| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich 13:02 - Feb 14 with 118955 views | loftboy |
Should the worst happen and the Russians invade, I suspect that many rich Russians in the UK will be part of the proposed sanctions, could this affect our foes down the road? |  |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 10:23 - Mar 7 with 2958 views | Juzzie |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 22:15 - Mar 6 by stowmarketrange |
How much longer will/can the world look on while putin kills innocent civilians? |
What can the world do beyond what it is doing already? It's so awful but the solution is not so straightforward.
People cry out for NATO to intervene but, at the moment, how can it? It's basic mandate is to support any of it's members who come under attack. So far that hasn't happened. It cannot go wading into other countries that are not NATO members, it's not the World's police.
The UN has probably got a bigger role to play at the moment than NATO .
Putin, I'm sure, wants NATO to 'get stuck in' so he can theatrically throw his hands in the air and with a look of faux-shock stare into the TV camera's with his mouth wide open proclaiming they have been unjustifiably attacked. IMO, that's exactly what he wants. He's goading the west to do that so it can play right into his hands.
As awful as it is, NATO cannot intervene and the includes no-fly zones in Ukraine, they cannot do that.
They can shore up their eastern borders with troops but that's it. |  | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 10:58 - Mar 7 with 2911 views | toboboly |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 10:23 - Mar 7 by Juzzie |
What can the world do beyond what it is doing already? It's so awful but the solution is not so straightforward.
People cry out for NATO to intervene but, at the moment, how can it? It's basic mandate is to support any of it's members who come under attack. So far that hasn't happened. It cannot go wading into other countries that are not NATO members, it's not the World's police.
The UN has probably got a bigger role to play at the moment than NATO .
Putin, I'm sure, wants NATO to 'get stuck in' so he can theatrically throw his hands in the air and with a look of faux-shock stare into the TV camera's with his mouth wide open proclaiming they have been unjustifiably attacked. IMO, that's exactly what he wants. He's goading the west to do that so it can play right into his hands.
As awful as it is, NATO cannot intervene and the includes no-fly zones in Ukraine, they cannot do that.
They can shore up their eastern borders with troops but that's it. |
Exactly, seems quite a bit of naivete out there. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 11:00 - Mar 7 with 2910 views | Juzzie |
Firstly, and mainly, it's just an opinion piece. It even says so in the headline.
Secondly, there are no links or citations to sources to back up anything it says. Just a whole load of opinons structured in a way to make it look plausible.
It still doesn't give a conclusion, it doesn't say what the end game is, what all this hopes to achieve. So, the whole world is brought to it's knees through controlled (sic) viruses and war.... then what? If the 'plan' is to "to dismantle the current system in favor of the elite", well, the elite is already favoured and has been for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Nothing new there.
It just tells people to read other books. | | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 11:05 - Mar 7 with 2897 views | toboboly |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 11:00 - Mar 7 by Juzzie |
Firstly, and mainly, it's just an opinion piece. It even says so in the headline.
Secondly, there are no links or citations to sources to back up anything it says. Just a whole load of opinons structured in a way to make it look plausible.
It still doesn't give a conclusion, it doesn't say what the end game is, what all this hopes to achieve. So, the whole world is brought to it's knees through controlled (sic) viruses and war.... then what? If the 'plan' is to "to dismantle the current system in favor of the elite", well, the elite is already favoured and has been for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Nothing new there.
It just tells people to read other books. |
Careful, don't engage with intelligent responses, we all know how the corona thread went | |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 12:17 - Mar 7 with 2740 views | kensalriser |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 11:00 - Mar 7 by Juzzie |
Firstly, and mainly, it's just an opinion piece. It even says so in the headline.
Secondly, there are no links or citations to sources to back up anything it says. Just a whole load of opinons structured in a way to make it look plausible.
It still doesn't give a conclusion, it doesn't say what the end game is, what all this hopes to achieve. So, the whole world is brought to it's knees through controlled (sic) viruses and war.... then what? If the 'plan' is to "to dismantle the current system in favor of the elite", well, the elite is already favoured and has been for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Nothing new there.
It just tells people to read other books. |
Just use the ignore button. You might just as well argue with Jehovah’s Witnesses. |  |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 13:18 - Mar 7 with 2611 views | charmr |
For a reflective perspective with some interesting guests check out the podcast
The Katie Halper show [Post edited 7 Mar 2022 13:28]
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:24 - Mar 7 with 2412 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
I think Putin did say that the Ukrainians have been brainwashed. |  |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:29 - Mar 7 with 2394 views | Sharpy36 |
Totally agree. We`re to believe Putin is a monster not only at home but on the world stage because our media tell us he is. This conflict has been very hard to get an understanding of whats happening as all media both here and in Russia has either been shut down or censured. |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:30 - Mar 7 with 2388 views | Northernr |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:29 - Mar 7 by Sharpy36 |
Totally agree. We`re to believe Putin is a monster not only at home but on the world stage because our media tell us he is. This conflict has been very hard to get an understanding of whats happening as all media both here and in Russia has either been shut down or censured. |
But you don't think Ukraine are bombing their own cities right? |  | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:37 - Mar 7 with 2357 views | Sharpy36 |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:30 - Mar 7 by Northernr |
But you don't think Ukraine are bombing their own cities right? |
No of course not, not sure where you got that from?
When Boris visited the Ukraine a few weeks back and meet with thier government he was asked during the press conference how the uk would help with the up coming invasion. Sanctions on Russian individuals, refugees, defensive military hardware etc.
Of course he was`nt, he was asked about cake. And we`re asked to listen to our media to trust their reporting when it comes to small matters such as war. [Post edited 7 Mar 2022 15:47]
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| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:40 - Mar 7 with 2345 views | Ranger_Things |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 20:22 - Mar 6 by Northernr |
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I’m not sure but it wouldn’t surprise me if that was genuine. You can’t blame the Russian people for believing Putin’s narrative, even though it sounds completely nuts to us. People in the west actually choose to believe all kinds of crazy s hit pumped out by Russian bot farms, Facebook, Fox news, RT etc, which to me is even more bizarre as unlike the Russians we actually have free access to all news outlets. I still find it staggering that the vast majority of Republicans believe the ‘Big lie’ that Donald Trump really won the 2020 election. I guess Joseph Goebbels was correct when he said “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” |  | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:00 - Mar 7 with 2298 views | daveB |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:29 - Mar 7 by Sharpy36 |
Totally agree. We`re to believe Putin is a monster not only at home but on the world stage because our media tell us he is. This conflict has been very hard to get an understanding of whats happening as all media both here and in Russia has either been shut down or censured. |
You only have to see the footage of whats happening so work it out for yourself. the footage the likes of BBC, Sky & ITV have got has been incredible. Unless they have made it themselves I'm not sure how anyone can be confused by whats happening |  | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:11 - Mar 7 with 2251 views | DannytheR |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:00 - Mar 7 by daveB |
You only have to see the footage of whats happening so work it out for yourself. the footage the likes of BBC, Sky & ITV have got has been incredible. Unless they have made it themselves I'm not sure how anyone can be confused by whats happening |
Even war reporters are just "the media" now. |  | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:11 - Mar 7 with 2250 views | ted_hendrix |
Having just watched the BBC 3 minute video I never made It to the end, It's the first time I've ever seen dead bodies from a news outlet, a Father his Wife and their two children laying dead In the street whilst trying to escape, murdered just murdered.
Any of you posters who know me but have a miniscule of support for putin, keep the fck away from me from now on. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:21 - Mar 7 with 2204 views | Konk |
Well, even if you ignored what’s happening in Ukraine, Russia has closed down virtually all remaining independent TV stations, radio stations, newspapers and magazines. Putin has also jailed, exiled or attempted to assassinate political opponents, with participation in anti-war demonstrations punishable by 3 years in jail, and up to 10(?) years for publishing “misinformation” about the war.
Meanwhile, in the UK, our media remain unsanctioned despite often critical analysis of governments, Putin-apologists/sympathisers have been free to have their say in interviews and op-eds, and we’re not blocking internet access, whilst RT is still on air for the moment. I could also go and peacefully show support for the war outside Parliament without being thrown in jail. So, flawed as aspects of our media may be, I’m staggered that anyone could genuinely be unsure about whether the state controlled media in Russia or the free and independent media in the UK might be the most reliable witnesses to what’s going on in Ukraine. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:23 - Mar 7 with 2199 views | Northernr |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 15:37 - Mar 7 by Sharpy36 |
No of course not, not sure where you got that from?
When Boris visited the Ukraine a few weeks back and meet with thier government he was asked during the press conference how the uk would help with the up coming invasion. Sanctions on Russian individuals, refugees, defensive military hardware etc.
Of course he was`nt, he was asked about cake. And we`re asked to listen to our media to trust their reporting when it comes to small matters such as war. [Post edited 7 Mar 2022 15:47]
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Ok, well now we've established that I think it's pretty safe to label Putin as a monster then isn't it? Killing innocent people, bombing their flats, destroying their cities? Nothing to do with "the media". | | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:46 - Mar 7 with 2117 views | Sharpy36 |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:23 - Mar 7 by Northernr |
Ok, well now we've established that I think it's pretty safe to label Putin as a monster then isn't it? Killing innocent people, bombing their flats, destroying their cities? Nothing to do with "the media". |
He`s a kunt and hopefully if rumours are to be believed that he has terminal cancer, hopefully his last breath is him choking on his own blood, better ?
Now to my second point...
`This conflict has been very hard to get an understanding of whats happening as all media both here and in Russia has either been shut down or censured`
Or maybe my edit in that post of Beth rigby`s question to Boris ?
Or this piece ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60642100
No one`s denying the horrific scenes unfolding before our eyes in Ukraine, but for me these last few years of Brexit, covid, war and cake have left a lot of people a little bit sceptical of what we see and hear from our media. [Post edited 7 Mar 2022 16:48]
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| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:51 - Mar 7 with 2100 views | qpr_1968 |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:00 - Mar 7 by daveB |
You only have to see the footage of whats happening so work it out for yourself. the footage the likes of BBC, Sky & ITV have got has been incredible. Unless they have made it themselves I'm not sure how anyone can be confused by whats happening |
the footage of stuart ramsey and his team from sky being ambushed was pretty hairy, and how they made it out alive was a miracle, saved by them bullet proof vests and a helmet.
oh and 3 workers from a factory that took the 5 of them in....think there was 5, maybe 4. | |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:51 - Mar 7 with 2097 views | Juzzie |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:00 - Mar 7 by daveB |
You only have to see the footage of whats happening so work it out for yourself. the footage the likes of BBC, Sky & ITV have got has been incredible. Unless they have made it themselves I'm not sure how anyone can be confused by whats happening |
Unfortunately just seeing videos is not enough. The context of footage can be skewed either way. Everything I have presented to people I know who are believing what they are being told always counters it with something. He completely believes what he's told.
Q "Why are Russian's shelling civilian housing" (as everyone clearly sees on tv) I ask.
A "Because they are harbouring Ukraine soldiers and nationalists"
Q "Why is Russia engaging in a military actions at a fkin' Nuclear power station"?
A "It's not the Russian's. The Russian's had already taken it without a firefight. The shooting is the Ukrainian's trying to take it back. Why would we endanger it, it would cause a lot of problems depending on the wind"
I checked and the wind was coming from the north that day so any contaminant would go down across Crimea and into Turkey.
Q "why are you shelling civilians during a ceasefire"
A "we're not, it Ukrainian nationals trying to take advantage of the ceasefire shelling Russian's"
And on it goes.
Suffice to say I'm not going to bother discussing it anymore with him. If Putin and his supporters truly believe what their stance is then why are they shutting off everything and introducing draconian laws if you speak out. Why not be completely transparent about it if you have nothing to hide. The fact they are shows they do have something to hide, surely.
The thing is, the propaganda is so strong you can't reason with people who are so entrenched (and they think it's the same with us and our news agencies). Just like we've seen on here with Brexit, Covid etc.
It's depressing beyond words.
edit: typo's
[Post edited 7 Mar 2022 17:03]
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 17:02 - Mar 7 with 2042 views | Northernr |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:46 - Mar 7 by Sharpy36 |
He`s a kunt and hopefully if rumours are to be believed that he has terminal cancer, hopefully his last breath is him choking on his own blood, better ?
Now to my second point...
`This conflict has been very hard to get an understanding of whats happening as all media both here and in Russia has either been shut down or censured`
Or maybe my edit in that post of Beth rigby`s question to Boris ?
Or this piece ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60642100
No one`s denying the horrific scenes unfolding before our eyes in Ukraine, but for me these last few years of Brexit, covid, war and cake have left a lot of people a little bit sceptical of what we see and hear from our media. [Post edited 7 Mar 2022 16:48]
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In this case, what more do you need to see? What understanding are we missing here? | | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 17:06 - Mar 7 with 2027 views | slmrstid |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:51 - Mar 7 by Juzzie |
Unfortunately just seeing videos is not enough. The context of footage can be skewed either way. Everything I have presented to people I know who are believing what they are being told always counters it with something. He completely believes what he's told.
Q "Why are Russian's shelling civilian housing" (as everyone clearly sees on tv) I ask.
A "Because they are harbouring Ukraine soldiers and nationalists"
Q "Why is Russia engaging in a military actions at a fkin' Nuclear power station"?
A "It's not the Russian's. The Russian's had already taken it without a firefight. The shooting is the Ukrainian's trying to take it back. Why would we endanger it, it would cause a lot of problems depending on the wind"
I checked and the wind was coming from the north that day so any contaminant would go down across Crimea and into Turkey.
Q "why are you shelling civilians during a ceasefire"
A "we're not, it Ukrainian nationals trying to take advantage of the ceasefire shelling Russian's"
And on it goes.
Suffice to say I'm not going to bother discussing it anymore with him. If Putin and his supporters truly believe what their stance is then why are they shutting off everything and introducing draconian laws if you speak out. Why not be completely transparent about it if you have nothing to hide. The fact they are shows they do have something to hide, surely.
The thing is, the propaganda is so strong you can't reason with people who are so entrenched (and they think it's the same with us and our news agencies). Just like we've seen on here with Brexit, Covid etc.
It's depressing beyond words.
edit: typo's
[Post edited 7 Mar 2022 17:03]
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All good points Juzzie.
Whats also come to my mind, is this is partly kicking off because Putin is determined to stop all these other Eastern European nations looking west and wants to bring them back under Russia's influence.
The question that the Russians seem to not to be asking themselves is why all these countries want more to do with the west, and less to do with Russia, in the first place.
The saying "When its everyone else...its probably you" applies here.
(OK I know its a bit simplistic but still...) |  | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 17:06 - Mar 7 with 2025 views | Sharpy36 |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 17:02 - Mar 7 by Northernr |
In this case, what more do you need to see? What understanding are we missing here? |
I think Juzzie sums it up better than i ever could. | |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 17:30 - Mar 7 with 1930 views | daveB |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 16:46 - Mar 7 by Sharpy36 |
He`s a kunt and hopefully if rumours are to be believed that he has terminal cancer, hopefully his last breath is him choking on his own blood, better ?
Now to my second point...
`This conflict has been very hard to get an understanding of whats happening as all media both here and in Russia has either been shut down or censured`
Or maybe my edit in that post of Beth rigby`s question to Boris ?
Or this piece ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60642100
No one`s denying the horrific scenes unfolding before our eyes in Ukraine, but for me these last few years of Brexit, covid, war and cake have left a lot of people a little bit sceptical of what we see and hear from our media. [Post edited 7 Mar 2022 16:48]
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I do understand skepticism and people shouldn't just believe everything they hear but do think the broadcast news in this country is very good and tries to give a balanced view.
I find it hilarious that the BBC are seen as left wing wokes trying to bring the government down whilst also being accused of being a government mouthpiece at the same time. It's an impressive trick to be both.
They don't always get it right and you are always going to have some presenters/reporters who lean one way or the other politically and that comes through but I don't think we have anything as one eyed as you get in America for example with Fox News. Once people get their way and defund the BBC and sell off channel 4 though that may well change in the future and be more like the print media which is unashamedly biased towards whichever party they support | | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 17:51 - Mar 7 with 3626 views | Juzzie |
"I find it hilarious that the BBC are seen as left wing wokes trying to bring the government down whilst also being accused of being a government mouthpiece at the same time. It's an impressive trick to be both."
I was talking to a friend the other day (mainly about news/media propaganda, manipulation etc) and he made an interesting point about the BBC. They are by no means perfect but he said if the left think they are right and the right think they are left then maybe they are doing what they are meant to be doing..... presenting news from all perspectives. You know, actually doing an unbiased job?
By doing so means not everyone will agree with what they say, it doesn't automatically mean they are biased if you don't happen to agree with it.
Surely news channels should be thought provoking and challenging what people think and individuals in turn should be opened minded to what they hear because the world doesn't, and never will, fit within a singular narrative.
News agencies such as Fox News, NewsGB feed peoples' narrative by only reporting what the conservative audience want to hear and the same with left leaning ones too.
That cannot be good. | | | |
| Russia, Ukraine & Abramovich on 18:22 - Mar 7 with 3489 views | Boston |
Last year everyone was a medical expert, this year it’s military. | |
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