| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players 20:34 - Jan 14 with 11715 views | marchamjack |
Not being negative, just putting it out there for a discussion.
I think we all know why the club’s moving in this direction, but still, not sure where this leaves us heading into next season, let alone longer term.
Thoughts? |  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 20:39 - Jan 14 with 6509 views | longlostjack |
It’s worrying. |  |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 20:40 - Jan 14 with 6500 views | pencoedjack |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 20:39 - Jan 14 by longlostjack |
It’s worrying. |
Very |  | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 20:48 - Jan 14 with 6466 views | Dr_Winston |
Leaves us with most of our biggest earners gone (only Ayew remains) with another year of parachute payments yet to come, and a recruitment structure that according to Britton is focusing on the summer window. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:08 - Jan 14 with 6355 views | longlostjack |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 20:48 - Jan 14 by Dr_Winston |
Leaves us with most of our biggest earners gone (only Ayew remains) with another year of parachute payments yet to come, and a recruitment structure that according to Britton is focusing on the summer window. |
The basis of a good Sales Prospectus that. Add in a promotional film for good measure. [Post edited 14 Jan 2020 21:09]
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:28 - Jan 14 with 6275 views | Dr_Winston |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:08 - Jan 14 by longlostjack |
The basis of a good Sales Prospectus that. Add in a promotional film for good measure. [Post edited 14 Jan 2020 21:09]
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Of course. But let's not pay for the film ourselves this time. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:34 - Jan 14 with 6253 views | jasper_T |
Still 15/16 in contract, isn't there.
Not a fan of so many loans, especially when it pushes our own development players to the fringes (lucky it's getting shut down then, I guess. More money for Cooper to spend on his boys' wages and goal bonuses). |  | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:43 - Jan 14 with 6211 views | longlostjack |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:34 - Jan 14 by jasper_T |
Still 15/16 in contract, isn't there.
Not a fan of so many loans, especially when it pushes our own development players to the fringes (lucky it's getting shut down then, I guess. More money for Cooper to spend on his boys' wages and goal bonuses). |
That’s the troubling aspect. The odd loan signing has never been a problem. Done to excess at the expense of a long term strategy and it starts to look like an attempt at a quick solution to fix a flawed investment. | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 22:05 - Jan 14 with 6142 views | Dr_Winston |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:43 - Jan 14 by longlostjack |
That’s the troubling aspect. The odd loan signing has never been a problem. Done to excess at the expense of a long term strategy and it starts to look like an attempt at a quick solution to fix a flawed investment. |
Loans make perfect sense in our current position (short term commitment, less financial outlay) but I wouldn't automatically assume that's the plan in the long term.
We're bolstering our squad now for what looks like a tilt at the playoffs. Everything changes come the summer. We'll probably have a few loanees next season, but just based on the regs alone we'll still need permanent additions too. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 22:06 - Jan 14 with 6138 views | magicdaps10 |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:34 - Jan 14 by jasper_T |
Still 15/16 in contract, isn't there.
Not a fan of so many loans, especially when it pushes our own development players to the fringes (lucky it's getting shut down then, I guess. More money for Cooper to spend on his boys' wages and goal bonuses). |
No need to "shut it down" to spend on the first team.... There will be enough money for that when all the out of contract players leave along with the loan players.
Benda
Roberts
Bidwell
John
Cabango
Rodon
Cooper
Grimes
Byers
Fulton
Celina
Petersson
Garrick
McKay
Dhanda
Ayew??
Asoro??
Rushesa
With plenty of talent still within the development squads. There is still a core of potential youngsters there but what is missing is a bit of experience. |  |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 22:06 - Jan 14 with 6141 views | Pacemaker |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:43 - Jan 14 by longlostjack |
That’s the troubling aspect. The odd loan signing has never been a problem. Done to excess at the expense of a long term strategy and it starts to look like an attempt at a quick solution to fix a flawed investment. |
Good loans can make a massive difference to a season such as Borini, Caulker and Gylfi all of those cemented first team places and did the club and their careers a power of good.
It is obvious that some of the recent purchases have not come off, some of our current first team players are injured and could still be out for some time. The current U23 squad seem to have some quality in there but are still developing.
If we have cleared out the large earners, hold onto the players we have who show some quality, use the loan players well and then use the summer market to build quality we could be back to where we were 9 years ago, a good side playing good football. If Premier league clubs trust Cooper to develop their players and they add quality and enthusiasm to the team then everyone benefits. |  |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 22:18 - Jan 14 with 6078 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 22:06 - Jan 14 by Pacemaker |
Good loans can make a massive difference to a season such as Borini, Caulker and Gylfi all of those cemented first team places and did the club and their careers a power of good.
It is obvious that some of the recent purchases have not come off, some of our current first team players are injured and could still be out for some time. The current U23 squad seem to have some quality in there but are still developing.
If we have cleared out the large earners, hold onto the players we have who show some quality, use the loan players well and then use the summer market to build quality we could be back to where we were 9 years ago, a good side playing good football. If Premier league clubs trust Cooper to develop their players and they add quality and enthusiasm to the team then everyone benefits. |
Not really though ..
Frankly no point having an expensive Academy if we simply pull in young players from Liverpool and Chelsea instead.
I think loan players overall should be the exception.
I much prefer our own players. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 22:21 - Jan 14 with 6062 views | Badlands |
From what Pearlman and Birh said earlier on in the year it seems that it's Cooper's choice to bring in these loan players. How else do you explain why they are all his ex players or close to one of his backroom staff.
Potter built a squad around academy players which was, in my option, the right thing to do.
Cooper seems reliant on youthful enthusiasm rather than developing a team from the players he has. |  |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 23:23 - Jan 14 with 5957 views | majorraglan |
Should be a blend of home grown talent, decent signings identified by the scouting team and lan signings who will give the club that little bit extra and bring out the best in what the club already has in the squad. | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 23:26 - Jan 14 with 5944 views | JackSomething |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 22:21 - Jan 14 by Badlands |
From what Pearlman and Birh said earlier on in the year it seems that it's Cooper's choice to bring in these loan players. How else do you explain why they are all his ex players or close to one of his backroom staff.
Potter built a squad around academy players which was, in my option, the right thing to do.
Cooper seems reliant on youthful enthusiasm rather than developing a team from the players he has. |
Is it possible that Potter promoted the cream of the current academy crop and those left are not good enough/need more developing? Might take some time for the next crop to come through. |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 23:57 - Jan 14 with 5900 views | Best_loser |
Next level
D
O
W
N |  | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 00:27 - Jan 15 with 5866 views | Badlands |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 23:26 - Jan 14 by JackSomething |
Is it possible that Potter promoted the cream of the current academy crop and those left are not good enough/need more developing? Might take some time for the next crop to come through. |
Pretty sure he did as U23 performances last season showed. | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 01:04 - Jan 15 with 5840 views | jasper_T |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 00:27 - Jan 15 by Badlands |
Pretty sure he did as U23 performances last season showed. |
We've got fewer players stuck waiting for their chances now but that doesn't mean there's no one there. The mass exodus was a season and a half ago, a lot of time for young players to adapt and develop.
For Cullen and Jack Evans it's time to either play or move on - they're at the same age Joe and DJ were when they made their breakthroughs (even allowing for Jack's missed year). We're loaning in players younger than them to make an immediate impact in our first team. They're watching current and former teammates for club and country make impressions up and down the EFL. The manager/club either has faith in you or they don't. | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 06:48 - Jan 15 with 5698 views | jacktar |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 21:08 - Jan 14 by longlostjack |
The basis of a good Sales Prospectus that. Add in a promotional film for good measure. [Post edited 14 Jan 2020 21:09]
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A promotional film ................................... " From the yanks to the bin" maybe. |  |
| We shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush you know! |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 10:31 - Jan 15 with 5511 views | JackSomething |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 00:27 - Jan 15 by Badlands |
Pretty sure he did as U23 performances last season showed. |
So loaning in players from PL clubs isn't something to criticise him for then, right?
I'm a long way from being convinced Cooper is good enough, but think we have enough other sticks to beat him with. If we have little to no money to spend and he doesn't feel any of the remaining U23 squad are good enough/ready for the first team, then I don't think he has any other option.
The fact that all his old England U17 team seem to be very keen to play for him again is pretty much his best asset at the moment. | |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 11:36 - Jan 15 with 5418 views | LeonWasGod |
This is the list:
Mike van der Hoorn
Borja Baston
Nathan Dyer
Tom Carroll
Wayne Routledge
Yan Dhanda
Erwin Mulder
Kyle Naughton
Courtney Baker-Richardson
Jefferson Montero
Quire a lot of those we won't miss. I'd only want to keep Mike, Naughton and possibly Mulder (if we do no other business with keepers).
Much as he's part of the furniture and been a true servant of the club, Wayne's winding down and Dyer can't get on the pitch. Carroll's the only other one who seems to be in Cooper's plans, but his comeback from injury hasn't been the best. |  | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 11:37 - Jan 15 with 5416 views | LeonWasGod |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 10:31 - Jan 15 by JackSomething |
So loaning in players from PL clubs isn't something to criticise him for then, right?
I'm a long way from being convinced Cooper is good enough, but think we have enough other sticks to beat him with. If we have little to no money to spend and he doesn't feel any of the remaining U23 squad are good enough/ready for the first team, then I don't think he has any other option.
The fact that all his old England U17 team seem to be very keen to play for him again is pretty much his best asset at the moment. |
And he's only been here 6 months in his first senior management role. We should give him time. | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:03 - Jan 15 with 5381 views | Badlands |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 10:31 - Jan 15 by JackSomething |
So loaning in players from PL clubs isn't something to criticise him for then, right?
I'm a long way from being convinced Cooper is good enough, but think we have enough other sticks to beat him with. If we have little to no money to spend and he doesn't feel any of the remaining U23 squad are good enough/ready for the first team, then I don't think he has any other option.
The fact that all his old England U17 team seem to be very keen to play for him again is pretty much his best asset at the moment. |
Suggests to me he isn't able to coach a team at this level and has to bring in players desperate for game time and to show their parent clubs what they can do.
That is OK to a certain extent but I think it will prove detrimental to the club.
We had good players who have gone backwards under Cooper.
Wilmot was brought in has to play but is no better than three CBs we already had.
Surridge was no better than Borja or CBR but was given game time ahead of our player to keep another team happy and left anyway.
Kalulu, from the little we have seen is no better than Osoro or Rutledge.
Freddie Woodman is arguably no better than Nordfeldt to Mulder ... different but no better and what he was doing at the start of the season that made him stand out he's given up on ... quick reaction, accurate passing and commanding a 6 yard box.
The loanees are taking places that should have been available to our younger players.
Hopefully the new loans will prove better value than the players they will replace.
I am negative about Cooper and his acquisitions, I know that annoys some people, but it's my opinion. | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:03 - Jan 15 with 5381 views | Cooperman |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 11:36 - Jan 15 by LeonWasGod |
This is the list:
Mike van der Hoorn
Borja Baston
Nathan Dyer
Tom Carroll
Wayne Routledge
Yan Dhanda
Erwin Mulder
Kyle Naughton
Courtney Baker-Richardson
Jefferson Montero
Quire a lot of those we won't miss. I'd only want to keep Mike, Naughton and possibly Mulder (if we do no other business with keepers).
Much as he's part of the furniture and been a true servant of the club, Wayne's winding down and Dyer can't get on the pitch. Carroll's the only other one who seems to be in Cooper's plans, but his comeback from injury hasn't been the best. |
The problem that many still don’t realise or understand is that we are hamstrung by the wages of those players in Leon’s list. Whilst they may not be contributing on the pitch they are certainly contributing to overhead.
I for one am looking forward to a massive clean out in the summer from the point of view of reducing the overhead. Perhaps not so in terms of the players themselves because they are names that we know and have many fond memories of. However it’s a case of no pain or no gain; the king is dead and long live the king, blah blah.
This is why I’m fully behind giving Cooper the chance long term. Putting aside the fact that we cannot be changing managers several times per year, we also need to give him a fair crack at one or two transfer windows where he has reasonable freedom to work with the recruitment team and shape the squad with players that fit his mantra.
Can someone have a reasonable crack at calculating the total weekly wage of the list above? |  |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:15 - Jan 15 with 5355 views | jasper_T |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 11:36 - Jan 15 by LeonWasGod |
This is the list:
Mike van der Hoorn
Borja Baston
Nathan Dyer
Tom Carroll
Wayne Routledge
Yan Dhanda
Erwin Mulder
Kyle Naughton
Courtney Baker-Richardson
Jefferson Montero
Quire a lot of those we won't miss. I'd only want to keep Mike, Naughton and possibly Mulder (if we do no other business with keepers).
Much as he's part of the furniture and been a true servant of the club, Wayne's winding down and Dyer can't get on the pitch. Carroll's the only other one who seems to be in Cooper's plans, but his comeback from injury hasn't been the best. |
Dhanda signed an extension a while ago. | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:27 - Jan 15 with 5315 views | Dr_Winston |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 11:36 - Jan 15 by LeonWasGod |
This is the list:
Mike van der Hoorn
Borja Baston
Nathan Dyer
Tom Carroll
Wayne Routledge
Yan Dhanda
Erwin Mulder
Kyle Naughton
Courtney Baker-Richardson
Jefferson Montero
Quire a lot of those we won't miss. I'd only want to keep Mike, Naughton and possibly Mulder (if we do no other business with keepers).
Much as he's part of the furniture and been a true servant of the club, Wayne's winding down and Dyer can't get on the pitch. Carroll's the only other one who seems to be in Cooper's plans, but his comeback from injury hasn't been the best. |
That list also included Nordfelt until yesterday.
Estimated the other day that you're probably looking at a minimum of £200k per week with that lot. Maybe significantly more. If you include Ayew as well then it definitely is. Keeping Ayew and Baston for the season has probably cost us in the region of £8m.
Even at the lower figure of £200k that's more than £10m a year off the wage bill, not factoring in bonuses, national insurance etc. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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