| Just back observations 20:36 - Dec 27 with 13859 views | BlackCrowe |
Not good. Lucky to get away with 1-0 but could've been a different game were it not for pure Stroud for their goal...we'll never know.
Midfield overrun, we couldn't handle their high press (which they do very well) and Willock and Chair were neutralised from the start.
Biggest irritation was not making subs much much sooner, it was obvious to us that 5-10 mins into the second half nothing had changed, the subs should've come then. And btw Uncs over Kakay every time for starting position.
As for Bournemouth's pantomime collapsing....utterly utterly pathetic, the management and the players should be ashamed. But of course won't be. |  |
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| Just back observations on 17:17 - Dec 28 with 2030 views | stowmarketrange |
| Just back observations on 17:12 - Dec 28 by qprmike |
As a qualified referee too - I can not agree that it is acceptable to be told by the 4th official. If he missed it he missed it.
And he manages the game terribly. He might be technical correct - although sorry it wasnt a foul and therefore no debate it was not a yellow -but he takes no account of how his behaviour affects the temperament of the game. I wonder how many games he refs end up with fights or fracas.
One of the most important thing to me when refereeing is to consider the spirit of the game. Mr Stroud manages to change the spirit and cause anger - not just to us but to the players and all supporters. I have yet to see a match that he has officiated where he is not the centre of attention. The best referees you dont even notice even when it is a "lively" match.
He is a liability and should not be allowed to ref at this level. He makes the role of those of us who referee at a much lower level much more difficult. |
Look on the bright side.It’s Andy woolmer up next. |  | | |
| Just back observations on 17:32 - Dec 28 with 1989 views | MrSheen |
On the subject of Stroud, did anyone else think he missed a handball by Seny from a miscontrolled backpass way outside the box? Happened in injury time, people were laughing with relief around us. I imagine Stroud might have worried about getting out alive if he had got a red card out then. |  | | |
| Just back observations on 17:39 - Dec 28 with 1965 views | stowmarketrange |
| Just back observations on 15:35 - Dec 28 by PinnerPaul |
Pen - live I didn't think it was, but Mrs Pinner and another fan thought it was - did it look it on TV? |
Would that sort of challenge anywhere else on the pitch have not lead to a free kick being awarded?A player tries to get to an incoming ball but is taken out from behind,whether he could’ve got to it or not shouldn’t really come in to it surely?If it does,how can cards be given for off the ball incidents? | | | |
| Just back observations on 17:44 - Dec 28 with 1946 views | Match82 |
| Just back observations on 17:32 - Dec 28 by MrSheen |
On the subject of Stroud, did anyone else think he missed a handball by Seny from a miscontrolled backpass way outside the box? Happened in injury time, people were laughing with relief around us. I imagine Stroud might have worried about getting out alive if he had got a red card out then. |
Yeah their fans were definitely calling for that too. Looked like it at first glance (would that have been red though? Surely not?) but haven't seen a replay |  | | |
| Just back observations on 18:12 - Dec 28 with 1893 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Just back observations on 14:56 - Dec 28 by QPROslo |
So did Barbet imo. |
Dunne and Dozzell have both made great progress since arriving. Delighted with both.
Can’t understand why Kakay is not however. His positional sense and defending is still causing us problems. Why the lack of progress from a coaching point of view?
For me, Uncs cannot manage a full 90 mins at wing back. At 70 mins he is done and in truth becomes a defensive liability, even when fully fit. I personally prefer to see him come on at 60 mins and terrorise the oppo’ left back for half an hour. Has proven time and time again how effective this can be. Jury still out on the elusive, erratic Adabujo.
Still much work to do to find the balance and fitness needed to maintain the push. |  | | |
| Just back observations on 18:28 - Dec 28 with 1854 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Just back observations on 15:27 - Dec 28 by PinnerPaul |
Not read any other comments, at the game and just seen the EFL highlights back and seen MW's interview - I like the bloke, he's done a great job, but that interview has just done my head in.
Bournemouth by far the better team, we had ONE shot, that I could have saved.
They missed two sitters and only great last ditch defending stopped them scoring another couple.
1st 20 mins - evenly matched and the football we played - 20? passes that led to the fk outside the box was delightful, but after that we created nothing and I thought Field (more on him soon) had a really poor game in the middle before he went to the left after Wallace went off.
MW - As I said before the game, he moaned about no games in 21 days after complaining about 17 games in 21 days before. At it again last night, implying league should be halted, which of course will result in more games in a shorter period of time.
Mr S - That's a free kick (that led to the goal), all day long and all year long - caution a bit debateable but he said it was for 3 fouls, so can accept that.
MW said Dozzell didn't deserve the two yellows - I don't know in what universe a blatant pull back (AD didn't argue about it) and grabbing someone round the throat repeatedly (DW didn't argue about it) are not yellow cards.
Only real debate for me was the SJ penalty shout, live, I didn't think it was, Mrs Pinner thought it could have been - wasn't on the EFL highlights so will leave that there.
Other than the usual foul/no foul calls we all disagree over in all games, with all refs don't think he did much wrong.
Plus point as well for telling Bournemouth number 8, I think it was, to get up and not allowing physio on near the end.
Poor performance from us including leaving Solanki with two free headers and creating nothing leaves me a little worried about the rest of the season tbh. Need to stop this becoming a poor run, that as Clive said in his preview, seems to be a feature of the division this season. |
manager in protecting his team (and self) from criticism shocker.
If you applied half of your understanding for refs to understanding for managers you'd be... well, a lot more understanding of why managers say what they say immediately after games when adrenalin is still pounding. |  |
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| Just back observations on 19:09 - Dec 28 with 1755 views | davman |
| Just back observations on 15:31 - Dec 28 by kensalriser |
On Dozzell's second yellow, it should be drummed into every footballer that if handbags break out and you're on a yellow, do a Lineker - watch it from the furthest point of the pitch possible. |
Sorry, matey, mine should have been an up arrow not a down one! |  |
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| Just back observations on 19:46 - Dec 28 with 1668 views | WatfordR |
| Just back observations on 15:55 - Dec 28 by PinnerPaul |
He caught Lerma about knee height with his knee - its a foul - annoying about his fall but doesn't make it less of a foul.
Give that tiny pull and you're stopping the game every 2 mins - that's not a foul at this level.
Added 5 mins on and didn't start the 5 until the Bournemouth players had stopped rolling around on the floor - added time on for the melee.
Refused treatment for at least 2 Bournemouth players as well.
4th official told him about Dozzell - hard NOT to take your time in those situations - you go and stand next to a 20 man push and shove session and decide who should get red/yellow/nothing - its not easy! |
Just on the 4th official thing. I thought it was agreed that the Sunderland goal couldn’t have had anything to do with the 4th official as he has no input outside VAR/Prem. Was he therefore entitled to highlight something missed by the three officials yesterday? |  | | |
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| Just back observations on 19:56 - Dec 28 with 1667 views | baz_qpr |
Watched on TV due to Covid, so my perspective might be different.
I thought Bournmouth deserved the win even if the goal came from a free kick that was never a free kick
Kakay had an ok first half but a pretty poor 2nd half and was screaming for Uncs to come on earlier. For many of us I would have thought swap Uncs for Kakay and that would be our strongest starting 11
I thought Field had a good game in centre midfield and the point of playing him is to free up Johanson who had another below par game, and needs to get further forward. We need to get as much game time from these two together as possible to try and get back to the form of spring. There is a problem I think with playing Dozzell and Johanson as neither get forward enough nor are robust enough to hold to let the other get forward
Willock was off par throughout even prior to Chair going off injured.
Dykes played like a player who has not played for 2 months and was the wrong choice up front often finding himself behind Chair and Willock where I think Gray or Austin would have led the line better
Wallace as good as he has been was really off the pace, lost his man for the goal, and IMHO had a poorer game than Kakay.
Dunne was superb |  | | |
| Just back observations on 20:00 - Dec 28 with 1656 views | derbyhoop |
| Just back observations on 23:00 - Dec 27 by bongo_king |
Not a great night but think we've got to keep perspective:
- Bournemouth were the better team - unlike when we played them earlier in the season - and deserved it over the 90. We haven't played for 3 weeks, some players have been ill/injured and it showed.
- That said, Stroud did what he does. I saw a stat that Bournemouth have now played 13 won 13 with the hometown boy as ref. IMO free kick never was one, if we were his hometown we'd have had at least one pen, Dozzell's 2nd yellow deserved for handbags but first barely.
- Despite being outplayed for most of the match, last 15 mins we were unlucky, constant pressure but it just didn't drop for us in the box.
- On specific players - unfair on Kakay, he did a job in the circumstance, I'd say his normal level is lower Champ / L1 and he played well above that tonight against what is almost certainly a prem team next year. Unlike a Mr Todd Kane, he beat the first man with all his crosses. Wallace similarly tried but just back from injury.
- On team selection - with 3 games in 6 days and Chair, Kakay, Dieng about to disappear its risky to play Adomah and wallace for the 90. So would have been nice to e.g start uncs but fair chance we'd run into problems in a few games. Ageee that midfield clearly overrrun from about min 30 and needed changes.
For me it's onwards, fingers crossed, and upwards, if we can keep players fit. |
Agree with most of that.
EXCEPT Dozzell's first yellow was clear cut. |  |
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| Just back observations on 22:10 - Dec 28 with 1531 views | daveB |
| Just back observations on 15:55 - Dec 28 by PinnerPaul |
He caught Lerma about knee height with his knee - its a foul - annoying about his fall but doesn't make it less of a foul.
Give that tiny pull and you're stopping the game every 2 mins - that's not a foul at this level.
Added 5 mins on and didn't start the 5 until the Bournemouth players had stopped rolling around on the floor - added time on for the melee.
Refused treatment for at least 2 Bournemouth players as well.
4th official told him about Dozzell - hard NOT to take your time in those situations - you go and stand next to a 20 man push and shove session and decide who should get red/yellow/nothing - its not easy! |
knee height? you need to watch it again mate thats nonsense
Field is in front of Lerma diving in and winning the ball, Lerma comes in behind and runs into Field and falls dramatically over him.
I wouldn't suggest it is easy to referee games but every time I see this bloke the game turns into a farce and it's apparently never his fault. He sets the tone for the time wasting, was the same in the away game lets it go time and time again then makes a few dramatic gestures pointing to his watch which the players ignore. |  | | |
| Just back observations on 10:14 - Dec 29 with 1281 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Just back observations on 15:27 - Dec 28 by PinnerPaul |
Not read any other comments, at the game and just seen the EFL highlights back and seen MW's interview - I like the bloke, he's done a great job, but that interview has just done my head in.
Bournemouth by far the better team, we had ONE shot, that I could have saved.
They missed two sitters and only great last ditch defending stopped them scoring another couple.
1st 20 mins - evenly matched and the football we played - 20? passes that led to the fk outside the box was delightful, but after that we created nothing and I thought Field (more on him soon) had a really poor game in the middle before he went to the left after Wallace went off.
MW - As I said before the game, he moaned about no games in 21 days after complaining about 17 games in 21 days before. At it again last night, implying league should be halted, which of course will result in more games in a shorter period of time.
Mr S - That's a free kick (that led to the goal), all day long and all year long - caution a bit debateable but he said it was for 3 fouls, so can accept that.
MW said Dozzell didn't deserve the two yellows - I don't know in what universe a blatant pull back (AD didn't argue about it) and grabbing someone round the throat repeatedly (DW didn't argue about it) are not yellow cards.
Only real debate for me was the SJ penalty shout, live, I didn't think it was, Mrs Pinner thought it could have been - wasn't on the EFL highlights so will leave that there.
Other than the usual foul/no foul calls we all disagree over in all games, with all refs don't think he did much wrong.
Plus point as well for telling Bournemouth number 8, I think it was, to get up and not allowing physio on near the end.
Poor performance from us including leaving Solanki with two free headers and creating nothing leaves me a little worried about the rest of the season tbh. Need to stop this becoming a poor run, that as Clive said in his preview, seems to be a feature of the division this season. |
Pretty much agree with all of this. The MW interview was rose-tinted to say the least and really just recycled footballing cliches. The fans deserve better from a manager who likes to style himself as the image of honesty. Stroud aside, why not just agree we were beaten all over the park by a better side, Mark, and emphasise how the game set a bar for us we need to have to try to get closer to? I think this would also have the double benefit of both adding perspective while challenging the players. Unfortunately, most of his comments defaulted to the officiating and the schedule/Covid situation etc., rather than dealing with our lack of creativity and goal efforts, and he needs to have a word with himself.
I think the Field incident was a foul, probably a yellow to boot, and our inability to at least affect Solanke's ascent was our downfall, end of. At the same time, the fracas at the end was unpleasant, their gamesmanship was embarrassing, and I tend to agree with Clive that the referee's mismanagement of the game contributed significantly. I'd also suggest, though we were clearly very frustrated at their antics by the end, we were also, no doubt, steaming at the limitations of what we showed.
We move on, but two successive home defeats, no goals scored, and mediocre showings in both games at best, have certainly dampened my expectations. Bristol and Birmingham will tell us a lot about this team's bouncebackability, though player availability and fitness in the next few weeks will play a big part, as I'm sure MW will be reminding us. [Post edited 29 Dec 2021 10:17]
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| Just back observations on 11:24 - Dec 29 with 1208 views | PinnerPaul |
| Just back observations on 17:12 - Dec 28 by qprmike |
As a qualified referee too - I can not agree that it is acceptable to be told by the 4th official. If he missed it he missed it.
And he manages the game terribly. He might be technical correct - although sorry it wasnt a foul and therefore no debate it was not a yellow -but he takes no account of how his behaviour affects the temperament of the game. I wonder how many games he refs end up with fights or fracas.
One of the most important thing to me when refereeing is to consider the spirit of the game. Mr Stroud manages to change the spirit and cause anger - not just to us but to the players and all supporters. I have yet to see a match that he has officiated where he is not the centre of attention. The best referees you dont even notice even when it is a "lively" match.
He is a liability and should not be allowed to ref at this level. He makes the role of those of us who referee at a much lower level much more difficult. |
4th official duties (From LOTG)
"assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
Erm that's his job!
Surprised as a referee you've fallen for the football myth that mass confrontations are the referees fault and that he is expected to spot everything that happens in a 20 man push and shove session.
End of an Isthmian U18s game I was AR on last month ended with a mass confrontation after a player took exception to how his oppo shook his hand!
20+ involved, player turns to me and says "You saw that lino" erm, no mate I didn't and then one manager shouts that its all the referees fault - how? why? | | | |
| Just back observations on 11:34 - Dec 29 with 1178 views | gazza1 |
| Just back observations on 11:24 - Dec 29 by PinnerPaul |
4th official duties (From LOTG)
"assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
Erm that's his job!
Surprised as a referee you've fallen for the football myth that mass confrontations are the referees fault and that he is expected to spot everything that happens in a 20 man push and shove session.
End of an Isthmian U18s game I was AR on last month ended with a mass confrontation after a player took exception to how his oppo shook his hand!
20+ involved, player turns to me and says "You saw that lino" erm, no mate I didn't and then one manager shouts that its all the referees fault - how? why? |
I could say lots and lots about the game v Bournemouth but it really is not worth it because most posters have preconceived ideas whether they are blatantly wrong or not and they follow the leader very often indeed.....
My view re the fracas at the end......it was handled very well by all of the 4 officials. Dozzell needs to be fined for his part in it. Yellow at best, maybe a red, just don't know those rules nowadays. | | | |
| Just back observations on 11:36 - Dec 29 with 1170 views | gazza1 |
| Just back observations on 19:46 - Dec 28 by WatfordR |
Just on the 4th official thing. I thought it was agreed that the Sunderland goal couldn’t have had anything to do with the 4th official as he has no input outside VAR/Prem. Was he therefore entitled to highlight something missed by the three officials yesterday? |
The 4th official would, pretty much, never get involved with offside decisions in the penalty area or at all really...... | | | |
| Just back observations on 11:36 - Dec 29 with 1176 views | daveB |
| Just back observations on 11:24 - Dec 29 by PinnerPaul |
4th official duties (From LOTG)
"assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
Erm that's his job!
Surprised as a referee you've fallen for the football myth that mass confrontations are the referees fault and that he is expected to spot everything that happens in a 20 man push and shove session.
End of an Isthmian U18s game I was AR on last month ended with a mass confrontation after a player took exception to how his oppo shook his hand!
20+ involved, player turns to me and says "You saw that lino" erm, no mate I didn't and then one manager shouts that its all the referees fault - how? why? |
How has a man on the halfway line got a clearer view than the referee who is 5 yards away? Unless he's watched a replay which they are not supposed to do I can't fathom why he has got involved. | | | |
| Just back observations on 11:37 - Dec 29 with 1177 views | francisbowles |
| Just back observations on 11:34 - Dec 29 by gazza1 |
I could say lots and lots about the game v Bournemouth but it really is not worth it because most posters have preconceived ideas whether they are blatantly wrong or not and they follow the leader very often indeed.....
My view re the fracas at the end......it was handled very well by all of the 4 officials. Dozzell needs to be fined for his part in it. Yellow at best, maybe a red, just don't know those rules nowadays. |
I presume you include yourself in the 'most posters...............' comment, gazza1. | | | |
| Just back observations on 11:51 - Dec 29 with 1149 views | gazza1 |
| Just back observations on 11:37 - Dec 29 by francisbowles |
I presume you include yourself in the 'most posters...............' comment, gazza1. |
No I do not include myself in that......what I would say is that I have no real problems with Stroud's performance, I do have issues with the R's performance though, or lack of it. | | | |
| Just back observations on 11:57 - Dec 29 with 1141 views | WatfordR |
| Just back observations on 11:24 - Dec 29 by PinnerPaul |
4th official duties (From LOTG)
"assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
Erm that's his job!
Surprised as a referee you've fallen for the football myth that mass confrontations are the referees fault and that he is expected to spot everything that happens in a 20 man push and shove session.
End of an Isthmian U18s game I was AR on last month ended with a mass confrontation after a player took exception to how his oppo shook his hand!
20+ involved, player turns to me and says "You saw that lino" erm, no mate I didn't and then one manager shouts that its all the referees fault - how? why? |
"assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
I understand that SKy Sports showed very little of the fracas again, but did replay the very start of it when Dozzell's grapple was clearly shown.
Now, if the 4th official's "clearer view" came from the video replay...well I'm sure some of you will know where I'm going here...why didn't the fourth official at the Sunderland game use his "clearer view" of the video to assist the referee?
I will also wonder how all four officials missed Ben Pearson steaming 50-60 yards to get involved and hitting anything in a blue and white shirt. And if they all missed it, why the panel who review these things retrospectively haven't been involved. | | | |
| Just back observations on 12:13 - Dec 29 with 1129 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Just back observations on 11:57 - Dec 29 by WatfordR |
"assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"
I understand that SKy Sports showed very little of the fracas again, but did replay the very start of it when Dozzell's grapple was clearly shown.
Now, if the 4th official's "clearer view" came from the video replay...well I'm sure some of you will know where I'm going here...why didn't the fourth official at the Sunderland game use his "clearer view" of the video to assist the referee?
I will also wonder how all four officials missed Ben Pearson steaming 50-60 yards to get involved and hitting anything in a blue and white shirt. And if they all missed it, why the panel who review these things retrospectively haven't been involved. |
pearson got a yellow for it. -i think. | |
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| Just back observations on 12:17 - Dec 29 with 1100 views | WatfordR |
| Just back observations on 12:13 - Dec 29 by Antti_Heinola |
pearson got a yellow for it. -i think. |
He did, you’re right, but presumably not for his initial actions otherwise it would have to have been a red. | | | |
| Just back observations on 15:04 - Dec 29 with 981 views | PinnerPaul |
| Just back observations on 17:32 - Dec 28 by MrSheen |
On the subject of Stroud, did anyone else think he missed a handball by Seny from a miscontrolled backpass way outside the box? Happened in injury time, people were laughing with relief around us. I imagine Stroud might have worried about getting out alive if he had got a red card out then. |
What would the red card have been for?  | | | |
| Just back observations on 15:07 - Dec 29 with 968 views | PinnerPaul |
| Just back observations on 11:34 - Dec 29 by gazza1 |
I could say lots and lots about the game v Bournemouth but it really is not worth it because most posters have preconceived ideas whether they are blatantly wrong or not and they follow the leader very often indeed.....
My view re the fracas at the end......it was handled very well by all of the 4 officials. Dozzell needs to be fined for his part in it. Yellow at best, maybe a red, just don't know those rules nowadays. |
Yep!
Didn't actually make contact with the bloke's face, so yellow fair enough I think.
Obviously straight red would have been 3 games off, only 1 for 2 yellows. | | | |
| Just back observations on 15:08 - Dec 29 with 953 views | PinnerPaul |
| Just back observations on 11:36 - Dec 29 by daveB |
How has a man on the halfway line got a clearer view than the referee who is 5 yards away? Unless he's watched a replay which they are not supposed to do I can't fathom why he has got involved. |
Even I'm getting bored now.
How can he see everything in a 20 man melee - he can't!
Add to that the fact that most of the players had to run past him to get to the incident! | | | |
| Just back observations on 18:11 - Dec 29 with 842 views | OldPedro |
| Just back observations on 15:08 - Dec 29 by PinnerPaul |
Even I'm getting bored now.
How can he see everything in a 20 man melee - he can't!
Add to that the fact that most of the players had to run past him to get to the incident! |
He can't but the 4th official stood even further away can.......??? |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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