. We're not stupid, we've all witnessed it happen.
Dominos is an expensive luxury for most people. I'm clearly not talking about Dominos franchises. Pure deflection. As ever, we're just not willing to face the fact that kids are being abused under our noses with the police & social services turning a blind eye. The abuse will continue until people start to pay attention.
Likewise, there are still independent hardware stores in places that haven't been subjected to huge levels of immigration. But you'd rather deflect away from the issues and suggest we just blame it all on "capitalism" rather than trying to work towards a solution that people can get behind. This country will never get behind socialism, so no point moaning that your openly Marxist–Leninist candidate can't win, either. The best you can do is soft Socialist wrapped in a Union Jack, which is precisely what got us into this mess in the first place.
It's not deflection, just pointing out that profitable businesses don't usually get shut down and their premises used for other things. You said that the community was suffering from these closures but seemingly not enough of the community was using them to keep them as viable businesses. To me that's broadly the result of capitalism, isn't it?
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General Election Thread on 15:35 - Jun 7 with 1922 views
General Election Thread on 15:19 - Jun 7 by QPR_Jim
It's not deflection, just pointing out that profitable businesses don't usually get shut down and their premises used for other things. You said that the community was suffering from these closures but seemingly not enough of the community was using them to keep them as viable businesses. To me that's broadly the result of capitalism, isn't it?
Not really. Sometimes they get licences revoked. Sometimes they get replaced by apartment blocks in multi-million pound property plays. Sometimes they're perfectly viable businesses - Just disincentivized out of continuing.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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General Election Thread on 16:16 - Jun 7 with 1822 views
General Election Thread on 15:35 - Jun 7 by SheffieldHoop
Not really. Sometimes they get licences revoked. Sometimes they get replaced by apartment blocks in multi-million pound property plays. Sometimes they're perfectly viable businesses - Just disincentivized out of continuing.
I'd also say choosing to close a profitable pub to build flats to make more money quickly is also a result of capitalism, if not, certainly greed.
P.s I chose dominos as they set up in a former pub opposite where I used to live. Presumably more demand for overpriced pizza than pints, perhaps that's part of the problem.
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General Election Thread on 16:38 - Jun 7 with 1781 views
General Election Thread on 16:16 - Jun 7 by QPR_Jim
I'd also say choosing to close a profitable pub to build flats to make more money quickly is also a result of capitalism, if not, certainly greed.
P.s I chose dominos as they set up in a former pub opposite where I used to live. Presumably more demand for overpriced pizza than pints, perhaps that's part of the problem.
Here's the deal - If we stop importing the thick end of 1 Million people per year - There would be no demand to replace pubs with flats. Pubs would have to carry on being pubs and serving their community, they wouldn't have the choice to sell up and make millions.
If we stopped hating our own nation, culture and values for just a moment (Plenty of evidence of this on the Netflix documentary thread), we might even be able to get rid of those concrete crash barriers we have surrounding pedestrianized areas these days. But this is apparently beyond us, all we can focus on is where British kids have gone wrong, and the urge to call ourselves racist is just too much for us to contain. So we accept the crash barriers of peace, because I'd rather have those than be thought of as racist.
P.s I mentioned a generic Pizza/Kebab place that you turned into 'Dominos' because you thought it made your 'argument' sound a bit stronger. Count yourself lucky that you don't live in an area where this kind of exploitation is happening in the open. Still happening if you look a bit more closely but "good" people never do.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
0
General Election Thread on 17:08 - Jun 7 with 1719 views
Even at this relatively short distance it's incredible when you look back at that stuff. All very mask off.
And of course the person sitting on the left is now one of our unelected overlords, for services as a lickspittle to the labour right. It is laughable how people slag off the likes of the Mail while defending the BBC or the Guardian - they're all pumping out their own brand of propaganda to serve their own interests.
Always hilarious to see Marr's bewilderment here:
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General Election Thread on 17:13 - Jun 7 with 1711 views
I live near Narborough Road in Leicester, the businesses on which has the most nationalities represented in the UK, if that makes sense. Some great eateries down there.
It's also as a result an area with lots of nationalities living nearby, so lots of immigration. It has two independent hardware stores.
Pubs have shut because people stop going to them. Maybe the public smoking ban has contributed to that but to be honest I hated going in places that stank of smoke when I was younger so the public smoking ban is one of the best things to happen in my adult lifetime in my opinion. They were absolutely disgusting to be in beforehand.
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General Election Thread on 17:13 - Jun 7 with 1711 views
General Election Thread on 16:38 - Jun 7 by SheffieldHoop
Here's the deal - If we stop importing the thick end of 1 Million people per year - There would be no demand to replace pubs with flats. Pubs would have to carry on being pubs and serving their community, they wouldn't have the choice to sell up and make millions.
If we stopped hating our own nation, culture and values for just a moment (Plenty of evidence of this on the Netflix documentary thread), we might even be able to get rid of those concrete crash barriers we have surrounding pedestrianized areas these days. But this is apparently beyond us, all we can focus on is where British kids have gone wrong, and the urge to call ourselves racist is just too much for us to contain. So we accept the crash barriers of peace, because I'd rather have those than be thought of as racist.
P.s I mentioned a generic Pizza/Kebab place that you turned into 'Dominos' because you thought it made your 'argument' sound a bit stronger. Count yourself lucky that you don't live in an area where this kind of exploitation is happening in the open. Still happening if you look a bit more closely but "good" people never do.
Pubs would have to carry on being pubs and serving their community, they wouldn't have the choice to sell up and make millions. - Not if they aren't making money, you'd need some sort of market intervention to prop up ailing pubs just so they're there for the community. Loads of pubs have closed around Medway and most of them were mostly empty before they closed.
Also disagreeing with you isn't hating my own nation or culture however much you might think it is, so I'll leave it there.
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