| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? 07:25 - Jan 30 with 32219 views | Glyn1 |
And why, exactly?
Controversial Jack, but who else?
From CJ : "Appears that it could only be 70% effective and not 90% , and none of those in the trial given the low dosage were over 55. Given that many won't have the vaccine and it's effectiveness is just 70% it's going to be a crock of shit."
[Post edited 30 Jan 2021 7:28]
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 17:10 - Feb 3 with 1193 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 16:54 - Feb 3 by exhmrc1 |
I dont know why the EC are making such a fuss about AZ if they dont intend using it for older groups. Is it just to cover up the failings in production of Pfizer vaccine. |
They’re playing politics with people’s lives in order to cover up their inadequacies in securing and rolling out the vaccines.
Pretty despicable. |  |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 17:52 - Feb 3 with 1174 views | Catullus |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 14:25 - Feb 2 by exhmrc1 |
I know that is something we Welsh have and no doubt others. I have been told by American cousins that I sing as I talk and they find difficulty picking up what I say. I have learned to speak slower for them. I can understand why Drakeford speaks slowly in his conferences. Probably years as a lecturer like you. |
Oh do give it a rest. If Drakeford were speaking only to Americans or Eastern Europeans it could be understood but he's speaking to his fellow Welsh citizens.
When you go to other parts of Wales (I'm expcting a yes answer even if it's not true) do you speak so slowly the other person has gone to sleep before you finish?
Personally, even when in Florida I have no trouble being understood when I speak clearly and a friend from Yorkshire says the same about singing but she thought it was really nice. Slowing down a little bit for foreigners, understandable, speaking at a snails pace for fellow citizens....makes it sounds like he thinks he's talking to plebs.
Thing is I don't think he deliberatley slows down, I think that's how he talks. |  |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 18:28 - Feb 3 with 1155 views | exhmrc1 |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 17:52 - Feb 3 by Catullus |
Oh do give it a rest. If Drakeford were speaking only to Americans or Eastern Europeans it could be understood but he's speaking to his fellow Welsh citizens.
When you go to other parts of Wales (I'm expcting a yes answer even if it's not true) do you speak so slowly the other person has gone to sleep before you finish?
Personally, even when in Florida I have no trouble being understood when I speak clearly and a friend from Yorkshire says the same about singing but she thought it was really nice. Slowing down a little bit for foreigners, understandable, speaking at a snails pace for fellow citizens....makes it sounds like he thinks he's talking to plebs.
Thing is I don't think he deliberatley slows down, I think that's how he talks. |
If you have spent years slowing down to allow students to understand it becomes habit and that is what is happening. As I say it is something that I have had to do myself. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:05 - Feb 4 with 1089 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 14:52 - Feb 1 by Scotia |
The impact around transmission is a little speculative, it is certain to reduce it but we don't know by how much. The Israeli studies preliminary results suggest by 60% , that would be great. The vaccine hasn't been around long enough to be sure yet.
Don't rely on google - it's often Chinese whispers. This is one of the original papers on the results of the Pfizer trial.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577
In a nutshell - you were 95% less likely to get Covid symptoms at all if you received the actual vaccine. |
Having covid symptoms doesn't relate to having the actual virus, or passing it on though mate. |  |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:10 - Feb 4 with 1087 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 18:56 - Feb 1 by hobo |
Post mortems are no longer done. So tested positive and died = Chuck it onto the COVID death figures, chaps |
Doesn't even have to be positive at time of death. Any positive test at any time of your life, then you die, you are on the list of covid deaths which the news spouts out every day. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:13 - Feb 4 with 1086 views | Catullus |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 18:28 - Feb 3 by exhmrc1 |
If you have spent years slowing down to allow students to understand it becomes habit and that is what is happening. As I say it is something that I have had to do myself. |
Tack changed then, ok. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:13 - Feb 4 with 1086 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 20:01 - Feb 1 by Catullus |
Even the experts didn't know exactly what to do when this started and the government didn't follow advice exactly because they were trying to mitigate damage to the economy, which was wrong.
However, the vaccine will save lives so believing any loony saying don't have it will definitely cost more lives, having it will save lives
PS, any illegal or false documentation bought online and used could end up with you being refused a flight and arrested and prosecuted.
PPS, how can you justify anything by saying how long before fake one are available? That's completely looney. You can buy lots of fake stuff and some of it kills. |
Who are the experts though, World Health Organisation? | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:15 - Feb 4 with 1085 views | Catullus |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:13 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
Who are the experts though, World Health Organisation? |
The medical experts which should include W.H.O but they got it wrong in th beginning too. They made assumptions about the virus which weren't very accurate and the virus seems to have caught many experts napping. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:15 - Feb 4 with 1084 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 21:02 - Feb 1 by max936 |
I know of a few people that have died with covid, but a heart attack actually killed two of them, thing is with a death certificate, they document any illnesses they had as a cause of death, so Covid would be noted. So inevitably Covid will be mentioned and add to figures, that's my take on it, rightly or wrongly |
Those people would be on the covid death numbers put out by the government. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:18 - Feb 4 with 1084 views | Catullus |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:10 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
Doesn't even have to be positive at time of death. Any positive test at any time of your life, then you die, you are on the list of covid deaths which the news spouts out every day. |
I thought it was only if you had covid at the time of death or a positive test within 28 days of death. If someone had covid 6 months ago, recovered then had a heart attack and died today, covid wouldn't be on the certificate, I don't think so anyway.
I'm sure somebody can confirm or correct that. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:24 - Feb 4 with 1078 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:10 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
Doesn't even have to be positive at time of death. Any positive test at any time of your life, then you die, you are on the list of covid deaths which the news spouts out every day. |
If you die within 28 days of a positive test you are in the stats as dying with Covid. Not if you test positive at any time.
This probably includes very few people whose death wasn't related to Covid, though there will be a low percentage in that bracket. It will miss people who died of Covid more than 28 days after their test.
There is a separate stat for those with Covid on their death certificate, and that number is higher. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:25 - Feb 4 with 1074 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:05 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
Having covid symptoms doesn't relate to having the actual virus, or passing it on though mate. |
Sorry I don't know what you mean? | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:29 - Feb 4 with 1070 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:15 - Feb 4 by Catullus |
The medical experts which should include W.H.O but they got it wrong in th beginning too. They made assumptions about the virus which weren't very accurate and the virus seems to have caught many experts napping. |
Does it bother anyone that the WHO's second largest donor is the guy who stands to earn the most from vaccines?
https://assets.weforum.org/editor/responsive_large_webp_iBjBNBIbwlyKN-yMMEkJxShB | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:14 - Feb 4 with 1058 views | Scotia |
how is Bill Gates going to earn money from the vaccines?
His involvement doesn't bother me at all any aspect of Covid being a conspiracy of any form is bonkers. It's the worst conspiracy theory ever. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:17 - Feb 4 with 1058 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:18 - Feb 4 by Catullus |
I thought it was only if you had covid at the time of death or a positive test within 28 days of death. If someone had covid 6 months ago, recovered then had a heart attack and died today, covid wouldn't be on the certificate, I don't think so anyway.
I'm sure somebody can confirm or correct that. |
Not as far as I'm aware. Few quick searches found these.
I'm not saying these prove anything I'm saying, but they do explain that the death toll has been reported in strange ways.
This British Medical Journal publication actually says that they stopped recording every positive result in deaths in Aug 2020:
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3220
"PHE’s analysis showed that 88% of deaths from covid-19 in England occurred within 28 days of a positive test result, while 96% occurred within 60 days or had covid-19 on the death certificate. As a result, rather than counting anyone who had ever tested positive as a covid associated death, PHE will now use two definitions of death with covid-19 in England."
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-can-we-trust-the-covid-19-deat
The daily UK death toll- "It counts people who have died and tested positive for the virus. This isn’t exactly the same as “deaths from coronavirus” as the small print says: “Deaths of people who have had a positive test for COVID-19 could in some cases be due to a different cause.”"
Registered deaths where coronavirus is mentioned- "According to the Royal College of GPs, doctors can “register COVID-19 as the patient’s cause of death on the basis of a reasoned clinical assessment, whether or not they have been tested for the virus”."
https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting
This shows that they have changed the way they report now.
"For several months, the COVID-19 Data Dashboard has been reporting, for England, all deaths in people who have a positive test. This a robust measure as it uses the fact of a positive test and the fact of death to derive the number reported. However, it is only an approximation of the number of people who die from COVID-19 because other causes of death are included and some people who die from COVID-19 never had a positive test. It was decided to adopt this measure in April in order to be sure not to underestimate the number of COVID-19 related deaths. It was always intended to review the approach as the pandemic progressed.
The countries of the UK have been using slightly different methods. Scotland, for example, has only been counting deaths within 28 days of a positive test so that deaths from COVID-19 beyond 28 days are not included."
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-94-percent-covid-among-caus-idUSKBN
Thsi shows that 94% have comorbidity (CDC), so many many of them were obviously in the group which caused government to change the process. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:18 - Feb 4 with 1056 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:24 - Feb 4 by Scotia |
If you die within 28 days of a positive test you are in the stats as dying with Covid. Not if you test positive at any time.
This probably includes very few people whose death wasn't related to Covid, though there will be a low percentage in that bracket. It will miss people who died of Covid more than 28 days after their test.
There is a separate stat for those with Covid on their death certificate, and that number is higher. |
This only changed in aug 2020 | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:19 - Feb 4 with 1056 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 12:25 - Feb 4 by Scotia |
Sorry I don't know what you mean? |
Sorry, I mean that having covid symptoms is irrelevant becuase you can have covid and pass it on without ever showing a symptom.
Having covid symptoms means nothing. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:22 - Feb 4 with 1056 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:17 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
Not as far as I'm aware. Few quick searches found these.
I'm not saying these prove anything I'm saying, but they do explain that the death toll has been reported in strange ways.
This British Medical Journal publication actually says that they stopped recording every positive result in deaths in Aug 2020:
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3220
"PHE’s analysis showed that 88% of deaths from covid-19 in England occurred within 28 days of a positive test result, while 96% occurred within 60 days or had covid-19 on the death certificate. As a result, rather than counting anyone who had ever tested positive as a covid associated death, PHE will now use two definitions of death with covid-19 in England."
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-can-we-trust-the-covid-19-deat
The daily UK death toll- "It counts people who have died and tested positive for the virus. This isn’t exactly the same as “deaths from coronavirus” as the small print says: “Deaths of people who have had a positive test for COVID-19 could in some cases be due to a different cause.”"
Registered deaths where coronavirus is mentioned- "According to the Royal College of GPs, doctors can “register COVID-19 as the patient’s cause of death on the basis of a reasoned clinical assessment, whether or not they have been tested for the virus”."
https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting
This shows that they have changed the way they report now.
"For several months, the COVID-19 Data Dashboard has been reporting, for England, all deaths in people who have a positive test. This a robust measure as it uses the fact of a positive test and the fact of death to derive the number reported. However, it is only an approximation of the number of people who die from COVID-19 because other causes of death are included and some people who die from COVID-19 never had a positive test. It was decided to adopt this measure in April in order to be sure not to underestimate the number of COVID-19 related deaths. It was always intended to review the approach as the pandemic progressed.
The countries of the UK have been using slightly different methods. Scotland, for example, has only been counting deaths within 28 days of a positive test so that deaths from COVID-19 beyond 28 days are not included."
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-94-percent-covid-among-caus-idUSKBN
Thsi shows that 94% have comorbidity (CDC), so many many of them were obviously in the group which caused government to change the process. |
See my post earlier - they have changed to within 28 days and the figures have been revised to reflect this.
The"94%" figure is a red herring, the vast majority (nearly everyone) of people have more than one cause of death on the death certificate. And just because you had well controlled type 2 diabetes and that is on the death certificate along with Covid doesn't mean you would have died anyway. Covid almost certainly killed you. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:24 - Feb 4 with 1055 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:18 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
This only changed in aug 2020 |
It was England and figures have been revised. It's always been the case in the rest of the UK. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:27 - Feb 4 with 1053 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:19 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
Sorry, I mean that having covid symptoms is irrelevant becuase you can have covid and pass it on without ever showing a symptom.
Having covid symptoms means nothing. |
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/03/covid-coughing-study-suggests-nhs-
The vaccine stops you getting infected, developing symptoms and spreading it. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:41 - Feb 4 with 1047 views | controversial_jack |
It's correct about the PPE. in hospitals, even on the covid ward, doctors and senior staff, have the good fitting ones, nurses and care workers have to use the loose fitting surgical ones | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:57 - Feb 4 with 1042 views | jackrmee |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:14 - Feb 4 by Scotia |
how is Bill Gates going to earn money from the vaccines?
His involvement doesn't bother me at all any aspect of Covid being a conspiracy of any form is bonkers. It's the worst conspiracy theory ever. |
Bill Gates sells vaccines mate. I cant find rhe article now, but I read him saying about how they made a 21-1 profit on the other vaccines they are producing, to the tune of $200mil.
I'm not talking about coivd being a conspiracy.
I mean people take what WHO says for gospel, yet WHO are bankrolled by Bill Gates, who makes billions from pushing and selling vaccines.
Doesn't that bother anyone?
The people who are telling us what to do regarding covid, are in the debt and power of the people who will make the most money out of the vaccines. It's mental.
"The Gates foundation accounts for 45% of WHO’s funding from nongovernmental entities"
Lawrence Gostin said "“If a private foundation were to become WHO’s highest donor, it would be transformational,” "When WHO was formed as an intergovernmental organization, it “would have been unimaginable” that a private foundation could have such influence, he continued.
“It would enable a single rich philanthropist to set the global health agenda,” Gostin said, referring to Bill Gates, co-chair of the foundation."
https://www.devex.com/news/big-concerns-over-gates-foundation-s-potential-to-bec
"The Gates Foundation financially backs the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), part of the University of Washington, through an initial grant of $105m and a follow-up grant of $279m to produce global health data. IHME produces global burden of disease data, national estimates of health spending, and development assistance for health data. The IHME is required by the Gates Foundation to produce new estimates every year on the world’s health problems through the Global Burden of Disease study. The Gates Foundation uses these data to inform its funding portfolio. Never before has one institute had such a defining power through analytics."
"Furthermore, in May 2018, the IHME and WHO signed a memorandum of understanding, which noted that from 2019 there will be a single global burden of disease study published in the Lancet, rather than one produced by WHO and one by IHME. WHO has agreed to use IHME data in their own 2019-23 general programme of work and for their own estimates for burden of disease, and WHO data specialists will be seconded to the IHME."
"The agreement is also an indication of how the Gates Foundation has expanded its ownership of the measurement of global health problems into the heart of the foremost global health institution and ensured that only these data will be accepted globally. The Gates Foundation has guaranteed that its own preferred methodologies for measuring global health data take precedence."
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/11/28/global-health-disruptors-the-bill-and-melin
Some other articles of interest:
https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/
https://digital.newint.com.au/issues/3/articles/17
https://www.devex.com/news/big-concerns-over-gates-foundation-s-potential-to-bec | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 14:05 - Feb 4 with 1038 views | jackrmee |
Yeah I get that the vaccine will help stop you coughing, but if you're coughing then you should be isolating anyway, so that isn't even relevant.
Plus, isn't all medicl staff already vaccinated? So they are immune to the virus or won't give them bad symptoms, so why are they worried?
Doesn't make sense to me mate. If I've been vaccinated I won't have to worry about getting ill, so I won't give a toss about who I meet or whatever. | |
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| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 14:08 - Feb 4 with 1036 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 13:57 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
Bill Gates sells vaccines mate. I cant find rhe article now, but I read him saying about how they made a 21-1 profit on the other vaccines they are producing, to the tune of $200mil.
I'm not talking about coivd being a conspiracy.
I mean people take what WHO says for gospel, yet WHO are bankrolled by Bill Gates, who makes billions from pushing and selling vaccines.
Doesn't that bother anyone?
The people who are telling us what to do regarding covid, are in the debt and power of the people who will make the most money out of the vaccines. It's mental.
"The Gates foundation accounts for 45% of WHO’s funding from nongovernmental entities"
Lawrence Gostin said "“If a private foundation were to become WHO’s highest donor, it would be transformational,” "When WHO was formed as an intergovernmental organization, it “would have been unimaginable” that a private foundation could have such influence, he continued.
“It would enable a single rich philanthropist to set the global health agenda,” Gostin said, referring to Bill Gates, co-chair of the foundation."
https://www.devex.com/news/big-concerns-over-gates-foundation-s-potential-to-bec
"The Gates Foundation financially backs the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), part of the University of Washington, through an initial grant of $105m and a follow-up grant of $279m to produce global health data. IHME produces global burden of disease data, national estimates of health spending, and development assistance for health data. The IHME is required by the Gates Foundation to produce new estimates every year on the world’s health problems through the Global Burden of Disease study. The Gates Foundation uses these data to inform its funding portfolio. Never before has one institute had such a defining power through analytics."
"Furthermore, in May 2018, the IHME and WHO signed a memorandum of understanding, which noted that from 2019 there will be a single global burden of disease study published in the Lancet, rather than one produced by WHO and one by IHME. WHO has agreed to use IHME data in their own 2019-23 general programme of work and for their own estimates for burden of disease, and WHO data specialists will be seconded to the IHME."
"The agreement is also an indication of how the Gates Foundation has expanded its ownership of the measurement of global health problems into the heart of the foremost global health institution and ensured that only these data will be accepted globally. The Gates Foundation has guaranteed that its own preferred methodologies for measuring global health data take precedence."
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/11/28/global-health-disruptors-the-bill-and-melin
Some other articles of interest:
https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/
https://digital.newint.com.au/issues/3/articles/17
https://www.devex.com/news/big-concerns-over-gates-foundation-s-potential-to-bec |
He doesn't sell vaccines.
He's a philanthropist and that's a good thing. He is giving and has given a substantial amount of money away, yes to the WHO but to other organisations too. He doesn't make money out of it. | | | |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 14:13 - Feb 4 with 1034 views | Scotia |
| Who is going to refuse to be vaccinated? on 14:05 - Feb 4 by jackrmee |
Yeah I get that the vaccine will help stop you coughing, but if you're coughing then you should be isolating anyway, so that isn't even relevant.
Plus, isn't all medicl staff already vaccinated? So they are immune to the virus or won't give them bad symptoms, so why are they worried?
Doesn't make sense to me mate. If I've been vaccinated I won't have to worry about getting ill, so I won't give a toss about who I meet or whatever. |
What if the when you first start coughing you are on a train for a few hours, or in a supermarket or somewhere similar? Not everyone self isolates either.
They're vaccinated now but they haven't been before but surely we want to give them the best PPE anyway? If they develop even very mild symptoms after the vaccine then they'd have to isolate and couldn't work. | | | |
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