| Just begining to get worried... 09:28 - Jul 21 with 4024 views | danehoop |
I was just thinking how since that wonderful day at Wembley things have started to rapidly fall away. Leaving the stadium after Zamora has scored "that goal" and walking back and chatting away with so many fellow fans on the way home was probably one of my highest points in 30 odd years of going to watch us.
Over the last few weeks though that sudden buzz of optimism has really left me, replaced with trepidation over preparations for the coming season and sudden u-turn on things like the training ground.
I expected us to be marginally active on the transfer front, perhaps 3-4 players coming in, younger hungrier players in the main with a more experienced pro perhaps. I was expecting a few to leave us, the one we already expected, but generally it was about keeping the core together that got us there and adding Steve Black. We seemed to have got someway there, but the worrying lack of younger players hasn't happened and doesnt look to be on the horizon anytime soon. Instead we seem to have reverted to type and signed aging superstars from Manchester on the slow drag down. Hopefully Rio will prove me wrong, but we do seem to have got our merchandising clothes horse in early this year.
The big irritation is the training ground though. WTF is that all about? How can sensible investment for the future, where the legal challenge from a bunch of NIMBYs has already been defeated suddenly be a questionable investment? We don't need facilities like Southampton or Tottenham? Really? Because our facilities are already so good and our youth and development process is already that strong that we have produced so many good youngsters? Er no.
So from such a promising position in May to where we are now, what has changed? OK, we are expecting some kind of move on FIFA's ensure that the rich clubs remain unchallenged and rich initiative (called amusingly "financial fair play"). You can take a fair bet that because we are QPR our fine will be higher than Man City or PS, despite the obsencity of spend in both and despite our books now looking a great deal healthier after so many departures over the past year. But that was factored into the calculations wasnt it? I mean these are astute business people after all, they told as much.
Oh hold on, they also told us about Warren Farm and having learned the lesson of the past on transfers regards bringing in signings who had long term value.
So why the sudden change of tack, with little coming in? Well it could be attempting to stick to a sensible transfer policy is making it trickier to sign who we'd ideally want. It could also be that there is a dearth of value players who want to join us. It could also be that our scouting network isnt that good and we arent looking at lower league potential. Or it could be that Harry and Tony are just not seeing eye to eye on who could and should be acquired so that stalemate means nothing will happen until the end of the window (like always with Harry to be fair).
There is though another possibility, whisper it quietly, that the root cause of all evil (money) is suddenly in short supply. Tony's abandoning of his Caterham F1 team is interesting. F1 is a rich mans thing and if you're are outside the top 5 teams without a decent powerbase relationship with an engine supplier, then development costs are expensive. With the proposed budegtary cap not happening, despite the best intentions of Bernie (hah!) then the gap between the teams extended not shrunk. Rumour was that Tony got a good deal for Caterham, but that probably didnt cover what has been spent since his involvement and the team are arguably no further forward.
Add to that the impending fine under Fifa's Not Financial Fair Play and the anticipated revenue for QPR next year and the TV money isnt quite looking as good as it first looked. Sponsorship income hasnt exactly been rolling in a la Man Utd either.
The other underlying question is where the bankroll for QPRs current financial debt has been met from? Again we know that Tony and his company have pumped in cash and the assumption is that the Mittals have as well. That has been fine to a point, but relies on Tony's company thriving and not overstretching itself andhis airline being a dominant player in a thriving asian aviation market. But there has been recent bid announcements on expanding into India (notoriously difficult market) and Japan (see India). Both are high risk ventures where Tony has tried and not made it before. Each requires investment.
The new stadium (if it ever happens) is also interesting as the plain sailing on that looks a bit choppy now as well, with former "QPR through and through" sponsors Cargiant taking a decidely dim view on their property suddenly being available. Now the kicker is that is where the long term value is for Tony and his partners is in this. They can make a major property deal which could finance the companies fortunes for the next 20 years if the investment comes off. If that is in doubt, then it doesnt quite look as attractive an investment in QPR that it once did.
So with added pressure on company cash flow, reduced income from TV money and the property deal looking less concrete than it once did, you just start to wonder if financial reality is starting to bite.
All just utter speculation. Wonder if others share same concerns though. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 09:33 - Jul 21 with 3088 views | kensalriser |
Jesus wept. You have way too much time on your hands. On the other hand, your life must be great if this is all you have to fret about! |  |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 09:36 - Jul 21 with 3053 views | Discodroid |
good post dane hoop
.articulate and you sum up my feeling about things at the moment to a tee. |  |
| " I guess in four or five years, the new generation's music will be .. electronics, tapes. I can kind of envision .. maybe one person .. with a lot of machines, tapes, and electronics setups, singin or speaking .. and using machines " James Douglas Morrison | 1969 |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 09:46 - Jul 21 with 3004 views | vblockranger |
Great OP post and i share a lot of your concerns. Something has changed and its not that TF has lost any enthusiasm (see Wembley). Imo i think its down to money or lack of.
Also we as a club now have the reputation of offering players over the top wages and no matter whether TF insists the policy has now changed agents and players now expect huge cash. Especially when we still have the likes of SWP etc on a highly publicized fortune every week. |  | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 09:49 - Jul 21 with 3004 views | A40Bosh |
To answer the final question in that lengthy post......
No I do not share in your concern.
Rio was a free agent, started at QPR, made it under Harry, fast route into Premier League club and probably been guarantees of regular first team football. Easy sell to both sides and if you believe the "it's not about the money for Rio" then this is a single signing of an experienced quality player, albeit in his twilight year - See Clive's piece for a fuller consideration.
The rest of it will continue to take time because as much as some think that "the right sort" are queuing up outside Phil Beard's office looking to sign for us, the reality is that players and agents will play the game to get the best deal for the player and that is once you have managed to agree the actual transfer fee with the players current club.
Warren Farm may have to be considered a lost cause if the legal entanglements we keep getting wrapped up in stop progress on development ongoing. You cant keep fighting a battle that has no end date. I would rather they say, it has not worked out like we planned and therefore we are reverting to a plan b in the short term. |  |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 10:11 - Jul 21 with 2935 views | SomersetHoops |
Tony Fernandes does give the impression that he is losing enthusiasm for QPR. It also seems after the bad decisions made before, Phil Beard is taking little part in transfer negotiations and TF is battling with Harry to find targets they agree on. I am in favour of the Rio signing, but that should be our total quota of players over say 31 for this window complete. If Harry is thinking of bringing in more older players I can understand that TF would rightly say no. Lets face it Harry isn't going to be involved in anything long term and the older players have no sell-on value for the future viability of the club.
I also think Harry likes his moments of fame with deadline day signings more important for his ego that for the benefit of the club and building a team during pre-season. I've said it many times, but it is becoming worrying that we are going on a worthless pre-season tour with half a team that won't be playing once the season starts - what is the point of that?
There were many opportunities last season to put in some of our more promising younger players which were wasted, except on one occasion when Harry was forced to put on Hitchcock who scored a good goal which was dismissed as a fluke. The result of that is we have no idea how any of the players coming up from our youth program would fit into the team and many leave without ever playing for the senior club.
In previous times we haven't had the money to bring in worse players on loans to take the place of our youngsters, so they would have to play. Our record in this area is hardly going to encourage any of the better young players to join QPR's training set-up. Harry has no interest in the development of our home trained younger players and letting them have the opportunity to develop into top class players in two or three years time, so why bother with an academy? That seems to be the logic driving the latest comments from TF, despite his previous talk about working towards the long term future of the club. This has been the attitude we have suffered for many years now and until it changes QPR will continue to need to try to buy success with money it can't possibly generate. |  |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 with 2909 views | Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 10:26 - Jul 21 with 2893 views | Discodroid |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 by Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |
fk me, he's hit the nail on the head!
i was blind and now i can see.
agree 100%  | |
| " I guess in four or five years, the new generation's music will be .. electronics, tapes. I can kind of envision .. maybe one person .. with a lot of machines, tapes, and electronics setups, singin or speaking .. and using machines " James Douglas Morrison | 1969 |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 10:26 - Jul 21 with 2898 views | CFW |
| Just begining to get worried... on 09:36 - Jul 21 by Discodroid |
good post dane hoop
.articulate and you sum up my feeling about things at the moment to a tee. |
You and me both.
I posted a couple of weeks ago re the lack of transfer activity and Rio apart we have not as yet signed anyone else. I am not that worried about Warren Farm as it is so full of problems might be a good thing to walk away from it and invest in what we currently have in place.
My worry is we do not appear to be able to get deals over the line - the players that have been bought by other teams might not be what we want but deals have been done early and squads in place we are so far behind it is a big concern.
One small positive is we have managed to off load many players and have signed players we wanted to stay on shorter contracts. This is good because it means we ned to buy less players but FFS get on with it. I am sick of being linked to players, agreeing fees and nothing!!!! |  | | |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 10:49 - Jul 21 with 2831 views | stevec |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 by Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |
Sums things up perfectly. Let's lower our expectations and just be happy when something good happens. |  | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:58 - Jul 21 with 2798 views | JonDoeman |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 by Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |
It's a good post, but we can aspire to better than bottom 6 in this league, and aim for proper mid table consolidation , that's achievable. |  |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 12:24 - Jul 21 with 2686 views | Cornish_oooRRRR |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 by Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |
Yep, spot on |  |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 12:28 - Jul 21 with 2655 views | vblockranger |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 by Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |
Sums it up...good post | | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 12:35 - Jul 21 with 2627 views | pomanjou |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 by Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |
Great post Bluce. And its transferrable to about 15 odd teams in the prem and the same in the championship. We have just joined the upper classes but it may be temporary and a relapse to the middle classes or worse may be just around the corner. |  |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 12:35 - Jul 21 with 2627 views | paulparker |
im actually happy and content to be a yo yo club, as long as we buy good young players from home & abroad, players with a sell on value, players we pay a set wage and reward them when they have done the business
yes we will be in the bottom 6 most of the time but as long as we give the big boys the odd punch on the nose and heaven forbid have a cup run I can live with that,
what the big irritation is for most fans is the way we have learnt nothing in the last 3 years or so, ageing signings, signing players with injury records as long as your arm, missing out on signing good young players, desperately trying to off load big earners,
stupid clauses in contracts (remy), last day transfer madness
false talk of training grounds, stadiums, youth teams, over priced season tickets, c rap kits
its just a cycle every year of the same mistakes and the same empty promises |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Just begining to get worried... on 13:23 - Jul 21 with 2543 views | RangerJim |
I want to see us in Europe one day... |  | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 13:28 - Jul 21 with 2531 views | derbyhoop |
I don't see why we have to settle for being a yo-yo club, spending more of our time below the PL than part of it.
OK, there's a lot of things we need to do right if we are to become an established PL club but it can be done.
By hook or by crook, we got promoted last season.
This year it's about staying up
Next year it can be about adding 3 or 4 better quality players and aiming for 12-15th
Year 3 a similar approach to have a tilt at the top half
If we get a modern, well equipped training ground, we'll be more appealing to senior players and the best youngsters
If we get a new ground with a 30k+ capacity, we can start to generate the finances that will allow us to grow.
I'm not expecting us to break the stranglehold of the top 6. Not in the rest of my lifetime, anyway.
But we can be competitive in the top flight and, possibly, win one of the cups.
And, as I said there are a lot of IFs involved but let's not write it off. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 13:48 - Jul 21 with 2465 views | facto |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:49 - Jul 21 by stevec |
Sums things up perfectly. Let's lower our expectations and just be happy when something good happens. |
your post sir i concur!!! | | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 13:51 - Jul 21 with 2459 views | Westy75 |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 by Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |
Amen to that brother. |  | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 17:12 - Jul 21 with 2391 views | wood_hoop |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:21 - Jul 21 by Bluce_Ree |
People need to realise what's what. Here's QPR in a nutshell. Occasionally we'll be in the Prem. It'll be tough and we'll take a few whoopings. We may stay up or go down but if we do stay up, we'll be going down eventually afterwards. Staying up is the best we can ever hope for. We're never going to compete for anything better than that. In our wildest dreams we may get to be Stoke. That's it. Occasionally we'll beat the Scum.
All our problems will come from us trying to be more than that.
But if you take all that into account, then days like Wembley are all that matter. It was a shit game at the end of an average season but Zamora get's the goal, and now we've got something to remember. That's it.
Forget about new grounds, investment, wages, players for the future, over the hill players. It's all a smoke screen. We are where we're supposed to be. Anywhere in the bottom six of this league or the top six of the one below. Our job as a club is to prop up the Premier League structure so that massive entities like Utd, Chelsea and City can win it. We're part of the foundation and that's it. |
Well made points, just maybe the next time we drop we might not be so lucky, Wembley a great day out and that sums it up, yo yo club, why do we have to be ?
Would take some doing for us to be a steady member of the Prem, and with our current management team not a hells chance of even the beginings of that being put in place.
So will have to accept that we will remain the cannon fodder for a few years yet, sort of grates that even with the Prem riches that have poured into the club over the last few years we are still miles away from being nothing more than a rich man's plaything. |  | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 17:27 - Jul 21 with 2370 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Just begining to get worried... on 10:58 - Jul 21 by JonDoeman |
It's a good post, but we can aspire to better than bottom 6 in this league, and aim for proper mid table consolidation , that's achievable. |
If this happens what's in it for us?
Nothing, forever, on and on, nothing.
At least if we yo-yo we get to celebrate when we yo. Or when we yo? I don't know. Mid-table mediocrity will lead to no one being bothered any more (as someone recently pointed out on here citing Bolton) and eventual relegation through apathy. |  | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 17:46 - Jul 21 with 2332 views | timcocking |
I can't remember a time when I wasn't worried about Rangers.
Agree though, bad vibes coming in. If we sign Caulker, that'll be my litmus test of the current situation. |  | | |
| Just begining to get worried... on 18:05 - Jul 21 with 2321 views | enfieldargh |
Norwich finished the 2012/2013 season with a bit to spare.
They kept most of their squad(not Grunt Holt mind) and added Nathan Redmond(highly rated young player, Leroy Fer plus quite a few more
I thought they could only improve....nargh, they performed badly and sunk
Think they will get back up again but the championship will be hard to get out of so no guarentee of yo-yoing.
If I was a Norwich fan I would have been happy with their signings of last season and should we make similar signings I would like them, feel confident of staying up...I would also be able to count to 12 with my fingers and know that my sister is probably my mums aunt |  |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 18:19 - Jul 21 with 2285 views | ted_hendrix |
Danehoop, this supporting QPR thing will drive you mad if you let it.
What kind of a nut spends a lot of his hard earnt cash trapsing all over the country to watch and support bloody blokes kicking a football?
Getting worried?
Nah not me. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 18:52 - Jul 21 with 2250 views | LowerloftLad |
If there was a time to walk away from QPR it would have been weeks ago while buzzing
It's back Down to earth now we have a good little squad but there going to take some right beatings they just need to keep going and battle tooth and nail just to survive someone like rio can only help us with the battle |  |
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| Just begining to get worried... on 18:59 - Jul 21 with 2233 views | RangersDave |
Sorry but that side, even with the addition of Rio is going to spend week in and week out sewing up the hole we've been ripped by practically every team bar 3/4 in the Premier.
That's dicing with relegation before we even kick a ball in anger.
Have we not learnt from mistakes? Players late in the day, panic buying when the good players ( or shall we say those that show promise) have moved to other teams?
Have we forgotten just how dire we were last season? And you expect Ally and Rio to make the difference?
Nope fraid not. Reality check needed.
We are too slow, not dynamic enough and havnt been since Arry and his predecessor came a calling for charity money! |  |
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