| Our financial position 10:05 - Feb 27 with 7474 views | Darran |
Read the thread.
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| Our financial position on 10:06 - Feb 27 with 4667 views | Darran |
Especially this bit.
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| Our financial position on 10:23 - Feb 27 with 4619 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| Our financial position on 10:06 - Feb 27 by Darran |
Especially this bit.
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It looks bad when you see it in writing and from an official source, but I think we all knew this already, we are deep in the shit! |  | | |
| Our financial position on 10:26 - Feb 27 with 4616 views | pembsjack |
What most sensible people realise, we aren't totally self-sufficient and relied on the PL tv rights to grow, we will continue to sell players and assets to keep the books tidy. Unless a club has a rich sugar daddy, everyone's in the same boat. The academy has had a stay of execution for now, but in all honesty, is a luxury we cant afford. | | | |
| Our financial position on 12:21 - Feb 27 with 4474 views | NotLoyal |
Problem, if the declared figures are correct, and you would hope they are although I'm still not convinced.
We rely on academy products and scouting to develop the very thing that keeps the club afloat. To actually stop that source of development would surely be madness.
Also these are reflective figures and the massive player sales, reductions over the past year if my maths is correct may well see the club OK when the next figures are announced.
I will say this, if the clubs accounts are correct then Birch is doing all he can to keep us afloat, but there shouldn't be as much negativity as to the future as he is clearly able to foresee and forecast future income in contrast to outgoings. |  |
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| Our financial position on 12:27 - Feb 27 with 4458 views | LeonWasGod |
| Our financial position on 10:23 - Feb 27 by AlfieMooresSon |
It looks bad when you see it in writing and from an official source, but I think we all knew this already, we are deep in the shit! |
Yeah, we knew it already - it's how most clubs function in this league. They either keep float through player sales or by the owners covering the shortfall. As our owners don't want to cover the shortfall, it's obvious what we'll have to do... If we don't get the sales we'll have to cut the wage bill to a level that will put us at a significant disadvantage against most other teams in the league.
Good to have the Swiss Ramble update on this though - is does offer a few new insights you don't get from the accounts; especially the position relative to other teams in the league.
And to think where we are just a few years ago - thrown it all away with these new owners, who also don't have the resources to capitalise on our PL talent (accept retaining Ayew this year). Makes my blood boil. The sellouts sold us up the river for personal gain over long-term sustainability of the club (and I suspect the owners feel like they've been sold a pup too). |  | | |
| Our financial position on 12:29 - Feb 27 with 4453 views | Darran |
| Our financial position on 12:27 - Feb 27 by LeonWasGod |
Yeah, we knew it already - it's how most clubs function in this league. They either keep float through player sales or by the owners covering the shortfall. As our owners don't want to cover the shortfall, it's obvious what we'll have to do... If we don't get the sales we'll have to cut the wage bill to a level that will put us at a significant disadvantage against most other teams in the league.
Good to have the Swiss Ramble update on this though - is does offer a few new insights you don't get from the accounts; especially the position relative to other teams in the league.
And to think where we are just a few years ago - thrown it all away with these new owners, who also don't have the resources to capitalise on our PL talent (accept retaining Ayew this year). Makes my blood boil. The sellouts sold us up the river for personal gain over long-term sustainability of the club (and I suspect the owners feel like they've been sold a pup too). |
Two years ago. lol
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| Our financial position on 12:40 - Feb 27 with 4428 views | LeonWasGod |
Look at this one in terms of the impact on the team - pre-Yanks we used to mostly (not all years) invest back into the team, with sales balanced by fees for incoming players or minimal profit. Since they came in we're selling but not reinvesting. We know this anyway, but seeing it written down shows how start the difference has been.
Birch says the money has gone on the academy, wages and operating costs. But we were finding a way to fund those previously whilst still investing back into the team (even if a lot of that was wasted on duds in the later years of Jenkins).
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| Our financial position on 12:41 - Feb 27 with 4427 views | waynekerr55 |
| Our financial position on 12:29 - Feb 27 by Darran |
Two years ago. lol
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Quel surprise |  |
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| Our financial position on 12:47 - Feb 27 with 4413 views | LeonWasGod |
| Our financial position on 12:29 - Feb 27 by Darran |
Two years ago. lol
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Arseholes. Yet they still managed to do better than the Yanks. It was the sellouts big lie - next level and all that. Now we're hearing from the auditor that if we can't generate significant (tens of £millions) in player sales each year we could no longer be a going concern. Next level my arse. Makes me want to hit something. | | | |
| Our financial position on 21:02 - Feb 28 with 4011 views | dameedna |
Without the sales of Oli and Dan we would have lost the Academy. Would have moved on four or five players and paid some or most of their wages. Hopefully the balance will be achived next year though we may have a new squad with ten changes or so. |  | | |
| Our financial position on 21:29 - Feb 28 with 3975 views | Dr_Winston |
The accounts are a snapshot of where the club was in Jun 2019. Where the club is now is different from then. As it will be again in Jul 2020.
We're not cash rich, but neither are we facing oblivion. We've made enough tough choices to prevent the worst case scenario.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Our financial position on 21:50 - Feb 28 with 3929 views | PentyrchJack |
The Yanks have sailed us up shite creek while the sellout Judases took the paddle away.
One of the many problems for supporters is the financial model the Yanks use.
The Yanks are investors and not benefactors.
They borrowed money to buy the club and therefore they saddled the finances with debt.
The Yanks (not the club) make money by charging Swansea City AFC higher interest charges than they actually incur from the original loan they arranged.
It's a bit like borrowing £1000 from a building society at 3% interest and then using it to fund payday loans at 50% interest.
In summary, we are cocked. [Post edited 28 Feb 2020 21:51]
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| Our financial position on 21:54 - Feb 28 with 3917 views | jasper_T |
| Our financial position on 21:50 - Feb 28 by PentyrchJack |
The Yanks have sailed us up shite creek while the sellout Judases took the paddle away.
One of the many problems for supporters is the financial model the Yanks use.
The Yanks are investors and not benefactors.
They borrowed money to buy the club and therefore they saddled the finances with debt.
The Yanks (not the club) make money by charging Swansea City AFC higher interest charges than they actually incur from the original loan they arranged.
It's a bit like borrowing £1000 from a building society at 3% interest and then using it to fund payday loans at 50% interest.
In summary, we are cocked. [Post edited 28 Feb 2020 21:51]
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Where are you getting this idea from? | | | |
| Our financial position on 21:55 - Feb 28 with 3911 views | Darran |
| Our financial position on 21:54 - Feb 28 by jasper_T |
Where are you getting this idea from? |
It’s been stated that they’re loaning us money but nobody knows at what rate. [Post edited 28 Feb 2020 21:56]
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| Our financial position on 21:55 - Feb 28 with 3909 views | Cooperman |
| Our financial position on 21:50 - Feb 28 by PentyrchJack |
The Yanks have sailed us up shite creek while the sellout Judases took the paddle away.
One of the many problems for supporters is the financial model the Yanks use.
The Yanks are investors and not benefactors.
They borrowed money to buy the club and therefore they saddled the finances with debt.
The Yanks (not the club) make money by charging Swansea City AFC higher interest charges than they actually incur from the original loan they arranged.
It's a bit like borrowing £1000 from a building society at 3% interest and then using it to fund payday loans at 50% interest.
In summary, we are cocked. [Post edited 28 Feb 2020 21:51]
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Would you like to buy some magic beans? |  |
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| Our financial position on 21:59 - Feb 28 with 3892 views | jasper_T |
| Our financial position on 21:55 - Feb 28 by Darran |
It’s been stated that they’re loaning us money but nobody knows at what rate. [Post edited 28 Feb 2020 21:56]
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Short-term cashflow lending, yes. But not "borrowed money to buy the club and therefore they saddled the finances with debt". Cashflow was an issue long before Levien and Kaplan took over, we were often selling the PL payments to Barclays for upfront cash just to keep things ticking over.
It's not a Glazers at Man Utd situation. | | | |
| Our financial position on 22:00 - Feb 28 with 3886 views | Darran |
| Our financial position on 21:59 - Feb 28 by jasper_T |
Short-term cashflow lending, yes. But not "borrowed money to buy the club and therefore they saddled the finances with debt". Cashflow was an issue long before Levien and Kaplan took over, we were often selling the PL payments to Barclays for upfront cash just to keep things ticking over.
It's not a Glazers at Man Utd situation. |
Gotcha. ✌🻠| |
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| Our financial position on 22:07 - Feb 28 with 3860 views | PentyrchJack |
| Our financial position on 21:59 - Feb 28 by jasper_T |
Short-term cashflow lending, yes. But not "borrowed money to buy the club and therefore they saddled the finances with debt". Cashflow was an issue long before Levien and Kaplan took over, we were often selling the PL payments to Barclays for upfront cash just to keep things ticking over.
It's not a Glazers at Man Utd situation. |
Jasper - if you disagree the Yanks have taken out loans to fund the purchase are you therefore suggesting they funded the purchase from their own pockets? | |
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| Our financial position on 22:08 - Feb 28 with 3856 views | Darran |
| Our financial position on 22:07 - Feb 28 by PentyrchJack |
Jasper - if you disagree the Yanks have taken out loans to fund the purchase are you therefore suggesting they funded the purchase from their own pockets? |
28 other people chipped in mind. | |
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| Our financial position on 22:10 - Feb 28 with 3853 views | PentyrchJack |
| Our financial position on 21:54 - Feb 28 by jasper_T |
Where are you getting this idea from? |
The account charges in the financial statements and it's also what investors do. They are not giving free money to Swansea City AFC. You are deluded to think otherwise. | |
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| Our financial position on 22:17 - Feb 28 with 3842 views | Dr_Winston |
| Our financial position on 22:10 - Feb 28 by PentyrchJack |
The account charges in the financial statements and it's also what investors do. They are not giving free money to Swansea City AFC. You are deluded to think otherwise. |
Of course they aren't giving free money to the club.
There is a huge difference between the club repaying monies lent to it to overcome short term cashflow issues and paying interest to cover the cost of a leveraged buyout.
The latter would be obvious in the accounts if it had happened. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Our financial position on 22:19 - Feb 28 with 3829 views | jasper_T |
| Our financial position on 22:10 - Feb 28 by PentyrchJack |
The account charges in the financial statements and it's also what investors do. They are not giving free money to Swansea City AFC. You are deluded to think otherwise. |
I haven't claimed they've given free money to the club. They bought shares in a football club with their own money (and that of the investors they banded together), and have neither put in any additional investment nor taken any out in the form of dividends. What they have said they've done is lend the club lump sums in the short-term, charged at (supposedly) bank-like rates.
You don't need to go looking for conspiracy theories to explain why we've needed cashflow loans given 1) we've always been cash-poor, selling off future payments of TV money and player transfers just to keep doing business has been the norm for a long time, and 2) our income halved overnight that first summer after relegation. | | | |
| Our financial position on 06:57 - Feb 29 with 3697 views | Captain_Sham |
Its no coincidence that conspiracy theorists are all thick as mince. |  |
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| Our financial position on 07:12 - Feb 29 with 3683 views | bennytheblue |
| Our financial position on 21:54 - Feb 28 by jasper_T |
Where are you getting this idea from? |
These people don’t use their own cash funds to buy clubs, they borrow it, thus putting you into debt straight away. On a much bigger scale it’s what the Glazers did at man Utd, something which their fans protest about now. It’s wrong but it’s business. |  | | |
| Our financial position on 07:18 - Feb 29 with 3680 views | Thornburyswan |
| Our financial position on 22:19 - Feb 28 by jasper_T |
I haven't claimed they've given free money to the club. They bought shares in a football club with their own money (and that of the investors they banded together), and have neither put in any additional investment nor taken any out in the form of dividends. What they have said they've done is lend the club lump sums in the short-term, charged at (supposedly) bank-like rates.
You don't need to go looking for conspiracy theories to explain why we've needed cashflow loans given 1) we've always been cash-poor, selling off future payments of TV money and player transfers just to keep doing business has been the norm for a long time, and 2) our income halved overnight that first summer after relegation. |
Decent summary that Jasper - our club’s issue is not about debt/profit it’s all about cash (cash flow if you prefer), despite the sales/cuts etc we still have too much cash going out vs cash coming in.
From the outside looking in Birch appears to be doing a solid job & making sensible financial decisions & Cooper has played his part by keeping the club in the division. Another tough window ahead where I suspect we’ll either need to exit all the contract ending players & deal in the loan/free markets or need to sell one/two of our more valuable players, such as Rodon, in order to actually have a few ££s to add to the loanees & frees.
The elephant in the room is Ayew who has been doing a great job on the pitch, probably our player of the season, but a very expensive one! | | | |
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