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What a bunch of absolute cnts. Attacked my 11 year old stepson by nandos after the game, and my 16 year old stepson has ended up being arrested for kicking one of the cnts in the head to get him off his brother.
I was then arrested for defending myself against two of the cnts, and then de-arrested when it became clear I was only defending myself.
Sat at home now with grazed nuckles and want feels like a cracked rib.
Why, just why do we let these arseholes out at the same time to cause fcking havoc?
'Hold them back after the carnival for an hour and then slowly release them 1000 at a time with an escort back to the train station even if it takes until 9pm or longer.
Make sure the Notting Hill Carnival Ltd are full responsible for the costs of extra policing'
Strange how a few changes of words can expose the hypocrisy of some who are normally so left wing and anti discrimination....
Just saying.
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 8:38]
There is a poster called Sheffield Hoop who has similar views. You guys should definitely have a chat as I reckon you’d get on.
There is a poster called Sheffield Hoop who has similar views. You guys should definitely have a chat as I reckon you’d get on.
As I said last week, I'm a Blairite.
I don't know how Sheffield votes/thinks but I try to get on with people regardless of their politics. In fact, it's more interesting, and healthy, having friends who have different views.
Having seen Esox's input to this site, .org and RFI for a number of years I think it's fairly safe to say that if anyone pointed out the crime statistics for the Carnival and the cost to the taxpayer and suggested that there should be measures in place similar to those he proposed for Millwall fans, he'd be quick off the blocks to cry racism.
If you don't see the hypocrisy in that that's your prerogative but maybe, just maybe, people having one set of rules for one and not another is ok by your standards?
I don't know how Sheffield votes/thinks but I try to get on with people regardless of their politics. In fact, it's more interesting, and healthy, having friends who have different views.
Having seen Esox's input to this site, .org and RFI for a number of years I think it's fairly safe to say that if anyone pointed out the crime statistics for the Carnival and the cost to the taxpayer and suggested that there should be measures in place similar to those he proposed for Millwall fans, he'd be quick off the blocks to cry racism.
If you don't see the hypocrisy in that that's your prerogative but maybe, just maybe, people having one set of rules for one and not another is ok by your standards?
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 9:49]
I'm not sure you can call someone a hypocrite for something you'd presume they would say about a different situation, that isn't necessarily even comparable.
I'm not sure you can call someone a hypocrite for something you'd presume they would say about a different situation, that isn't necessarily even comparable.
Yes it is.
He was suggesting solutions to issues caused by a minority of Millwall fans that would affect the majority. I was showing how if someone suggested the same measures for an event with infamous problems with a minority of attendees and astronomical police costs it wouldn't be acceptable to Esox.
Also, if you don't know how he would respond to such suggestions about the Carnival then you haven't been paying attention to him... This isn't speculation.
Something has to be done, but probably won't be. It'll be "society's problem".
Millwall have a high proportion of violent fans, have a bigger problem with racism than most clubs and - worse imo - have a high proportion of fans who make apologies for both. It's been many decades now.
There's no excusing their vicious violence. None.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
'Hold them back after the carnival for an hour and then slowly release them 1000 at a time with an escort back to the train station even if it takes until 9pm or longer.
Make sure the Notting Hill Carnival Ltd are full responsible for the costs of extra policing'
Strange how a few changes of words can expose the hypocrisy of some who are normally so left wing and anti discrimination....
Just saying.
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 8:38]
Not remotely comparable events or crowd size. One is a couple of thousand people in the same section of a football stadium, mostly heading in the same direction afterwards. Control could be easily applied to that situation and its been done often before at many grounds (including Millwall).
The other is a huge festival in the streets with far bigger numbers. Not the same kind of thing at all. But you knew that...
I don't know how Sheffield votes/thinks but I try to get on with people regardless of their politics. In fact, it's more interesting, and healthy, having friends who have different views.
Having seen Esox's input to this site, .org and RFI for a number of years I think it's fairly safe to say that if anyone pointed out the crime statistics for the Carnival and the cost to the taxpayer and suggested that there should be measures in place similar to those he proposed for Millwall fans, he'd be quick off the blocks to cry racism.
If you don't see the hypocrisy in that that's your prerogative but maybe, just maybe, people having one set of rules for one and not another is ok by your standards?
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 9:49]
Not really up for a debate to be honest, just putting you in touch with a similar minded R.
Something has to be done, but probably won't be. It'll be "society's problem".
Millwall have a high proportion of violent fans, have a bigger problem with racism than most clubs and - worse imo - have a high proportion of fans who make apologies for both. It's been many decades now.
There's no excusing their vicious violence. None.
Brian,
Please feel free to point me in the direction of any posts where someone has defended their violence or racism.
Something has to be done, but probably won't be. It'll be "society's problem".
Millwall have a high proportion of violent fans, have a bigger problem with racism than most clubs and - worse imo - have a high proportion of fans who make apologies for both. It's been many decades now.
There's no excusing their vicious violence. None.
Massive problem with racism there, they attract that type of person. A review of some of their message boards tells the tale.
A lot of them revel in it, the intimidation of families, kids etc. Pathetic, and many of them 50 or older. Embarrassing. They are the only lot I've ever seen first hand just randomly attacking anyone in their way. Any of us could mob up and do that, but we're not all cnts.
No, no evidence. They've left it pending but the duty solicitor said if there was evidence they'd have charged him.
Also while I'm at it, a massive thank you to the staff at the kebab restaurant just along from nandos. They took the younger one inside and sat him down and looked after him while the chaos went on outside. The better side of humanity right there
what's the name of this restaurant and i will give them my business one evening this week
Massive problem with racism there, they attract that type of person. A review of some of their message boards tells the tale.
A lot of them revel in it, the intimidation of families, kids etc. Pathetic, and many of them 50 or older. Embarrassing. They are the only lot I've ever seen first hand just randomly attacking anyone in their way. Any of us could mob up and do that, but we're not all cnts.
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 10:26]
With regards to the message boards, I agree with what BazzaR said on the 'Lovely lot' thread:
"The stuff said on that forum is not much different to what’s said on WATRB and on here occasionally to be honest"
Maybe there's something about being treated/thought of as a person/group because of how a minority act that I don't like.....
I tell you what I would really hate, is to be a regular Carnival attendee and being judged because a minority of idiots turn up and rob/deal/carry weapons when the vast majority are just enjoying the music and food... As a man who is proud of his Irish heritage I definitely hated my Gran being spat at by the NF in Camberwell in 1981 because they associated all Irish people as IRA supporters...
Lucky enough being a fan base with a proud Irish connection and an ethically diverse crowd we are free from anyone judging any community by the actions of a minority and not one of us would propose draconian solutions which affect a majority of good, decent people...
To be fair, last time we went to the Den in September 2019 (Nakhi's 2-1 win) we weren't caged in at the end, and were allowed out the gate to go home to Lewisham. Weren't ambushed outside either. It had given me hope that Millwall were starting to become a normal club.
I think the game im referring to was the one where Shittu played for them, i think we lost 2-0 so it wasnt as though they had the hump, big chunks of plastic being ripped off of some hoarding and thrown over the top and the old bill cowards just watching, never been back.
With regards to the message boards, I agree with what BazzaR said on the 'Lovely lot' thread:
"The stuff said on that forum is not much different to what’s said on WATRB and on here occasionally to be honest"
Maybe there's something about being treated/thought of as a person/group because of how a minority act that I don't like.....
I tell you what I would really hate, is to be a regular Carnival attendee and being judged because a minority of idiots turn up and rob/deal/carry weapons when the vast majority are just enjoying the music and food... As a man who is proud of his Irish heritage I definitely hated my Gran being spat at by the NF in Camberwell in 1981 because they associated all Irish people as IRA supporters...
Lucky enough being a fan base with a proud Irish connection and an ethically diverse crowd we are free from anyone judging any community by the actions of a minority and not one of us would propose draconian solutions which affect a majority of good, decent people...
Thank God for that.
The problem with all that good stuff, 80's_boy, is that Millwall will always get away with their violence as if only 49.9% of them are vicious thugs they can say it's a minority.
The club have to be held accountable. Not the team, not the fans, but the entire club.
P.S. I've read their message boards - some of the racist filth on there is incomparable to anything I've ever seen on a Rangers forum. It's despicable stuff.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
He was suggesting solutions to issues caused by a minority of Millwall fans that would affect the majority. I was showing how if someone suggested the same measures for an event with infamous problems with a minority of attendees and astronomical police costs it wouldn't be acceptable to Esox.
Also, if you don't know how he would respond to such suggestions about the Carnival then you haven't been paying attention to him... This isn't speculation.
I'm afraid it IS speculation. If the police want to use the Carnival to arrest knife carriers, thieves and other serious crimes, even if it is using profiling to do so then I am all behind them doing so. Arresting carnival goers for having a few blunts in their possession is just a cheap shot as they generally tend to be more peaceful, unlike your beloved Millwall who, from looking at their forums, really ARE a bunch of aggressive cünts who love their scrappy image. If you think it is a minority you are deluding yourself.
I'm afraid it IS speculation. If the police want to use the Carnival to arrest knife carriers, thieves and other serious crimes, even if it is using profiling to do so then I am all behind them doing so. Arresting carnival goers for having a few blunts in their possession is just a cheap shot as they generally tend to be more peaceful, unlike your beloved Millwall who, from looking at their forums, really ARE a bunch of aggressive cünts who love their scrappy image. If you think it is a minority you are deluding yourself.
"If you think it is a minority you are deluding yourself"
So, judging from your experience on Saturday and from what you have seen in videos, what percentage of their fans were involved with violence on Saturday?
Genuinely interested though why you act as a constant apologist for Millwall?
Every match I have been too with them turns into a major security exercise that I just don't experience at any other games. Never seen so many horses, helicopters, police vans etc. around HQ for any other games.
Why is that? Because of a tiny tiny minority or because of there is a thought to be a broader risk of trouble breaking out within their wider fanbase? Probability is that it is the latter as the former simply would not justify the response and put them on a par with a normal London derby. The reality is and evidence of incidents around the area again on Saturday is that they have a problem on a scale that no other club has.
Don't apologise for them. They are genuinely a horrible group of fans.
The problem with all that good stuff, 80's_boy, is that Millwall will always get away with their violence as if only 49.9% of them are vicious thugs they can say it's a minority.
The club have to be held accountable. Not the team, not the fans, but the entire club.
P.S. I've read their message boards - some of the racist filth on there is incomparable to anything I've ever seen on a Rangers forum. It's despicable stuff.
If it was as high as 49.9% they would be getting less than 500 tickets for every away match. Even West Ham give them a couple of thousand on the rare occasions they play at Upton Park (obviously now the London stadium.)
A big problem is that, as I said last week, the idiots are too easily accepted over there and even though only a tiny minority are involved with any violence, too many embrace the reputation that comes with being a Millwall fan and, as a consequence, don't/won't challenge the club to eradicate the problem: if our idiots were causing us to be treated very differently I've no doubt that the club would be put under pressure to resolve it.
But at the end of the day it IS a minority of fans who cause trouble over there and on Saturday most Millwall fans behaved themselves. In the 2 videos shared on this thread hundreds walk pass the Shepherd’s Bush scene without causing trouble and in the Nandos video - which runs for less time, of course - dozens walk by minding their own business.
The idiots outside Nandos number about 6 and those involved at Shepherd’s Bush around 10, if that: in fact those involved at Shepherd’s Bush seem to walk pass a number of QPR fans with no incidents taking place and appear to react to something said by those they attack at Shepherd’s Bush. They're still idiots, as is everyone who fights at football, but let's not rule out the possibility that some of our own home grown idiots provoked them or are recognised 'faces' in the yob scene... Not justification by the way...
I won't comment much more on this thread now, but for the most part on Saturday it was no different to experiencing a large following from Leeds, Birmingham, Cardiff or Chelsea for example.
Genuinely interested though why you act as a constant apologist for Millwall?
Every match I have been too with them turns into a major security exercise that I just don't experience at any other games. Never seen so many horses, helicopters, police vans etc. around HQ for any other games.
Why is that? Because of a tiny tiny minority or because of there is a thought to be a broader risk of trouble breaking out within their wider fanbase? Probability is that it is the latter as the former simply would not justify the response and put them on a par with a normal London derby. The reality is and evidence of incidents around the area again on Saturday is that they have a problem on a scale that no other club has.
Don't apologise for them. They are genuinely a horrible group of fans.
Firstly, I'm not an apologist for anyone. I grew up among their fans and as I said on another thread, have seen more than enough shit thrown at their fans and wider area of residents simply because of the action of a minority or, if we're being completely honest, because they are the most white, working class fan base in London. There is a problem with widespread association and tarnishing and it has an effect on the local community. It's not right, it's not fair and if this was people tarnishing other communities for the action of a minority it wouldn't be tolerated.
There is similar police presence whenever we play teams with high-risk fans and if you haven't seen similar scenes at those matches then , to be honest, you're either walking around with your eyes closed or you've been protected/lucky.
No-one is defending idiots who cause trouble at football. If you have ever travelled to a match to throw a punch at someone or intimidate then you are are idiot who shouldn't be allowed near a football ground.
However, my problem is that people automatically judge Millwall fans and people from Bermondsey because of the actions of a minority in a way that few or any do for people who support, for example, Birmingham, Cardiff, Chelsea or people who come from the surrounding neighborhoods.
I think this argument starts and finishes here. They all run a little slower these day, but are there with their spawn and their spawn's spawn. Save your fingers, they don't deserve it
I think this argument starts and finishes here. They all run a little slower these day, but are there with their spawn and their spawn's spawn. Save your fingers, they don't deserve it
This came up in discussion on the other thread...
Some things to consider:
* Racist Millwall are having the charge led by black fans.
* We rioted at Portman Road in the same season - the nadir of English football violence - wrecking a stand and throwing seats at Police and home supporters from the stand and on the pitch. This isn't brought out to use as a stick to beat us with 36 years later.
* Millwall had over 10,000 present at Kenilworth Road that day, about 300 are on the pitch.
* Significant amounts of Chelsea and Spurs fans were arrested as it was used by a cluster of London firms to get revenge against Luton for stabbing people.
Firstly, I'm not an apologist for anyone. I grew up among their fans and as I said on another thread, have seen more than enough shit thrown at their fans and wider area of residents simply because of the action of a minority or, if we're being completely honest, because they are the most white, working class fan base in London. There is a problem with widespread association and tarnishing and it has an effect on the local community. It's not right, it's not fair and if this was people tarnishing other communities for the action of a minority it wouldn't be tolerated.
There is similar police presence whenever we play teams with high-risk fans and if you haven't seen similar scenes at those matches then , to be honest, you're either walking around with your eyes closed or you've been protected/lucky.
No-one is defending idiots who cause trouble at football. If you have ever travelled to a match to throw a punch at someone or intimidate then you are are idiot who shouldn't be allowed near a football ground.
However, my problem is that people automatically judge Millwall fans and people from Bermondsey because of the actions of a minority in a way that few or any do for people who support, for example, Birmingham, Cardiff, Chelsea or people who come from the surrounding neighborhoods.
COYRs
[Post edited 9 Aug 2021 11:50]
"if we're being completely honest, because they are the most white, working class fan base in London"
Millwall are victims of racism?
In this period, they were the worst offenders of racism by percentage.
He was suggesting solutions to issues caused by a minority of Millwall fans that would affect the majority. I was showing how if someone suggested the same measures for an event with infamous problems with a minority of attendees and astronomical police costs it wouldn't be acceptable to Esox.
Also, if you don't know how he would respond to such suggestions about the Carnival then you haven't been paying attention to him... This isn't speculation.
Just give them the top tier going forward as it's clearly a pain in the arse for everyone them having both tier mainly due to the two entrances
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