| Released/Retained list on 09:23 - May 12 with 1745 views | TheChef |
I don't have any issue with getting Martin in on some form of cheap deal, pay as you play, but definitely no more than one year. And as an option off the bench at most, not starting matches unless we really have no choice due to injuries.
My hope is that we go back to the 4231 formation with Dykes up top (assuming he's still here). Suppose it all depends on the personnel we have available come August. |  |
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| Released/Retained list on 09:31 - May 12 with 1698 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 09:19 - May 12 by Northernr |
No. |
I have to say, you surprise me with that response. You laid out a prefect rationale for why I would want to have someone who's been there done that and worn the t-shirt several times working alongside a raw talent everyday, and then you choose to dismiss the idea completely out of hand in the very next breath.
One of the posters on here (I forget who) laid out some sound reasoning why you might not get LF doing that in training, basically saying it might actually be cheaper to have Martin working with Armstrong everyday. That coupled with a leadership role in general would surely make sense, would it not? |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:35 - May 12 with 1671 views | ted_hendrix |
| Released/Retained list on 08:26 - May 12 by Gloucs_R |
I personally believe he needs a season in League 1 or league 2 where he's starting every single game and scoring goals. You've already highlighted in what you've just posted that he clearly isn't ready for the championship yet although has potential.
I would offer him another 3-year deal with the first 12 months out on loan. |
He's had a loan spells at Torquay and Aldershot, he's very fast and scares defenders but that's all.
If we're talking about keeping and playing an injury prone but very fast player for next season then with Dykes, Martin and the very fast Armstrong up front we're In a worse position re scoring goals than I thought we were. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Released/Retained list on 09:40 - May 12 with 1642 views | Northernr |
| Released/Retained list on 09:31 - May 12 by E15Hoop |
I have to say, you surprise me with that response. You laid out a prefect rationale for why I would want to have someone who's been there done that and worn the t-shirt several times working alongside a raw talent everyday, and then you choose to dismiss the idea completely out of hand in the very next breath.
One of the posters on here (I forget who) laid out some sound reasoning why you might not get LF doing that in training, basically saying it might actually be cheaper to have Martin working with Armstrong everyday. That coupled with a leadership role in general would surely make sense, would it not? |
He. Cannot. Move. About.
You should not commit budget we don't have to a 34-year-old that was effectively retired in January, who is now at best capable of being an impact sub in the last ten minutes of game, just to tell Sinclair Armstrong where to stand.
We need leadership, we need a spine, we need a base, and all of these 'culture guardians' Dobson talks about, I agree. But we have zero money to spend, an entire squad to rebuild, desperately need to add pace, and we've just come off a season where you see what problems are caused when large chunks of your squad are unavailable. We need players capable of doing 40+ games at the heart of the team. |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:40 - May 12 with 1635 views | daveB |
| Released/Retained list on 08:55 - May 12 by TheChef |
Re Kelman he had minimal returns in League 2 despite plenty of game time, so I'd be amazed if he suddenly becomes Championship quality. Very happy to be proved wrong! |
I can see why they've kept him and is worth looking at next season but if we loan him out again that will be ridiculous |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:44 - May 12 with 1612 views | Gloucs_R |
| Released/Retained list on 08:28 - May 12 by Northernr |
I don't necessarily disagree mate but I'm not sure we have that luxury, he's going to need to be involved. |
Let's hope that him or Kelman come of age next season then.....
I suspect the forward line next year could be made up of these choices....
Martin
Kelman
Sinclair
Richards (I know he's more of a number 10)
New striker
New striker loan, if this does happen then I can see one of the youngsters being sent out on loan.
I agree with you that dykes will be sold as he's only got a year left of his contract.
😬😬😬😬😯😬😬😬😬 |  |
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| Released/Retained list on 09:46 - May 12 with 1602 views | Rangersw12 |
| Released/Retained list on 09:31 - May 12 by E15Hoop |
I have to say, you surprise me with that response. You laid out a prefect rationale for why I would want to have someone who's been there done that and worn the t-shirt several times working alongside a raw talent everyday, and then you choose to dismiss the idea completely out of hand in the very next breath.
One of the posters on here (I forget who) laid out some sound reasoning why you might not get LF doing that in training, basically saying it might actually be cheaper to have Martin working with Armstrong everyday. That coupled with a leadership role in general would surely make sense, would it not? |
Martin is past it, immobile and was more or less retired. Yes he scored a couple of goals but he was also woeful in 75% of the games he played
We should not be spending some of our small budget on him just because he's a good pro and the manager likes him.
BTW we have coaches who should be telling Armstrong where to stand at corners ffs not paying a player to do that.
No other Championship club would be signing Martin but then no other Championship club would have GA as their manager | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:49 - May 12 with 1578 views | dmm |
| Released/Retained list on 09:40 - May 12 by daveB |
I can see why they've kept him and is worth looking at next season but if we loan him out again that will be ridiculous |
My hope is Orient are interested in signing him permanently and, by extending his contract, we hope to get a fee. Not very likely I admit.
Otherwise, the club must still believe he can improve. He's 21 and still young-ish so maybe so, but he's going to have to step up a level next season. |  | | |
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| Released/Retained list on 09:52 - May 12 with 1540 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Released/Retained list on 09:00 - May 12 by E15Hoop |
And don't all those things give you some sense as to why GA wants Chris Martin on board as well? You mentioned specifically how Martin was directing Armstrong positionally as the corner came in for the second goal against Burnley for example. |
Is it not quite worrying that they train all week and a striker doesn’t know what to do when we have a corner? | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:53 - May 12 with 1513 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Released/Retained list on 09:40 - May 12 by daveB |
I can see why they've kept him and is worth looking at next season but if we loan him out again that will be ridiculous |
Unfortunately, that's the model - see Masterson and Shodipo. Repeatedly loan players out to League 1/2 clubs for several years, then release them for nothing. It's certainly a novel approach. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:53 - May 12 with 1518 views | daveB |
| Released/Retained list on 09:49 - May 12 by dmm |
My hope is Orient are interested in signing him permanently and, by extending his contract, we hope to get a fee. Not very likely I admit.
Otherwise, the club must still believe he can improve. He's 21 and still young-ish so maybe so, but he's going to have to step up a level next season. |
Yeah there will be that doubt if they release him now and he gets a move to league one and does well we look stupid so give him one more year and see how it goes. Mad that hes been here 3 years and we've just not even looked at him in the first team bar a few cup games. The clubs idea of development seems to be send them somewhere else | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:55 - May 12 with 1504 views | terryb |
| Released/Retained list on 16:51 - May 11 by PinnerPaul |
Yep and many have forgotten how important his goals were#.
Even Clive grudgingly said he did the job he was bought for - not true of many others! |
Paul, I think E15 was on about Richards & not Martin. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:00 - May 12 with 1466 views | EastR |
| Released/Retained list on 09:35 - May 12 by ted_hendrix |
He's had a loan spells at Torquay and Aldershot, he's very fast and scares defenders but that's all.
If we're talking about keeping and playing an injury prone but very fast player for next season then with Dykes, Martin and the very fast Armstrong up front we're In a worse position re scoring goals than I thought we were. |
he's very fast and scares defenders
He should come into his own around Halloween, Ted | |
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| Released/Retained list on 10:02 - May 12 with 1461 views | terryb |
| Released/Retained list on 17:32 - May 11 by Northernr |
Is that true - I've never heard that one before... |
We did this with Angel Rangel.
I thought it was a thank you gesture from the club at the time, but this may be the reason. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:07 - May 12 with 1430 views | Monkey_Roots |
| Released/Retained list on 09:23 - May 12 by E15Hoop |
I am in no way an apologist for the Board's previous mistakes, although ny personal feeling is that the Tango and Cash administration are more to blame for introducing and embedding the culture of hubris that only continued in the early days of the current administration pre the DOF appointment. My personal take on it is that the reasoning behind the GA appointment is that someone, be it Amit, Sir Les, Lee Hoos, or more likely a combination of all 3 have finally accepted that the Premier League is a distant pipe dream, and that effectively we're back to where we were 4 or 5 years ago under Ollie.
GA and RD in that context - and this has been my whole point - are actually sound, pragmatic appointments that have a personal interest in making sure that the club is sustainable in the long-term, whilst doing their best to put a playing staff together on a shoestring budget that has as long a potential shelf-life as possible, and where we have a chance of developing assets that might get sold on for a profit in a couple of years' time.
The recent Open All R's episode with the Richard Dobson interview proved emphatically that the philosophy will be to aim to produce rounded footballers who can be successful at this level and hopefully the one above.
In this context GA's request for an expectations reset makes perfect sense - I don't know whether that was to us, the Board or, most likely, both.
In contast to what many posters oin this Forum seem to think I'm saying, I 100% agree with Clive's point that you've actually got to build a new foundation before you can move forwards, but I don't agree with the widely held belief on this forum that in order to do that, you have to chuck all the current bricks away. I trust RD in particular to identify who can be entrusted with embracing a new direction in all senses of the word, and assisting GA to implement it, which will then, in theory at least, establish a blueprint to be followed throughout the club at all levels. |
I think the disconnect comes about when the talk doesn't quite marry up with what's actually happening, and that comes from every angle.
RD spoke beautifully about his aspirations long-term and his passion for the club is apparent... but for all the talk, will he actually be able to execute it? His plan for Bristol City sounded great, but in reality, wasn't.
GA talks about his plans and aspirations, the types of players he wants at the club - and we think, yes please! More pace up front? Brilliant. Enter Chris Martin. Oh.
Les and Lee outline a strategy for the club, a way of playing, player development... again, we're nowhere near any of it.
I get that you are a positive person, you're trying to gee everyone up, ah salute - good for you.
But where's your evidence for this positivity? I too don't believe that there's a conspiracy, or that anyone is intentionally diddling the club, but I also believe that from top to bottom, nobody has shown anything that inspires me or gives me the confidence that they are even going to stick to a plan, let alone deliver it.
Lastly, and with respect, your timing's not great. We have just endured probably one of the worst seasons any of us can remember, we're allowed to be angry, disillusioned and negative. Once we see some changes — be that in management, strategy, players — we'll hopefully pick up a bit and start to come around to your way of thinking. For now though, crack on and be positive, but don't deride others for not feeling the same right now. |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:09 - May 12 with 1425 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 09:40 - May 12 by Northernr |
He. Cannot. Move. About.
You should not commit budget we don't have to a 34-year-old that was effectively retired in January, who is now at best capable of being an impact sub in the last ten minutes of game, just to tell Sinclair Armstrong where to stand.
We need leadership, we need a spine, we need a base, and all of these 'culture guardians' Dobson talks about, I agree. But we have zero money to spend, an entire squad to rebuild, desperately need to add pace, and we've just come off a season where you see what problems are caused when large chunks of your squad are unavailable. We need players capable of doing 40+ games at the heart of the team. |
I hear you with all of that, but they clearly feel that it makes sense for whatever reason, and if a management team that is used to working with an annual playing budget of £2.50 feels it make sense and adds value in some way to the bigger picture, then I for one am prepared to trust them with that. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:10 - May 12 with 1412 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 09:55 - May 12 by terryb |
Paul, I think E15 was on about Richards & not Martin. |
No PP's right - that part of the thread was about Martin. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:12 - May 12 with 1409 views | Monkey_Roots |
| Released/Retained list on 10:09 - May 12 by E15Hoop |
I hear you with all of that, but they clearly feel that it makes sense for whatever reason, and if a management team that is used to working with an annual playing budget of £2.50 feels it make sense and adds value in some way to the bigger picture, then I for one am prepared to trust them with that. |
I think thats a keyword right there - trust.
I honestly don't trust ANYONE at the moment to turn us around - owners, DOF, Finance, Management, players. Hopefully, over time I will get proved wrong, and that would be great. [Post edited 12 May 2023 10:12]
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| Released/Retained list on 10:13 - May 12 with 1400 views | terryb |
| Released/Retained list on 18:10 - May 11 by E15Hoop |
Exactly! And now they're working with a clearly talented lad quietly behind the scenes and tworking out how to best maximise this asset under a new set of circumstances.
I don't remember anyone passsing judgement on Sam Field when he was out for however long, the sseason before last or whenever it was - and now look at him. |
If, as i suspect, Richards problems are mental there is no reason to think that this will change. I would love him to recover & fulfil his potential, but doubt that he will be able to.
Field is a different matter as his problems were physical. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:14 - May 12 with 1388 views | ozexile |
| Released/Retained list on 10:12 - May 12 by Monkey_Roots |
I think thats a keyword right there - trust.
I honestly don't trust ANYONE at the moment to turn us around - owners, DOF, Finance, Management, players. Hopefully, over time I will get proved wrong, and that would be great. [Post edited 12 May 2023 10:12]
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I think I'm using up all my Trust on the Richards deal. Have nothing left for Martin or Duke McKenna. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:16 - May 12 with 1382 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 10:07 - May 12 by Monkey_Roots |
I think the disconnect comes about when the talk doesn't quite marry up with what's actually happening, and that comes from every angle.
RD spoke beautifully about his aspirations long-term and his passion for the club is apparent... but for all the talk, will he actually be able to execute it? His plan for Bristol City sounded great, but in reality, wasn't.
GA talks about his plans and aspirations, the types of players he wants at the club - and we think, yes please! More pace up front? Brilliant. Enter Chris Martin. Oh.
Les and Lee outline a strategy for the club, a way of playing, player development... again, we're nowhere near any of it.
I get that you are a positive person, you're trying to gee everyone up, ah salute - good for you.
But where's your evidence for this positivity? I too don't believe that there's a conspiracy, or that anyone is intentionally diddling the club, but I also believe that from top to bottom, nobody has shown anything that inspires me or gives me the confidence that they are even going to stick to a plan, let alone deliver it.
Lastly, and with respect, your timing's not great. We have just endured probably one of the worst seasons any of us can remember, we're allowed to be angry, disillusioned and negative. Once we see some changes — be that in management, strategy, players — we'll hopefully pick up a bit and start to come around to your way of thinking. For now though, crack on and be positive, but don't deride others for not feeling the same right now. |
I'm not looking to deride the alternative viewpoint. But when its being voiced so vehemently and with phrases that to me border on the slanderous in terms of doubting people's capability or desire in some cases to do the job they're employed to do, then I am certainly within my rights to speak up for them in the absence of them being able to do it for themselves, and I make no apology for doing that. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:21 - May 12 with 1365 views | terryb |
| Released/Retained list on 19:27 - May 11 by E15Hoop |
Thanks! I've found out who my friends are over these last couple of weeks, so it's nice to make a new one! |
That is not true.
You've found out which posters agree with you & those that don't. Personally, I'm in awe about your trust in the board & the management of our club. We would need to go back to the Jago/Sexton years when I could last do that! | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:28 - May 12 with 1331 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 10:21 - May 12 by terryb |
That is not true.
You've found out which posters agree with you & those that don't. Personally, I'm in awe about your trust in the board & the management of our club. We would need to go back to the Jago/Sexton years when I could last do that! |
No, Terry. Some of the posters who hold an alternative view to mine have done so graciously, politely and respectfully without compromising their viewpoint.
This makes it much more likely that I'm going to listen, evaluate and acknowledge what they have to say and respond accordingly.
Others, I have to say, have been bitchy, dismissive, rude and personal, and they have received a" f*ck you" response from me in return. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:39 - May 12 with 1302 views | terryb |
| Released/Retained list on 10:28 - May 12 by E15Hoop |
No, Terry. Some of the posters who hold an alternative view to mine have done so graciously, politely and respectfully without compromising their viewpoint.
This makes it much more likely that I'm going to listen, evaluate and acknowledge what they have to say and respond accordingly.
Others, I have to say, have been bitchy, dismissive, rude and personal, and they have received a" f*ck you" response from me in return. |
My apologies if you include me in those of the last paragraph. I've certainly never intended to be any of those.
The only time I came close to "exploding" was when you were trying to get me to read the Bucks Free Press. It was like asking me to click on The Sun!
My dislike of the town & especially the football club (Satan's ream) that is just off the M40 in South Bucks is well documented! | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 10:42 - May 12 with 1287 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 10:13 - May 12 by terryb |
If, as i suspect, Richards problems are mental there is no reason to think that this will change. I would love him to recover & fulfil his potential, but doubt that he will be able to.
Field is a different matter as his problems were physical. |
I don't agree with you on this, Terry - if that were true, than no-one would ever recover from trauma or depression.
The lad's 22. I know how something like's he's experienced would have affected me at that age, but if he's supported properly, there's no reason to believe he can't recover fully.
Is he getting that support? I have no idea, but I would trust the current management team to ensure that happens much more than certain previous ones. | | | |
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