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don't know about write off but he's still only 20. Needs another League 1/2 loan.
'What does Nahki wells do for us? Get us to 11th as opposed to 15th?'
Unless you think Lee Hoos is incompetent I don't think it's going to ruin our accounts. I would love a top half finish rather than another dreary 18th place, and it could always be more.
'We won one match in August and the owners probably got excited about promotion and decided to bolster the squad'
Pure conjecture, last season's signings may have looked like a panic but I don't think it's coincidental Wells signed after we sold Luongo today.
I don’t think Lee Hoos is incompetent. I think our owners lack discipline to stick with a strategy.
And it’s not about ruining our accounts. One loan deal will not screw us over financially. But we are a team with limited resources. A million spent today is a million we can’t spend next year, perhaps when we’re closer to making a true playoff push.
And unlike an actual signing which provides us with an opportunity to sell on and recoup the cost or make a profit, you can never recoup loan money.
As for the being depressed point from an earlier poster- yes, you’re right. I’m being overly dramatic. But I am very disappointed with what I believe to be a lack of a long term strategy. Starting to feel like the Redknapp season of Austin Zamora Doyle Maiga Keane
I don’t think Lee Hoos is incompetent. I think our owners lack discipline to stick with a strategy.
And it’s not about ruining our accounts. One loan deal will not screw us over financially. But we are a team with limited resources. A million spent today is a million we can’t spend next year, perhaps when we’re closer to making a true playoff push.
And unlike an actual signing which provides us with an opportunity to sell on and recoup the cost or make a profit, you can never recoup loan money.
As for the being depressed point from an earlier poster- yes, you’re right. I’m being overly dramatic. But I am very disappointed with what I believe to be a lack of a long term strategy. Starting to feel like the Redknapp season of Austin Zamora Doyle Maiga Keane
For me, this year is still about making sure we stay up, which I am feeling more and more positive about. I think we are incredibly light up front if Hugill is injured or if we want to switch up playing styles/go for broke late in a match. Wells solves that.
Agree that the deal for the Brighton lad looks odd in hindsight though
When are people going to understand. Manning and Smythe did not come from our academy.Nor did Chair or Eze. Furlong is the only player that has come out of our academy for donkey's years. We released 5 ex academy players this year as not good enough.
When are people going to understand. Manning and Smythe did not come from our academy.Nor did Chair or Eze. Furlong is the only player that has come out of our academy for donkey's years. We released 5 ex academy players this year as not good enough.
When are people going to understand. Manning and Smythe did not come from our academy.Nor did Chair or Eze. Furlong is the only player that has come out of our academy for donkey's years. We released 5 ex academy players this year as not good enough.
Technically you’re right, but it’s a meaningless distinction.
Smyth, Manning, Eze, Chair, Lumley are technically not from our academies. But for all intents and purposes, they are: we took players with zero professional appearances to their name, developed them in our U23 set up and brought them into the first team (if you want to be pedantic, you will point out that Smyth and Manning played in Ireland, but I think you get the gist of my point; Manning was in our u23 for 2 years before he made an appearance)
I always thought Wells looked quite good when he came deep and linked the play. Eye for a pass and good distribution. Maybe could play the 10 role beinnd Hugill. We saw early on in his first loan he had a good work rate so could maybe replace Scowen and be a more attack threat. I think Warburton has played higher up the pitch to help with closing down
I don’t think Lee Hoos is incompetent. I think our owners lack discipline to stick with a strategy.
And it’s not about ruining our accounts. One loan deal will not screw us over financially. But we are a team with limited resources. A million spent today is a million we can’t spend next year, perhaps when we’re closer to making a true playoff push.
And unlike an actual signing which provides us with an opportunity to sell on and recoup the cost or make a profit, you can never recoup loan money.
As for the being depressed point from an earlier poster- yes, you’re right. I’m being overly dramatic. But I am very disappointed with what I believe to be a lack of a long term strategy. Starting to feel like the Redknapp season of Austin Zamora Doyle Maiga Keane
I sort of agree with that first point but surely it's last chance saloon now for any future strategy. I'm not crazy about having 5 loan deals but we're never going to sign anyone of the quality of Amos as circumstances are. Every team in the Championship is going to be dependent on loans to some degree.
If we have even a decent season there could be any number of players we could sell for much higher fees than we got them for. Eze, Bright, maybe Chair in a season or two. Lumley or Barbet if they have good seasons under this management. Masterton in the future, etc. Those are all players with much higher potential than someone like Oteh as it stands now. Loans would be difficult to replace but not impossible if we're selling. Obviously survival is the main goal but a higher finish and attractive football would potentially make us a more attractive prospect for players in the future, provide more season-ticket holders and spectators and therefore a bit more money.
The division is weaker this year and it'll probably only get weaker as FFP bites. Unless you're Derby.
“The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.â€
Not sure about the wages or our accounts, but from a footballing point of view we are going to need more options up front than we currently have over a 46 game season. If you can get the best out of him he's pretty decent.
Technically you’re right, but it’s a meaningless distinction.
Smyth, Manning, Eze, Chair, Lumley are technically not from our academies. But for all intents and purposes, they are: we took players with zero professional appearances to their name, developed them in our U23 set up and brought them into the first team (if you want to be pedantic, you will point out that Smyth and Manning played in Ireland, but I think you get the gist of my point; Manning was in our u23 for 2 years before he made an appearance)
I have never heard Liverpool say Sterling isn’t from their academy. Lumley was 15 when he joined QPR,Smyth and Manning out of Irish football, 17/18, Eze and Chair 16/17, for me, all developed at QPR.
For me, this year is still about making sure we stay up, which I am feeling more and more positive about. I think we are incredibly light up front if Hugill is injured or if we want to switch up playing styles/go for broke late in a match. Wells solves that.
Agree that the deal for the Brighton lad looks odd in hindsight though
I agree . Thi is a season to do two things really, no three things
1. Stay up (comfortably) 2. Bring back that winning feeling/mentality to the team and supporters and then 3. Set up team for a proper go at playoffs/ promotion next season
I agree . Thi is a season to do two things really, no three things
1. Stay up (comfortably) 2. Bring back that winning feeling/mentality to the team and supporters and then 3. Set up team for a proper go at playoffs/ promotion next season
And getting back to playing the rangers way... With the ball on the floor
Had a bit more time to mull this over today and with Oteh seemingly out of the 1st team picture, I'm pretty pleased we've got Wells to compete with Hugill and Malarkey as back up. With obvious caveats of...
1) The % of his wages and loan fee are both reasonable and we've not spent money just because we happen to have some now 2) There's a chance we can make this perm if it all goes well and he's up for it (I understand he's in his last year, right?) 3) We don't do a McClaren and decide to throw out the system we've been working on all summer to suddenly play both 1st team quality strikers at the same time
I'm fairly confident we won't do number 3 and this will be another example of 2 first-team players for each position to encourage competition and have good cover i.e. Rangel/Kane, Wallace/Manning, Amos/Smith, Lumley/Kelly, etc
Agreed there are some comments on the thread saying we will be paying too much for this loan because of the salary Wells is on at Burnley. Well I credit Hoos with far more intelligence and think we are only doing this if it comes within our agreed summer transfer budget which includes salarys for loans.
This may well have been a last minute deal where Burnley no longer required his services and Wells wanted to come back to the Rs so the two clubs have agreed an amicable amount of his salary that we will be paying. Fortunately I don't think they had us over a barrel with this one for a change and we may well be paying the maximum our current pay structure allows. Anyway it's all conjecture as its undisclosed but I'm pleased he's come back on his day he is a very good Championship players just don't let him take a penalty.....
I don’t think Lee Hoos is incompetent. I think our owners lack discipline to stick with a strategy.
And it’s not about ruining our accounts. One loan deal will not screw us over financially. But we are a team with limited resources. A million spent today is a million we can’t spend next year, perhaps when we’re closer to making a true playoff push.
And unlike an actual signing which provides us with an opportunity to sell on and recoup the cost or make a profit, you can never recoup loan money.
As for the being depressed point from an earlier poster- yes, you’re right. I’m being overly dramatic. But I am very disappointed with what I believe to be a lack of a long term strategy. Starting to feel like the Redknapp season of Austin Zamora Doyle Maiga Keane
I’m genuinely gutted about this signing. Absolutely depressed
We’re playing a 4-2-3-1. Do we really need another striker when we already have a good one in hugill as well as the Brighton player? Are we really going to write off Oteh?
With the team we have, and the Lack of quality in this division, we’re likely to stay up. What does Nahki wells do for us? Get us to 11th as opposed to 15th?
But what is the cost? It’s been reported that his wages were abt 50k a week. I assume we’re not paying all of his wages, but I suspect we’re at least eating half. Hugill, Pugh, Brighton loanee, Wells are not part of our long term plans but are going to eat minutes away from the likes of Bright, Shodipo, Eze, Chair and Oteh (some of whom will be part of the future)
As for resigning Wells, I believe he’s a free agent in the summer, which puts us in a catch22. If he plays really well, that’ll drive up his asking price and we’ll likely lose out to the deeper pocketed clubs in this division (Leeds, Forest, Derby, Fulham etc). If he produces a similar return this year as last, perhaps we can afford him- but would we really want him?
We won one match in August and the owners probably got excited about promotion and decided to bolster the squad. But In a years time, Wells, Hugill, Amos, Smith, Brighton lad will all be back at their parent clubs and we’ll be in the same position.
Pathetic
I'd be truly amazed if Wells is on £50k a week at Burnley. They are a really well run club and they aren't going to be paying a reserve/fringe player (as that's what he is to them pretty much) that sort of wedge.
You have to remember they signed him from Huddersfield the summer Huddersfield got promoted before they got the Premier League riches so I'd imagine he wasn't earning big bucks there (£10k a week tops?). He would have increased his salary going to Burnley but not as much as £50k per week.
We’re skint. We shouldn’t have the luxury of three premier league loanees at striker. If Hugill gets injured and Mlakar isn’t cut for it, we go to Oteh, move Bright to striker, recall Smyth, pluck a lad from the academy, which is what the Millwalls and Rotherham’s of the world would do.
Bear in mind, if the hypothetical you posed does come true, we can still always bolster the squad in January.
It just seems premature/excessive to sign a Premier league striker on a massive wage for a rainy day and a marginal improvement in league position.
Any money we saved in selling Luongo has been offset by this loan.
I was in almost exactly this camp when I first heard about the move, I thought it was gratuitous and a bit of a piss-take to plead poverty but get ANOTHER PL loan. I am still in the 'make do' rather than 'double down' mindset.
But a few points, some of which have already been highlighted...
- Oteh isn't ready, saw him in pre-season and Warburton has had a good look. He didn't list Oteh in his available strikers so he's clearly going back to U23's or on loan. That leaves 2 strikers MW feels are 1st team quality, which isn't enough - MW has had time to look at Malakay properly and perhaps he feels although he's able to do a job in support, if Hugill got injured, etc than relying on him would be too much for the lad and he wants a more proven option as back up / competition - Wells is proven to us, in terms of character, ability and whatever else. He's known, the younger lads connected with him and he wants to come here even when he had other options (same as Cameron) - He will be good and suits the style we want to play, you have to think with his ability and movement that he can do even better than last year under a mostly negative style - He won't cost as much as last season - this is a fair amount of speculation, but he's in his last year, it was on deadline day with Burnley keen to shift him and it's not a knee jerk reaction to us losing our first 4 games and only having Matt Smith to pick
All in all I think the good outweighs the bad here.
When are people going to understand. Manning and Smythe did not come from our academy.Nor did Chair or Eze. Furlong is the only player that has come out of our academy for donkey's years. We released 5 ex academy players this year as not good enough.
When are people going to realise that you don't need a picture of a player in a QPR tracksuit at 6 years old for that person to be considered a QPR product. If you come here and enter our youth system it's because you're not ready for professional football.
If we spend X years getting you ready and then you play in our first team, we can take credit for the development.
You can talk about Furs being the only 'true' example if you like, but pre-Langley we couldn't even sign a 17 year old academy lad and get him into our squad, so stop looking for a negative where it doesn't exist and be happy that we have a system and the personnel to turn potential into players at a rate we haven't seen for decades.
When are people going to realise that you don't need a picture of a player in a QPR tracksuit at 6 years old for that person to be considered a QPR product. If you come here and enter our youth system it's because you're not ready for professional football.
If we spend X years getting you ready and then you play in our first team, we can take credit for the development.
You can talk about Furs being the only 'true' example if you like, but pre-Langley we couldn't even sign a 17 year old academy lad and get him into our squad, so stop looking for a negative where it doesn't exist and be happy that we have a system and the personnel to turn potential into players at a rate we haven't seen for decades.
That's a great point simmo - youth development isn't just about players coming through an academy but a wider and longer term approach to talent development.
How many times have you read about a pro playing talking about being discarded from an academy for not fitting one of their specific requirements? More than one way to skin a cat
I was in almost exactly this camp when I first heard about the move, I thought it was gratuitous and a bit of a piss-take to plead poverty but get ANOTHER PL loan. I am still in the 'make do' rather than 'double down' mindset.
But a few points, some of which have already been highlighted...
- Oteh isn't ready, saw him in pre-season and Warburton has had a good look. He didn't list Oteh in his available strikers so he's clearly going back to U23's or on loan. That leaves 2 strikers MW feels are 1st team quality, which isn't enough - MW has had time to look at Malakay properly and perhaps he feels although he's able to do a job in support, if Hugill got injured, etc than relying on him would be too much for the lad and he wants a more proven option as back up / competition - Wells is proven to us, in terms of character, ability and whatever else. He's known, the younger lads connected with him and he wants to come here even when he had other options (same as Cameron) - He will be good and suits the style we want to play, you have to think with his ability and movement that he can do even better than last year under a mostly negative style - He won't cost as much as last season - this is a fair amount of speculation, but he's in his last year, it was on deadline day with Burnley keen to shift him and it's not a knee jerk reaction to us losing our first 4 games and only having Matt Smith to pick
All in all I think the good outweighs the bad here.
[Post edited 9 Aug 2019 11:20]
Agree with all of this - was a bit surprised at first, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense.
If this was any other position on the pitch, then getting a third Premier League loanee and bumping our own young player down the pecking order would be mad, but given Mlakar and Oteh's inexperience it's clear that more depth up front would be useful. Imagine if we hadn't signed Wells and Hugill suddenly loses form - we'd all be screaming at MW, LH and LF for leaving us reliant on a loanee who's barely played in England before and an U23 graduate.
We were always going to have to loan someone rather than buy, Wells knows the club, has a decent track record here, and a point to prove (particularly with his contract ending). Burnley were obviously keen to shift him, so we would have had decent leverage in negotiating his wages.
All of our transfers this summer have had to involve an element of risk - if these players were guaranteed Championship quality with no question marks or downside whatsoever, then they wouldn't be available on a free, or they'd already have been snatched up by other clubs.
I guess whether or not you think we're taking the right risks with the players we've signed depends how much faith you have in the management team... for me, this one seems like a decent bet.
I have always loved that song title and now I have an excuse for using it. Delighted Nakhi is back
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
I personally think its good that players still want to come here. Amazed Cameron and Wells both have come back and actually chose us. Its a good sign for the training camp at least, must be a good morale
I’m genuinely gutted about this signing. Absolutely depressed
We’re playing a 4-2-3-1. Do we really need another striker when we already have a good one in hugill as well as the Brighton player? Are we really going to write off Oteh?
With the team we have, and the Lack of quality in this division, we’re likely to stay up. What does Nahki wells do for us? Get us to 11th as opposed to 15th?
But what is the cost? It’s been reported that his wages were abt 50k a week. I assume we’re not paying all of his wages, but I suspect we’re at least eating half. Hugill, Pugh, Brighton loanee, Wells are not part of our long term plans but are going to eat minutes away from the likes of Bright, Shodipo, Eze, Chair and Oteh (some of whom will be part of the future)
As for resigning Wells, I believe he’s a free agent in the summer, which puts us in a catch22. If he plays really well, that’ll drive up his asking price and we’ll likely lose out to the deeper pocketed clubs in this division (Leeds, Forest, Derby, Fulham etc). If he produces a similar return this year as last, perhaps we can afford him- but would we really want him?
We won one match in August and the owners probably got excited about promotion and decided to bolster the squad. But In a years time, Wells, Hugill, Amos, Smith, Brighton lad will all be back at their parent clubs and we’ll be in the same position.
Pathetic
IF he's a free agent in the summer, 'price' won't go anywhere.
Clue is somewhere in the term free agent!
Today MW announced that Malaker has a slight injury - just goes to prove you need a squad - we're only 1 game in.
By the way, Clive, get ready to start comparing squad sizes on the back of programs once more.
We needed multiple windows and a transfer ban to clear out all of the deadweight in our squad. We are now back to having 28 first team players. And this assumes that no promising academy player breaks into the first team (eg Bettache, Bansal McNulty) as Manning, Smyth and Furlong did in recent years
Of the 28, some of these players may still get a move (Leistner), or go out on loan (Kakay, Hämäläinen). But that’s still a sh*tload of players and you can still only play 11 men and use 3 subs.
The performance against Stoke was really promising, and I do believe this team will be the best team we’ve had in a few years (though many of the quality players will be back to their parent clubs next year).
But let’s call it what it is: this club has no long term vision, nor the discipline to implement one and stick with it
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