| So, Tony Fernandes 10:41 - Feb 23 with 7218 views | NW5Hoop |
At what point do people start wondering if any responsibility for the crapness of our club lies with the man who owns it, who appointed our last two managers, and who sanctioned (and in some cases drove) the signings they made?
[Post edited 23 Feb 2014 10:42]
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| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:05 - Feb 23 with 1634 views | YorkRanger |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 11:48 - Feb 23 by Neil_SI |
It's hard to know what is and isn't fact with those paper pieces, but to me, it's irrelevant in any case.
If he is a mouthpiece for "real" owners, it makes no difference, he is the Chairman of the club.
If you are so fundamentally against something and it goes against your beliefs — then you step away and resign.
The way business works in Malaysia, it's common for people to be proxies and "faces" of a business, and I suspect Fernandes is a face in some of his other business ventures back home. I don't really think this is the case for QPR though. I could be wrong — but that doesn't alter any of my views.
Let's say he's not the real owner of QPR — why would we want something like that for a club like ours? I certainly wouldn't want to be a mouthpiece behind owners at a club — you're just putting yourself in the firing line for no good reason at all.
But overall, if he is a mouthpiece, the point still stands. I'm not even sure if it's flak, I was just commenting on the fact that the owner(s) have proved to date that they've not got the patience having fired Warnock and Hughes already.
There are many on here clamouring for another change, which would be a fourth manager in a short space of time, and for me, if that trend continues, it proves we've not quite got it right from the top, if they feel they have to keep replacing managers and players.
To me, unless we stick to a plan and the culture is correct from the top, it really doesn't matter who is the manager. |
I accept TF has made mistakes, but the club without him does not bear thinking about. When he replaced Warnock there were many on here calling for that decision to be made. Equally when he replaced Hughes most on here thought that was the right decision. Whether you like HR or not keeping us up was always going to be tough and whilst there are many (me included) who thought we could have made a better effort at staying up, the writing was already on the wall.
We don't know what happens behind the scenes, but at face value it looks like in the main TF has given Redknapp everything he has asked for to take Rangers back up at the first attempt. Now that effort looks like the wheels are coming off some are pointing to the buck stopping with TF. Well that may be the case but he has put his money where his mouth is and I'm not sure what else he could have done.
Ok perhaps a football man to support Beard may have helped, but Beard was clearly brought in as the man to steer the non-football matters (new training ground, new stadium etc).
We may be suffering a bit of an identity crisis as a club (small club v big club etc), but I for one remain completely behind TF.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect Neil's considered views on this board. I do, however, find the comparisons with the ownership regimes at Cardiff and Hull a little offensive. Then again perhaps that's me with my blue and white hooped tinted glasses on... |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:09 - Feb 23 with 1626 views | QPR442 |
God we really do have some idiot fans don't we?
People forget before Tony it was BE and FB and they were complete t###s!
People forget the buckets outside before the game or Ollie not having enough players or the thought (that we were very close) to folding.
People forget the years before TF came to QPR
People need to get off TF's back because he is the best thing that has happened to this club in recent history.
He has backed the managers with money, he is open, sorting out a new training ground and stadium and still people moan?
Those moaners will be the ones that don't go to games in League One/Two if we lose our owners.
Sadly these forums really bring the trolls out at times. As I said recently we really have become spoilt. [Post edited 23 Feb 2014 12:19]
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| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:11 - Feb 23 with 1620 views | hoopstar67 |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 11:21 - Feb 23 by Neil_SI |
That's fair enough mate.
I think he had to give Hughes more time, because he picked him. He didn't pick Warnock, he inherited him. So there's a difference, sacking Hughes right away would have been an admission of failure.
For me, we'll just continue to go in swings and roundabouts with managers and players, and look, this isn't just an issue for Fernandes, it's something that started with the previous regimes before him and has carried through.
Fernandes has certainly put his money where his mouth is, no doubt about that, as did the previous owners to be fair. I just don't think they've spent well or wisely. We've got such little value for money over the years, it's incredible. |
Regarding Hughes i think he was just desperate to have a stable manager and not to be viewed in the same way as Briatore and yes Hughes was his man but most of us were happy with the appointment, hindsight maybe should have stuck with Warnock but at the time performances were not great as they are now, West Ham board should take credit for sticking with Allardyce when all around were wanting him out.Value for money i agree with, think Remy is the only one last few years. |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:15 - Feb 23 with 1606 views | NW5Hoop |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:09 - Feb 23 by QPR442 |
God we really do have some idiot fans don't we?
People forget before Tony it was BE and FB and they were complete t###s!
People forget the buckets outside before the game or Ollie not having enough players or the thought (that we were very close) to folding.
People forget the years before TF came to QPR
People need to get off TF's back because he is the best thing that has happened to this club in recent history.
He has backed the managers with money, he is open, sorting out a new training ground and stadium and still people moan?
Those moaners will be the ones that don't go to games in League One/Two if we lose our owners.
Sadly these forums really bring the trolls out at times. As I said recently we really have become spoilt. [Post edited 23 Feb 2014 12:19]
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How is he the best thing that's happened to the club? Don't cite things that we are told will happen, look at what has happened since he took over, and show me the evidence he's the best thing …
What I see is one narrow avoidance of relegation, one relegation, a load of money spent for no return, and a season that - despite us being in the playoff places - has left us with the worst atmosphere at LR I can remember, and a widespread sense that this is a massively underachieving and overpaid team.
Don't compare him with Briatore and Eccleston — anything is better by comparison, but it shouldn't be about being better than them. | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:16 - Feb 23 with 1603 views | Neil_SI |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:05 - Feb 23 by YorkRanger |
I accept TF has made mistakes, but the club without him does not bear thinking about. When he replaced Warnock there were many on here calling for that decision to be made. Equally when he replaced Hughes most on here thought that was the right decision. Whether you like HR or not keeping us up was always going to be tough and whilst there are many (me included) who thought we could have made a better effort at staying up, the writing was already on the wall.
We don't know what happens behind the scenes, but at face value it looks like in the main TF has given Redknapp everything he has asked for to take Rangers back up at the first attempt. Now that effort looks like the wheels are coming off some are pointing to the buck stopping with TF. Well that may be the case but he has put his money where his mouth is and I'm not sure what else he could have done.
Ok perhaps a football man to support Beard may have helped, but Beard was clearly brought in as the man to steer the non-football matters (new training ground, new stadium etc).
We may be suffering a bit of an identity crisis as a club (small club v big club etc), but I for one remain completely behind TF.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect Neil's considered views on this board. I do, however, find the comparisons with the ownership regimes at Cardiff and Hull a little offensive. Then again perhaps that's me with my blue and white hooped tinted glasses on... |
It will certainly be hard for us to find somebody else with deep enough pockets and who ticks all of the boxes. At the level they've gone to, that's the problem, but again, that's why we should never have gone down that route in the first place. Owners, managers and players come and go, they all have their time, and there needs to be bigger picture planning to facilitate smoother transitions between all of those things.
The worry we have is if the current owners leave, the debt is most likely going to be loaded onto QPR and then we would be in serious trouble, though I do believe would be able to recover eventually even if it took many years and restarting from scratch.
I think what's more interesting for me, is just how important things like promotion to the Premier League and staying there is important to fans in the current climate. That seems to be more important than a healthy, stable and well run football club. Or maybe they kind of go hand in hand, with people feeling we need these things to give ourselves a chance of doing that in the future.
But we achieved that in the past with no money and just plain old grafting and hard work.
I think not having a football man in the background at board level is a mistake, so certainly agree and am with you on that.
Sorry if I offended you, perhaps you've taken it in a way I didn't intend. There are similarities, but Fernandes knows what he can and can't do, and what you should and shouldn't do a bit more than some of the others. Some of the others just don't care or are too stupid, that's where Fernandes isn't. I suppose in some ways it was more of a compliment to him than an insult, but ultimately they all want to use football clubs as a vehicle for some other agenda and interest, and that's what I meant when I said I saw similarities.
Personally I understand that, and in the main there's nothing wrong with using a football club to help promote other interests, but I just wish that wasn't the case for my club. It's always about putting football first, and QPR first, for me. |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:22 - Feb 23 with 1583 views | THEBUSH |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:01 - Feb 23 by Neil_SI |
I think he has plenty of positives, I'm just not sure he is right for football or even sport.
He's not had a great time in Formula 1 either, he's been involved there for four or five years and yet to register a single point. It's a different kettle of fish obviously... but sport is about building environments that encourage you to develop, compete and win and you need the knowhow in those sports to do so. |
Wow that's a sweeping statement Neil, never thought I'd hear something as controversial as that from yourself.
Anyway, how is TF not building the right environment for QPR, the club are investing millions in a new youth set-up, they have invested millions in the team and are planning a new stadium.
Success doesn't happen overnight, it takes years and lots of investment, with plenty of mistakes along the way.
Thankfully there are still plenty of people on thIs board who support TF. |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:30 - Feb 23 with 1574 views | Neil_SI |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:22 - Feb 23 by THEBUSH |
Wow that's a sweeping statement Neil, never thought I'd hear something as controversial as that from yourself.
Anyway, how is TF not building the right environment for QPR, the club are investing millions in a new youth set-up, they have invested millions in the team and are planning a new stadium.
Success doesn't happen overnight, it takes years and lots of investment, with plenty of mistakes along the way.
Thankfully there are still plenty of people on thIs board who support TF. |
I hope you're right mate, I want it to work as much as the next person.
I said elsewhere, if we only spent money on the training ground, youth infrastructure and scouting network, I'd be over the moon. But we don't have any of those things in place yet, and I will remain optimistic about them but cautious until they arrive.
I'd still question about some of those things mind, if you read one of my posts here I did a while back, then you'll probably understand what I mean. I've always said it's one thing building some of these things, it's another thing entirely running them efficiently and properly.
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/forum/100951/page:2
And you know, who knows, maybe a lot of this is teething issues and growing pains, but we'll only know if that was the case a little further down the line. Hopefully it is just something like that. | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:39 - Feb 23 with 1566 views | THEBUSH |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:30 - Feb 23 by Neil_SI |
I hope you're right mate, I want it to work as much as the next person.
I said elsewhere, if we only spent money on the training ground, youth infrastructure and scouting network, I'd be over the moon. But we don't have any of those things in place yet, and I will remain optimistic about them but cautious until they arrive.
I'd still question about some of those things mind, if you read one of my posts here I did a while back, then you'll probably understand what I mean. I've always said it's one thing building some of these things, it's another thing entirely running them efficiently and properly.
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/forum/100951/page:2
And you know, who knows, maybe a lot of this is teething issues and growing pains, but we'll only know if that was the case a little further down the line. Hopefully it is just something like that. |
From my point of view, TF should be encouraged, the last thing we need, imo, is for him to lose interest and leave.
The first team policy has been a disaster, but Warren Farm the new stadium plans are positive.
QPR need to move forward, time marches on, we can't stay as we are, that's for sure. | | | |
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| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:44 - Feb 23 with 1559 views | YorkRanger |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:16 - Feb 23 by Neil_SI |
It will certainly be hard for us to find somebody else with deep enough pockets and who ticks all of the boxes. At the level they've gone to, that's the problem, but again, that's why we should never have gone down that route in the first place. Owners, managers and players come and go, they all have their time, and there needs to be bigger picture planning to facilitate smoother transitions between all of those things.
The worry we have is if the current owners leave, the debt is most likely going to be loaded onto QPR and then we would be in serious trouble, though I do believe would be able to recover eventually even if it took many years and restarting from scratch.
I think what's more interesting for me, is just how important things like promotion to the Premier League and staying there is important to fans in the current climate. That seems to be more important than a healthy, stable and well run football club. Or maybe they kind of go hand in hand, with people feeling we need these things to give ourselves a chance of doing that in the future.
But we achieved that in the past with no money and just plain old grafting and hard work.
I think not having a football man in the background at board level is a mistake, so certainly agree and am with you on that.
Sorry if I offended you, perhaps you've taken it in a way I didn't intend. There are similarities, but Fernandes knows what he can and can't do, and what you should and shouldn't do a bit more than some of the others. Some of the others just don't care or are too stupid, that's where Fernandes isn't. I suppose in some ways it was more of a compliment to him than an insult, but ultimately they all want to use football clubs as a vehicle for some other agenda and interest, and that's what I meant when I said I saw similarities.
Personally I understand that, and in the main there's nothing wrong with using a football club to help promote other interests, but I just wish that wasn't the case for my club. It's always about putting football first, and QPR first, for me. |
Happy to beg to differ Neil. We both want the best for QPR. I just think that currently is with TF at the helm. | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:50 - Feb 23 with 1551 views | baz_qpr |
Belly full of hindsight here.
Hughes and Redknapp were clearly the best managers available at the time. Hughes was bought in to be a club builder to put in place infrastructure etc but royally f-upped in the transfer market, in the main on short term buys to buy survival. His big failing was man management. So he goes and is replaced by other than SAF the manager who was considered to be the best man manager around and again there were not much better options available at the time. Who again made a number of short term buys as we'll as some longer term decent ones, but is not interested in the club building or even coaching.
We have a chairmen who has financed the club put more into infrastructure, reset up the academy, hired what seemed to most as the best managers in the market place and then backed them. If they did not back them or questioned their judgement then you would have a Briatore situation again. In fact the only time we had any success with promotion was the when a manager was finally left to it. But even then it was a really short term approach that successive managers have been fighting to recover from.
I don't really know what people want, should we be a league one club in a dilapidated stadium, soon to play second fiddle to Brentford in their new stadium, or should we celebrate the investment we have had an bemoan the luck that when we hired proven experience with the best available CV it failed to deliver |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 15:36 - Feb 23 with 1492 views | QPR442 |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:15 - Feb 23 by NW5Hoop |
How is he the best thing that's happened to the club? Don't cite things that we are told will happen, look at what has happened since he took over, and show me the evidence he's the best thing …
What I see is one narrow avoidance of relegation, one relegation, a load of money spent for no return, and a season that - despite us being in the playoff places - has left us with the worst atmosphere at LR I can remember, and a widespread sense that this is a massively underachieving and overpaid team.
Don't compare him with Briatore and Eccleston — anything is better by comparison, but it shouldn't be about being better than them. |
As I said we do have some idiot fans | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:00 - Feb 23 with 1476 views | johnnyl14 |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 12:02 - Feb 23 by SpiritofGregory |
No one has a problem with Tony being at the club, he is a very likeable chap and he and the other shareholders have invested in our club. However that should not mask his shortcomings as a football chairman. He is very good at the corporate side it's just that he knows nothing about football, players, managers and agents. I'm sure that we are all in agreement that his transfer policy has been a failure and we recognised it early on.
It's better to pick off the gems in the lower leagues then to sign ex premier league rejects. If you don't want to waste lots of money and would rather unearth young quality players from the lower leagues, don't employ Harry. The chairman should always control the manager, the chairman should never be in awe of the manager (Hughes interviewing the club). You should always sign a manager who is producing results at their current club such as where they are in the league and what resources they've had and if they promote youth and have a track record of finding quality affordable players. They should also be delighted to join your club and see it as a step up and the same goes for the players. |
Well said. | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:15 - Feb 23 with 1461 views | themodfather |
i think the problem is qprfc have planned too big too soon,, if that makes sense, instead of building it up..we;ve gone straight to an ambitious warren farm (much needed) and before a brick laid have gone for a 40,000 new stadium.
it's good to have a future but before that, we needed to steady ship....sell out 18000 and have strong roots ( let the academy bring the players thru and use them with a mix of experience etc) .
TF has backed any manager but i still cannot get why mark hughes was given so much power, based on nothing. | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:17 - Feb 23 with 1455 views | EalingRanger |
I don't see why TF giving 'Arry "everything he needed" is the sign of a good chairman.
For me it's a sign of pi$$ poor judgement. 'Arry should've gone in the summer when he was dicking about over Wayne Bridge. His reluctance to do the job this season has been obvious, it's why his teams have stunk Loftus Road out every other week this season. |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:31 - Feb 23 with 1443 views | Tripper |
I think because the wheels have fallen off a bit it's easy to be critical of the way the board and management have approached the season but because of the vast amounts of money at stake it was a shit or bust strategy just to get promoted. The reality is the best way of doing it is a short term strategy of experienced players.
In the main Harry's buys have been pretty decent (Benyoun aside) I would have a strategy of never buying a player who has played for a bigger club than yours, it rarely works as everything is crap compared to what they're used to so its hard to motivate them.
The Austin type should be the exact type of player we buy. He loves it, it's a big club in his world, he's young and he's a saleable asset. When a player walks through the door we want the ones who go wow! Not the ones who like what a little shithole. Because our club is both of those things, it just depends on your perspective.
Personally, I don't care if we get promoted or not, I hated everything about last season but I understand the financial need to return quickly.
If it happens, I love to see us buy some young, hungry players from wherever we need to find them. If we get beat every game, I won't care like I did last year because it will feel much more like our club again. |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:35 - Feb 23 with 1306 views | baz_qpr |
There aren't many profitable clubs in the championship if any, that is the point though the gap is so vast financially and the budget required just to stay in the championship is crazy.
Look at the end of the day in August if we had said we were going to be top 4 at the end of feb having been there all season we would have all just turned around and laughed the fact we are stuffed full of over 30's is no different to where we were with Warnock, prior to TF, take Adel out of that team and we were mid table at best. When Hughes took over in his first game we played the oldest team ever fielded in Premiership history.
The balance is wrong however:
we've bought a hell of a lot of players, some good some bad, some fading fast, we've employed managers with good reputations in the transfer market that have failed, we have had the former head of Man City's scouting and the former head of spurs scouting and the best players we've bought we would have all have chosen from the pick of last years championship players and in truth only 1 of those has truely has fired.
I just don't think its quite as simple as some make out | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:36 - Feb 23 with 1302 views | QPR442 |
Maybe we should swap TF for the bloke at Cardiff, see how happy our fans will be then?
TF has only tried to improve QPR but sadly he puts too much faith in his managers.
If they say 'Tony I need these players to keep us up/take us up' then is he going to say no?
No good moaning about Phil Beard because he is here for new stadium and major marketing.
The blame must come down to Harry and his poor preparation for this season relying on BZ and AJ when we all knew they were never the answer and wasting another Transfer window.
I will say however that maybe turning vinegar into wine takes more time than the board think.
We should all realise how lucky we are to have TF because as I have said many times I was there when the buckets were out and it wasn't good. Maybe the posters complaining about TF were not there then. | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:45 - Feb 23 with 1288 views | hoopstilidie |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 11:57 - Feb 23 by NW5Hoop |
The point about the culture of the club is crucial. Dave Mac's been banging on about this for ages — and he's surely been proved an awful lot more right than wrong. The culture of our club under the Fernandes era, regardless of who the manager has been, has been: if they're famous and available, sign them, regardless of age and wage demands. Now, the common thread in all those signings has been the board, not the manager. So why does everyone assume it MUST be the manager's fault we've found ourselves lumbered with so many overpaid underachievers. And even if all those signings were the managers' doing, surely it's part of the chairman's job to say no sometimes?
Yes, of course I want a chairman who'll make money available for the right signings. But I also want a chairman who'll say, "You know what, I really don't think Jermaine Jenas, Yossi Benayoun etc will add much to the team," and one who won't say, "Park Ji Sung will really help us crack the south east Asian market." |
"Dave Mac's been banging on about this for ages — and he's surely been proved an awful lot more right than wrong."
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| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:50 - Feb 23 with 1281 views | Neil_SI |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:31 - Feb 23 by Tripper |
I think because the wheels have fallen off a bit it's easy to be critical of the way the board and management have approached the season but because of the vast amounts of money at stake it was a shit or bust strategy just to get promoted. The reality is the best way of doing it is a short term strategy of experienced players.
In the main Harry's buys have been pretty decent (Benyoun aside) I would have a strategy of never buying a player who has played for a bigger club than yours, it rarely works as everything is crap compared to what they're used to so its hard to motivate them.
The Austin type should be the exact type of player we buy. He loves it, it's a big club in his world, he's young and he's a saleable asset. When a player walks through the door we want the ones who go wow! Not the ones who like what a little shithole. Because our club is both of those things, it just depends on your perspective.
Personally, I don't care if we get promoted or not, I hated everything about last season but I understand the financial need to return quickly.
If it happens, I love to see us buy some young, hungry players from wherever we need to find them. If we get beat every game, I won't care like I did last year because it will feel much more like our club again. |
I agree with a lot of these comments.
But the strategy in terms of the bigger picture was reasonably high risk, I wrote some thoughts about that here actually.
http://www.qprtoday.net/2014/02/23/some-thoughts-on-redknapp-the-backroom-team-a | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 17:04 - Feb 23 with 1257 views | Loft1979 |
+1 |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 19:23 - Feb 23 with 1222 views | NW5Hoop |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 15:36 - Feb 23 by QPR442 |
As I said we do have some idiot fans |
Is that how you always deal with people who ask questions or who don't think the same as you? Just call them idiots? I haven't been uncivil to you; I asked you to explain how TF was the best thing that's ever happened to the club. Is that really the best response you can manage? | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 19:28 - Feb 23 with 1209 views | QPR442 |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 19:23 - Feb 23 by NW5Hoop |
Is that how you always deal with people who ask questions or who don't think the same as you? Just call them idiots? I haven't been uncivil to you; I asked you to explain how TF was the best thing that's ever happened to the club. Is that really the best response you can manage? |
yeah sorry about that, came across a bit rude. | | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 19:41 - Feb 23 with 1198 views | QPRDave |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 19:23 - Feb 23 by NW5Hoop |
Is that how you always deal with people who ask questions or who don't think the same as you? Just call them idiots? I haven't been uncivil to you; I asked you to explain how TF was the best thing that's ever happened to the club. Is that really the best response you can manage? |
If i could jump in here, if you don't mind that is. I think Tony is the best thing to happen simply because he gives me hope and brings excitement for the future, something we haven't had a very long time. |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 01:41 - Feb 24 with 1124 views | RangersAreBack |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 16:36 - Feb 23 by QPR442 |
Maybe we should swap TF for the bloke at Cardiff, see how happy our fans will be then?
TF has only tried to improve QPR but sadly he puts too much faith in his managers.
If they say 'Tony I need these players to keep us up/take us up' then is he going to say no?
No good moaning about Phil Beard because he is here for new stadium and major marketing.
The blame must come down to Harry and his poor preparation for this season relying on BZ and AJ when we all knew they were never the answer and wasting another Transfer window.
I will say however that maybe turning vinegar into wine takes more time than the board think.
We should all realise how lucky we are to have TF because as I have said many times I was there when the buckets were out and it wasn't good. Maybe the posters complaining about TF were not there then. |
No one is suggesting TF pulls out, just that he stands down as chairman. There is a big difference. |  | | |
| So, Tony Fernandes on 02:26 - Feb 24 with 1112 views | johnhoop |
I'm like York Ranger in finding the comparisons of TF to the Hull and Cardiff owners downright offensive. During those appalling years of the "4 year plan" and "boutique club" when the fat orange one was trying to pick the team, all the vast majority of us supporters wanted was for the owner to let the manager get on with the job without interference. So TF has done this and left it to the so-called experts. It is not his fault that these highly regarded "experts" both turned out to be totallly incompetent without any real clue what they were doing.
I actually feel sorry for Tony Fernandes. As an owner he has tried to do as good a job as possible for the club and the fans but has been appallingly let down by two people well regarded within the game who appeared to be the best choices available at the time. | | | |
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