| Targeting Groups 23:44 - Apr 7 with 4396 views | _Windydale |
Just a thought around targeting Dale ticket sales at groups of people and reaching out to bring in money from pools of fans, mates, work, clubs who might want to make a day of it.
Could be worth it during times when Dale are playing great or....even just have it as an option on the ticketing sales page on the club website.
I've seen clubs abroad that have this option, and maybe its something to explore. Offer a big discount to groups of fans who are 5, 10 , or 15 etc in number.
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| Targeting Groups on 10:04 - Apr 8 with 4141 views | Dalenet |
We need a plan. A 5 year plan, that looks to try and add another 2000 to our gate. We should be pulling in more than 4,000 for a town of our size. Winning football matches helps of course. At present the best we can hope is to get a few walking football teams along with a deal.
Our new investors have a massive job to do here. Occasional deals are next to useless unless you have a sustained strategy to get the community involved in attending games. Whether that be pricing, bundling, database management etc etc. You, me and others have talked about this for years. But the town doesn't seem to care. It was less than 2 months ago that the media learned we may go bust at the end of March. And yet we attracted just 1428 home fans to the Woking game in March. Shocking really.
The 'business' investment is more than just the redevelopment of the commercial spaces at Spotland. We need good marketing people, database capability, social media specialists and a "Customer Champion" that sits on the Board as a full time paid employee. The club will never be sustainable long term unless it reaches a 4,000 target week in week out. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 12:13 - Apr 8 with 4013 views | 49thseason |
| Targeting Groups on 10:04 - Apr 8 by Dalenet |
We need a plan. A 5 year plan, that looks to try and add another 2000 to our gate. We should be pulling in more than 4,000 for a town of our size. Winning football matches helps of course. At present the best we can hope is to get a few walking football teams along with a deal.
Our new investors have a massive job to do here. Occasional deals are next to useless unless you have a sustained strategy to get the community involved in attending games. Whether that be pricing, bundling, database management etc etc. You, me and others have talked about this for years. But the town doesn't seem to care. It was less than 2 months ago that the media learned we may go bust at the end of March. And yet we attracted just 1428 home fans to the Woking game in March. Shocking really.
The 'business' investment is more than just the redevelopment of the commercial spaces at Spotland. We need good marketing people, database capability, social media specialists and a "Customer Champion" that sits on the Board as a full time paid employee. The club will never be sustainable long term unless it reaches a 4,000 target week in week out. |
You are correct in thinking we need more people in the ground, especially as at this level the visiting support is generally poor. But... 4000 x £13 × 23 games ( 13 £ from total ticket revenue divided by total attendees for 2022.) Only delivers £1.38m.
We need to generate at least a similar amount from off- pitch activities.
A training ground with community access to 2 x 4g pitches could raise £100+ per pitch per hour for 4 or 5 hours a day per week so say £250 x 5 hours x7 days x50 weeks could raise another £400k after costs.
A dark kitchen utilising the existing kitchens at the ground sould make £250 / 300 per night given the size of the potential customer base.. so say another £100k
A lottery could all another £100 - £200k
A well-run club shop could add £50k
Parties and celebrations should add £50k
Bars £50k-100k
A couple of good local pre- season home friendlies would help.. Burnley, Bolton, City United?
Add in improved sales and marketing and we get closer to £2 - £2.5m.. I wonder if Computacenter would like to sponsor us? At least the IT would be taken care of.....The good thing about having proper business people running things would be that their connections are at a much higher / wealthier level than we are used to., |  | | |
| Targeting Groups on 12:50 - Apr 8 with 3931 views | Dalenet |
| Targeting Groups on 12:13 - Apr 8 by 49thseason |
You are correct in thinking we need more people in the ground, especially as at this level the visiting support is generally poor. But... 4000 x £13 × 23 games ( 13 £ from total ticket revenue divided by total attendees for 2022.) Only delivers £1.38m.
We need to generate at least a similar amount from off- pitch activities.
A training ground with community access to 2 x 4g pitches could raise £100+ per pitch per hour for 4 or 5 hours a day per week so say £250 x 5 hours x7 days x50 weeks could raise another £400k after costs.
A dark kitchen utilising the existing kitchens at the ground sould make £250 / 300 per night given the size of the potential customer base.. so say another £100k
A lottery could all another £100 - £200k
A well-run club shop could add £50k
Parties and celebrations should add £50k
Bars £50k-100k
A couple of good local pre- season home friendlies would help.. Burnley, Bolton, City United?
Add in improved sales and marketing and we get closer to £2 - £2.5m.. I wonder if Computacenter would like to sponsor us? At least the IT would be taken care of.....The good thing about having proper business people running things would be that their connections are at a much higher / wealthier level than we are used to., |
Apart from the dark kitchen concept, I agree with most of that too. But 4,000 fans that want to be here generates a lot more than £1.38m. They spend money beyond the gate, they attend events, they buy kit, they sponsor players. Their support creates a positive on field performance - maybe a cup run or two. Without at least 4,000 fans we are in danger of becoming irrelevant to the community. We have an older fan base. I have lost count of how many fans that sat near me have passed. Our priority is to build the fan base before we start spending money on pitches I would say.
There is so much we can just plagiarise from other clubs. Just needs somebody that is 100% focussed on it. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 14:22 - Apr 8 with 3788 views | rochedale |
I’ve been speaking with a colleague in Lincoln today, avid Lincoln City fan. Asked him what his crowds are like now in league one, they’re getting 10k for home matches yet they used to get similar to us. I asked how he thought they’d done that and he told me it was due to their game at Arsenal where they took a load of fans, kept their details and marketed to them. I was flabbergasted that they’ve been able to improve their gates 4 fold. Maybe there’s a lesson to be learnt there… |  |
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| Targeting Groups on 14:54 - Apr 8 with 3724 views | sxdale |
| Targeting Groups on 14:22 - Apr 8 by rochedale |
I’ve been speaking with a colleague in Lincoln today, avid Lincoln City fan. Asked him what his crowds are like now in league one, they’re getting 10k for home matches yet they used to get similar to us. I asked how he thought they’d done that and he told me it was due to their game at Arsenal where they took a load of fans, kept their details and marketed to them. I was flabbergasted that they’ve been able to improve their gates 4 fold. Maybe there’s a lesson to be learnt there… |
Being a city and having no-one else to support for miles around (Scunthorpe/Boston) also helps. When they got relegated out of the league the 1st time in 86/87? they came straight back up with triple the crowds they went down with. Lincoln are well run, partially fan owned and also have American investors. They do a lot of things right and we can learn a lot from them but nothing beats success on the pitch and a large catchment area to bring in the crowds. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 15:09 - Apr 8 with 3690 views | wozzrafc |
Stockport do amazing work in the community. They have a massive football in the community programme working with the local schools and council.
They have coaches going into schools delivering PE lessons and after school football clubs every week. In my son’s school he has a PE lesson from a coach provided by Stockport County once a week every week he also goes to a Stockport county run after school football coaching session once a week.
I have lost count of the amount of times we have been offered free tickets via the school.
They also run holiday clubs in some schools. The out reach they have throughout the borough is very impressive.
Obviously these things take time and it helps being successful but they are building their fan base starting very young. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 15:11 - Apr 8 with 3686 views | EllDale |
They also had more recent success when the Cowleys were there which really caught the city’s imagination.
By comparison we never built on the back of the attendances for Tottenham, Man Utd and Newcastle. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 15:31 - Apr 8 with 3628 views | rochedale |
| Targeting Groups on 15:09 - Apr 8 by wozzrafc |
Stockport do amazing work in the community. They have a massive football in the community programme working with the local schools and council.
They have coaches going into schools delivering PE lessons and after school football clubs every week. In my son’s school he has a PE lesson from a coach provided by Stockport County once a week every week he also goes to a Stockport county run after school football coaching session once a week.
I have lost count of the amount of times we have been offered free tickets via the school.
They also run holiday clubs in some schools. The out reach they have throughout the borough is very impressive.
Obviously these things take time and it helps being successful but they are building their fan base starting very young. |
To be fair, we are doing the grassroots day on Saturday and I’ve received an email from the club, offering tickets to all our players for my son’s team. | |
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| Targeting Groups on 15:38 - Apr 8 with 3615 views | wozzrafc |
| Targeting Groups on 15:31 - Apr 8 by rochedale |
To be fair, we are doing the grassroots day on Saturday and I’ve received an email from the club, offering tickets to all our players for my son’s team. |
Don’t get me wrong I’m not criticising the work we do, the community trust do a great job with the resources we have. The point I’m making is Stockport are in the school every week teaching the same kids every week. The kids see them as part of the community as they are there week in week out.
Apart from my son who was moaning as he had to wear a Stockport County kit when they took him to a football competition with his school at Man City’s training ground the other week. He saw it as a humiliation. [Post edited 8 Apr 15:40]
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| Targeting Groups on 18:07 - Apr 8 with 3427 views | judd |
| Targeting Groups on 14:54 - Apr 8 by sxdale |
Being a city and having no-one else to support for miles around (Scunthorpe/Boston) also helps. When they got relegated out of the league the 1st time in 86/87? they came straight back up with triple the crowds they went down with. Lincoln are well run, partially fan owned and also have American investors. They do a lot of things right and we can learn a lot from them but nothing beats success on the pitch and a large catchment area to bring in the crowds. |
Interesting model is Lincoln. Turnover around £6.5m and spend 90% of it on wages.
Average attendance 8,600 and lost £2.6m last year after a £2m loss the previous year.
Without player sales, loss in 23 would have been £3.2m.
They sold £3m worth of shares last financial yearto help fund losses.
They have listed as a Director their supporters trust, not an individual.
Last month they issued another huge amount of shares. |  |
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| Targeting Groups on 20:14 - Apr 8 with 3274 views | watford_dale |
| Targeting Groups on 12:50 - Apr 8 by Dalenet |
Apart from the dark kitchen concept, I agree with most of that too. But 4,000 fans that want to be here generates a lot more than £1.38m. They spend money beyond the gate, they attend events, they buy kit, they sponsor players. Their support creates a positive on field performance - maybe a cup run or two. Without at least 4,000 fans we are in danger of becoming irrelevant to the community. We have an older fan base. I have lost count of how many fans that sat near me have passed. Our priority is to build the fan base before we start spending money on pitches I would say.
There is so much we can just plagiarise from other clubs. Just needs somebody that is 100% focussed on it. |
Last time we hit an average of over 4,000 a week was 1970/71.
Closest there has been was the 2018/19 season 3,574 average. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 20:55 - Apr 8 with 3211 views | Dalenet |
| Targeting Groups on 20:14 - Apr 8 by watford_dale |
Last time we hit an average of over 4,000 a week was 1970/71.
Closest there has been was the 2018/19 season 3,574 average. |
Indeed - it is a challenge. But football has never been so popular in modern times and many clubs have managd to increase attendances. We have to try - or we simply give up. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 21:34 - Apr 8 with 3153 views | Rehsad |
| Targeting Groups on 18:07 - Apr 8 by judd |
Interesting model is Lincoln. Turnover around £6.5m and spend 90% of it on wages.
Average attendance 8,600 and lost £2.6m last year after a £2m loss the previous year.
Without player sales, loss in 23 would have been £3.2m.
They sold £3m worth of shares last financial yearto help fund losses.
They have listed as a Director their supporters trust, not an individual.
Last month they issued another huge amount of shares. |
I agree - interesting model. It would appear to me that they issue a share offer and the Jabara Family have, very the last few years, picked them all up. They now own almost 40% of LCFC's parent - and my guess is that they can only have done this by picking up virtually all the shares that are made available. How long that this can continue is debatable and just looks like the type of EFL1 model which is based on a gamble on promotion to the Championship. They could make the playoffs this year - but that is a strong playoff group and coming out on top over Bolton, Peterborough and Barnsley is one heck of a gamble.My worry would be that this year could be their best chance. I do think that a couple of thousand on their average gate comes from (a) them doing well and (b) some teams with strong away support where a midlands trip isn't an onerous one. I'm not so sure that it is based on their not being much else around. Whilst this is true, Lincoln isn't a populous city (100k or so) and the county is very spread out. They do have Newark close by but I see a lot of Newark base going to the Nottingham clubs. I live just outside Newark. Lincoln do market themselves well - I often see young kids with imps shirts. Lincoln is also a stag party venue - and I do suspect that they sell game packages to groups.
Boston United's model is also an interesting one, and should we be successful in closing out the Ogden Family deal then it is one worth looking closely at. The investors are in (local) property. They have built a community hub type of stadium. It's small (5-6,000) but it has lots of add ons that bring money in. The investors have stated a long term interest in returning Boston to the fans. Boston's home gate is maybe 1100 -1200 below ours but with success this could easily rise to 1800-2000. They have also got a chance of making the playoffs. They may not make it this year but I suspect that we'll see Boston in the NL before we see Lincoln in the Championship. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 21:42 - Apr 8 with 3118 views | EllDale |
The club that intrigue me most at our level in terms of attendances are York who regularly seem to attract 4500 without any relative success.
Have they a benefactor or is it good marketing plus a new ground? | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 09:48 - Apr 9 with 2823 views | Dalenet |
| Targeting Groups on 21:42 - Apr 8 by EllDale |
The club that intrigue me most at our level in terms of attendances are York who regularly seem to attract 4500 without any relative success.
Have they a benefactor or is it good marketing plus a new ground? |
https://www.raiseyork.co.uk/news/article/12/york-city-football-club-stadium-fami
Things like this help. Crowded football stadiums are intimidating if you haven't been before. They seem to understand the need to engage with prospective supporters. | | | |
| Targeting Groups on 10:45 - Apr 9 with 2754 views | D_Alien |
It'd be useful for the club to get some feedback from York about how these sessions went, any initial issues to iron out, etc.
There may be differences in demographics to take into account too but nothing should be regarded as insurmountable |  |
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