| Bristol City Match Fred 14:59 - Dec 1 with 41282 views | TheChef |
Fully expecting a defeat, but hope we can put in a decent performance over 90 minutes and get our reward for it. |  |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 14:52 - Dec 2 with 1363 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 21:29 - Dec 1 by karl |
Easiest thing to coach is spoiling, breaking up a game and stifling opponents till you get a break or conjure up a couple of moments on the counter.
Far harder is coaching quality passing, exciting movement and dominating a top 6 team with a young team.
It's exciting, it's entertaining and had me on the edge of my seat the whole half.
Do we need to stop the loss of concentration? Absolutely but so far we're looking at a 10 minute spell where we made one mistake in being slow to close down and resulted in a goal, uncertainty and lack of confidence we lose another very quickly.
Again we're the better team but unfortunately losing, this way we're developing players worth watching and importantly worth money. I'm definitely glass half full |
So am I but bit harsh on City to say they were good for only 10 minutes.
Wells hit the post and they should have scored after 5 min - easier chance than both Bonne and BOS misses. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 14:56 - Dec 2 with 1352 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 21:46 - Dec 1 by Gloucs_R |
General consensus....Warbs to stay or go? |
and that's a serious question is it? | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 14:58 - Dec 2 with 1344 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 21:48 - Dec 1 by kensalriser |
So are we back to sacking the manager after losing a couple of games by a single goal to teams higher in the table? |
Yep - apparently we are. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:01 - Dec 2 with 1342 views | BklynRanger |
I'd quite like a NeilSI or someone else with a good tactical understanding to explain how, when we give the ball away at the back, we seem to just immediately gape open like a big gapey thing.
It seems to be a fundamental flaw for a team that is occasionally going to do that based on the way we play.
Is it as simple as players looking to get forward, split centre backs, something like that?
It seems key that we stop those kind of meltdowns. That and players absolutely breaking their necks to stop a cross please for fcuk sake would be nice. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:03 - Dec 2 with 1337 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 22:00 - Dec 1 by joe90 |
Main takeaway from that is we need to think how we pace ourselves over 90mins. A strong first 30 isn't any good if we don't take our chances. Bristol only needed to make a few tactical changes, which proved effective.
I think we've got a decent team and they really showed what they can do, but we need to be more strategic and think how we build up the tempo. We went in too hard and when Bristol got the equaliser it took the wind out of our sails.
Once Bristol regrouped second half it became very difficult to pass through them like we had been doing, and by that point the game had gotten away from us. It happened second half against Rotherham as well. |
BUT 2nd half v Watford we were miles better than the 1st.
Don't think there is one simple answer tbh. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:09 - Dec 2 with 1325 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:01 - Dec 2 by BklynRanger |
I'd quite like a NeilSI or someone else with a good tactical understanding to explain how, when we give the ball away at the back, we seem to just immediately gape open like a big gapey thing.
It seems to be a fundamental flaw for a team that is occasionally going to do that based on the way we play.
Is it as simple as players looking to get forward, split centre backs, something like that?
It seems key that we stop those kind of meltdowns. That and players absolutely breaking their necks to stop a cross please for fcuk sake would be nice. |
Neil would certainly analyse it better than any of us, but it seems to be a combination of pushed-up full-backs and split centre-backs.
I don't have a problem with that as it's the major reason we're so good in attack (e.g. first half last night, which I thought was excellent) but sometimes we might want to dial it down from 11 to 10 maybe. We could maybe drop one of the holding midfielders deeper, evn just 5-10 yards. |  |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:17 - Dec 2 with 1301 views | TheChef |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:03 - Dec 2 by PinnerPaul |
BUT 2nd half v Watford we were miles better than the 1st.
Don't think there is one simple answer tbh. |
Arguably, it's putting the ball in the net when the chance presents itself. | |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:18 - Dec 2 with 1301 views | BostonR |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:01 - Dec 2 by BklynRanger |
I'd quite like a NeilSI or someone else with a good tactical understanding to explain how, when we give the ball away at the back, we seem to just immediately gape open like a big gapey thing.
It seems to be a fundamental flaw for a team that is occasionally going to do that based on the way we play.
Is it as simple as players looking to get forward, split centre backs, something like that?
It seems key that we stop those kind of meltdowns. That and players absolutely breaking their necks to stop a cross please for fcuk sake would be nice. |
It's simple really.
There is no defensive coaching or reaction training, to manage that situation - it's so obvious! When Clive interviewed MW, he got all prickly when pressed on defensive set-ups. His response was that defending is a collective set-up, which is bollocks!
Opposition managers know they can exploit that with us. Press us, force an error and play quick balls behind our back-four and you are in. The back four are often in possession on our 18yard line so the opposition take a chance and many have.
Of course, if the back four can move the ball quickly from their possession, it opens up space for us to exploit, which MW does really well. Our game works well if we keep possession. We are poor when we don't have the ball. Also, we do not have a Pearson type player who can sit-in and win it back as well as play, which he does really well. |  | | |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:28 - Dec 2 with 1266 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 14:19 - Dec 2 by Northernr |
Referee was excellent last night I thought. |
He often is, maybe a yellow for BC player (I AM awful at remembering oppo names!) who committed a similar foul to Dickie but the fact it was out on the wing probably saved him.
Brunt 'tackle' early on was pretty agricultural but the problem there is yellow card for that and then you're in full on Keith Stroud mode for the rest of the night!
He did as well as any do on added time as well - signalled 4 but played 5 1/2 because of BC 'injury' and sub. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:30 - Dec 2 with 1252 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 13:55 - Dec 2 by BrianMcCarthy |
Very good discussion, folks.
Can I just say that I have thought about our current situation, mulled it over, picked it apart and analysed it to within an inch of its life. And I haven't a clue. |
Yes it IS a good discussion - even those I disagree with!
Been on other oppo boards where any defeat is just met with foul abuse of players and the manager without any actual 'arguments' or points of view put forward - well done all! | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:34 - Dec 2 with 1237 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:17 - Dec 2 by TheChef |
Arguably, it's putting the ball in the net when the chance presents itself. |
Yes I agree, think that's the issue more than a simple 1st half v 2nd half.
Also a few matches ago ALL the defensive mistakes were down to set piece 'management' - tonight neither of their goals were from set pieces - we actually looked comfortable on those AND we score from one ourselves - another weak link that has been mentioned previously! | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:36 - Dec 2 with 1227 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:18 - Dec 2 by BostonR |
It's simple really.
There is no defensive coaching or reaction training, to manage that situation - it's so obvious! When Clive interviewed MW, he got all prickly when pressed on defensive set-ups. His response was that defending is a collective set-up, which is bollocks!
Opposition managers know they can exploit that with us. Press us, force an error and play quick balls behind our back-four and you are in. The back four are often in possession on our 18yard line so the opposition take a chance and many have.
Of course, if the back four can move the ball quickly from their possession, it opens up space for us to exploit, which MW does really well. Our game works well if we keep possession. We are poor when we don't have the ball. Also, we do not have a Pearson type player who can sit-in and win it back as well as play, which he does really well. |
MW was also adamant that they did do defensive coaching and was irate about any suggestions to the contrary. | |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:37 - Dec 2 with 1215 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:34 - Dec 2 by PinnerPaul |
Yes I agree, think that's the issue more than a simple 1st half v 2nd half.
Also a few matches ago ALL the defensive mistakes were down to set piece 'management' - tonight neither of their goals were from set pieces - we actually looked comfortable on those AND we score from one ourselves - another weak link that has been mentioned previously! |
I think we've been much better at set pieces at both ends than we were last year. I'm not sure if the stats back it up but it's a feeling I have. | |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:37 - Dec 2 with 1212 views | Northernr |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:28 - Dec 2 by PinnerPaul |
He often is, maybe a yellow for BC player (I AM awful at remembering oppo names!) who committed a similar foul to Dickie but the fact it was out on the wing probably saved him.
Brunt 'tackle' early on was pretty agricultural but the problem there is yellow card for that and then you're in full on Keith Stroud mode for the rest of the night!
He did as well as any do on added time as well - signalled 4 but played 5 1/2 because of BC 'injury' and sub. |
The only one I really raised an eyebrow at was Ball ankle tapping their guy on the ground and not getting a yellow. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:47 - Dec 2 with 1175 views | Mick_S |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:37 - Dec 2 by Northernr |
The only one I really raised an eyebrow at was Ball ankle tapping their guy on the ground and not getting a yellow. |
Did Dykes get a card when he helped one of their defenders into the upper Loft towards the end of the match? |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:47 - Dec 2 with 1169 views | Hunterhoop |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 14:48 - Dec 2 by francisbowles |
I'm a Warburton fan but the fact is his contract runs out at the end of the season.
The club will therefore need to make a decision. Either they think they need a change or they offer him a new contract. This could be decided around Christmas or could be deferred until nearer the end of the season.
If it is to be decided in December/ January then things need to pick up for them to be able to justify a new contract. If we are still around 17th, then they may decide to make a change to give a new manager the window.
If they defer the decision and then we still are around the bottom, at some point he will become 'dead man walking', the players will know it and will start looking after themselves rather than the team.
So, I would suggest the next few weeks results are very important. We must see an improvement in results. |
And the situation we must avoid is being in or around the relegation zone with 8-10 games left, with the players and the manager knowing the manager won’t be here next season. The good players will know regardless of outcome they’ll be in the Championship again next season. They won’t want to risk injury in case it prevents a move. The weaker/younger players will know a new manager could clean house and the current one is a sitting duck.
It’ll be nigh on impossible for any manager in that situation to have authority in the dressing room. It’ll be incredibly difficult to motivate and get results.
As you say, the next month is really important if you play the scenarios out for the rest of the season. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:58 - Dec 2 with 1141 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:37 - Dec 2 by Northernr |
The only one I really raised an eyebrow at was Ball ankle tapping their guy on the ground and not getting a yellow. |
Arsene Wenger defence on that one - didn't see/can't remember! | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 16:00 - Dec 2 with 1130 views | ted_hendrix |
Got to be the longest match thread in the history of longest match threads.
And not a word from Mbartos. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Bristol City Match Fred on 16:01 - Dec 2 with 1129 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:47 - Dec 2 by Mick_S |
Did Dykes get a card when he helped one of their defenders into the upper Loft towards the end of the match? |
No - forwards very rarely do in that situation.
Problem for refs there is that by awarding the free kick, for something that everyone has seen take place ON the goal line, you are disadvantaging the player fouled - GK far better for his team.
Yes I suppose you could technically play advantage, but looks messy to give the gaol kick and then book the attacking player. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 16:01 - Dec 2 with 1127 views | daveB |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:37 - Dec 2 by Northernr |
The only one I really raised an eyebrow at was Ball ankle tapping their guy on the ground and not getting a yellow. |
I thought Wells was lucky not to get sent off, got away without a booking for one tactical foul on Bright no different to what Dickie was booked for then he later got booked for kicking the ball away.
Overall though the ref had a good game |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 16:21 - Dec 2 with 1092 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 16:01 - Dec 2 by daveB |
I thought Wells was lucky not to get sent off, got away without a booking for one tactical foul on Bright no different to what Dickie was booked for then he later got booked for kicking the ball away.
Overall though the ref had a good game |
Yep that's the one it WAS Wells, you're right! 
See above for rationale why that wasn't a yellow. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 17:16 - Dec 2 with 1036 views | joe90 |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 15:03 - Dec 2 by PinnerPaul |
BUT 2nd half v Watford we were miles better than the 1st.
Don't think there is one simple answer tbh. |
Very different when you're chasing the game as we were against Watford.
Agree, there isn't a simple answer. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 17:27 - Dec 2 with 1016 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 17:16 - Dec 2 by joe90 |
Very different when you're chasing the game as we were against Watford.
Agree, there isn't a simple answer. |
Fair point Joe. | | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 17:41 - Dec 2 with 996 views | nix |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 14:28 - Dec 2 by TheChef |
More experience really is key. I was looking at our starting line up last night:
Dieng (new to regular 1st team football)
Kakay (new to regular 1st team football)
Dickie (new to the Championship)
Barbet (Championship player)
Wallace (new to the Championship)
Carroll (Championship player)
Ball (some Championship experience?)
Willock (new to the Championship)
Chair (Championship player)
BOS (Championship player)
Dykes (new to the Championship)
So that's four out of eleven with some kind of regular Championship experience, and I'd say only Carroll out of those has played regularly over the last two or three seasons.
It's a work in progress, if we can survive this season and keep most of this squad together, add a bit more quality/experience (i.e. at least one nasty bstard a la Derry), then yes next season we should expect to do better. But for now it's working hard to stay in the Championship. |
I agree with this and of those only three of those four have regularly played together: BOS, Chair and Barbet. Defensively, playing regularly is an important ingredient in consistency and gelling together, and arguably up front too, because they learn where and when someone is going to make a run. At the moment, Dykes and Bonne are in the six yard box when Bright, Chair and Willock cross it to the penalty spot and vice versa.
Comparing with last night's Bristol City team, only Semenyo hasn't got that much Championship experience. And Martin, Mariappa and Vyner haven't played that much for Bristol City but the former two have vast experience which makes them more likely to hit the ground running.
Especially given they haven't got much time on the training ground and we didn't have a long pre-season it's going to impact teams that haven't played together much or in the Championship much more than those who have, it puts our performances to date into perspective. If we can stay up, and keep most of these players, and possibly improve the squad with a couple of defenders/DMs, we're in a much stronger position next season. |  | | |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 17:46 - Dec 2 with 988 views | TacticalR |
| Bristol City Match Fred on 13:55 - Dec 2 by TacticalR |
@ted_hendrix 'We'll just continue letting in 2 goals per game in the vain hope that eventually we'll start scoring 3 goals per game and actually start winning games for once, (scoring 3 goals per game-LOL) sorry got a bit carried away there.'
Actually, I am not sure that this is such a vain hope. Or to put it another way, maybe it's our only hope, because we are back to conceding 2 goals a game.
Sherlock Holmes: 'How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?' |
Coming back to this...
Two out of our four wins so far this season, have been 3-2 wins (against Cardiff and Rotherham). [Post edited 2 Dec 2020 17:46]
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