| Tactical approach 22:59 - Oct 1 with 5274 views | QPRConor2000 |
I do wonder if its time we looked at our tactics.
This back 4 clearly isn't working for us, and it's clearly causing us to be so open defensively.
I do gueniuely wonder if its time for us to revert to a back 3 and have Paal and Ashby as wing backs.
Marti needs to look again imo, cause something clearly isn't working at the moment. |  | | |  |
| Tactical approach on 23:40 - Oct 1 with 5133 views | Logman |
I think the tactics and formation are OK. The problem was that individual players weren't good enough today, pretty much throughout the team. Right back, centre back, centre mid and up front, the quality was very patchy. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 23:52 - Oct 1 with 5083 views | Hunterhoop |
I think the tactics are wrong.
We played 4141 today. Or at least that is the shape we held for much of the game. Whether Madsen was meant to be 10 yards in front of Field, is a different question.
Our front 5, more precisely the 4 behind Frey (Saito, Madsen, Andersen, Dembele) were too high and failed to get back goalside when we turned the ball over. Countless times all 5 of those players were the wrong side of the ball “running” back towards our box.
This was compounded by Paal inverting (badly) a lot, leaving a huge hole behind him which forced Dunne out to cover him. That gives Cook a massive problem. He can’t leave a huge gap to Dunne but if he doesn’t, Santos comes narrow and the cross field pass is on with them in acres of space and Santos isolated. Field could drop in to help Cook and keep a more natural back 4, which he did sometimes, but that cedes the midfield entirely.
Our system was a complete mess. You cannot have 5 outfield players not contributing to your defensive set up out of possession. I repeat. 1 tackle all game from that front 5. 1 tackle from the subs that replaced them. So 2 tackles from the front 5 all game. Passengers when we don’t have it. You can’t get away with that in the Championship. |  | | |
| Tactical approach on 00:48 - Oct 2 with 4924 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Tactical approach on 23:40 - Oct 1 by Logman |
I think the tactics and formation are OK. The problem was that individual players weren't good enough today, pretty much throughout the team. Right back, centre back, centre mid and up front, the quality was very patchy. |
If the players aren't capable of executing the tactics, then the tactics are wrong.
Marti needs to revert to what worked last season. [Post edited 2 Oct 1:03]
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| Tactical approach on 07:07 - Oct 2 with 4692 views | oldmeadoniansR |
| Tactical approach on 23:52 - Oct 1 by Hunterhoop |
I think the tactics are wrong.
We played 4141 today. Or at least that is the shape we held for much of the game. Whether Madsen was meant to be 10 yards in front of Field, is a different question.
Our front 5, more precisely the 4 behind Frey (Saito, Madsen, Andersen, Dembele) were too high and failed to get back goalside when we turned the ball over. Countless times all 5 of those players were the wrong side of the ball “running” back towards our box.
This was compounded by Paal inverting (badly) a lot, leaving a huge hole behind him which forced Dunne out to cover him. That gives Cook a massive problem. He can’t leave a huge gap to Dunne but if he doesn’t, Santos comes narrow and the cross field pass is on with them in acres of space and Santos isolated. Field could drop in to help Cook and keep a more natural back 4, which he did sometimes, but that cedes the midfield entirely.
Our system was a complete mess. You cannot have 5 outfield players not contributing to your defensive set up out of possession. I repeat. 1 tackle all game from that front 5. 1 tackle from the subs that replaced them. So 2 tackles from the front 5 all game. Passengers when we don’t have it. You can’t get away with that in the Championship. |
Pretty stark facts. The press seemed to create chances in the first half and that is offensive defensive work but front five but I imagine it was turnover ball that killed us. 2 tackles!! | | | |
| Tactical approach on 07:28 - Oct 2 with 4628 views | mart_Goblin |
We have to stop giving the ball away so easily in dangerous (to us) areas. Santos, Andersen and Celar all giving the ball up too easily which lead to goals . When we are that wide open we can’t afford to be sloppy with the ball and we are really sloppy . |  | | |
| Tactical approach on 08:01 - Oct 2 with 4515 views | gazza1 |
We need JCS back a left sided CB, move Dunne back to RB. The RB is not currently good enough.
We need Colback back into CM to bring back our combat & experience into the midfield.
We need Chair back wide right midfield.
Three of our best and most influential players missing is always going to be a concern.
The squad players need to 'up their game'. Talk what you like about tactics, and I am not saying we have it 100% right in that area, but it is the quality of the players performances over the past few games is the main problem. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 08:19 - Oct 2 with 4448 views | Jimboqpr |
I think the shape possibly needs to change when JCS and Colback aren't available. Although if you cant defend short corners then it doesn't really matter what formation you play. In an attacking sense, I think this shape works because we create chances and score goals in most games with it and we had over 20 shots with it last night, so I think some fine tuning is needed rather than a complete overhaul. We also need to work out a more suitable role for Madsen too, because he did quite well in that wide attacking left CM role in the first half when we had the ball, but without it he looked lost in a defensive sense to me. Field was on his own in there. Not getting Hayden (or someone like him) back is looking like a bigger mistake with every passing game at the moment though. We need a calming presence in CDM. | | | |
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| Tactical approach on 10:45 - Oct 2 with 4232 views | golborne |
| Tactical approach on 00:48 - Oct 2 by Benny_the_Ball |
If the players aren't capable of executing the tactics, then the tactics are wrong.
Marti needs to revert to what worked last season. [Post edited 2 Oct 1:03]
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That would require having two of the best attacking players in the division available for selection as per 6 months ago. Our best defender available every week and our best central midfielder, or only tidy one. The tactics haven’t changed, they’ll get switched up slightly for different games, but the big thing is the personnel have.
It was much much better tonight than previous games, but it needs to be for 90 mins. Saito is getting up to speed and Chair will be up to speed in a month, and those attacking options are crucial. Putting other teams on the back foot makes things a lot easier for the defence. They were under the kosh in the first 20, and didn’t lay a glove on us. One goal out of nothing and it changed.
We’ll be fine if we can keep key players fit. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 11:03 - Oct 2 with 4161 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Tactical approach on 08:01 - Oct 2 by gazza1 |
We need JCS back a left sided CB, move Dunne back to RB. The RB is not currently good enough.
We need Colback back into CM to bring back our combat & experience into the midfield.
We need Chair back wide right midfield.
Three of our best and most influential players missing is always going to be a concern.
The squad players need to 'up their game'. Talk what you like about tactics, and I am not saying we have it 100% right in that area, but it is the quality of the players performances over the past few games is the main problem. |
I have you right on all 3 counts Gazza. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 11:18 - Oct 2 with 4101 views | TheChef |
| Tactical approach on 08:01 - Oct 2 by gazza1 |
We need JCS back a left sided CB, move Dunne back to RB. The RB is not currently good enough.
We need Colback back into CM to bring back our combat & experience into the midfield.
We need Chair back wide right midfield.
Three of our best and most influential players missing is always going to be a concern.
The squad players need to 'up their game'. Talk what you like about tactics, and I am not saying we have it 100% right in that area, but it is the quality of the players performances over the past few games is the main problem. |
Agreed.
Problem is Chair needs a bit of time to get back up to speed.
Colback needs to stay injury free and avoid suspensions...
JCS needs to stay fit too (really hope he's not reverting to his on/off injury record).
We'll get there. |  |
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| Tactical approach on 11:29 - Oct 2 with 4071 views | nick_hammersmith |
How much sh1t are we in that we look this ropey without Colback in the squad? |  | | |
| Tactical approach on 12:00 - Oct 2 with 3944 views | bosh67 |
| Tactical approach on 11:29 - Oct 2 by nick_hammersmith |
How much sh1t are we in that we look this ropey without Colback in the squad? |
I think this comes down to Varane not getting up to speed yet and of course not having Hayden. Varane hasn't clicked yet but I do feel we are a deep mid short still. |  |
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| Tactical approach on 12:43 - Oct 2 with 3861 views | gazza1 |
| Tactical approach on 11:29 - Oct 2 by nick_hammersmith |
How much sh1t are we in that we look this ropey without Colback in the squad? |
Not 100% sure what you 'actually' mean. Just because he is an 'old one' doesn't mean that he isn't still an influential midfielder in this team & league.
What I can say is Colback is a very important part of the midfield but not only that, he is very important to this inexperienced team & squad.
Get the three players back and watch for the team improvements.....we will be a far better all round team. [Post edited 2 Oct 12:45]
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| Tactical approach on 12:53 - Oct 2 with 3811 views | golborne |
| Tactical approach on 00:48 - Oct 2 by Benny_the_Ball |
If the players aren't capable of executing the tactics, then the tactics are wrong.
Marti needs to revert to what worked last season. [Post edited 2 Oct 1:03]
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That would require having two of the best attacking players in the division available for selection as per 6 months ago. Our best defender available every week and our best central midfielder, or only tidy one. The tactics haven’t changed, they’ll get switched up slightly for different games, but the big thing is the personnel have.
It was much much better tonight than previous games, but it needs to be for 90 mins. Saito is getting up to speed and Chair will be up to speed in a month, and those attacking options are crucial. Putting other teams on the back foot makes things a lot easier for the defence. They were under the kosh in the first 20, and didn’t lay a glove on us. One goal out of nothing and it changed.
We’ll be fine if we can keep key players fit. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 13:14 - Oct 2 with 3758 views | plasmahoop |
I seem to remember Clive writing that several managers, hasselbaink, holloway, mclaren all ended up reaching the same conclusion, that they needed to play 3 central midfielders in theree to protect the defence. I think its probably even more imperative now reading hunterhoops excellent analysis above. You have to be a bit defensive, five players not contributing to the defence when out of possession is terrible. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 14:22 - Oct 2 with 3636 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
Others have said it - we're just way too open at the moment with too many flair players. Last night we have the two wingers, Madsen and Andersen, all of whom are not helping out much defensively. That's pretty mad. Every time they broke there's basically Field and then you're through to the defence. Add in a shocking display by our right-back and it was like a knife through butter. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 17:54 - Oct 2 with 3407 views | Jules4367 |
Please please can someone thibnk of something different at free kicks.
I bemoaned this last season that all we do is either cross or shoot and always to no avail.
When they have two or three people in the wall, we have an advantage and when we stand two men over the ball I have said have one man peel off behind the wall and a short pass means we are in behind them and we take two or three of them in the wall out of the game! We did this ONCE last year and scored.
Separately, when we are kicking long and everyone goes to the right side of the pitch , the left hand side of the pitch is empty! Why cannot the keeper occasionally signal intent and two of our players be prepared to peel off as THEY know the ball is not going ointo the same place but is going left?!
Bottom line is DO something different, we are TOO predictable.
Stop passing to the other team (or Jude the cat! on the touchline)
Celar and Frey please anticipate and move rather than waiting for ther perfect delivery
The number of times last night where Nardi wanted to release quickly but no one was running was deplorabe! | | | |
| Tactical approach on 09:57 - Oct 3 with 2996 views | R_from_afar |
| Tactical approach on 08:19 - Oct 2 by Jimboqpr |
I think the shape possibly needs to change when JCS and Colback aren't available. Although if you cant defend short corners then it doesn't really matter what formation you play. In an attacking sense, I think this shape works because we create chances and score goals in most games with it and we had over 20 shots with it last night, so I think some fine tuning is needed rather than a complete overhaul. We also need to work out a more suitable role for Madsen too, because he did quite well in that wide attacking left CM role in the first half when we had the ball, but without it he looked lost in a defensive sense to me. Field was on his own in there. Not getting Hayden (or someone like him) back is looking like a bigger mistake with every passing game at the moment though. We need a calming presence in CDM. |
"We need a calming presence in CDM".
Agreed and I would actually like to see us try one of our defenders in the defensive two in midfield, alongside Field. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Tactical approach on 10:06 - Oct 3 with 2977 views | wombat |
| Tactical approach on 09:57 - Oct 3 by R_from_afar |
"We need a calming presence in CDM".
Agreed and I would actually like to see us try one of our defenders in the defensive two in midfield, alongside Field. |
we also need to leave at least one player up when we are defending a corner , we have saito and dembele both 5ft tall and both quick leave at least on eup they leave two or more back , also means we dont conceed the usual shot from the egde of the box as we seems to be in recent games . and if nadri actually claims the cross he then has a quikc outlet to get the ball forward. |  |
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| Tactical approach on 10:50 - Oct 3 with 2899 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Tactical approach on 07:53 - Oct 2 by davman |
He can't.
We did not sign Hayden.
The new signings bar Nardi have NOT improved last season's starting eleven (yet).
Did NOT expect to be in a relegation fight this season, but, here we are AGAIN.  |
He can by reverting Jimmy to RB and being a little more pragmatic so we're at least difficult to beat.
What you don't do when you have an average squad including a clutch of new signings that "have NOT improved last season's starting eleven" is ask them to start playing out from the back.
It's the Championship and we're not Man City. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 11:25 - Oct 3 with 2878 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Tactical approach on 12:53 - Oct 2 by golborne |
That would require having two of the best attacking players in the division available for selection as per 6 months ago. Our best defender available every week and our best central midfielder, or only tidy one. The tactics haven’t changed, they’ll get switched up slightly for different games, but the big thing is the personnel have.
It was much much better tonight than previous games, but it needs to be for 90 mins. Saito is getting up to speed and Chair will be up to speed in a month, and those attacking options are crucial. Putting other teams on the back foot makes things a lot easier for the defence. They were under the kosh in the first 20, and didn’t lay a glove on us. One goal out of nothing and it changed.
We’ll be fine if we can keep key players fit. |
We were very lucky with injuries last season but this season it’s been standard with about three or four players unavailable most games and Cifuentes has to deal with this. Those saying we will be fine once Chair, JCS and Colback are fit aren’t allowing for the fact that they will probably be replacing other injured players who we will miss. Same for all clubs really unless they are very lucky.
God help us if Cook or Frey are out for extended periods of time….. |  | | |
| Tactical approach on 12:40 - Oct 3 with 2816 views | Pikey |
| Tactical approach on 11:25 - Oct 3 by Ned_Kennedys |
We were very lucky with injuries last season but this season it’s been standard with about three or four players unavailable most games and Cifuentes has to deal with this. Those saying we will be fine once Chair, JCS and Colback are fit aren’t allowing for the fact that they will probably be replacing other injured players who we will miss. Same for all clubs really unless they are very lucky.
God help us if Cook or Frey are out for extended periods of time….. |
Personally if we are gonna persist with playing out from the back we need to speed it up. It's all very slow and laboured and seems quite easy to press and contain.
The ball needs to be pinged rather than stroked when passing. | | | |
| Tactical approach on 17:41 - Oct 3 with 2545 views | QPRConor2000 |
| Tactical approach on 12:40 - Oct 3 by Pikey |
Personally if we are gonna persist with playing out from the back we need to speed it up. It's all very slow and laboured and seems quite easy to press and contain.
The ball needs to be pinged rather than stroked when passing. |
Agreed on your point about playing out from the back, if your going to do that then you need to move it with urgency, especially as teams will always high press us in those situations.
We cant be afraid sometimes to occasionally play the ball long to avoid 1v1 situations with opposition players.
I personally do think we need to look at going back to basics, we need to stop being so passive sometimes. | | | |
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