| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty 15:34 - Dec 8 with 6175 views | vetchonian |
I see the club has announced that safe standing areas will be installed in the stadium for next season....Apologies to Martin Morgan I should have said the Swansea.com |  |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 12:02 - Dec 10 with 1710 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 21:40 - Dec 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The fencing failed under load at Ibrox. The steel and fixings of the steel will need to be of a
much higher standard and therefore quite costly. That was the point. Much higher standards will be required today for presumably a "worst possible scenario".
This will include not relying on stewards "to do their jobs". The bolts will need to be of a length commensurate with likely loading. What happened i the Vetch is no guide to modern requirements. I doubt it even had a safety permit. Hillsborough did not have one. |
No, sorry, you're wrong. At Ibrox the deaths were caused by crushing and asphyxiation after somebody fell over in the stairwell and caused a chain reaction,
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/article/our-records-ibrox-disaster-1971
Doing some research often helps you know. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 14:22 - Dec 10 with 1639 views | Boundy |
Sorry to say I remember the day well, news of the event was swiftly on the news and although I had no connection the memory remains strong due to the images which were transmitted on the news broadcasts. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 14:27 - Dec 10 with 1638 views | Boundy |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 17:53 - Dec 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
As far as I am concerned if fans want to have safe standing they should pay for it in their season s ticket of match day ticket. It costs a lot of money. Ask the Trust see if they can help. I know the answer to that one. |
So glad you're not you're a decision maker ,facilities provided and maintained by the Club whose income each year covers these costs, they may add the cost to the ticket price but I would doubt the owners would be stupid enough to try it on as a one off charge .Screw the main income group and they'll soon find they on a hiding to none | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:25 - Dec 10 with 1588 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 14:27 - Dec 10 by Boundy |
So glad you're not you're a decision maker ,facilities provided and maintained by the Club whose income each year covers these costs, they may add the cost to the ticket price but I would doubt the owners would be stupid enough to try it on as a one off charge .Screw the main income group and they'll soon find they on a hiding to none |
I paid extra for comfy seats at the CCS for the Swansea game. If you want more than the ordinary it it simple economics that you and no one else pays for it.
Currently you have a seat But you want 'extra' a seat and a safe standing facilities. That is fine too but the barriers cost money and you must pay for the extra. A small ticket supplement over a few seasons. Why should family stand fans subsidise you.
Welcome to Wales everyone want a free lunch. |  |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:18 - Dec 11 with 1506 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:25 - Dec 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I paid extra for comfy seats at the CCS for the Swansea game. If you want more than the ordinary it it simple economics that you and no one else pays for it.
Currently you have a seat But you want 'extra' a seat and a safe standing facilities. That is fine too but the barriers cost money and you must pay for the extra. A small ticket supplement over a few seasons. Why should family stand fans subsidise you.
Welcome to Wales everyone want a free lunch. |
You do make a habit of being wrong. The fans haven't pushed for this, the owners have decided to install it.
If the fans were asked if they wanted it at an extra cost, that'd be different but I don't remember the owners asking? I could be wrong.
What YOU choose to pay for is YOUR choice. I didn't know there were etra comfy seats in the away end at CCS. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:40 - Dec 11 with 1476 views | Whiterockin |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:18 - Dec 11 by SullutaCreturned |
You do make a habit of being wrong. The fans haven't pushed for this, the owners have decided to install it.
If the fans were asked if they wanted it at an extra cost, that'd be different but I don't remember the owners asking? I could be wrong.
What YOU choose to pay for is YOUR choice. I didn't know there were etra comfy seats in the away end at CCS. |
Comfy seats are pointless at away matches, nobody sits down. |  | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 00:23 - Dec 12 with 1403 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:18 - Dec 11 by SullutaCreturned |
You do make a habit of being wrong. The fans haven't pushed for this, the owners have decided to install it.
If the fans were asked if they wanted it at an extra cost, that'd be different but I don't remember the owners asking? I could be wrong.
What YOU choose to pay for is YOUR choice. I didn't know there were etra comfy seats in the away end at CCS. |
You make a habit of criticising the poster rather than sticking to the argument. I do not do this in return. I was not wrong about the Ibrox disaster or this.
Fans have asked for it in general. It will be providing extra facilities compared to the rest of the ground to allow fans to move. These extra facilities cost extra. If the fans do not want to pay it is their choice. The area will not be fully populated. It is basic economic and trading. In general if you want extra facilities you have to pay for them. It is not a free lunch. | |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 10:48 - Dec 12 with 1370 views | Boundy |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:25 - Dec 10 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I paid extra for comfy seats at the CCS for the Swansea game. If you want more than the ordinary it it simple economics that you and no one else pays for it.
Currently you have a seat But you want 'extra' a seat and a safe standing facilities. That is fine too but the barriers cost money and you must pay for the extra. A small ticket supplement over a few seasons. Why should family stand fans subsidise you.
Welcome to Wales everyone want a free lunch. |
I never wanted anything let alone a individual barrier placed in front of my seat , yet again you make assumptions which have no bearing on reality . You paid for comfy seats because you weren't sitting in the away end which is your prerogative but why mention that in the first place is beyond me. Have a nice day . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 14:42 - Dec 12 with 1321 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 10:48 - Dec 12 by Boundy |
I never wanted anything let alone a individual barrier placed in front of my seat , yet again you make assumptions which have no bearing on reality . You paid for comfy seats because you weren't sitting in the away end which is your prerogative but why mention that in the first place is beyond me. Have a nice day . |
You must therefore move to allow a person who wants to stand and jump about take that spot. He or she has to cough up. Swansea city is not a social service.
If the scheme allowed for increasing the stadium capacity then theosts can be recovered then no increase would be necessary.
Everyone supports the idea but no one wants to pay for it. | |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 14:57 - Dec 12 with 1315 views | Whiterockin |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 14:42 - Dec 12 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You must therefore move to allow a person who wants to stand and jump about take that spot. He or she has to cough up. Swansea city is not a social service.
If the scheme allowed for increasing the stadium capacity then theosts can be recovered then no increase would be necessary.
Everyone supports the idea but no one wants to pay for it. |
You would have thought they would have surveyed the people sitting in the seats first, asking if they wanted the change and if there was to be a price increase are they prepared to pay. This is the area that provides the main support for the team, the last thing the team needs is this group of supporters broken up and possibly dispersed to other areas of the ground. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 16:27 - Dec 13 with 1260 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 00:23 - Dec 12 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You make a habit of criticising the poster rather than sticking to the argument. I do not do this in return. I was not wrong about the Ibrox disaster or this.
Fans have asked for it in general. It will be providing extra facilities compared to the rest of the ground to allow fans to move. These extra facilities cost extra. If the fans do not want to pay it is their choice. The area will not be fully populated. It is basic economic and trading. In general if you want extra facilities you have to pay for them. It is not a free lunch. |
hey when you're wrong, you're wrong, and you are.
The disaster at Ibrox was NOT caused by barriers failing, the crush happened on the stairway out, stairway 13. That stairway has seen a few incidents. The crush was caused by people falling over NOT by the barriers failing. All you have to do is google it and read the facts.
You say fans have asked for it in general, I haven't even noticed a thread on here recently calling for it, it has been discussed in the past but in general, who has made a fuss about this?
Basic economics say you need to provide a product that people want so maybe the owners need to have a closer look at what they are providing and maybe not spend money on a safe standing area until the product that matters (the team) is doing better. No one is asking for a free lunch but if they put prices up to pay for this then the over all effect could easily be a lowered income as people refuse to spend their hard earned money on such rubbish.
Where I buy my lunch is my choice but if my favoured destination sees a decline in quality AND puts prices up they can expect to lose my business. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 16:33 - Dec 13 with 1250 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 00:23 - Dec 12 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You make a habit of criticising the poster rather than sticking to the argument. I do not do this in return. I was not wrong about the Ibrox disaster or this.
Fans have asked for it in general. It will be providing extra facilities compared to the rest of the ground to allow fans to move. These extra facilities cost extra. If the fans do not want to pay it is their choice. The area will not be fully populated. It is basic economic and trading. In general if you want extra facilities you have to pay for them. It is not a free lunch. |
PS, yes I criticised you directly and maybe you don't like it but then, you felt happy to criticise thousands of jacks in previous posts. Several times you called people thick, and other things.
If you don't like being criticised then maybe don't criticise others. Now sticking to the argument I still say you are wrong, your "fact" about Ibrox is wrong. Your fact about engineering re the crash barriers, well as pointed out they are bolted into the floor not put in a hole and cemented in so, you are wrong.
Try again. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:02 - Dec 13 with 1213 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 16:33 - Dec 13 by SullutaCreturned |
PS, yes I criticised you directly and maybe you don't like it but then, you felt happy to criticise thousands of jacks in previous posts. Several times you called people thick, and other things.
If you don't like being criticised then maybe don't criticise others. Now sticking to the argument I still say you are wrong, your "fact" about Ibrox is wrong. Your fact about engineering re the crash barriers, well as pointed out they are bolted into the floor not put in a hole and cemented in so, you are wrong.
Try again. |
I was walking past a stadium yesterday and the barriers alongside a walkway were set into the ground with no plates. It may be a question of lateral loading.
The Ibrox disaster did involve collapsed barriers on a stairwell. I pointed that out as a possible factor and any barriers would need to be of a high standard and therefore quite costly even considering the engineering design.
The fans group (the Trust) is now out of favour because they failed to sell any of their shares at top dollar. The blame for this is with the members and people running the Trust 2014-2017. Those people are not criticised because they have deflected blame to the current and past owners. To walk away from a 10,000% return is not bright. Not one member demanded they should sell. Why? It was a lack of interest or ability to think clearly. If a group performs badly they are open to criticism whoever they are.
We will see if the barriers are drilled in or bolted onto to a plate in the future. The steel and bolts if used will need to be galvanised and very strong and able to resist lateral loading. The length of the depth of the fence posts or drilled in bolts would need to be calculated in the design using software. | |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:41 - Dec 14 with 1118 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:02 - Dec 13 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I was walking past a stadium yesterday and the barriers alongside a walkway were set into the ground with no plates. It may be a question of lateral loading.
The Ibrox disaster did involve collapsed barriers on a stairwell. I pointed that out as a possible factor and any barriers would need to be of a high standard and therefore quite costly even considering the engineering design.
The fans group (the Trust) is now out of favour because they failed to sell any of their shares at top dollar. The blame for this is with the members and people running the Trust 2014-2017. Those people are not criticised because they have deflected blame to the current and past owners. To walk away from a 10,000% return is not bright. Not one member demanded they should sell. Why? It was a lack of interest or ability to think clearly. If a group performs badly they are open to criticism whoever they are.
We will see if the barriers are drilled in or bolted onto to a plate in the future. The steel and bolts if used will need to be galvanised and very strong and able to resist lateral loading. The length of the depth of the fence posts or drilled in bolts would need to be calculated in the design using software. |
Which stadium was that then? A small Welsh rugby ground?
At Ibrox the barriers collapsed because of the crush, they didn't cause it, which you may know if you'd bothered to google the story.
Todays barriers are much better AND we don't allow such massive crowds into the grounds either. back in that day we'd be allowed over 30,000 into the Liberty
The Trust AGAIN...yawn.
The current metalwork is bolted in, to drill out holes and cement new barriers in would cost a lot more and for all I know may damage the structure of the stadium as it may weaken the preformed concrete steps. The new barriers may welll be able to be affixed into the existing bolt holes. Or maybe those holes will be made a bit bigger and have stronger bolts in them. But as there will be no crowd increase then maybe not.
As this work is definitely going ahead then the calculations will likely already be made. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 21:14 - Dec 14 with 1081 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 19:41 - Dec 14 by SullutaCreturned |
Which stadium was that then? A small Welsh rugby ground?
At Ibrox the barriers collapsed because of the crush, they didn't cause it, which you may know if you'd bothered to google the story.
Todays barriers are much better AND we don't allow such massive crowds into the grounds either. back in that day we'd be allowed over 30,000 into the Liberty
The Trust AGAIN...yawn.
The current metalwork is bolted in, to drill out holes and cement new barriers in would cost a lot more and for all I know may damage the structure of the stadium as it may weaken the preformed concrete steps. The new barriers may welll be able to be affixed into the existing bolt holes. Or maybe those holes will be made a bit bigger and have stronger bolts in them. But as there will be no crowd increase then maybe not.
As this work is definitely going ahead then the calculations will likely already be made. |
I pointed out that some engineering design work would need to go into the installation of these barriers to modern standards and pointed out that some lessons would have been learn from the Ibrox barriers that failed.
They would need to be robustly set into the ground adding complications either by embedment of the vertical posts or drilling long and wide diameter bolts with base plate. Lessons would have been learned from Ibrox and other instances of barrier failure. The point of this comment was not detailed engineering discussion but explaining why the costs would not be insignificant.
You have gone off on a tangent with you point scoring agenda stating that I was wrong about something that you made up.
It appears the club will not hand the extra cost to the fans that use these extra features but will share the costs across the board. They will argue that the fans in this section will improve the atmosphere and improve the matchday experience across the board to the benefit of the club as a whole. | |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 21:23 - Dec 14 with 1068 views | Whiterockin |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 21:14 - Dec 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I pointed out that some engineering design work would need to go into the installation of these barriers to modern standards and pointed out that some lessons would have been learn from the Ibrox barriers that failed.
They would need to be robustly set into the ground adding complications either by embedment of the vertical posts or drilling long and wide diameter bolts with base plate. Lessons would have been learned from Ibrox and other instances of barrier failure. The point of this comment was not detailed engineering discussion but explaining why the costs would not be insignificant.
You have gone off on a tangent with you point scoring agenda stating that I was wrong about something that you made up.
It appears the club will not hand the extra cost to the fans that use these extra features but will share the costs across the board. They will argue that the fans in this section will improve the atmosphere and improve the matchday experience across the board to the benefit of the club as a whole. |
I would imagine that they are going to use the tried and tested barriers that are already in use throughout Europe. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 15:05 - Dec 15 with 989 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 21:14 - Dec 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I pointed out that some engineering design work would need to go into the installation of these barriers to modern standards and pointed out that some lessons would have been learn from the Ibrox barriers that failed.
They would need to be robustly set into the ground adding complications either by embedment of the vertical posts or drilling long and wide diameter bolts with base plate. Lessons would have been learned from Ibrox and other instances of barrier failure. The point of this comment was not detailed engineering discussion but explaining why the costs would not be insignificant.
You have gone off on a tangent with you point scoring agenda stating that I was wrong about something that you made up.
It appears the club will not hand the extra cost to the fans that use these extra features but will share the costs across the board. They will argue that the fans in this section will improve the atmosphere and improve the matchday experience across the board to the benefit of the club as a whole. |
I pointed out that some engineering design work would need to go into the installation of these barriers to modern standards and pointed out that some lessons would have been learn from the Ibrox barriers that failed.
The Ibrox barriers failed because of the crush, not a fans surge as you claimed.
They would need to be robustly set into the ground adding complications either by embedment of the vertical posts or drilling long and wide diameter bolts with base plate. Lessons would have been learned from Ibrox and other instances of barrier failure. The point of this comment was not detailed engineering discussion but explaining why the costs would not be insignificant.
They will be robustly fixed just not in the outdated manner you suggested, not cemented into holes but bolted in just like they have been since the Liberty was built and like they were in the Vetch. Modern standards have been applied and the disaster at Hillsborough saw the all seated change, now newer modern standards are being applied to have safe standing.
You have gone off on a tangent with you point scoring agenda stating that I was wrong about something that you made up.
What was it I made up exactly, what was the tangent? What points have I scored when nobody is keeping score?
It appears the club will not hand the extra cost to the fans that use these extra features but will share the costs across the board. They will argue that the fans in this section will improve the atmosphere and improve the matchday experience across the board to the benefit of the club as a whole.
It doesn't "appear" at all, it is eactly what is happening, the costs of these changes are being stood by the club.
You do understand how the forum works, don't you? People make posts and other people agree or disagree and make counter posts, or they add their own opinion. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 15:25 - Dec 15 with 963 views | Whiterockin |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 15:05 - Dec 15 by SullutaCreturned |
I pointed out that some engineering design work would need to go into the installation of these barriers to modern standards and pointed out that some lessons would have been learn from the Ibrox barriers that failed.
The Ibrox barriers failed because of the crush, not a fans surge as you claimed.
They would need to be robustly set into the ground adding complications either by embedment of the vertical posts or drilling long and wide diameter bolts with base plate. Lessons would have been learned from Ibrox and other instances of barrier failure. The point of this comment was not detailed engineering discussion but explaining why the costs would not be insignificant.
They will be robustly fixed just not in the outdated manner you suggested, not cemented into holes but bolted in just like they have been since the Liberty was built and like they were in the Vetch. Modern standards have been applied and the disaster at Hillsborough saw the all seated change, now newer modern standards are being applied to have safe standing.
You have gone off on a tangent with you point scoring agenda stating that I was wrong about something that you made up.
What was it I made up exactly, what was the tangent? What points have I scored when nobody is keeping score?
It appears the club will not hand the extra cost to the fans that use these extra features but will share the costs across the board. They will argue that the fans in this section will improve the atmosphere and improve the matchday experience across the board to the benefit of the club as a whole.
It doesn't "appear" at all, it is eactly what is happening, the costs of these changes are being stood by the club.
You do understand how the forum works, don't you? People make posts and other people agree or disagree and make counter posts, or they add their own opinion. |
He also doesn't understand the safety features of safe standing. There is no surge pressure put on the barriers (unlike old football stadium barriers)as they are individual for seats which are built into the barrier. There are normally a maximum of 3 bolts for each leg of the barrier, two into the upright and sometimes one into the floor, these are just bolts through the barrier support and into the concrete. This is enough as there is no crush or surge from multiple people, each is individual. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 18:00 - Dec 15 with 923 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 15:25 - Dec 15 by Whiterockin |
He also doesn't understand the safety features of safe standing. There is no surge pressure put on the barriers (unlike old football stadium barriers)as they are individual for seats which are built into the barrier. There are normally a maximum of 3 bolts for each leg of the barrier, two into the upright and sometimes one into the floor, these are just bolts through the barrier support and into the concrete. This is enough as there is no crush or surge from multiple people, each is individual. |
I understand fully. Modern barriers need to be to modern standards and therefore will not be cheap. They will need I would imagine to be designed for lateral loading with a factor of safety related to a temporary loss of control of steward from incursion of fans without tickets looking for trouble. [Post edited 15 Dec 2023 18:18]
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 21:44 - Dec 15 with 848 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 21:14 - Dec 15 by SullutaCreturned |
Oh just give up mun 
Of course they'll meet modern standards.
Fans without tickets? Fans WITH tickets aren't turning up these days.
It's not for the barriers but a big hole has definitely been dug on this thread. |
It is you with a 'point scoring' agenda. Giving up is not in my make-up.
Looking at the pictures there is no way in hell you would get me in there. Caging in people who cannot be trusted to behave. Compulsory steel separators. | |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 22:00 - Dec 15 with 832 views | Whiterockin |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 21:44 - Dec 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
It is you with a 'point scoring' agenda. Giving up is not in my make-up.
Looking at the pictures there is no way in hell you would get me in there. Caging in people who cannot be trusted to behave. Compulsory steel separators. |
Sometimes I actually doubt whether you attended matches. | | | |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 07:22 - Dec 16 with 781 views | felixstowe_jack |
Can only be good to give supporters a choice. Some prefer to sit some prefer to stand.
Most would prefer to buy a match day programme instead of the electronic version.
Some prefer to spend cash , Some prefer to use cards. | |
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| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 08:35 - Dec 16 with 764 views | Gwyn737 |
| Standing areas to be installed at the Liberty on 07:22 - Dec 16 by felixstowe_jack |
Can only be good to give supporters a choice. Some prefer to sit some prefer to stand.
Most would prefer to buy a match day programme instead of the electronic version.
Some prefer to spend cash , Some prefer to use cards. |
Absolutely.
If changes were only made to things if everyone had to agree, nothing would ever get done.
Choice in this instance is a good thing. | | | |
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