| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:30 - Nov 28 with 4394 views | TalkingSutty |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:02 - Nov 28 by rochedale |
He’s overseen us losing our league position!! Jesus, as if you are blaming him for that. I am a shareholder, but have done nowhere near the amount the current board have. People need to trust them or step up and put your money where your mouth is. If they are bound by NDA’s, that should be respected. You can just imagine them giving details of potential investors, then the deal falling through and those same people who are moaning about being kept in the dark would moan about the NDA being compromised! They just can’t win with a number of people on here. |
You're obviously not reading my posts, at no point have I said that I don't trust the Chairman. I'm fully aware that NDAs need to be adhered to and the Chairman is unable to communicate on that aspect of the club. My point regarding the lack of communication with the fan base relates to his overall tenure...and I'm far from being the only one to flag this up on this forum, it's been a constant theme so don't act all surprised. Even the Trust trying to arrange meetings with him has been like drawing hens teeth at times, or it appears that way. He did oversee us losing our league status and was responsible for managerial and playing budget decisions during that period. Unfortunately the Chairman at every club cops it when that happens so of course some fans will aim criticism his way. We all know we have a minority of idiots who confuse criticism with vile abuse, best to ignore them. Contrary to what you are suggesting, just because people put money into football clubs doesn't mean you have to trust them, you can't buy trust. You can only cross your fingers and hope. At bury they trusted Stewart Day because he put money into the Club and looked what happened. There are loads of other examples also. Simon Gauge and the Directors will always be remembered for stepping up to the plate and buying back the MH shares. It was a fantastic gesture and that will still be their legacy. If a takeover happens then they can all leave with their heads held high. I don't think any of them ever had any ambitions to get involved in the boardroom anyway, they did it to help the club. [Post edited 28 Nov 2023 10:41]
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:39 - Nov 28 with 4347 views | judd |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:26 - Nov 28 by mikehunt |
I meant how parlous a state the club’s finances were in and exactly how we got into that position. It all seemed to come out of the blue. I, niaively I suppose, assumed that, after fighting off the hostile take over, everything would be hunky-dory. |
I think the club has always been in a parlous state financially, and the board advised that, without cup runs and / or player sales, we generally lost £1m per year.
The club hoped to make this shortfall up via share sales, which were successful in year 1 which then led to the vexatious litigation from MH, leading to the board having to buy shares back.
The next share issue was an underwhelming taken up, such that the chairman announced a search for investors, and more recently, a plan to loan £350k against the stadium, since disallowed by NL rules.
On Thursday the Trust met the directors and issued minutes over the weekend. They are not a verbatim account of the 1 hour 45 minutes, but include al the salient points.
One of the lengthier topics discussed was implementing the MOU/updated MOU and what the Trust main board director can disclose to the rest of the Trust board, which currently is next to nothing. A concession was agreed initially, with further consultation on the nature of confidentiality, but the Trust agreed to look at the recommendations of the fan-led review referenced in the recent King's Speech in relation to fan engagement.
Here is an extract from the review in relation to fan-elected directors (FED):
"However, support for FEDs as a concept has been mixed amongst the supporter groups who gave evidence to the Review. There has also been evidence received from current or former FEDs that it can be an extremely stressful position, with the director caught between fans and the club. A FED will also have fiduciary responsibilities and confidentiality clauses which mean a fan director rarely delivers on fan expectations."
That very last sentence is where we are, in my opinion, and the Trust has attempted to address this recently.
I hope this answers the points you have raised. |  |
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:41 - Nov 28 with 4323 views | rochedale |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:30 - Nov 28 by TalkingSutty |
You're obviously not reading my posts, at no point have I said that I don't trust the Chairman. I'm fully aware that NDAs need to be adhered to and the Chairman is unable to communicate on that aspect of the club. My point regarding the lack of communication with the fan base relates to his overall tenure...and I'm far from being the only one to flag this up on this forum, it's been a constant theme so don't act all surprised. Even the Trust trying to arrange meetings with him has been like drawing hens teeth at times, or it appears that way. He did oversee us losing our league status and was responsible for managerial and playing budget decisions during that period. Unfortunately the Chairman at every club cops it when that happens so of course some fans will aim criticism his way. We all know we have a minority of idiots who confuse criticism with vile abuse, best to ignore them. Contrary to what you are suggesting, just because people put money into football clubs doesn't mean you have to trust them, you can't buy trust. You can only cross your fingers and hope. At bury they trusted Stewart Day because he put money into the Club and looked what happened. There are loads of other examples also. Simon Gauge and the Directors will always be remembered for stepping up to the plate and buying back the MH shares. It was a fantastic gesture and that will still be their legacy. If a takeover happens then they can all leave with their heads held high. I don't think any of them ever had any ambitions to get involved in the boardroom anyway, they did it to help the club. [Post edited 28 Nov 2023 10:41]
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But surely you can see he’s trying his best to get us out of this situation, it’s clearly unfair to compare with Stuart Day who, it was clear to see, was all about his ego, he even challenged all other chairmen to a kick up competition. I am reading your posts, just because he doesn’t respond to every request or take you up on your offers of help doesn’t mean he’s got ulterior motives and it doesn’t suggest he’s doing a poor job. He didn’t need to come in to this club, neither did the others, and I reckon we wouldn’t have a club right now without them, yet you and other still give him a hard time because he won’t listen to your advice or whatever it is you’re complaining about this week. I bet he thinks you’re an absolute pain in the arse tbh! |  |
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:05 - Nov 28 with 4213 views | TalkingSutty |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:41 - Nov 28 by rochedale |
But surely you can see he’s trying his best to get us out of this situation, it’s clearly unfair to compare with Stuart Day who, it was clear to see, was all about his ego, he even challenged all other chairmen to a kick up competition. I am reading your posts, just because he doesn’t respond to every request or take you up on your offers of help doesn’t mean he’s got ulterior motives and it doesn’t suggest he’s doing a poor job. He didn’t need to come in to this club, neither did the others, and I reckon we wouldn’t have a club right now without them, yet you and other still give him a hard time because he won’t listen to your advice or whatever it is you’re complaining about this week. I bet he thinks you’re an absolute pain in the arse tbh! |
I'm not bothered what Simon Gauge or anybody else thinks of me to be honest. At no point in my post did I compare Gauge with Day and you know that. I'm not referring to any offers of help from me personally but there are plenty of people who post on here who are aware of individuals who have been disrespected by the Chairman or totally ignored. I've never suggested he has ulterior motives. Do i think he's done a good job of running the club and continuing the solidarity we all had when he took over the reigns? No i don't , there's now a massive disconnect which needs repairing and we have lost our League status. He's done his best I think but appears to disregard the views of everybody, refuses help and sets his own course. As a figure head of a football club you need good communication skills and I think it's been proven that he's lacking in that department. You obviously think differently. | | | |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:11 - Nov 28 with 4173 views | D_Alien |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:30 - Nov 28 by TalkingSutty |
You're obviously not reading my posts, at no point have I said that I don't trust the Chairman. I'm fully aware that NDAs need to be adhered to and the Chairman is unable to communicate on that aspect of the club. My point regarding the lack of communication with the fan base relates to his overall tenure...and I'm far from being the only one to flag this up on this forum, it's been a constant theme so don't act all surprised. Even the Trust trying to arrange meetings with him has been like drawing hens teeth at times, or it appears that way. He did oversee us losing our league status and was responsible for managerial and playing budget decisions during that period. Unfortunately the Chairman at every club cops it when that happens so of course some fans will aim criticism his way. We all know we have a minority of idiots who confuse criticism with vile abuse, best to ignore them. Contrary to what you are suggesting, just because people put money into football clubs doesn't mean you have to trust them, you can't buy trust. You can only cross your fingers and hope. At bury they trusted Stewart Day because he put money into the Club and looked what happened. There are loads of other examples also. Simon Gauge and the Directors will always be remembered for stepping up to the plate and buying back the MH shares. It was a fantastic gesture and that will still be their legacy. If a takeover happens then they can all leave with their heads held high. I don't think any of them ever had any ambitions to get involved in the boardroom anyway, they did it to help the club. [Post edited 28 Nov 2023 10:41]
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That's exactly right
It's also exactly right that unless we had a fanbase who refused to listen to the club hangers-on and sycophants, Bottomley would've got away with his abhorrent behaviour
Keep going TS, Dale need you far more than those who appear out of the woodwork whilst doing f. all when it really matters
Hope the distribution of flyers is going well [Post edited 28 Nov 2023 11:13]
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:12 - Nov 28 with 4167 views | rochedale |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:05 - Nov 28 by TalkingSutty |
I'm not bothered what Simon Gauge or anybody else thinks of me to be honest. At no point in my post did I compare Gauge with Day and you know that. I'm not referring to any offers of help from me personally but there are plenty of people who post on here who are aware of individuals who have been disrespected by the Chairman or totally ignored. I've never suggested he has ulterior motives. Do i think he's done a good job of running the club and continuing the solidarity we all had when he took over the reigns? No i don't , there's now a massive disconnect which needs repairing and we have lost our League status. He's done his best I think but appears to disregard the views of everybody, refuses help and sets his own course. As a figure head of a football club you need good communication skills and I think it's been proven that he's lacking in that department. You obviously think differently. |
“At bury they trusted Stewart Day because he put money into the Club and looked what happened. There are loads of other examples also.” That is you comparing him to Stewart Day. With regards the rest of it, it’s the same old moaning rubbish you’ve been posting for years. We could be about to play in the final of the champions league and you’d still find room to complain about something.
To reiterate, he’s done more than you and I and most others on this board to keep the club alive. We should respect that and be thankful rather than criticise because he won’t allow us to deliver leaflets to promote a £1 entry match! | |
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:32 - Nov 28 with 4085 views | samueloneils |
This business of being a fan-owned club.
All this info is available at Companies House.
The 6 directors own 35% of the club, each having bought a minimum of 30,000 shares each in the previous 12 months adding to their original holdings( Simon Gauge double that ) plus Andrew Kelly also 30,000.
Messrs Kelly, Morris and other family members own some 18%.
The Trust owns 13% of the shares.
That leaves the remaining 38% of the shares in the hands of "small" shareholders-those with less than 5,000 shares, including myself and I imagine many on this forum.
This is a lot healthier sharebase than before where a bunch of unscrupulous individuals who only owned 15% of the shares sold out together with the Americans and others to a rogue investor and nearly finished off the club IMO.
The directors, having paid out shedloads of money, are now hopefully on the brink of securing a deal. This what they are paid to do. Oh I forgot- they do not receive a bean for all their time and efforts.
If anyone has been involved in buying or selling a company- Rochdale AFC is a limited company- they will know that the last thing you do is allow information regarding the deal to leak out until it is agreed. This is to protect both parties from hostile or thoughtless interference. You will remember how the club was full of leaks during the Kilpatrick and Bottomley time, and earlier as well. This affair re the payroll timing smacks of mischief to me from someone with no affiliation to the club.
It`s taken a long time to get to this stage, and I`m sure the directors will be the first to agree- too long.
Up the Dale |  | | |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:44 - Nov 28 with 4028 views | TalkingSutty |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:11 - Nov 28 by D_Alien |
That's exactly right
It's also exactly right that unless we had a fanbase who refused to listen to the club hangers-on and sycophants, Bottomley would've got away with his abhorrent behaviour
Keep going TS, Dale need you far more than those who appear out of the woodwork whilst doing f. all when it really matters
Hope the distribution of flyers is going well [Post edited 28 Nov 2023 11:13]
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Thanks.Just popping out, incorporating distributing flyers with a good long walk. I have the time fortunately, unlike many others who have busy life's to juggle. | | | |
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:46 - Nov 28 with 4006 views | TalkingSutty |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:12 - Nov 28 by rochedale |
“At bury they trusted Stewart Day because he put money into the Club and looked what happened. There are loads of other examples also.” That is you comparing him to Stewart Day. With regards the rest of it, it’s the same old moaning rubbish you’ve been posting for years. We could be about to play in the final of the champions league and you’d still find room to complain about something.
To reiterate, he’s done more than you and I and most others on this board to keep the club alive. We should respect that and be thankful rather than criticise because he won’t allow us to deliver leaflets to promote a £1 entry match! |
Correct, i don't trust anybody who I don't know personally, that's normal isn't it? Creeping isn't a good trait, you stick out like a sore thumb🤣 | | | |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:55 - Nov 28 with 3952 views | mikehunt |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 10:39 - Nov 28 by judd |
I think the club has always been in a parlous state financially, and the board advised that, without cup runs and / or player sales, we generally lost £1m per year.
The club hoped to make this shortfall up via share sales, which were successful in year 1 which then led to the vexatious litigation from MH, leading to the board having to buy shares back.
The next share issue was an underwhelming taken up, such that the chairman announced a search for investors, and more recently, a plan to loan £350k against the stadium, since disallowed by NL rules.
On Thursday the Trust met the directors and issued minutes over the weekend. They are not a verbatim account of the 1 hour 45 minutes, but include al the salient points.
One of the lengthier topics discussed was implementing the MOU/updated MOU and what the Trust main board director can disclose to the rest of the Trust board, which currently is next to nothing. A concession was agreed initially, with further consultation on the nature of confidentiality, but the Trust agreed to look at the recommendations of the fan-led review referenced in the recent King's Speech in relation to fan engagement.
Here is an extract from the review in relation to fan-elected directors (FED):
"However, support for FEDs as a concept has been mixed amongst the supporter groups who gave evidence to the Review. There has also been evidence received from current or former FEDs that it can be an extremely stressful position, with the director caught between fans and the club. A FED will also have fiduciary responsibilities and confidentiality clauses which mean a fan director rarely delivers on fan expectations."
That very last sentence is where we are, in my opinion, and the Trust has attempted to address this recently.
I hope this answers the points you have raised. |
Thanks Judd. Yes it does. Just one other thing: how would I have got this information otherwise? Am I missing something? |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 12:04 - Nov 28 with 3877 views | judd |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 11:55 - Nov 28 by mikehunt |
Thanks Judd. Yes it does. Just one other thing: how would I have got this information otherwise? Am I missing something? |
It's all in the public domain.
I think the £1m loss per season came from the AGM last year when the P&L was presented with historical cup runs/player sale stripped out, and from the AGM this made its' way onto here.
The MH litigation and resolution was made public by the club and Trust.
The announcement of shares for sale then the search for investment because the share offer had not been taken up sufficiently came from the club and has seen much debate since.
The directors loan was subject to an EGM and the result made public, and the NL refusal to allow secured loans was published in an answer to a question sent to the club by the Trust in late October. | |
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 12:38 - Nov 28 with 3710 views | DaleFan7 |
A new company was incorporated today at the COA for 'activities of sports club' which may or may not be related to the 'investment is close' part.
Just seen the separate thread. [Post edited 28 Nov 2023 12:39]
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| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 22:46 - Dec 15 with 2098 views | EllDale |
I read this week that the League of Wales have deducted Pontypridd Utd 131 points for 18 misdemeanours. | | | |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 23:24 - Dec 15 with 2025 views | D_Alien |
| Peter O'Rourke Quote.. on 22:46 - Dec 15 by EllDale |
I read this week that the League of Wales have deducted Pontypridd Utd 131 points for 18 misdemeanours. |
It's 141 pts, but 135 are suspended
Still a bit silly... | |
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