| Who will be the next prime minister? 11:24 - May 5 with 7825 views | Lord_Bony |
Looks like it will be between Jeremy corbyn versus Boris Johnson or Michael Gove
The labour party look unelectable corbyn is remain but is willing to push through brexit but Johnson and gove are hardline brexiteers. What a shambles.
Brexit will be delivered before the election and it is the task of the new government to see it all go through smoothly, not an easy task.. |  |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:06 - May 5 with 1446 views | Highjack |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:30 - May 5 by bluey_the_blue |
Under Blair, Labour appealed to all and won elections. Can't stand the guy, but he was far more in tune with what the public wanted than Corbyn is or ever will be. |
I don’t think Blair either appealed to everyone or was in tune with the public.
After 18 years of Tory fatigue and John major being the only boy in history boring enough to run away from the circus to join a firm of accountants it was inevitable he’d win. |  |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:08 - May 5 with 1444 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:06 - May 5 by Highjack |
I don’t think Blair either appealed to everyone or was in tune with the public.
After 18 years of Tory fatigue and John major being the only boy in history boring enough to run away from the circus to join a firm of accountants it was inevitable he’d win. |
Win, sure.
Winning repeatedly on the other hand...
Blair realised the bleeding obvious that Corbyn and others are burying their heads in the sand over. Win the centrist vote, you'll win GEs. Extremes at both edges are firmly entrenched, it's that middle ground you can reach out to. |  | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:11 - May 5 with 1442 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:06 - May 5 by Highjack |
I don’t think Blair either appealed to everyone or was in tune with the public.
After 18 years of Tory fatigue and John major being the only boy in history boring enough to run away from the circus to join a firm of accountants it was inevitable he’d win. |
Three times? With thumping majorities? |  |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:35 - May 5 with 1431 views | Highjack |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:11 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy |
Three times? With thumping majorities? |
By that logic do you believe thatcher appealed to everyone and was in tune with what the public wanted? | |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:42 - May 5 with 1424 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:35 - May 5 by Highjack |
By that logic do you believe thatcher appealed to everyone and was in tune with what the public wanted? |
At the time she appealed to more people than anyone else did, yes. That’s why she won in the way she did. | | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:44 - May 5 with 1423 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:35 - May 5 by Highjack |
By that logic do you believe thatcher appealed to everyone and was in tune with what the public wanted? |
Compared to Labour at that time, yes.
Thatcher appealed to the aspirational working class. | | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:46 - May 5 with 1422 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:35 - May 5 by Highjack |
By that logic do you believe thatcher appealed to everyone and was in tune with what the public wanted? |
Nobody appeals to everyone (that was Bluey’s phrase not mine) but yes, despite what I think of her there’s no doubt that Thatcher appealed to a large cross section and not just traditional Tory voters. You don’t win three elections like both Thatcher and Blair did by only appealing to your party’s traditional base. [Post edited 5 May 2019 19:46]
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:50 - May 5 with 1417 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:46 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy |
Nobody appeals to everyone (that was Bluey’s phrase not mine) but yes, despite what I think of her there’s no doubt that Thatcher appealed to a large cross section and not just traditional Tory voters. You don’t win three elections like both Thatcher and Blair did by only appealing to your party’s traditional base. [Post edited 5 May 2019 19:46]
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I actually wrote "appealed to all" - was clumsy English, that. Intended to to read more along the lines of "appealed to all demographics" or similar. He picked up left, right, central votes.
As you say, you win by picking up votes outside your base. Blair did that with centrists and dare I say it, appealed to some natural Tory voters. Thatcher won by picking up working class votes.
Corbyn and Milne don't grasp that, centrists are evil and forget about looking to get Tory voters onside... they want traditional Labour voters on and let's get some from far left if possible. | | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 21:33 - May 5 with 1370 views | longlostjack |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:46 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy |
Nobody appeals to everyone (that was Bluey’s phrase not mine) but yes, despite what I think of her there’s no doubt that Thatcher appealed to a large cross section and not just traditional Tory voters. You don’t win three elections like both Thatcher and Blair did by only appealing to your party’s traditional base. [Post edited 5 May 2019 19:46]
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She’d never have won three terms had it not been for a classic piece of Tory foreign policy incompetence for which Carrington resigned. |  |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 21:36 - May 5 with 1368 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 21:33 - May 5 by longlostjack |
She’d never have won three terms had it not been for a classic piece of Tory foreign policy incompetence for which Carrington resigned. |
She’d have still won in 83, Falklands or no Falklands. The majority wouldn’t have been as thumping without the invasion, granted. | |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:07 - May 5 with 1346 views | longlostjack |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 21:36 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy |
She’d have still won in 83, Falklands or no Falklands. The majority wouldn’t have been as thumping without the invasion, granted. |
I’m sure that she was trailing in the opinion polls prior to the Falklands? She was also deeply unpopular within her own Party and the knives were being sharpened. | |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:11 - May 5 with 1338 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:07 - May 5 by longlostjack |
I’m sure that she was trailing in the opinion polls prior to the Falklands? She was also deeply unpopular within her own Party and the knives were being sharpened. |
She was up against Michael Foot and a Labour Party that makes today’s look organised. She’d have won. | |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:14 - May 5 with 1333 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:07 - May 5 by longlostjack |
I’m sure that she was trailing in the opinion polls prior to the Falklands? She was also deeply unpopular within her own Party and the knives were being sharpened. |
There's a reason Foot's manifesto was known as the longest political suicide note.
I felt sorry for Foot. Had a great intellect but zero charisma, zero connection with the times. | | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:17 - May 5 with 1326 views | sherpajacob |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:14 - May 5 by bluey_the_blue |
There's a reason Foot's manifesto was known as the longest political suicide note.
I felt sorry for Foot. Had a great intellect but zero charisma, zero connection with the times. |
"There's a reason Foot's manifesto was known as the longest political suicide note."
It contained a,commitment to leave the EU/common market. |  |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:19 - May 5 with 1323 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:17 - May 5 by sherpajacob |
"There's a reason Foot's manifesto was known as the longest political suicide note."
It contained a,commitment to leave the EU/common market. |
That wasn't the main problem with the manifesto by a long chalk. | | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:19 - May 5 with 1323 views | longlostjack |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 22:11 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy |
She was up against Michael Foot and a Labour Party that makes today’s look organised. She’d have won. |
You’re forgetting the SDP who were well ahead of both Labour and the Tories in the polls at the end of 1981. They were interesting times. High unemployment and double digit inflation. | |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:08 - May 6 with 1205 views | Lohengrin |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 21:36 - May 5 by exiledclaseboy |
She’d have still won in 83, Falklands or no Falklands. The majority wouldn’t have been as thumping without the invasion, granted. |
I’m far from convinced that would have been the case. I think you’re underestimating just how unpopular she was until Galtieri took on the role of her Head of PR. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:48 - May 6 with 1178 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:08 - May 6 by Lohengrin |
I’m far from convinced that would have been the case. I think you’re underestimating just how unpopular she was until Galtieri took on the role of her Head of PR. |
I’m not. I remember it, those years were the formative years of my interest in politics. I know she was massively unpopular for a time, but I’m far from convinced that she’d have lost to Labour in the form in which it existed at the time. The Tory majority would have been significantly lower than the 130odd it turned out to be but they’d have still won in ‘83 in my view. | |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:53 - May 6 with 1173 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:48 - May 6 by exiledclaseboy |
I’m not. I remember it, those years were the formative years of my interest in politics. I know she was massively unpopular for a time, but I’m far from convinced that she’d have lost to Labour in the form in which it existed at the time. The Tory majority would have been significantly lower than the 130odd it turned out to be but they’d have still won in ‘83 in my view. |
Ditto.
People fail to realise exactly how bad the Labour manifesto was in 1983. It was basically re-nationalise every damn thing going, stop working class buying their homes etc. Add in losing MPs to SDP, Tories would have won.
From memory didn't Foot insist all the policies were collected from conference? Hence you had crazy stuff like unilateral nuclear disarmament...
Irony is, without that failure, Labour wouldn't have had Kinnock and Smith dealing with the batsh1t crazy lefty loonies that would go on to make the party electable under Blair. | | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:59 - May 6 with 1162 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:53 - May 6 by bluey_the_blue |
Ditto.
People fail to realise exactly how bad the Labour manifesto was in 1983. It was basically re-nationalise every damn thing going, stop working class buying their homes etc. Add in losing MPs to SDP, Tories would have won.
From memory didn't Foot insist all the policies were collected from conference? Hence you had crazy stuff like unilateral nuclear disarmament...
Irony is, without that failure, Labour wouldn't have had Kinnock and Smith dealing with the batsh1t crazy lefty loonies that would go on to make the party electable under Blair. |
Go back and read the 1983 Labour manifesto now, Bluey. It’s nothing like as extreme as you’re painting it. Yes, it’s “socialist” and when you compare it to Thatcher’s Keith Joseph inspired extreme monetarism it’s almost the polar opposite. But it’s hardly the communist manifesto and wasn’t a million miles away from what you’d expect from a pre-Kinnock Labour manifesto.
It also advocated withdrawal from the EEC. The nationalisation programme proposed was to reverse the very recent privatisations so not especially radical there either.
And the right to buy policy was an ill conceived disaster which we are still reaping the impacts of 35 years on.
There was also a proposal for tighter controls and who and what banks would lend and for a national minimum wage. Neither of those would be seen as outlandish these days.
http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml [Post edited 6 May 2019 19:05]
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:11 - May 6 with 1146 views | exiledclaseboy |
Taken directly from Labour’s 1983 manifesto. Sounds awfully familiar. 
On taking office we will open preliminary negotiations with the other EEC member states to establish a timetable for withdrawal; and we will publish the results of these negotiations in a White Paper. In addition, as soon as possible after the House assembles, we will introduce a Repeal Bill: first, in order to amend the 1972 European Communities Act, ending the powers of the Community in the UK; and second, to provide the necessary powers to repeal the 1972 Act, when the negotiations on withdrawal are completed.
Following the publication of the White Paper, we will begin the main negotiations on withdrawal. Later, when appropriate and in the same parliament, we will use our powers to repeal the 1972 Act and abrogate the Treaty of Accession - thus breaking all of our formal links with the Community. Britain will at this point withdraw from the Council of Ministers and from the European Parliament.
There will need to be a period of transition, to ensure a minimum of disruption - and to phase in any new agreements we might make with the Community. This will enable us to make all the necessary changes in our domestic legislation. Until these changes in UK law have taken place, the status quo as regards particular items of EEC legislation will remain. And this period will, of course, extend beyond the date when we cease, formally, to be members. | |
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| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:17 - May 6 with 1141 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 18:59 - May 6 by exiledclaseboy |
Go back and read the 1983 Labour manifesto now, Bluey. It’s nothing like as extreme as you’re painting it. Yes, it’s “socialist” and when you compare it to Thatcher’s Keith Joseph inspired extreme monetarism it’s almost the polar opposite. But it’s hardly the communist manifesto and wasn’t a million miles away from what you’d expect from a pre-Kinnock Labour manifesto.
It also advocated withdrawal from the EEC. The nationalisation programme proposed was to reverse the very recent privatisations so not especially radical there either.
And the right to buy policy was an ill conceived disaster which we are still reaping the impacts of 35 years on.
There was also a proposal for tighter controls and who and what banks would lend and for a national minimum wage. Neither of those would be seen as outlandish these days.
http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml [Post edited 6 May 2019 19:05]
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Didn't say it was "communist".
It still indicates the loony left ethos at the time. Get rid of nukes whilst everyone else keeps theirs because that'll be us making an example and they'll then all follow. Nuclear power? Evil - keep the coal mines wtih sh1tty working practices open ( and that would have led to worse co2 emissions, so hated these days ).
Lots of commitments there - and it's actually interesting to see how many have occurred over time organically. Lots of spending commitments there and very, very vague of details of how they'd be paid for.
The main problem is it's promising the earth whilst acknowledging it's unrealistic. 1983 was of course also he time Degsy Hatton started gaining far more influence in Liverpool... I'd postulate that Foot's manifesto emboldened many.
It's also interesting that there appear quite a few similarities between Foots policies and Corbyns. | | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:18 - May 6 with 1140 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:11 - May 6 by exiledclaseboy |
Taken directly from Labour’s 1983 manifesto. Sounds awfully familiar.
On taking office we will open preliminary negotiations with the other EEC member states to establish a timetable for withdrawal; and we will publish the results of these negotiations in a White Paper. In addition, as soon as possible after the House assembles, we will introduce a Repeal Bill: first, in order to amend the 1972 European Communities Act, ending the powers of the Community in the UK; and second, to provide the necessary powers to repeal the 1972 Act, when the negotiations on withdrawal are completed.
Following the publication of the White Paper, we will begin the main negotiations on withdrawal. Later, when appropriate and in the same parliament, we will use our powers to repeal the 1972 Act and abrogate the Treaty of Accession - thus breaking all of our formal links with the Community. Britain will at this point withdraw from the Council of Ministers and from the European Parliament.
There will need to be a period of transition, to ensure a minimum of disruption - and to phase in any new agreements we might make with the Community. This will enable us to make all the necessary changes in our domestic legislation. Until these changes in UK law have taken place, the status quo as regards particular items of EEC legislation will remain. And this period will, of course, extend beyond the date when we cease, formally, to be members. |
That's the only bit I agree with from that manifesto!  | | | |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:23 - May 6 with 1136 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Who will be the next prime minister? on 19:18 - May 6 by bluey_the_blue |
That's the only bit I agree with from that manifesto! |
You only agree with that bit as you seem to think it’s our membership of the EU that enables British companies to outsource to India... | | | |
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