| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? 00:53 - Feb 2 with 6799 views | Dr_Parnassus |
It’s a question I have asked on various threads but not getting an answer.
£10,000,000 of their own money, out of their own pockets has been put in my them so far and not listed as debt with it being converted to equity.
So who in our history has put in more of their own money than this ownership group?
I feel some toys being firmly dislodged from some prams over the last 48 hours calling them liars and all sorts.
Running the club at an even keel, an ability to source external cheap investment and ploughing a couple of million into transfers every season is exactly what we want isn’t it? Plus the support and time given to an uninspiring manager is also off the scale which is what people wanted…
If it isn’t then please let me know what it is we are wanting from the next owners. |  |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 21:26 - Feb 6 with 1019 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 21:19 - Feb 6 by STID2017 |
If any of the current owner or owners have actually invested £16 million from their own personal fortune then I concede.
I just cannot believe that any of them are that rich that they can afford to invest and possibly lose that amount of money from their personal fortune.
Maybe from their investment company but that is not personal fortune |
But again, why does it matter?
The reason these owners were preferred over past ones is that they have the ability to source external funds, something Jenkins and Co couldn’t do.
Whether it’s all directly from them as individuals, or in part from a group THEY have sourced from is irrelevant. | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 21:40 - Feb 6 with 1001 views | STID2017 |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 21:26 - Feb 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
But again, why does it matter?
The reason these owners were preferred over past ones is that they have the ability to source external funds, something Jenkins and Co couldn’t do.
Whether it’s all directly from them as individuals, or in part from a group THEY have sourced from is irrelevant. |
I think it is a question of respect, for me anyway.
I respect people like Struel and his board, Dougie Sharp, and countless others who have gambled and mostly lost by investing their own money out of a love for the club, more than investment brokers who are gambling with other peoples money and ultimately do not care if we succeed or fail ( other than for the financial gain of their companies) |  |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 22:10 - Feb 6 with 968 views | Boundy |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 21:26 - Feb 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
But again, why does it matter?
The reason these owners were preferred over past ones is that they have the ability to source external funds, something Jenkins and Co couldn’t do.
Whether it’s all directly from them as individuals, or in part from a group THEY have sourced from is irrelevant. |
They yanks were prefered by those who were only concerned about their own self interests and not the Clubs and where they get the money from is more than relevant . |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 22:32 - Feb 6 with 937 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 21:40 - Feb 6 by STID2017 |
I think it is a question of respect, for me anyway.
I respect people like Struel and his board, Dougie Sharp, and countless others who have gambled and mostly lost by investing their own money out of a love for the club, more than investment brokers who are gambling with other peoples money and ultimately do not care if we succeed or fail ( other than for the financial gain of their companies) |
You do know it’s not their job to do that though don’t you? Largely owners are there to apportion club generated money to different departments to ensure it runs sustainably.
Putting external money in isn’t a requirement at all for the job description.
I certainly wouldn’t want these guys to risk their futures on a football club, I wouldn’t recommend anyone do that.
I’m unsure of where the narrative of them not caring comes from though. If they didn’t care then they wouldn’t do it. | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 22:36 - Feb 6 with 934 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 22:10 - Feb 6 by Boundy |
They yanks were prefered by those who were only concerned about their own self interests and not the Clubs and where they get the money from is more than relevant . |
It was both.
They wanted to cash out (as they are perfectly entitled to have done) and I would have done the same considering the wage bill alone almost entirely engulfed income.
The new ownership group had the ability to source external funds so were a better fit for us. That has proven itself to be true with JS’s investment and the investment from others matching that.
Just because the first one is true it doesn’t mean the second one isn’t. Both are provable facts. [Post edited 6 Feb 2023 22:37]
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 22:44 - Feb 6 with 928 views | STID2017 |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 22:32 - Feb 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
You do know it’s not their job to do that though don’t you? Largely owners are there to apportion club generated money to different departments to ensure it runs sustainably.
Putting external money in isn’t a requirement at all for the job description.
I certainly wouldn’t want these guys to risk their futures on a football club, I wouldn’t recommend anyone do that.
I’m unsure of where the narrative of them not caring comes from though. If they didn’t care then they wouldn’t do it. |
Just cast your mind back to the film Trading Places.
Though fiction, probably echoed around the world in fact.
Guys gamble on whether OJ, pork bellies, sweetcorn, etc go up or down in value.
They care not one jot about the farmers who produce and sell those products and whose livelihood depends on the market value of their produce.
A crude analogy I know, but in the same way the owners are the same as those two brothers in Trading Places.
Gambling on stocks and shares and investments to make money for their clients, which is their only concern ( and should be as a business ) so they care no more about a little club in South Wales than they do about potato farmers in Idaho.
The only thing they care about is their bottom line.
Certainly agree I wouldn't recommend anyone "investing" their money in a football club, but I still admire those who do, as it is usually done for love of the club, not any prospective financial gain. | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 23:10 - Feb 6 with 916 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 22:44 - Feb 6 by STID2017 |
Just cast your mind back to the film Trading Places.
Though fiction, probably echoed around the world in fact.
Guys gamble on whether OJ, pork bellies, sweetcorn, etc go up or down in value.
They care not one jot about the farmers who produce and sell those products and whose livelihood depends on the market value of their produce.
A crude analogy I know, but in the same way the owners are the same as those two brothers in Trading Places.
Gambling on stocks and shares and investments to make money for their clients, which is their only concern ( and should be as a business ) so they care no more about a little club in South Wales than they do about potato farmers in Idaho.
The only thing they care about is their bottom line.
Certainly agree I wouldn't recommend anyone "investing" their money in a football club, but I still admire those who do, as it is usually done for love of the club, not any prospective financial gain. |
Then why would they take the time to address supporters, give extra money, watch the games?
I’m pretty sure if you invested in sweetcorn, you wouldn’t bother making multiple international trips to watch people pack it.
But again, to strip your complaint back, the last owners were Swansea fans whether people believe it or not - yet they didn’t put any of their own money in and cashed out for a profit.
So regardless of background, regardless of motive (whether financial or simply because they are kind) the desires are aligned - for the club to do well.
So of course there is a large financial element to any investment, I’m sure they wouldn’t deny that… but that doesn’t mean you don’t care about it. It’s not a passive stock investment like you suggest, it’s not comparable.
Their goal is to invest in a company, grow it, make it successful for everyone involved (including the supporters and wider community) and as a result make a return. Not sure why that is being seen as a negative.
Let’s be honest here, there is absolutely nothing they could do in order to make you happy. The club isn’t performing well, so your disappointment has to fall somewhere. You don’t want to put that on Russell (despite the clear managerial failings) so have chosen the ownership, nothing I could say or prove to you would change that.
For example you said they don’t put money in. I showed you they did (to club record levels) so it was moved to “they don’t risk everything they have”, which is clearly a ludicrous suggestion.
It’s a discussion that can have no sensible outcome. | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 09:22 - Feb 7 with 856 views | STID2017 |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 23:10 - Feb 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
Then why would they take the time to address supporters, give extra money, watch the games?
I’m pretty sure if you invested in sweetcorn, you wouldn’t bother making multiple international trips to watch people pack it.
But again, to strip your complaint back, the last owners were Swansea fans whether people believe it or not - yet they didn’t put any of their own money in and cashed out for a profit.
So regardless of background, regardless of motive (whether financial or simply because they are kind) the desires are aligned - for the club to do well.
So of course there is a large financial element to any investment, I’m sure they wouldn’t deny that… but that doesn’t mean you don’t care about it. It’s not a passive stock investment like you suggest, it’s not comparable.
Their goal is to invest in a company, grow it, make it successful for everyone involved (including the supporters and wider community) and as a result make a return. Not sure why that is being seen as a negative.
Let’s be honest here, there is absolutely nothing they could do in order to make you happy. The club isn’t performing well, so your disappointment has to fall somewhere. You don’t want to put that on Russell (despite the clear managerial failings) so have chosen the ownership, nothing I could say or prove to you would change that.
For example you said they don’t put money in. I showed you they did (to club record levels) so it was moved to “they don’t risk everything they have”, which is clearly a ludicrous suggestion.
It’s a discussion that can have no sensible outcome. |
Your posts on here previously have given the clear impression that Jake S has put £16 million of his own money in.
Then when I raised the point about owners putting their own personal money in, which I felt is more of a commitment, you countered to say why did it matter if it was his own personal money or that of the investment company ( a world of difference by the way)
Had they taken us to the promised " Next Level " and sold us to better owners to carry on the upward trend and walked away with a profit then no one would be complaining.
They have clearly made a bad investment and we appear to be on a downward spiral.
On the field I worry that we could end up dragged into a relegation fight.
If we were relegated then any decent players we have would be sold and the pot would be empty.
We could then end up being in a bad way financially.
As for Martin, I hope an amicable agreement is reached and he can walk away.
He looks a beaten man, partly by his determination to play a certain style but also largely by the shocking behaviour of the owners in the last window.
As for Jake S and the other owners caring for the club, do you honestly believe that when they walk away after selling the club off, they will be anywhere near SA1 ever again ? Of course not.
I disagree when you say nothing they could do would make me happy.
Of course like every fan I would love to have seen us successful under their ownership and still competing in the Premiership.
The fact that we are not is partly but not wholly due to their incompetence as owners.
I feel Russell Martin has done everything earnestly with regards to this club, but like the owners, his time is up too.
I blame him for on field catastrophes like the last 30 minutes of last Saturday's game.
However the off field shenanigans of the owners cannot be defended either | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 09:39 - Feb 7 with 852 views | guthrieintherain |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 21:40 - Feb 6 by STID2017 |
I think it is a question of respect, for me anyway.
I respect people like Struel and his board, Dougie Sharp, and countless others who have gambled and mostly lost by investing their own money out of a love for the club, more than investment brokers who are gambling with other peoples money and ultimately do not care if we succeed or fail ( other than for the financial gain of their companies) |
Dougie and Malcom did care about the club but where did we end up.
Remember the chants about Dougie as well he was never fully appreciated at the club
Fans always want owners to spend more and are then the first to shout when it all goes pear shaped. [Post edited 7 Feb 2023 9:40]
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 09:48 - Feb 7 with 834 views | STID2017 |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 09:39 - Feb 7 by guthrieintherain |
Dougie and Malcom did care about the club but where did we end up.
Remember the chants about Dougie as well he was never fully appreciated at the club
Fans always want owners to spend more and are then the first to shout when it all goes pear shaped. [Post edited 7 Feb 2023 9:40]
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I totally agree that we always complain no matter which owners they are when things go pear shaped.
Certainly remember the chants aimed at Doug Sharpe.
Some of the events at the time were unsavoury.
I think there was passion on both sides at that time.
The big difference is the passion is one sided.
I agree as fans we always want the penny and the bun though | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 10:10 - Feb 7 with 821 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 09:22 - Feb 7 by STID2017 |
Your posts on here previously have given the clear impression that Jake S has put £16 million of his own money in.
Then when I raised the point about owners putting their own personal money in, which I felt is more of a commitment, you countered to say why did it matter if it was his own personal money or that of the investment company ( a world of difference by the way)
Had they taken us to the promised " Next Level " and sold us to better owners to carry on the upward trend and walked away with a profit then no one would be complaining.
They have clearly made a bad investment and we appear to be on a downward spiral.
On the field I worry that we could end up dragged into a relegation fight.
If we were relegated then any decent players we have would be sold and the pot would be empty.
We could then end up being in a bad way financially.
As for Martin, I hope an amicable agreement is reached and he can walk away.
He looks a beaten man, partly by his determination to play a certain style but also largely by the shocking behaviour of the owners in the last window.
As for Jake S and the other owners caring for the club, do you honestly believe that when they walk away after selling the club off, they will be anywhere near SA1 ever again ? Of course not.
I disagree when you say nothing they could do would make me happy.
Of course like every fan I would love to have seen us successful under their ownership and still competing in the Premiership.
The fact that we are not is partly but not wholly due to their incompetence as owners.
I feel Russell Martin has done everything earnestly with regards to this club, but like the owners, his time is up too.
I blame him for on field catastrophes like the last 30 minutes of last Saturday's game.
However the off field shenanigans of the owners cannot be defended either |
I never said JS had put £16m of his own money in. £5m from my knowledge, what % of that is made up of his own personal wealth, we don’t know. A hefty chunk I would guess considering he now has a 12.5% shareholding.
Where did they promise to take us to the “next level”? That’s a myth, one that keeps getting repeated. Jenkins made the “next level” comment regarding why the sold, on the topic of sourcing external funding. That has proven itself accurate.
There is no off field shenanigans. Where we are is squarely on the management shoulders. Off the field we are being kept afloat, it’s highly commendable.
But if you have new owners in mind then let me know, I’ll take a look. Pretty sure you asked the same with regards to a manager didn’t you?
However considering in over 100 years of history we have owners now who have spent more than any other, that in itself shows it’s pretty rare to have owners of this calibre, they don’t grow on trees. | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 10:43 - Feb 7 with 801 views | whiterock |
All clubs have peaks and troughs, mid table championship (which most of us old guard would have given a right arm for 20 years ago) isn't too shabby.
I genuinely believe we are in a false position and should be pushing for at least a play off if RM played to our strengths and was a little more pragmatic, 3 points lost on Saturday in a game that was there for the taking, plenty of other games where we have dropped points needlessly.
As for the club being up for sale, I'd say every club has a price, we are no different, but there are no takers. | | | |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 11:27 - Feb 7 with 783 views | STID2017 |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 10:43 - Feb 7 by whiterock |
All clubs have peaks and troughs, mid table championship (which most of us old guard would have given a right arm for 20 years ago) isn't too shabby.
I genuinely believe we are in a false position and should be pushing for at least a play off if RM played to our strengths and was a little more pragmatic, 3 points lost on Saturday in a game that was there for the taking, plenty of other games where we have dropped points needlessly.
As for the club being up for sale, I'd say every club has a price, we are no different, but there are no takers. |
I honestly don't see any takers until we reach bottom dollar.
This won't happen until we get relegated | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 11:54 - Feb 7 with 774 views | whiterock |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 11:27 - Feb 7 by STID2017 |
I honestly don't see any takers until we reach bottom dollar.
This won't happen until we get relegated |
Has the world has moved on?, we've had Brexit, the pandemic and the war in Ukraine, does this make the pool of potential buyers smaller? | | | |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 12:01 - Feb 7 with 771 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 10:43 - Feb 7 by whiterock |
All clubs have peaks and troughs, mid table championship (which most of us old guard would have given a right arm for 20 years ago) isn't too shabby.
I genuinely believe we are in a false position and should be pushing for at least a play off if RM played to our strengths and was a little more pragmatic, 3 points lost on Saturday in a game that was there for the taking, plenty of other games where we have dropped points needlessly.
As for the club being up for sale, I'd say every club has a price, we are no different, but there are no takers. |
Of course we would have taken that 20 years ago, we were in League 2.
There is many things I would have happily taken 20 years ago that I would not accept now.
20 years ago we would have taken spending 400k a year on players. Yet I’m not seeing that as an excuse, it’s only used to conveniently cover managerial failings. | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 13:09 - Feb 7 with 738 views | STID2017 |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 11:54 - Feb 7 by whiterock |
Has the world has moved on?, we've had Brexit, the pandemic and the war in Ukraine, does this make the pool of potential buyers smaller? |
IMHO there are still potential buyers out there.
However what they would pay and what the owners would accept are I believe worlds apart | |
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| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 14:09 - Feb 7 with 719 views | whiterock |
| Have any other previous owners spent more than these ones? on 13:09 - Feb 7 by STID2017 |
IMHO there are still potential buyers out there.
However what they would pay and what the owners would accept are I believe worlds apart |
There probably are buyers out there and your right on what the owners want and what they are offered could be miles apart.
We all think a little investment would see us back in the PL, Stoke are still trying that route but the difference is that they have a local billionaire bankrolling them, we have prudent American businessmen who'll only spend when they have it.
Man City might be the glamour club that we all aspire too be but that could all come crashing down if the allegations of yesterday are anything to go by. | | | |
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