Forum | Young Players by NW10Hoop |

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread

Young Players 23:07 - May 1 with 4780 views

We thought it may be the case this season, but looks even more likely next season that we're going to have to rely on a lot of our younger players. And our fanbase seems to be split down the middle between those that call out poor performances of our young, and those that think they need to be protected from this and nurtured a little more

I definitely don't like fans tearing into players either at games or online - I think we need to SUPPORT them as much as possible, but is there a danger that we are too protective, or hold many of them in too high esteem? How much nurture does a player need to be a decent Championship player? Don't they just need to have the correct attributes and attitude?

There are young players playing at higher levels with higher pressure than having to achieve a mid table finish in the Championship yet many of us (I include myself) jump to the defence of players like Joe Lumley, Darnell Furlong and Ebere Eze when they go through prolonged periods of indifferent form.

Not quite sure what point I'm trying to make is, but I suppose I'm interested to know how long you all think these players along with Chair, Smyth, Manning, Shodipo etc will be considered young players being developed, and when you'd say they are the finished article - as good as they are capable of being.

[Post edited 1 May 2019 23:23]

Young Players on 23:39 - May 1 with 4703 views

ozexile

Good post and a subject I got shot down on on here not too long ago. I think they're too protected for sure. Lumley is 24, is that right? Hardly young for professional sport.
I believe the league set up is wrong though. It should be u18's then u21's then release or playing regularly.

U23 is not required in my opinion.
I remember having dawes, hucker and neil and Mcdonald as mainstays in our defence and they were youngsters. Just my opinion though before everyone starts talking about Ian wright etc being a late developer.

Young Players on 08:45 - May 2 with 4572 views

NW10Hoop

Young Players on 23:39 - May 1 by ozexile

There’ll always be the Ian Wrights and Jamie Vardys as the odd example, and I get that players reading of the game improves with time - centre backs don’t seem to peak until well into their mid twenties.

But a couple of extreme examples at the top of football - Mbappe and Jon Stones - these guys are probably still to reach their peak, but they’re already good enough for the situations they work in.
Lumley, Manning and Eze look good enough to hold their own at the moment and Eze looks like he could move on to greater things

If our model is to mould players before selling them on then surely they’re going to have to be more than just a cheaper replacement than Bidwell, Lynch or Wzolek - to have any kind of transfer value they’re gonna have to be better

[Post edited 2 May 2019 8:49]

Young Players on 09:11 - May 2 with 4519 views

CliveWilsonSaid

If they didn't need nurturing they wouldn't be at QPR.

Poll:

Expectations for this season?

Young Players on 09:23 - May 2 with 4485 views

Northernr

I actually think it's the opposite. Our senior players who we should expect more of frequently get a free pass from supporters who are, in turn, ridiculously harsh on the younger players. Hemed has been disgusting for most of this season, and yet all I hear is how lazy Eze is. There are still people who stick up for Lynch. Luongo is still, after four years at this level, allowed to go on these prolonged dips in form and have us all talk about how far he had to fly during the international break.

But to answer the original question it depends what you mean.

Is it acceptable to have a grumble about Joe Lumley's form on here, in a match report, down the pub, on the tube, in a fanzine, on a podcast? Is it acceptable to debate Eze's work rate in all those situations? Yeh, probably. I think it's pretty harsh. I think you should look at how many professional games they've played, rather than their age, and they're all still pretty green in that regard. Still learning. Stewart Wardley was, what, 27 when he came to us? But they were the first professional games of his life. But those are the right arenas to be having those moans. If you're a young player and you go rooting around on message boards or listening to fans' podcasts and you hear something you don't like, well that's kind of your fault mate.

Is it acceptable to scream and shout and abuse and criticise those younger/less experienced players during a game? Is it acceptable to send Tweets directly to those players criticising them? Is it acceptable to be sitting/standing right next to what is pretty clearly Eze's brother and family in the away end at Brentford screaming about him being a "lazy cnt?" Even if you do think that's acceptable, you'd surely concede it's counter productive. It's not going to do any good is it? If they're not doing as well as we would hope and we want them to do better, why would we do something that has the opposite effect and makes it harder for them to improve?

This post has been edited by an administrator

Young Players on 09:56 - May 2 with 4395 views

dublinr

Jesus wept, hard to believe that stupidity at Brentford.
I don't get to games, but to counter moronic abuse maybe we should try and think up songs/chants about our younger players (positive ones of course) even before they've done enough to 'deserve' them.
Just as there can't be anything more dispiriting than hearing abuse, for a young footballer there can't be anything more inspiring than hearing the fans singing for you. Is there an Eze chant (didn't hear one at either of the games I made this season)? If not, why not?

Young Players on 10:02 - May 2 with 4380 views

NW10Hoop

Young Players on 09:11 - May 2 by CliveWilsonSaid
If they didn't need nurturing they wouldn't be at QPR.

I agree with this when we’re trying to help a potentially brilliant player like Eze achieve what he’s capable of. If he tries something that doesn’t come off at a game I try and counter the abuse by shouting unlucky. If we can unlock his potential we could have a match winner for a season or two before a massive cash in.

And this sounds horrible but unlocking the potential of a hypothetical lower half championship squad player - do we expect them to reach that lower level quicker?

Anyways listening to the loftcast which has the U23 coach being interviewed at the moment - great listen
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-loftcast/id1137403100?i=1000436974689

Young Players on 10:05 - May 2 with 4371 views

Northernr

I don't think the club has managed Eze particularly well this season TBH, and that's caused a lot of the problems among the fans. The whole new number 10 thing last summer, over hyping, raised expectations that he couldn't then meet when his form dipped after being asked to play every minute of every game in his first full season at this level. I know they've got a pr and ticket sales job to do, and we're obviously trying to fatten a pig for market, but less is definitely more when it comes to talking up these young players. I worry they're about to do the same all over again with Chair.

This post has been edited by an administrator

Young Players on 10:22 - May 2 with 4317 views

NW10Hoop

For the record - I'm not asking to or excusing berating any of our players - particularly our youngsters. The last time i shouted at a player was at the 2-0 home defeat against Charlton in the League Cup in 98/99 and i felt terrible as soon as I shouted.

I don't think it's particularly stupid to wonder what peoples expectations (rather than hopes) are of our younger players on forum formed to discuss all things QPR

Young Players on 10:28 - May 2 with 4301 views

Northernr

Young Players on 10:22 - May 2 by NW10Hoop

No me neither, that's where it should be happening, exactly.

Young Players on 10:44 - May 2 with 4250 views

dublinr

Young Players on 10:22 - May 2 by NW10Hoop

Absolutely right. Hope you didn't think I thought your excellent op was stupid. I think questioning a player's talent on a forum is grand, questioning it at the game by shouting abuse - now that's stupid in my book.

Young Players on 10:49 - May 2 with 4236 views

NW10Hoop

Young Players on 10:44 - May 2 by dublinr
Absolutely right. Hope you didn't think I thought your excellent op was stupid. I think questioning a player's talent on a forum is grand, questioning it at the game by shouting abuse - now that's stupid in my book.

Hahaha I did wonder actually, but thanks for this message - We are in agreement

Young Players on 10:50 - May 2 with 4229 views

Lblock

It's a tough arena the football world - players need to be tough physically and even more importantly, mentally.

You don't win nothing with kids.
Well no, you do actually, but it's all about balance and leadership, set up, system, coaching etc. Just look at England last year (extreme example but it's all relative).

If you're good enough, you're old enough.
Yep agree with that, but you also need to have the minerals and self confidence to see you through inevitable bad games etc.

I don't hold with this view that players are exempt from fans venting at grounds. There's adrenaline on and off the pitch and I simply don't buy it that these people who never voice criticisms of the team at matches exist outside of Trappist monk temples. I would agree that people who seek players out on Twitter to continually dig them out are a weird bunch.

As for our obvious focus now on da yoot dem it's crazy isn't it? But that's Bungle all over - no balance, wild sways from confetti chequebook to pay zero and cut budget to bone.
If we think we'll do anything other than finish with a record low points total next season with a team of 6 or 7 youth graduates as the core of the week to week matchday starting 11 then we're mad. This is a proper tough spot we're in and we'll need some proper characters and experienced leaders to pull us through - surely there's a modern day Richard Dunne, Sean Derry, Clint Hill and Charlie Austin out there who can fit into our budget next season?
I'm all for developing our own players but the balance needs to be right.

I hold a great deal of hope for Lumley, Kakay, Chair, Eze, Smyth and Oteh and hope all are involved in the first team squad throughout next season. It's vital we have Leinster, Freeman, Cameron or even Luongo types around to see them through and be the right sot of mentors..... if we're not retaining those then we best have some replacements lined up.

Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal

Young Players on 10:53 - May 2 with 4212 views

BostonR

The thing about football is that everyone finds their level be it grass-roots, semi-pro or professionally.
There is no doubt that younger players at a professional level need time, coaching and mentoring to reach the required level. Shouting abuse at Eze, Furlong etc is nuts and some of stuff I heard in SAR this season was either drink-fueled or just plain abuse.
Having said that I do attend some semi-pro games and young players get slaughtered at that level, even U18's players.
I sit with a bunch of lads in SAR and we have decided that whatever next season brings we will get behind the young lads. It came close to kicking-off a few times this season given the level abuse some fans level at our young players.

Young Players on 11:02 - May 2 with 4183 views

CliveWilsonSaid

Young Players on 10:02 - May 2 by NW10Hoop

I think that all we can do as a club is try to attract the highest quality of young player that we can. Then try to give them the the best platform we can to progress. I personally think that emphasising the youth policy solely as a money making scheme is a mistake. We need to look at it as turning players into the best possible player they can be.

Also you have to look at where we’ve come from. We hardly produced any lower championship squad players, as you put it, for 20-30 years until recently. If we’re now doing it on a regular basis then it shouldn’t be scoffed at.

Finally you highlight Eze as the best prospect currently at the club but In all honesty I see more players like Osayi - Samuels in the premier league. Improve his heading and finishing and we’ve got a player. It’s harder with Eze because you don’t see many players like him around and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not. As much as I like watching him play.

Apart from that I completely agree

Poll:

Expectations for this season?

Young Players on 11:03 - May 2 with 4178 views

dublinr

There are occasions when shouting abuse at your own players is justified (Barton, bosingwa etc), but its one thing to mouth off about a 'seasoned pro' who doesn't give a sh1t and another to give dog's abuse to someone who's finding his feet.
Shouting abuse is part of football, and part of the fun of going to the game, I just think its better directed at the opposition - and the ref.

Young Players on 11:11 - May 2 with 4150 views

Dorse

'Oh no', thought Eze, 'that fat bloke with pasty crumbs down his shirt just called me a lazy fcuking bellend. I had better disregard my coaching and manager's instructions and do what he says without delay!'

Honestly? Who thinks that berating your own players actually results in a positive response? I mean, apart from Shaun Dyche.

'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'

Young Players on 11:41 - May 2 with 4079 views

qprd

The issue is that, as a club, we have had such a terrible track record with developing young player.

I think i read somewhere that up until Furlong/eze this season, the last QPR player to come through the academy and get 50 league appearances was Marcus Bean back in 2006ish. That is a pathetic, awful record of developing youth players. i would be surprised if there was another club in the entire football league with a worse record during that period.

Our fans are thus not used to seeing young kids come through, and we've forgotten the patience required to develop kids....

Young Players on 12:08 - May 2 with 4009 views

CiderwithRsie

Young Players on 10:22 - May 2 by NW10Hoop

No, you've raised a perfectly valid issue in a reasonable way.

2 points already made are important:-

1. We're QPR, we aren't going to get young players of the calibre of the ones Southgate is currently picking for England, except for Sterling, and if we got another he'd go the same way and as quickly. Doesn't mean e.g. Eze or Chair can't be top flight players, just that they aren't going to be the guys with instant maturity, so they need nurturing.

2. Age isn't the same as experience - Lumley isn't that young but it is his first full season at this level. Point 1 says that's not going to be unusual.

It's all about perspective - don't proclaim the messiah when a guy has a couple of good games on debut, don't slag 'em off if they get worn down over a long season when they've not started regularly before, don't dump on a guy having a bit of a dip in form.

Young Players on 12:50 - May 2 with 3899 views

Hooped_Pullie

An aside : last week, for nostalgia's sake, I looked up footage on YouTube of our last home game of 2000/01, an end-April miseryfest 0-3 against Stockport County, of all sides. And yes, we were as rank as I remembered from gazing on in my much-loved ST seat of 18 years ago.

Young player relevance : it featured the first-team debut - and sending-off - of Justin Cochrane, a young player we had high hopes for. I also had a personal connection, as at the time I worked with his Mum and knew his Dad too. Lovely people and Justin himself was a great lad.

As we all know, he didn't blossom into a top midfielder, but did have a decent career for himself in the lower leagues. Now 37, I was happy to see that the FA have recently appointed him as England U-15 Coach.

The lesson (a rather obvious one) remains that not all young players can get to the kind of level that a Club like ours requires. In fact, a fair few of the names we bandy about currently every day may not make it to the required standard over time. That's why most clubs supplement the youth with mature players signed from elsewhere, whether that be cheaply or expensively. Growing a team made up exclusively of kids is a good plan only if the aim is to fall through the divisions.

I love watching our young players : but at the moment too much is expected of them, and not only by supporters. My only issue with Lumley is that this coming season (and going forward) he should be alternated with a late twenty something/early thirtysomething keeper who's been around the block - there are loads of those around, probably some on this summer's released lists. We've spent a season with Ingram's form and possibly confidence so not-to-be-relied-on and the result has been that Lumley has played every week. Not the best thing for him or the Club.

Likewise, Eze : not lazy to my eyes, but - completely understandably - prone to youthful lapses. At least, though, as an outfield player there has been the opportunity to take him out of the firing line sometimes.

We need bodies through the door this summer - much will depend on who they are, and which manager is doing the choosing. Realistically, with resources the way they are, we could do with a couple of cash injections of the kind that the sale of Freeman and Luongo would bring in. Then it's down to making the right decisions. Let's see who the new man is first, though.

Young Players on 13:25 - May 2 with 3792 views

californiahoop

Nice call on the keeper situation!

Young Players on 13:26 - May 2 with 3785 views

paulparker

Young Players on 09:56 - May 2 by dublinr

With all due respect we were garbage at Brentford the players derseved to be called all the names under the sun , people have paid a lot of money this year for half arsed performances , im not having a goat at Eze but in the heat of a west London Derby fans are going to react especially when we are turning in another crap performance at griffin park

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

Young Players on 13:45 - May 2 with 3745 views

headhoops

Not acceptable in my book is digging out any player who is genuinely trying and its either a dip in form or they just aren't good enough at this level. Washington for example, always gave it his all, just not a championship striker.

On the other hand the Bosingwa's and Assou Ekoto will get both barrels from me an abundance of talent but shyte attitude.

Give me a Bright OS over a Hemed every day of the week. We need a real leader on the pitch next year to galvanise and support the kids.

Poll:

Remy - can he play in the playoffs - who's opening post is the best?

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread