| Migrant/Refugee crisis 11:04 - Sep 4 with 63957 views | Deano19766 |
Just a thought on this subject which is all over the news saying we are a disgrace and should do more to help -
Oxford English Dictionary definition of Refugee - "A person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster". So when a person flees their country for those reasons they are a refugee (and that is of course a terrible thing to happen to anyone and is yet another sad fact about humanity as a species). However, it could (and should) then be implied that once a 'refugee' passes through a 'safe' country then (s)he is no longer a refugee but a migrant, and most likely a migrant for economic reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but all this rhetoric about taking in 'refugees' is completely misguided or a (deliberate?) misinterpretation of the facts IMO. If people wish to show their support for accommodating these people then that is of course their prerogative, but they should at least be clear that that they support accommodating 'economic migrants' as opposed to 'refugees' (although that would be far less sensationalist and may not suit their agenda). |  | | |  |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:12 - Sep 4 with 17621 views | toboboly |
If my granddads had the same attitude as people do nowadays regarding conflict I would either be speaking German or living in Canada. |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:25 - Sep 4 with 17438 views | Lblock |
I give this thread maybe two pages maximum before it's pulled... maybe less.
Firstly - I agree it's tragic to see the images on TV and it again reinforces how lucky we are to live where we are (whatever your circumstances the pressures of UK life are nothing compared to IS destroying your city and beheading people).
However... my feeling is this situation now could cause another implosion in Europe in terms of economy and way of life. There is a stark refusal of these refugees to accept help or relief once reaching Europe's shores and they are one minded to head to Germany, Sweden and the UK where there's, shall we say, "more on offer". God (or Allah) knows how Turkey are coping with the figures crossing their borders being in the millions now. I suspect the camps there are only a few steps up from what these people have left.
The bleating heart liberalista and the lefties make me laugh. Now it's all about guilt tripping the populous into accepting that our borders should be even more porous than they are now. Never questioning why people would put themselves through further perilous journeys after reaching a country giving safe haven - only stating to me "how would you like it?"
I've been accused of the old classic knee jerk label when you question migration many times but nobody has ever convinced me the system benefits anyone. The last "wave" in our area was the Somali's. I caused an apocalyptic rage in one open sandal hairy armpit leftie woman at work when I questioned how it could be right to allow a family fresh off the plane to roll into council accommodation in the middle of one of London's suburbs, tell them what they can get for nothing and send them on their way. These people have often known nothing but warring tribal factions, some never used modern day appliances, have no knowledge of Western ways and no interest or need to adhere to them. There is simply no induction into what living in the West entails or what is expected. Is it any wonder that human life holds no value?
It's a right old mess |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:35 - Sep 4 with 17397 views | Deano19766 |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:12 - Sep 4 by toboboly |
If my granddads had the same attitude as people do nowadays regarding conflict I would either be speaking German or living in Canada. |
Difference being the human population of the world in 1950 was circa 2.5 billion, whereas now it is circa 7 billion. The UK's population back then was circa 45 million, it is now circa 60 million. That undoubtedly has to be factored in to any comment about changes in attitude. Until people acknowledge that the worlds population needs to be reduced drastically over the next century and do something about it then things will only continue to get even worse, but that's a debate for another time.
Notwithstanding, my comment is more in respect of people using the word 'refugee' to advance their own agenda/make them feel good about themselves/promote what good people they are/guilt trip the rest of us. They should at least use the correct term 'economic migrants' surely? Then we can debate the real facts and issues, not the rhetoric and the guilt tripping [Post edited 4 Sep 2015 11:39]
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:50 - Sep 4 with 17342 views | Konk |
Hungary currently rejects 90%+ of Asylum applications, so after spending several weeks/months in a camp, after risking life and limb and spending all your savings to get to Europe, you have a high chance of being sent back to Syria. If Germany, Austria and Sweden are willing to accommodate refugees, then surely it's common sense and human nature to try and get there rather than risk rejection or be settled in a country where the government has made it clear you're not welcome? And aside from where the refugees wish to go, isn't it unfair that Greece, Italy and countries in Eastern Europe shoulder the burden alone? This is a massively complicated tragedy, but with our role in destabilising the region, we surely have some responsibility. These are human beings - if the boot was on the other foot, I hope that people elsewhere would be willing to come to the aid of me and my family. |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:51 - Sep 4 with 17240 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
My gammon and chips detector has just blown up. |  | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:52 - Sep 4 with 17232 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:50 - Sep 4 by Konk |
Hungary currently rejects 90%+ of Asylum applications, so after spending several weeks/months in a camp, after risking life and limb and spending all your savings to get to Europe, you have a high chance of being sent back to Syria. If Germany, Austria and Sweden are willing to accommodate refugees, then surely it's common sense and human nature to try and get there rather than risk rejection or be settled in a country where the government has made it clear you're not welcome? And aside from where the refugees wish to go, isn't it unfair that Greece, Italy and countries in Eastern Europe shoulder the burden alone? This is a massively complicated tragedy, but with our role in destabilising the region, we surely have some responsibility. These are human beings - if the boot was on the other foot, I hope that people elsewhere would be willing to come to the aid of me and my family. |
Save your breath mate. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:53 - Sep 4 with 17238 views | toboboly |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:35 - Sep 4 by Deano19766 |
Difference being the human population of the world in 1950 was circa 2.5 billion, whereas now it is circa 7 billion. The UK's population back then was circa 45 million, it is now circa 60 million. That undoubtedly has to be factored in to any comment about changes in attitude. Until people acknowledge that the worlds population needs to be reduced drastically over the next century and do something about it then things will only continue to get even worse, but that's a debate for another time.
Notwithstanding, my comment is more in respect of people using the word 'refugee' to advance their own agenda/make them feel good about themselves/promote what good people they are/guilt trip the rest of us. They should at least use the correct term 'economic migrants' surely? Then we can debate the real facts and issues, not the rhetoric and the guilt tripping [Post edited 4 Sep 2015 11:39]
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My comment is in regards to that if they stood up to IS etc then they wouldn't need to be refugees and the situation would be sorted. Their country wouldn't be so ruined and I imagine there would be less deaths than trying to flee over thousands of miles.
I agree with you that once they decide to leave the first safe country they enter they aren't refugees but migrants and what they are doing is illegal. | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:54 - Sep 4 with 17224 views | QPR_Jim |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:35 - Sep 4 by Deano19766 |
Difference being the human population of the world in 1950 was circa 2.5 billion, whereas now it is circa 7 billion. The UK's population back then was circa 45 million, it is now circa 60 million. That undoubtedly has to be factored in to any comment about changes in attitude. Until people acknowledge that the worlds population needs to be reduced drastically over the next century and do something about it then things will only continue to get even worse, but that's a debate for another time.
Notwithstanding, my comment is more in respect of people using the word 'refugee' to advance their own agenda/make them feel good about themselves/promote what good people they are/guilt trip the rest of us. They should at least use the correct term 'economic migrants' surely? Then we can debate the real facts and issues, not the rhetoric and the guilt tripping [Post edited 4 Sep 2015 11:39]
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I would assume that your a refugee until you've found another home, it doesn't end as soon as you set foot in a different country. The camps they have for the refugees are temporary shelter, not homes.
I think it would also be unfair to make the countries nearer the crisis take all the refugees and home them. I don't think that's how it should work in situations like this. That said I think there is an argument that with the UK taking in a large number of migrants from eu member states our capacity to assist with this crisis has been reduced. |  | | |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:55 - Sep 4 with 17223 views | londonscottish |
Jeremy Bowen on the BBC did a good piece on this last night.
The genuine asylum seekers at the moment are predominantly Syrians who can't stay in their cities because their own government is bombing them and can't go outside the cities as they'll be beheaded by ISIS.
Many of them will have already moved 5 or 6 times within Syria and, in total desperation, finally make a break for Europe, usually to somewhere where they have family.
Europe as a whole, IMHO, owes these people some sort of humanitarian response.
Unfortunately a bunch of chancers from countries like Pakistan and Afganistan who are actually economic migrants are jumping on the bandwagon and trying to take advantage of the confusion to cross the same borders. |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:56 - Sep 4 with 17211 views | Deano19766 |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:53 - Sep 4 by toboboly |
My comment is in regards to that if they stood up to IS etc then they wouldn't need to be refugees and the situation would be sorted. Their country wouldn't be so ruined and I imagine there would be less deaths than trying to flee over thousands of miles.
I agree with you that once they decide to leave the first safe country they enter they aren't refugees but migrants and what they are doing is illegal. |
Aha I got ya now. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:08 - Sep 4 with 17165 views | NW5Hoop |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:53 - Sep 4 by toboboly |
My comment is in regards to that if they stood up to IS etc then they wouldn't need to be refugees and the situation would be sorted. Their country wouldn't be so ruined and I imagine there would be less deaths than trying to flee over thousands of miles.
I agree with you that once they decide to leave the first safe country they enter they aren't refugees but migrants and what they are doing is illegal. |
Yes, if only they stood up to the well armed murderous b*stards who are killing everyone who disagrees with them. IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT.
So, do people really believe that one country, the first one they come to, should take all the refugees? And how will that work out? Britain shares responsibility in this crisis for having helped foment war in Syria in the first place. It can't say, "Not our problem" at this point. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:13 - Sep 4 with 17135 views | ElHoop |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:50 - Sep 4 by Konk |
Hungary currently rejects 90%+ of Asylum applications, so after spending several weeks/months in a camp, after risking life and limb and spending all your savings to get to Europe, you have a high chance of being sent back to Syria. If Germany, Austria and Sweden are willing to accommodate refugees, then surely it's common sense and human nature to try and get there rather than risk rejection or be settled in a country where the government has made it clear you're not welcome? And aside from where the refugees wish to go, isn't it unfair that Greece, Italy and countries in Eastern Europe shoulder the burden alone? This is a massively complicated tragedy, but with our role in destabilising the region, we surely have some responsibility. These are human beings - if the boot was on the other foot, I hope that people elsewhere would be willing to come to the aid of me and my family. |
It's a shame that we can't accommodate a lot more of these refugees but we had I think 325,000 net incoming migrants in the past year and presumably more this year and next year and every year more will come. How do we cope with it all in terms of infrastructure? Yes we should still help the refugees anyway but it's a sorry mess when you don't have any idea how many people are already coming and where you are going to put them.
As for destabilising the region, I have no doubt that we've contributed to that, but these people were killing one another long before we got involved and no doubt there were people who should have run away from the likes of Saddam and would still be alive now if they had have done. But we did stop Saddam killing them anyway. Whatever you do or don't do you seem to get blamed for something or the other by someone. It must be fecking dreadful for these people chased around by nutters and then shunted all over the shop when they escape. |  | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:15 - Sep 4 with 17125 views | exiled_dictator |
my tuppence worth .....
i was / am a refugee.
born in iran, but after the 1979 revolution, it became impossible for us to continue living there.
so my uncle made arrangements for us to leave.
we were incredibly fortunate to be invited to uk by thatcher government, and we flew out of tehran in 1980, stopping to change plane in germany, before flying onto heathrow.
we were middle class in tehran; a very nice big house in a good neighbourhood. my mother never needed to work. my dad drove a mercedes, and all 7 children had education, food, comfort and security.
this changed when khomeini turned a democracy into an islamic republic.
my uncle taught international affairs at tehran university, a professor and deputy department head. he was seen as a threat to the new teachings, and we were given 3 days to leave. we had no time to sell anything, nor go to the bank to withdraw our savings and jewellery. we left with what we could, and we left behind 2000 years of family history.
when we landed in heathrow, we had become poor, refugees. we had nothing but what we could put in suitcases.
hard work and focus means that today we run several successful businesses, and every day i give thanks for our situation.
these people arriving in europe arrive from different continents, from different wars. african migrants from war torn libya, egypt, central and east africa.
asian migrants from syria, lebanon, afghanistan, iraq and even iran escaping civil war and isis.
the world has moved on in 35 years, but wars continue. what has changed is the sheer number of refugees / migrants / whatever term you wish to use, and the new fear that some, many, or all of these people might be terrorists. if you listen to (a very small minority of) people, you would think that everyone is jihad john, coming here to behead every white christian. the fact that the vast majority of these people are muslim doesn't help. 9/11 saw to that.
should europe take in these people? undoubtedly they should. but europe needs help processing and absorbing all these people. i would also like to see some of them rehoused in north america, usa & canada. and yes, there needs to be a fairer split of people across all of europe. the quotas of immigrants that were so popularly discussed at pmq's needs to be ignored, and we agree to take in say 1 million refugees.
do we have the space for them? really, is that a serious question? they don't all have to live in london, birmingham or bradford or other main conurbations, but they need shelter, food, schooling and money. we have to look beyond the idea that everyone needs to work; there is enough money in the uk financial system to accommodate all these people. what is missing is the will to do so from nimbys and xenophobes.
time to wake up, britain, cameron, osborne and all; we are still part of europe, and the wider world. you saved me, now save others. |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:17 - Sep 4 with 17111 views | toboboly |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:08 - Sep 4 by NW5Hoop |
Yes, if only they stood up to the well armed murderous b*stards who are killing everyone who disagrees with them. IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT.
So, do people really believe that one country, the first one they come to, should take all the refugees? And how will that work out? Britain shares responsibility in this crisis for having helped foment war in Syria in the first place. It can't say, "Not our problem" at this point. |
Throughout human history people have been attacked and have either fled or fought. If they fought then they would still have a country. | |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:19 - Sep 4 with 17097 views | Konk |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:08 - Sep 4 by NW5Hoop |
Yes, if only they stood up to the well armed murderous b*stards who are killing everyone who disagrees with them. IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT.
So, do people really believe that one country, the first one they come to, should take all the refugees? And how will that work out? Britain shares responsibility in this crisis for having helped foment war in Syria in the first place. It can't say, "Not our problem" at this point. |
Given that your average Briton looks the other way when scrawny young teenagers are being dic ks in public, it's a bit harsh expecting ordinary civilians to do much in the face of government bombing or heavily armed psychopathic murderers and rapists like ISIS.
Put yourself in those people's shoes for two minutes and ask yourself what you'd do to try and give your family some sort of life - they're not ar sed about plasma tellies - they just want security. Not social security - just, not-getting-killed security - it's why people say life was sh ite, but often better under Gaddafi/Hussein etc. Or ask the Palestinians who've been in refugee camps for decades, what that experience is like. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:21 - Sep 4 with 17076 views | themodfather |
what first takes my attention is, why don't the escaping masses from syria try and get to qatar,saudi or another arab state>? especially a rich one?
then i think putin told the world to stay out of syria or else, so i assume he's taking the bulk of migrants or will happily take 250,000...as russia is a huge land space, the uk is one of the EUs smaller nations and whatever europe says, that won't change.
the sad images of kids washed up, are well, sickening but again how many kids died in the uk over the last 24 hrs?
world leaders need to meet NOW to discuss all migration, now and in the future and how numbers are distributed and handled.
as for uk taking more, if we have sorted out our homeless and housing crisis then, yes, let in as many as we can. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:24 - Sep 4 with 17060 views | Konk |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:13 - Sep 4 by ElHoop |
It's a shame that we can't accommodate a lot more of these refugees but we had I think 325,000 net incoming migrants in the past year and presumably more this year and next year and every year more will come. How do we cope with it all in terms of infrastructure? Yes we should still help the refugees anyway but it's a sorry mess when you don't have any idea how many people are already coming and where you are going to put them.
As for destabilising the region, I have no doubt that we've contributed to that, but these people were killing one another long before we got involved and no doubt there were people who should have run away from the likes of Saddam and would still be alive now if they had have done. But we did stop Saddam killing them anyway. Whatever you do or don't do you seem to get blamed for something or the other by someone. It must be fecking dreadful for these people chased around by nutters and then shunted all over the shop when they escape. |
God knows what you do because it's an epic disaster, but the numbers killed under Hussein are tiny in comparison to those killed and dislocated since the invasion of Iraq, and the knock-on effect that's had on neighbouring Syria and Libya. We had no right being there and everyone with a modicum of intelligence knew that a power vacuum in Iraq would lead to mass instability and violence. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:27 - Sep 4 with 17036 views | hopphoops |
Anyone can seek asylum legally in any number of countries, there is nothing to stop you crossing a border and presenting yourself to the authorities. It doesn't give you rights there. If you request asylum, a government can do any of five things: grant it, giving you refugee status; put you on a plane back to your country of origin; keep you waiting for a decision, during which time your presence is legal; quietly help you over the next border and out of their hands; or send you to another 'safe country' where it thinks you should really have sought asylum. Whether Hungary allows people on to Germany is a political decision; whether Germany can get away with sending people back to Hungary or Turkey is both a legal question and a political one - if say Hungary is refusing asylum to people who would be granted it in Germany, then Germany cannot claim that Hungary is a 'safe country'.
Working a bit on the topic, I was amazed how much it generally takes to make people flee to other countries. When their lives were at risk, their daughters threatened, their fields mined or their houses destroyed, they'd still hang in there or nearby. Only when all of these things were true would they properly flee, and then almost always within the country or to the neighbouring country if possible. This wave of asylum seekers in Europe does correspond with the 'maturity' of the war in Syria. (I'd have fled years ago myself) |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:30 - Sep 4 with 17018 views | bob566 |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:15 - Sep 4 by exiled_dictator |
my tuppence worth .....
i was / am a refugee.
born in iran, but after the 1979 revolution, it became impossible for us to continue living there.
so my uncle made arrangements for us to leave.
we were incredibly fortunate to be invited to uk by thatcher government, and we flew out of tehran in 1980, stopping to change plane in germany, before flying onto heathrow.
we were middle class in tehran; a very nice big house in a good neighbourhood. my mother never needed to work. my dad drove a mercedes, and all 7 children had education, food, comfort and security.
this changed when khomeini turned a democracy into an islamic republic.
my uncle taught international affairs at tehran university, a professor and deputy department head. he was seen as a threat to the new teachings, and we were given 3 days to leave. we had no time to sell anything, nor go to the bank to withdraw our savings and jewellery. we left with what we could, and we left behind 2000 years of family history.
when we landed in heathrow, we had become poor, refugees. we had nothing but what we could put in suitcases.
hard work and focus means that today we run several successful businesses, and every day i give thanks for our situation.
these people arriving in europe arrive from different continents, from different wars. african migrants from war torn libya, egypt, central and east africa.
asian migrants from syria, lebanon, afghanistan, iraq and even iran escaping civil war and isis.
the world has moved on in 35 years, but wars continue. what has changed is the sheer number of refugees / migrants / whatever term you wish to use, and the new fear that some, many, or all of these people might be terrorists. if you listen to (a very small minority of) people, you would think that everyone is jihad john, coming here to behead every white christian. the fact that the vast majority of these people are muslim doesn't help. 9/11 saw to that.
should europe take in these people? undoubtedly they should. but europe needs help processing and absorbing all these people. i would also like to see some of them rehoused in north america, usa & canada. and yes, there needs to be a fairer split of people across all of europe. the quotas of immigrants that were so popularly discussed at pmq's needs to be ignored, and we agree to take in say 1 million refugees.
do we have the space for them? really, is that a serious question? they don't all have to live in london, birmingham or bradford or other main conurbations, but they need shelter, food, schooling and money. we have to look beyond the idea that everyone needs to work; there is enough money in the uk financial system to accommodate all these people. what is missing is the will to do so from nimbys and xenophobes.
time to wake up, britain, cameron, osborne and all; we are still part of europe, and the wider world. you saved me, now save others. |
nice post exiled. Couple of questions.
Would you agree that it is time a muslim country stood up and launched a ground attack on ISIS. Why has this not happened yet. I think Iraq are the only ones who have given it a go.
Also who is funding ISIS. I'm not sure but a lot of people are pointing the finger at the Saudis.
The middle east is really f**** up at the moment. So much potential wealth from oil and yet only probably 2% of the people get it.
Syria is getting all the attention and rightly so but there is trouble everywhere as far as I can see. Afghan, Pakistan, Iraq (isis have taken over tikrit) That country would be better off with sadamn still there. And then you've yemen. One branch of muslims are buthering the others. Is it the hootis been killed or are they doing the killing. I can't remember.
So how do you solve all of that. From what I can see pretty much all of the middle east needs asylum. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:31 - Sep 4 with 17015 views | Gloucs_R |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:15 - Sep 4 by exiled_dictator |
my tuppence worth .....
i was / am a refugee.
born in iran, but after the 1979 revolution, it became impossible for us to continue living there.
so my uncle made arrangements for us to leave.
we were incredibly fortunate to be invited to uk by thatcher government, and we flew out of tehran in 1980, stopping to change plane in germany, before flying onto heathrow.
we were middle class in tehran; a very nice big house in a good neighbourhood. my mother never needed to work. my dad drove a mercedes, and all 7 children had education, food, comfort and security.
this changed when khomeini turned a democracy into an islamic republic.
my uncle taught international affairs at tehran university, a professor and deputy department head. he was seen as a threat to the new teachings, and we were given 3 days to leave. we had no time to sell anything, nor go to the bank to withdraw our savings and jewellery. we left with what we could, and we left behind 2000 years of family history.
when we landed in heathrow, we had become poor, refugees. we had nothing but what we could put in suitcases.
hard work and focus means that today we run several successful businesses, and every day i give thanks for our situation.
these people arriving in europe arrive from different continents, from different wars. african migrants from war torn libya, egypt, central and east africa.
asian migrants from syria, lebanon, afghanistan, iraq and even iran escaping civil war and isis.
the world has moved on in 35 years, but wars continue. what has changed is the sheer number of refugees / migrants / whatever term you wish to use, and the new fear that some, many, or all of these people might be terrorists. if you listen to (a very small minority of) people, you would think that everyone is jihad john, coming here to behead every white christian. the fact that the vast majority of these people are muslim doesn't help. 9/11 saw to that.
should europe take in these people? undoubtedly they should. but europe needs help processing and absorbing all these people. i would also like to see some of them rehoused in north america, usa & canada. and yes, there needs to be a fairer split of people across all of europe. the quotas of immigrants that were so popularly discussed at pmq's needs to be ignored, and we agree to take in say 1 million refugees.
do we have the space for them? really, is that a serious question? they don't all have to live in london, birmingham or bradford or other main conurbations, but they need shelter, food, schooling and money. we have to look beyond the idea that everyone needs to work; there is enough money in the uk financial system to accommodate all these people. what is missing is the will to do so from nimbys and xenophobes.
time to wake up, britain, cameron, osborne and all; we are still part of europe, and the wider world. you saved me, now save others. |
ED - Assuming you are Muslim, are you Shia , Sunni or another?
Those fleeing Syria, are they Shia fleeing ISIS? If so, there is less chance if them becoming radicalized to hate the west.
I understand why people would want to grab their families and run. But what I dont understand is the need to go to Germany, Sweden and the UK for anything other than you know it will be an easier life and you'll get more. If I was genuinely fleeing a war, I would be happy with whichever country gave me safety and sanctuary.
250,000 refugees...50 european countries, 5,000 each country. |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:35 - Sep 4 with 16984 views | Dorse |
I think Ex has nailed it. It is 'Europe' they want to reach as it represents safety. If the refugees were properly processed on arrival, they could be safely settled across Europe, rather than concentrated in certain parts. The other question to address is this: in the main, refugees want to return home once their safety can be reasonably assured. An asylum seeker is unable to return and is therefore looking to stay. Are we granting asylum or temporarily housing refugees? It is unclear.
To echo Ex, I wouldn't be here at all if my family hadn't moved from the Pale of Settlement after yet another pogrom. They were able to settle in London and brought their skills with them, setting up a tailoring business. How's that for a stereotype? Oy vey.
Edit- I will, of course, now resume my unending stream of nob gags. [Post edited 4 Sep 2015 12:37]
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| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:35 - Sep 4 with 16982 views | Konk |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:17 - Sep 4 by toboboly |
Throughout human history people have been attacked and have either fled or fought. If they fought then they would still have a country. |
Just out of interest, how many wars have you fought in and how often have you and your family had to live in a war zone? Personally, I don’t think I’d be that up for combat and I don’t think worrying every day about how I was going to find safety, food, water and shelter for my family, whilst witnessing death and destruction all around me would be that much of a lark either. I’d do what I could to get them to a safe, tolerant country.
A lot of posters on this board seem to come from Irish backgrounds — parents presumably economic migrants seeking a better life for them and their children — fair enough to me, and throw in the horrors of war and it should be obvious why after four years of war, people are desperate to leave the chaos of a failed state to seek some security. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:36 - Sep 4 with 16976 views | BrianMcCarthy |
The Irish government is making a big deal about accepting 600 refugees. 600. That's less than one coffin ship. This from a Country that millions, millions of refugees were forced to flee and who found peace and shelter on foreign shores. 600... |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:36 - Sep 4 with 16974 views | MedwayR |
I have little to no sympathy for the people camped in Calais trying to get in the UK nor those in Hungary trying to get to Germany because they could claim asylum in the countries they are currently living but are choosing not to, the phrase "beggars can't be choosers" springs to mind, if you're desperate you'll take the first opportunity to claim asylum not try to get into UK/Germany before claiming it. Surely the system is to claim asylum, get processed and then distributed fairly throughout the EU? These people appear to be trying to cheat the system.
The picture of the drowned children was a sad and disturbing image but those people didn't need to risk their lives because they were safe in Turkey. However Turkey has taken a lot of the Syrian refugees and they are housed in camps with little in the way of future prospects so I can understand why they took a chance, unfortunately it had a tragic ending. What gets me is how these people had decided they want to go to Canada, surely truly desperate people don't pick a new country to live in as if it's picking a holiday destination from a brochure, desperate people would take what they can and be grateful for it.
The EU should be working with Turkey to take some of the refugees and help to try to put an end to the 'invasion' (sorry but I couldn't think of a better word) of Italy and the Greek islands and other places in the EU.
It's a very messy situation and fingers need to be pointed at the EU who are completely unprepared for this situation which seems to have taken them by surprise. Applications take too long and hundreds of thousands of people are left stranded as a result. Too much time worrying about wonky bananas and ignoring real issues in my opinion. |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:38 - Sep 4 with 16962 views | ElHoop |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 12:24 - Sep 4 by Konk |
God knows what you do because it's an epic disaster, but the numbers killed under Hussein are tiny in comparison to those killed and dislocated since the invasion of Iraq, and the knock-on effect that's had on neighbouring Syria and Libya. We had no right being there and everyone with a modicum of intelligence knew that a power vacuum in Iraq would lead to mass instability and violence. |
I'm not sure how you can be so sure on that one, it's not black or white for me. Anyhow, however many people Saddam would have killed by now, a number which nobody can define, would have to go on your slate and people such as you will always reject that charge, so it's a pointless discussion for me. | | | |
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