| Jermaine jenas 16:36 - Aug 22 with 24918 views | loftboy |
Sacked by the BBC for inappropriate behaviour!
Not such a friendly ghost after all! |  |
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| Jermaine jenas on 01:55 - Aug 27 with 2471 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Jermaine jenas on 01:02 - Aug 27 by E17hoop |
Harassment is many many messages over a long period
No it's not. Harassment can be as simple as committing a behaviour twice - once is bad, twice is harassment.
It has been said , it was only a couple but to two women of which ONLY one reported it.
So because ONLY one reported it and it was ONLY two women it doesn't matter?
All was saying is that what he did was weird and wrong. Very odd in my book to be sending a top less picture of himself to two colleagues and arrogant but sexual harassment.
Yes, it is. If the messages sent were unwarranted that's still sexual harassment.
In general that particular charge , I would put at unwarranted touching etc and persistent messaging of which some was in appropriate.
See above - a repeated message is harassment.
Am speaking as an older person, back in my parents day, my mum would say it's just how men were ie pinching someone s bum was normal. In my time too, it was more liberal.
Back in my Mum's day the local nonces could go around sexually assaulting schoolgirls and get away with it because 'it's how men were'. That doesn't make it right or acceptable.
These days it's considered an offence.
Because it is.
If its not warranted then definitely people need to be aware but only one complained and this has therefore been halted which is good
Agreed.
I was questioning the offence of sackable offence, particularly after they been so lenient to a known paedophile to them , which was way worse.
I'd suggest the employer is holding themselves to a higher standard now following previous events and it is almost guaranteed he's in breach of contract. If not, he has the right to challenge it via employment law.
It's a weird world today, where if you brush too close to someone they can accuse you of unwanted attention but you can free of charge see all kinds of debauchery online that is legal.
You say a weird world, I say a normal world. I have managed to get 55+ years on this earth without having done that.
And then this bloke sends a top less picture of himself which is weird and wrong but people saying it's serious when the man has been an idiot, but from my experience it's not sackable
See above - contractual
From personal experience working for a small charity, the chief went with two of the staff, they got away with everything and wages were increased, the structure was all wrong and none of us could complain and we all needed our jobs so we all said nothing and he got away with everything
Whistleblowing legislation was brought in for this purpose.
This is nowhere near the same level. But I have been told off for trivialising it. But am speaking from personal experience of things a lot worse and all I highlighted was the BBC so lenient on Huw Edwards and paying him shed loads, whilst making Jenas a convenient scapegoat for the crap decisions in their past.
As above - contract and higher standard
Nowhere did I say I agreed with what he did. Just saying they could have dealt with this in a much fairer way.
If he has harassed someone and is in breach of his contract, why is it unfair?
But it's all turned out OK because Jenas won't be the successor to Lineker on MOTD...
Agreed
Probably now be someone squeaky clean. Joey Barton, he has quite a clean record and is a fine upstanding individual so I am led to believe !!! 😂
Irony
This is ridiculous though that it's front page news. Storm in a tea cup is the phrase.
It will be forgotten by the general public soon enough. It might even be acknowledged and forgotten by Jenas should he keep his family and another job. When will the victims of harassment forget it?
But these days everything is magnified way beyond what it should be.
Behaviour like this SHOULD be magnified and shown to be unacceptable.
The world today is completely mad !!!!
Or sane.
Common sense and reality are rarely in evidence. Everything is a MAJOR issue.
Things which have an impact on the personal live of abused women SHOULD be major.
The mobile phone generation is one that's removing the ability to be human....
The mobile phone has just publicised the behaviour which has been around for centuries and men (because it is) don't like being held up to new standards.
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'Girls' bodies aren't responsible for boys' thoughts'? Seriously!? [Post edited 27 Aug 1:55]
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| Jermaine jenas on 03:58 - Aug 27 with 2386 views | numptydumpty |
| Jermaine jenas on 01:02 - Aug 27 by E17hoop |
Harassment is many many messages over a long period
No it's not. Harassment can be as simple as committing a behaviour twice - once is bad, twice is harassment.
It has been said , it was only a couple but to two women of which ONLY one reported it.
So because ONLY one reported it and it was ONLY two women it doesn't matter?
All was saying is that what he did was weird and wrong. Very odd in my book to be sending a top less picture of himself to two colleagues and arrogant but sexual harassment.
Yes, it is. If the messages sent were unwarranted that's still sexual harassment.
In general that particular charge , I would put at unwarranted touching etc and persistent messaging of which some was in appropriate.
See above - a repeated message is harassment.
Am speaking as an older person, back in my parents day, my mum would say it's just how men were ie pinching someone s bum was normal. In my time too, it was more liberal.
Back in my Mum's day the local nonces could go around sexually assaulting schoolgirls and get away with it because 'it's how men were'. That doesn't make it right or acceptable.
These days it's considered an offence.
Because it is.
If its not warranted then definitely people need to be aware but only one complained and this has therefore been halted which is good
Agreed.
I was questioning the offence of sackable offence, particularly after they been so lenient to a known paedophile to them , which was way worse.
I'd suggest the employer is holding themselves to a higher standard now following previous events and it is almost guaranteed he's in breach of contract. If not, he has the right to challenge it via employment law.
It's a weird world today, where if you brush too close to someone they can accuse you of unwanted attention but you can free of charge see all kinds of debauchery online that is legal.
You say a weird world, I say a normal world. I have managed to get 55+ years on this earth without having done that.
And then this bloke sends a top less picture of himself which is weird and wrong but people saying it's serious when the man has been an idiot, but from my experience it's not sackable
See above - contractual
From personal experience working for a small charity, the chief went with two of the staff, they got away with everything and wages were increased, the structure was all wrong and none of us could complain and we all needed our jobs so we all said nothing and he got away with everything
Whistleblowing legislation was brought in for this purpose.
This is nowhere near the same level. But I have been told off for trivialising it. But am speaking from personal experience of things a lot worse and all I highlighted was the BBC so lenient on Huw Edwards and paying him shed loads, whilst making Jenas a convenient scapegoat for the crap decisions in their past.
As above - contract and higher standard
Nowhere did I say I agreed with what he did. Just saying they could have dealt with this in a much fairer way.
If he has harassed someone and is in breach of his contract, why is it unfair?
But it's all turned out OK because Jenas won't be the successor to Lineker on MOTD...
Agreed
Probably now be someone squeaky clean. Joey Barton, he has quite a clean record and is a fine upstanding individual so I am led to believe !!! 😂
Irony
This is ridiculous though that it's front page news. Storm in a tea cup is the phrase.
It will be forgotten by the general public soon enough. It might even be acknowledged and forgotten by Jenas should he keep his family and another job. When will the victims of harassment forget it?
But these days everything is magnified way beyond what it should be.
Behaviour like this SHOULD be magnified and shown to be unacceptable.
The world today is completely mad !!!!
Or sane.
Common sense and reality are rarely in evidence. Everything is a MAJOR issue.
Things which have an impact on the personal live of abused women SHOULD be major.
The mobile phone generation is one that's removing the ability to be human....
The mobile phone has just publicised the behaviour which has been around for centuries and men (because it is) don't like being held up to new standards.
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Are you in a long term relationship E17...
Just saying and also, your views seem to say all men are potential sex pests but absolutely no announcements that just as often, some women can be so also.
"Girls bodies aren't responsible for boys thoughts."
Crikey. That comment. The percentage of men that are rapists is obviously very low. Yes men fancy women and all types but crikey this comment alone, is amazingly harsh on 99% of men.
Am saying Jenas has been an idiot but it's a couple of texts. Was trying to compare it to a boss of mine who slept with two colleagues and promoted both and nothing was done. The structure of the charity was such that there was no one to whistle blow too and as said we all needed our jobs. Yes i know about whistleblowing but very often this is not possible in reality for a wide variety of reasons in certain circumstances. I highlighted this after to the CQC and decisions were made then but this was couple of years after I left. It was not possible for us to do this when we were there, ie vulnerability to losing our employment. But the women that slept with him weren't mother Theresa themselves. They both knew what they were doing and as said both got handsome pay rises. Women behave badly at times also.
Jenas has been arrogant but he has paid the price but again was comparing to Huw Edwards who wasn't replaced immediately for far far worse. His behaviour clearly morally wrong ie he is a married man but wasn't condoning it, just compare and contrast with Huw Edwards. The BBC hasn't suddenly decided to become morally correct and if you believe that to be the case, well, cant really comment on that. They made an example of Jenas because they have messed up big time over and over again, in cases far more serious than this.
Some kind of reality needs to be brought in here.
"Girls bodies are not responsible for boys thoughts."
Err men fancy women, that's how the world has been since the year dot. However 99% of men are decent and are far from potential rapists. And also, women fancy men, men fancy men and women fancy women.
Anyhow E17 am slightly concerned and hope you are well, as that's quite an extreme worry about men. I have no need to carry this on further but wish you well. [Post edited 27 Aug 4:33]
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| Jermaine jenas on 09:23 - Aug 27 with 1981 views | E17hoop |
FWIW I've been married for 30+ years although I have no idea why this matters in respect of this thread.
Of course it's not all men, and it's not even a majority, but that's not the point.
The point is that almost one in two women have experienced sexual harassment in their lifetimes and that's because the behaviour is normalised and accepted.
And boys are responsible for their thoughts. If you cede responsibility to women, then women become both the victims and causes of men's behaviour. |  |
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| Jermaine jenas on 09:50 - Aug 27 with 1898 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Jermaine jenas on 03:58 - Aug 27 by numptydumpty |
Are you in a long term relationship E17...
Just saying and also, your views seem to say all men are potential sex pests but absolutely no announcements that just as often, some women can be so also.
"Girls bodies aren't responsible for boys thoughts."
Crikey. That comment. The percentage of men that are rapists is obviously very low. Yes men fancy women and all types but crikey this comment alone, is amazingly harsh on 99% of men.
Am saying Jenas has been an idiot but it's a couple of texts. Was trying to compare it to a boss of mine who slept with two colleagues and promoted both and nothing was done. The structure of the charity was such that there was no one to whistle blow too and as said we all needed our jobs. Yes i know about whistleblowing but very often this is not possible in reality for a wide variety of reasons in certain circumstances. I highlighted this after to the CQC and decisions were made then but this was couple of years after I left. It was not possible for us to do this when we were there, ie vulnerability to losing our employment. But the women that slept with him weren't mother Theresa themselves. They both knew what they were doing and as said both got handsome pay rises. Women behave badly at times also.
Jenas has been arrogant but he has paid the price but again was comparing to Huw Edwards who wasn't replaced immediately for far far worse. His behaviour clearly morally wrong ie he is a married man but wasn't condoning it, just compare and contrast with Huw Edwards. The BBC hasn't suddenly decided to become morally correct and if you believe that to be the case, well, cant really comment on that. They made an example of Jenas because they have messed up big time over and over again, in cases far more serious than this.
Some kind of reality needs to be brought in here.
"Girls bodies are not responsible for boys thoughts."
Err men fancy women, that's how the world has been since the year dot. However 99% of men are decent and are far from potential rapists. And also, women fancy men, men fancy men and women fancy women.
Anyhow E17 am slightly concerned and hope you are well, as that's quite an extreme worry about men. I have no need to carry this on further but wish you well. [Post edited 27 Aug 4:33]
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"Girls bodies aren't responsible for boys thoughts." I don't believe that this is to be taken literarily and is more a solipsistic statement. It is concomitant with another saying "Don't teach your daughters to be scared, teach your sons not to be rapey". Both are sweeping generalisations and don't apply in the vast majority of cases.
Modern society has demonstrated that male on male, female on male and female on female rape exist and whilst it may not be proliferate, it is still life changing and traumatic for the victim in each and every case. The wording used in the catchphrases are meant to be snappy and short deliberately and encompass more than the actual words used.
A common discussion on this topic often leads to the rhetorical question "How would you feel if it was your child that was raped?" It is rarely asked "What if your child is a rapist?" I haven't gone into a deep dive on numbers but but the amount of rapes that go unreported is, for obvious reasons, not held in the statistics but even the amount of those that are reported and don't go to trial is a disgrace and evidence that rape victims are an area much in need of support and counselling. There will always be those victims who have lied for whatever reasons but that shouldn't stop every case being investigated on it's own merits. Perhaps a judicial system based on a meritocracy would improve the way we deal with crime but I am not holding my breath.
IMO Jenas did wrong by using his position to make someone distressed and uncomfortable by his actions, which I believe have not been fully disclosed as yet, and his actions should be judged on their merit, not on a sliding scale compared to someone more heinous. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Jermaine jenas on 11:52 - Aug 27 with 1720 views | kensalriser |
| Jermaine jenas on 03:58 - Aug 27 by numptydumpty |
Are you in a long term relationship E17...
Just saying and also, your views seem to say all men are potential sex pests but absolutely no announcements that just as often, some women can be so also.
"Girls bodies aren't responsible for boys thoughts."
Crikey. That comment. The percentage of men that are rapists is obviously very low. Yes men fancy women and all types but crikey this comment alone, is amazingly harsh on 99% of men.
Am saying Jenas has been an idiot but it's a couple of texts. Was trying to compare it to a boss of mine who slept with two colleagues and promoted both and nothing was done. The structure of the charity was such that there was no one to whistle blow too and as said we all needed our jobs. Yes i know about whistleblowing but very often this is not possible in reality for a wide variety of reasons in certain circumstances. I highlighted this after to the CQC and decisions were made then but this was couple of years after I left. It was not possible for us to do this when we were there, ie vulnerability to losing our employment. But the women that slept with him weren't mother Theresa themselves. They both knew what they were doing and as said both got handsome pay rises. Women behave badly at times also.
Jenas has been arrogant but he has paid the price but again was comparing to Huw Edwards who wasn't replaced immediately for far far worse. His behaviour clearly morally wrong ie he is a married man but wasn't condoning it, just compare and contrast with Huw Edwards. The BBC hasn't suddenly decided to become morally correct and if you believe that to be the case, well, cant really comment on that. They made an example of Jenas because they have messed up big time over and over again, in cases far more serious than this.
Some kind of reality needs to be brought in here.
"Girls bodies are not responsible for boys thoughts."
Err men fancy women, that's how the world has been since the year dot. However 99% of men are decent and are far from potential rapists. And also, women fancy men, men fancy men and women fancy women.
Anyhow E17 am slightly concerned and hope you are well, as that's quite an extreme worry about men. I have no need to carry this on further but wish you well. [Post edited 27 Aug 4:33]
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You really are clueless about this. The anecdote from your own workplace is irrelevant.
Maybe instead of producing another 500 word essay demonstrating your lack of comprehension you should talk less and listen more. |  |
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| Jermaine jenas on 13:50 - Aug 27 with 1565 views | numptydumpty |
| Jermaine jenas on 11:52 - Aug 27 by kensalriser |
You really are clueless about this. The anecdote from your own workplace is irrelevant.
Maybe instead of producing another 500 word essay demonstrating your lack of comprehension you should talk less and listen more. |
That's really extremely unkind
Worked in mental health, autism and learning disabled charities.
My point has never been to minimalise situations in anyway. My own partner was raped many years ago, few years before we were together.
And obviously I am incredibly supportive. You have read my words incorrectly but I can't have what you have said to me.
I can't help being wordy though. It's an issue I have as many years ago, used to write various types of fiction and non fiction. Old habits die hard.
I won't post anymore on such threads for fear of unkind abuse which you have just achieved kensalriser which is not nice by yourself.
It's not worth myself commenting anymore [Post edited 27 Aug 14:05]
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| Jermaine jenas on 15:38 - Aug 27 with 1255 views | numptydumpty |
| Jermaine jenas on 14:23 - Aug 27 by Superhoops2808 |
Oh well never mind
In your very own words maybe someone can have 'A quiet talking to with Kensal Riser, and everything can get back to normal' - Surely you would agree with that  |
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| Jermaine jenas on 15:53 - Aug 27 with 1188 views | johncharles |
We would all be in a better position to judge if we knew what he had actually done.
Just saying like |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Jermaine jenas on 17:01 - Aug 27 with 1059 views | nix |
I experienced tons of low level harassment as a young woman in various offices. I wasn’t even that good looking, so god knows what it was like for the gorgeous ones.
I must admit I was never raped but did experience groping.
My then boss getting out a copy of the Sun and comparing my boobs to the page three girls was pretty much as demeaning as the groping.
I was lucky there was no SM or dick picks as I fear it would have been much, much worse.
I thought offices had stopped this kind of shit and would be much more pleasant environments for young women as a result.
This guy is in a senior role, is not some young kid and is surely knowledgeable enough to know you don’t send shirtless pix to female colleagues.
As for the lesbian angle I have never been groped or made to feel uncomfortable by any woman ever. Maybe it happens but the upwards of ten-20 times men have done it it seems less prevalent.
Most men I know are absolutely lovely and I don’t think any of you who wouldn’t dream of doing this think that you’re tarred with the same brush. I’ve got two sons myself who aren’t remotely creepy. But the argument that x isn’t as bad as y winds me up tbh. It’s just so easy not to send compromising photos really isn’t it or grope your colleagues.
I’ve managed to have several relationships with colleagues in my youth after all so it’s possible to have consensual relationships without this kind of stuff as a preamble! |  | | |
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