| So many police 22:33 - Nov 19 with 32429 views | BlackCrowe |
and one end of S Africa blocked off after the match.....looked like they were expecting big things. Didn't see anything untoward. |  |
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| So many police on 16:27 - Nov 22 with 2760 views | Bruno4England |
| So many police on 16:09 - Nov 22 by Konk |
This never makes sense to me, but you always hear people who were/are involved in football violence coming out with this argument. Using you and Luton as an example, there will be Rangers fans arguing that if it hadn’t been for your mob back in the day, trips to Luton would have been much worse for normal fans, and I’m sure you’ll find Luton hooligans saying the same about trips to Loftus Road. But the truth is that if everyone who wanted to fight at the football just fu cked-off, everyone else could have a hassle-free match day, drink where they want, no bubbles, dry trains, early kick-offs etc.
Every person ever involved in football violence seems to argue that they never attacked scarfers, only went at it with like-minded opponents etc, but that’s bo blocks because I know loads of people who’ve been started on who have never been into that scene. It’s people justifying their bullying, violent, antisocial behaviour. True, on the odd occasion a load of your own idiots running round the corner might get you out of bother, but there’s a fair chance that something your idiots did previously was the reason you were in trouble in the first place. These tit-for-tat reprisals have a habit of involving innocent people and businesses as pubs and stuff get smashed up. I genuinely don’t think most fans think of their firm as guardian angels, I think most people see them as an embarrassing pain in the ar se, especially when it’s coked-up fat blokes in their 50’s and early 60’s bowling round with a load of youngsters in tow. |
'But the truth is that if everyone who wanted to fight at the football just fu cked-off, everyone else could have a hassle-free match day'
I agree but the reality is that unless all firms had ceased to exist at the same time there would be a vacuum in which a group would step into.
Was/is everyone in the QPR firm a 'Lovely Geezer'? Absolutely not and on another thread I mentioned someone who was banned for only 3 years for attempting to throw a Luton fan off the top tier when it should have been a lifetime ban and a prison sentence. How much respect should I have for him? Zero.
But some firms did break a code and attack scarfers and they would have done so without the firm being there. Luton away is the best example anyone can give but they weren't the only ones by far.
Ask any QPR fan who was at Loftus Road in 1997 when Portsmouth tried to get into The Loft to attack anyone they could how they felt when they saw some top blokes heading over towards them to stop them. How many were thinking 'I wish we didn't have these people at my club'?
In an ideal world they wouldn't exist but they do and sometimes a lot of people should be rather greatful that they do.. Its not black/white, never has been, never will be. |  | | |
| So many police on 16:46 - Nov 22 with 2659 views | Antti_Heinola |
| So many police on 16:27 - Nov 22 by Bruno4England |
'But the truth is that if everyone who wanted to fight at the football just fu cked-off, everyone else could have a hassle-free match day'
I agree but the reality is that unless all firms had ceased to exist at the same time there would be a vacuum in which a group would step into.
Was/is everyone in the QPR firm a 'Lovely Geezer'? Absolutely not and on another thread I mentioned someone who was banned for only 3 years for attempting to throw a Luton fan off the top tier when it should have been a lifetime ban and a prison sentence. How much respect should I have for him? Zero.
But some firms did break a code and attack scarfers and they would have done so without the firm being there. Luton away is the best example anyone can give but they weren't the only ones by far.
Ask any QPR fan who was at Loftus Road in 1997 when Portsmouth tried to get into The Loft to attack anyone they could how they felt when they saw some top blokes heading over towards them to stop them. How many were thinking 'I wish we didn't have these people at my club'?
In an ideal world they wouldn't exist but they do and sometimes a lot of people should be rather greatful that they do.. Its not black/white, never has been, never will be. |
I was at that game in 97 and the whole thing made me feel sick. I certanly wasn't there thinking 'well, thank goodness we have some hoolies to protect us from those hoolies'.
I've been going to football since the late 70s and I've never even heard the word 'scarfer' since you appeared on here the other day using it. |  |
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| So many police on 16:57 - Nov 22 with 2589 views | Konk |
| So many police on 16:27 - Nov 22 by Bruno4England |
'But the truth is that if everyone who wanted to fight at the football just fu cked-off, everyone else could have a hassle-free match day'
I agree but the reality is that unless all firms had ceased to exist at the same time there would be a vacuum in which a group would step into.
Was/is everyone in the QPR firm a 'Lovely Geezer'? Absolutely not and on another thread I mentioned someone who was banned for only 3 years for attempting to throw a Luton fan off the top tier when it should have been a lifetime ban and a prison sentence. How much respect should I have for him? Zero.
But some firms did break a code and attack scarfers and they would have done so without the firm being there. Luton away is the best example anyone can give but they weren't the only ones by far.
Ask any QPR fan who was at Loftus Road in 1997 when Portsmouth tried to get into The Loft to attack anyone they could how they felt when they saw some top blokes heading over towards them to stop them. How many were thinking 'I wish we didn't have these people at my club'?
In an ideal world they wouldn't exist but they do and sometimes a lot of people should be rather greatful that they do.. Its not black/white, never has been, never will be. |
I just think this code stuff is a load of old pony. I’ve seen ‘scarfers’ being attacked at half the grounds in the country over the years, and have been on my toes or had to talk my way out of situations plenty of times too. Plan A might always be to find “like-minded blokes”, but if that doesn’t happen, any opposition fans would often be fair game in my experience.
And these things escalate. Bristol City had a pop at a Millwall pub, so the next season, some Millwall youngsters came down on the Friday before their game at the Gate, had a go at the main CSF pub before getting chased-off. They went round the corner to another pub, City turned up ten minutes later, all the windows got put through, furniture smashed-up etc. That would be “like-minded” blokes going at it, but a pub full of normal people ended up being in the middle of a massive row, and the pub was shut for a week, with the owner getting their insurance caned. And then you have the police running round all night trying to catch the divs when they could be doing other things. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| So many police on 17:26 - Nov 22 with 2446 views | Bruno4England |
| So many police on 16:46 - Nov 22 by Antti_Heinola |
I was at that game in 97 and the whole thing made me feel sick. I certanly wasn't there thinking 'well, thank goodness we have some hoolies to protect us from those hoolies'.
I've been going to football since the late 70s and I've never even heard the word 'scarfer' since you appeared on here the other day using it. |
And if there had been no QPR willing to fight them and people in the Loft had been attacked you would have felt worse.
As for the word scarfers, I honestly don't know what to say as it is a common word used during discussions about hooliganism. | | | |
| So many police on 17:39 - Nov 22 with 2392 views | barbicanranger |
| So many police on 16:46 - Nov 22 by Antti_Heinola |
I was at that game in 97 and the whole thing made me feel sick. I certanly wasn't there thinking 'well, thank goodness we have some hoolies to protect us from those hoolies'.
I've been going to football since the late 70s and I've never even heard the word 'scarfer' since you appeared on here the other day using it. |
The "firm" banter and vernacular has definitely been trending on here the last few days...
I'm all for atmosphere, singing, etc. but the element of society that goes to football looking for a screw I can do without. |  | | |
| So many police on 17:44 - Nov 22 with 2370 views | Antti_Heinola |
| So many police on 17:26 - Nov 22 by Bruno4England |
And if there had been no QPR willing to fight them and people in the Loft had been attacked you would have felt worse.
As for the word scarfers, I honestly don't know what to say as it is a common word used during discussions about hooliganism. |
my recollection is it was horrible, but reasonably short-lived and the authorities sorted it out, Sheffield, sorry, Bruno. But it was 25 years ago. I was in the Loft but it was mainly up in Q Block if memory serves.
Scarfers has obviously just passed me by for some reason. I think a better term is probably 'fans' isn't it? I don't really think of people who go to football looking for a fight as fans, so I'm not sure why a new term is needed, especially as it has (maybe I'm imagining it) a bit of an undertone of contempt. | |
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| So many police on 17:44 - Nov 22 with 2371 views | Bruno4England |
| So many police on 17:39 - Nov 22 by barbicanranger |
The "firm" banter and vernacular has definitely been trending on here the last few days...
I'm all for atmosphere, singing, etc. but the element of society that goes to football looking for a screw I can do without. |
Banter? Where has anyone tried to make a joke about this?
Whether or not the Luton fan came for a fight or not someone could lose someone they love which is dreadful.
What is also dreadful is that almost everyone knows QPR fans will be attacked at Kenilworth Road and we begin another cycle of violence because the club and the Police made such stupid mistakes.
Banter, for fuk sake. Nothing to laugh at here. | | | |
| So many police on 17:44 - Nov 22 with 2371 views | Logman |
| So many police on 20:35 - Nov 21 by TomS |
Wow. I note his final word of advice, after that experience, is "Come to a QPR match, you'll enjoy it. But don't come as an away fan!". |
What impression/effect must all those police and the antics have on any kids attending the match ?
So sad | | | |
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| So many police on 17:52 - Nov 22 with 2319 views | Bruno4England |
| So many police on 17:44 - Nov 22 by Antti_Heinola |
my recollection is it was horrible, but reasonably short-lived and the authorities sorted it out, Sheffield, sorry, Bruno. But it was 25 years ago. I was in the Loft but it was mainly up in Q Block if memory serves.
Scarfers has obviously just passed me by for some reason. I think a better term is probably 'fans' isn't it? I don't really think of people who go to football looking for a fight as fans, so I'm not sure why a new term is needed, especially as it has (maybe I'm imagining it) a bit of an undertone of contempt. |
The Police had to send for specialists because they didn't have them at Loftus Road. They took 10 minutes to arrive.
It was those QPR fans who decided to fight back that stopped Portsmouth in their tracks.
There is no contempt in the use of the word scarfers. It's just a term and I am happy to be called a scarfer 👠| | | |
| So many police on 17:57 - Nov 22 with 2285 views | Bruno4England |
| So many police on 17:44 - Nov 22 by Antti_Heinola |
my recollection is it was horrible, but reasonably short-lived and the authorities sorted it out, Sheffield, sorry, Bruno. But it was 25 years ago. I was in the Loft but it was mainly up in Q Block if memory serves.
Scarfers has obviously just passed me by for some reason. I think a better term is probably 'fans' isn't it? I don't really think of people who go to football looking for a fight as fans, so I'm not sure why a new term is needed, especially as it has (maybe I'm imagining it) a bit of an undertone of contempt. |
https://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/99-Crowd-control-&-policing/6519-guilty-by
Must say that I forgot the tannoy man seemed to critise the QPR fans who fought back.... Seriously... | | | |
| So many police on 18:02 - Nov 22 with 2245 views | SheffieldHoop |
| So many police on 17:44 - Nov 22 by Antti_Heinola |
my recollection is it was horrible, but reasonably short-lived and the authorities sorted it out, Sheffield, sorry, Bruno. But it was 25 years ago. I was in the Loft but it was mainly up in Q Block if memory serves.
Scarfers has obviously just passed me by for some reason. I think a better term is probably 'fans' isn't it? I don't really think of people who go to football looking for a fight as fans, so I'm not sure why a new term is needed, especially as it has (maybe I'm imagining it) a bit of an undertone of contempt. |
FWIW I'm too young to even be at the Portsmouth game, so no way I'd be sat here talking about it like this. I literally wasn't there.
Ask Clive for my Insta if you really wanna stalk me, creep x |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| So many police on 18:35 - Nov 22 with 2163 views | nix |
| So many police on 17:44 - Nov 22 by Bruno4England |
Banter? Where has anyone tried to make a joke about this?
Whether or not the Luton fan came for a fight or not someone could lose someone they love which is dreadful.
What is also dreadful is that almost everyone knows QPR fans will be attacked at Kenilworth Road and we begin another cycle of violence because the club and the Police made such stupid mistakes.
Banter, for fuk sake. Nothing to laugh at here. |
But it isn't binary, though. I don't want fifty year old blokes, or anyone at all, coming to the club inciting violence.
I also don't want QPR fans getting involved with violence as it stops genuine fans from attending with their children or at all, causes trouble for the club and the police and spoils it for the vast majority.
Why should QPR fans be attacked at KR? There's literally no excuse for it. If one idiot does a terrible thing, it doesn't give licence to people to commit similar offences using revenge to justify it. If a Luton fan shoplifted in Shepherds Bush it wouldn't make it ok for a QPR fan to go and do similar in Luton.
I'm not sure what the club could have done. I would assume they take advice from the police. As has been repeated on here they cannot keep the away fans in after the match. The incident with the Luton fan happened in Uxbridge Road. I'm not sure how many police you'd need to manage the whole of Uxbridge Road, Shepherds Bush Green etc. There has to be some elements of personal responsibility, like dispersing quickly and leaving for the station.
I don't know what it's like at KR and I have no intention of ever going there now, but I do know that we have many other teams' fans at LR and they walk past each other at the end of the match, win or lose with literally no trouble. I hope Luton has the same but really the fact that our clubs are within an hours drive of each other shouldn't mean we have to beat each other up. |  | | |
| So many police on 18:41 - Nov 22 with 2127 views | Maggsinho |
| So many police on 17:39 - Nov 22 by barbicanranger |
The "firm" banter and vernacular has definitely been trending on here the last few days...
I'm all for atmosphere, singing, etc. but the element of society that goes to football looking for a screw I can do without. |
It’s like a sequel to Green Street. Elijah Wood will be along soon dripping his aitches. |  | | |
| So many police on 18:56 - Nov 22 with 2061 views | Bruno4England |
| So many police on 18:35 - Nov 22 by nix |
But it isn't binary, though. I don't want fifty year old blokes, or anyone at all, coming to the club inciting violence.
I also don't want QPR fans getting involved with violence as it stops genuine fans from attending with their children or at all, causes trouble for the club and the police and spoils it for the vast majority.
Why should QPR fans be attacked at KR? There's literally no excuse for it. If one idiot does a terrible thing, it doesn't give licence to people to commit similar offences using revenge to justify it. If a Luton fan shoplifted in Shepherds Bush it wouldn't make it ok for a QPR fan to go and do similar in Luton.
I'm not sure what the club could have done. I would assume they take advice from the police. As has been repeated on here they cannot keep the away fans in after the match. The incident with the Luton fan happened in Uxbridge Road. I'm not sure how many police you'd need to manage the whole of Uxbridge Road, Shepherds Bush Green etc. There has to be some elements of personal responsibility, like dispersing quickly and leaving for the station.
I don't know what it's like at KR and I have no intention of ever going there now, but I do know that we have many other teams' fans at LR and they walk past each other at the end of the match, win or lose with literally no trouble. I hope Luton has the same but really the fact that our clubs are within an hours drive of each other shouldn't mean we have to beat each other up. |
"As has been repeated on here they cannot keep the away fans in after the match"
They can be kept in, someone said it was illegal but that was debunked.
'I also don't want QPR fans getting involved with violence'
I cringed when I saw QPR lads invade the pitch at Stockport in 94 to fight their fans because they had the audacity to celebrate a cup win against a Premier League side. Would have happily seen those banned.
But I still applaud the QPR fans who fought back against the Portsmouth fans in 1997, those who protected us at Leeds in 1987 and those who came to our rescue in Oxford in 1997 when a group of ordinary fans, including myself, were being threatened by the Oxford firm. | | | |
| So many police on 19:07 - Nov 22 with 1999 views | Antti_Heinola |
| So many police on 18:02 - Nov 22 by SheffieldHoop |
FWIW I'm too young to even be at the Portsmouth game, so no way I'd be sat here talking about it like this. I literally wasn't there.
Ask Clive for my Insta if you really wanna stalk me, creep x |
Apologies Sheff. You just both post in such a similar manner. No need for Insta follows. It’s definitely a coincidence that you don’t seem to have posted since September 3rd (Bruno only appeared just the other day) but the moment I mention ‘Sheffield’ (and there is more than one ‘Sheff-related’ handle on here, so not sure why you’d be so positive i meant you?) you see it within five minutes of it being online and are posting numerous messages again.
I don’t mind, I’m probably wrong - I usually am as loads on here who haven’t blocked me would attest. But still, seems a bit weird. Then again, life is full of coincidences! And clive has said before you’re a top bloke, so i’m probably barking up the wrong tree. | |
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| So many police on 19:13 - Nov 22 with 1960 views | SheffieldHoop |
| So many police on 19:07 - Nov 22 by Antti_Heinola |
Apologies Sheff. You just both post in such a similar manner. No need for Insta follows. It’s definitely a coincidence that you don’t seem to have posted since September 3rd (Bruno only appeared just the other day) but the moment I mention ‘Sheffield’ (and there is more than one ‘Sheff-related’ handle on here, so not sure why you’d be so positive i meant you?) you see it within five minutes of it being online and are posting numerous messages again.
I don’t mind, I’m probably wrong - I usually am as loads on here who haven’t blocked me would attest. But still, seems a bit weird. Then again, life is full of coincidences! And clive has said before you’re a top bloke, so i’m probably barking up the wrong tree. |
lol
Weird | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| So many police on 19:23 - Nov 22 with 1926 views | eastside_r |
| So many police on 17:44 - Nov 22 by Antti_Heinola |
my recollection is it was horrible, but reasonably short-lived and the authorities sorted it out, Sheffield, sorry, Bruno. But it was 25 years ago. I was in the Loft but it was mainly up in Q Block if memory serves.
Scarfers has obviously just passed me by for some reason. I think a better term is probably 'fans' isn't it? I don't really think of people who go to football looking for a fight as fans, so I'm not sure why a new term is needed, especially as it has (maybe I'm imagining it) a bit of an undertone of contempt. |
You’re absolutely right, it does have an undertone of contempt.
Sadly, I was aware of the term ‘scarfers’ but it is only used by hooligans, wannabe hooligans and their apologists.
I have also heard hooligans refer to ordinary fans as ‘shirters’, although this is less common. |  | | |
| So many police on 19:29 - Nov 22 with 1895 views | Bruno4England |
| So many police on 19:23 - Nov 22 by eastside_r |
You’re absolutely right, it does have an undertone of contempt.
Sadly, I was aware of the term ‘scarfers’ but it is only used by hooligans, wannabe hooligans and their apologists.
I have also heard hooligans refer to ordinary fans as ‘shirters’, although this is less common. |
"Sadly, I was aware of the term ‘scarfers’ but it is only used by hooligans, wannabe hooligans and their apologists."
That's nonsense. It's always been a term to divide those who turn up only to see their team play and those who turn up happy to have a fight.
It's used in serious articles and in pubs alike. There's no contempt at all. | | | |
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