| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 00:58 - Mar 28 with 2395 views | timcocking |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 09:52 - Mar 27 by dublinr |
You seem to be deliberately missing the essential point. Depression is a medical condition that affects rich and poor alike. Passing it off as the self indulgence of the wealthy is glib and offensive.
For me it wasn't money (or the lack of it) that set off my worst episode, but having too much time on my hands, too much time to dwell on things. I think that's why it hits the young - and footballers with long-term injuries - so hard. |
I'm not missing the point at all. Chance would be a fine thing lol. Clive and yourself are. Or at best, my post didn't come out as i intended, apologies if somebody took it the wrong way (it seems you all did). When i reread my post, perhaps it sounded like i was being facetious, but i wasn't, i was being sincere. He has my sympathies, it was awful reading.
My point is, or was meant to be, simply that if you aren't mentally tough, professional men's sport is no place for you unfortunately. Anybody really trying to tell me the bright lights of Loftus Road are going to help somebodies' anxiety? All that time on his hands, it must be a lonely situation Grant has been in and i found the articles harrowing to read and have every sympathy for him. The thicker skinned a person is, the more suited to becoming a professional footballer. Merely a flippant point at the end, i probably could have expressed better. If he's struggling now, it's fortunate he's in a privileged position to get all the help he wants. Wealth doesn't stop depression, even a imbecile realises that, but it certainly helps deal with the issues. Are you honestly suggesting he'd be coping better if he couldn't afford the medication to keep his daughter alive and was cold and starving?
In my mind, what really adds to the isolation and increasing depression levels we have now is the constant aggression towards strangers on things like this forum. I've lost track of how many times i've been attacked or abused on this site and the vast majority of the time, the person in question has quite literally misunderstood and i'm being insulted for something i never said or certainly didn't mean or think. And people rarely have big enough shoulders to apologise, as you should.
I've been homeless more than once, i've been starving, slept in card board boxes. I was always happy. And i've been very wealthy. I've a very good grasp on which is a more or less depressing lifestyle. There will not be a person on this site knows more about mental health issues than me on this site, i'll guarantee you that my friend. For starters, i've had a brother who has spent more than a decade on various psych wards. I had a meeting (well, phone conversations) with two mental health specialists this week.
If there are any misconceptions, it's this current one where people are saying it makes no difference to a person's mental state being wealthy. Of course it does. It's obviously a huge help. You don't get depressed because of being wealthy, one gets depressed despite it. Of course, it's still possible to be totally depressed, some people have chemical imbalances. For the majority, though, it's a life issue. Numerous factors go into a person's happiness or lack thereof. Probably the biggest single factor being financial security. That's beyond obvious.
Anyway, we all wish him well i'm sure, but having read his recent articles, i'll be surprised if he makes it. Fingers crossed for him. Can't help but feel this was coming a mile off and the club could/should have tried to do more to assist before we reached this stage. Any player who has been out for so long is certain to be struggling with it, i'd have thought. [Post edited 28 Mar 2019 2:13]
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| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 02:03 - Mar 28 with 2371 views | timcocking |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 13:54 - Mar 26 by Northernr |
Depression isn't a mood its a chemical thing, doesn't matter how well off or comfortable you are in life.
QPR need to be listening to their players. Jack Robinson said exactly the same thing about loneliness and depression during his long lay off. Are we doing enough when players are out long term? |
This isn't accurate Clive. It's more complicated than that.
It can be chemical, but can also be caused by myriad other factors, life in general. I'd assumed Grant Hall's depression isn't a chemical imbalance, it was a result of a couple of years of not being able to play and all the issues of isolation and frustration etc accompanying that? Correct me if i'm wrong. If it's the former, it's obviously a bigger issue. If it's the latter, and you want to list the factors affect a person's happiness/depression levels, there are numerous factors but financial security will be probably be number one on the list.
If you're born with a chemical imbalance which keeps you permanently depressed, that's a bummer, you want to get medicated asap. I don't think Grant Hall was like that as a child, though, was he? If he was, i don't think a football club would take him on. I just don't think modern football clubs want to be dealing with that sort of baggage.
But for those of us, most of us i'd expect, who are just struggling to cope with the awful modern civilisation, haven't really got a chemical imbalance, we shouldn't all be rushing down to pop pills imo. Doctors would tell us we should, but you don't want to go around believing doctors too quickly. A better way for most people to deal with depression is to start going to the gym and get a cat. [Post edited 28 Mar 2019 2:05]
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| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 07:06 - Mar 28 with 2306 views | Loftgirl |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 01:49 - Mar 27 by ozexile |
I believe one of the factors of the increase of anti depressants in the young is the use of mobile phones and tablets. These kids have never grown up with an off button. Check facebook, insta etc. They never get time to be with themselves, collect their thoughts. Their mind is racing 24/7.
When I walk my dog I just walk her, no phone, no social media just me her and the fresh air. People need that. |
Great advice. I haven't seen it mentioned here yet but it would be well worth seeking out a good homeopath. Anti-depressants are not the answer. [Post edited 28 Mar 2019 22:58]
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| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 07:47 - Mar 28 with 2274 views | QPR_Jim |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 00:58 - Mar 28 by timcocking |
I'm not missing the point at all. Chance would be a fine thing lol. Clive and yourself are. Or at best, my post didn't come out as i intended, apologies if somebody took it the wrong way (it seems you all did). When i reread my post, perhaps it sounded like i was being facetious, but i wasn't, i was being sincere. He has my sympathies, it was awful reading.
My point is, or was meant to be, simply that if you aren't mentally tough, professional men's sport is no place for you unfortunately. Anybody really trying to tell me the bright lights of Loftus Road are going to help somebodies' anxiety? All that time on his hands, it must be a lonely situation Grant has been in and i found the articles harrowing to read and have every sympathy for him. The thicker skinned a person is, the more suited to becoming a professional footballer. Merely a flippant point at the end, i probably could have expressed better. If he's struggling now, it's fortunate he's in a privileged position to get all the help he wants. Wealth doesn't stop depression, even a imbecile realises that, but it certainly helps deal with the issues. Are you honestly suggesting he'd be coping better if he couldn't afford the medication to keep his daughter alive and was cold and starving?
In my mind, what really adds to the isolation and increasing depression levels we have now is the constant aggression towards strangers on things like this forum. I've lost track of how many times i've been attacked or abused on this site and the vast majority of the time, the person in question has quite literally misunderstood and i'm being insulted for something i never said or certainly didn't mean or think. And people rarely have big enough shoulders to apologise, as you should.
I've been homeless more than once, i've been starving, slept in card board boxes. I was always happy. And i've been very wealthy. I've a very good grasp on which is a more or less depressing lifestyle. There will not be a person on this site knows more about mental health issues than me on this site, i'll guarantee you that my friend. For starters, i've had a brother who has spent more than a decade on various psych wards. I had a meeting (well, phone conversations) with two mental health specialists this week.
If there are any misconceptions, it's this current one where people are saying it makes no difference to a person's mental state being wealthy. Of course it does. It's obviously a huge help. You don't get depressed because of being wealthy, one gets depressed despite it. Of course, it's still possible to be totally depressed, some people have chemical imbalances. For the majority, though, it's a life issue. Numerous factors go into a person's happiness or lack thereof. Probably the biggest single factor being financial security. That's beyond obvious.
Anyway, we all wish him well i'm sure, but having read his recent articles, i'll be surprised if he makes it. Fingers crossed for him. Can't help but feel this was coming a mile off and the club could/should have tried to do more to assist before we reached this stage. Any player who has been out for so long is certain to be struggling with it, i'd have thought. [Post edited 28 Mar 2019 2:13]
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"My point is, or was meant to be, simply that if you aren't mentally tough, professional men's sport is no place for you unfortunately."
His struggle is with not playing, he enjoys playing football and is used to being under that pressure. Also having depression doesn't make you mentally weak.
"If there are any misconceptions, it's this current one where people are saying it makes no difference to a person's mental state being wealthy. Of course it does."
I think you're over simplifying it slightly, many people suffering from severe depression consider suicide as an only way out. Do you really think that if that makes sense to them they're in the right frame of mind to go hang on a minute I've got a big pot of money here I'll get an expensive therapist and everything will be fine. In that situation they can't see a way out at all so it's all irrelevant as far as they're concerned.
I'm probably not explaining myself well either but I can tell you that my brother-in-law has tried to commit suicide a couple of times due to depression. He's not rich but he's financially secure, he's got a family he loves to bits and who loves him. When he's depressed none of that matters and all logic goes out of his brain. So what I'm trying to say is whatever you think is logical may not be what a depressed person would think. |  | | |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 08:12 - Mar 28 with 2263 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Excellent thread, folks.
While it does show that some still think that depression is linked to weakness, it also shows the he strides we've taken as a society in recognising mental health as a legitimate issue, in conversing sensibly and intelligently on the issue and in tackling it as best we can.
My thoughts and supports with those on here who are fighting or whose loved ones are. |  |
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| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 09:16 - Mar 28 with 2208 views | robith |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 07:06 - Mar 28 by Loftgirl |
Great advice. I haven't seen it mentioned here yet but it would be well worth seeking out a good homeopath. Anti-depressants are not the answer. [Post edited 28 Mar 2019 22:58]
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This is dangerous nonsense |  | | |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 09:20 - Mar 28 with 2203 views | robith |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 08:12 - Mar 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
Excellent thread, folks.
While it does show that some still think that depression is linked to weakness, it also shows the he strides we've taken as a society in recognising mental health as a legitimate issue, in conversing sensibly and intelligently on the issue and in tackling it as best we can.
My thoughts and supports with those on here who are fighting or whose loved ones are. |
Highlighting how people view treatment too.
Like would people tell someone with cancer to get a cat and go for a walk? | | | |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 09:42 - Mar 28 with 2184 views | LythamR |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 00:58 - Mar 28 by timcocking |
I'm not missing the point at all. Chance would be a fine thing lol. Clive and yourself are. Or at best, my post didn't come out as i intended, apologies if somebody took it the wrong way (it seems you all did). When i reread my post, perhaps it sounded like i was being facetious, but i wasn't, i was being sincere. He has my sympathies, it was awful reading.
My point is, or was meant to be, simply that if you aren't mentally tough, professional men's sport is no place for you unfortunately. Anybody really trying to tell me the bright lights of Loftus Road are going to help somebodies' anxiety? All that time on his hands, it must be a lonely situation Grant has been in and i found the articles harrowing to read and have every sympathy for him. The thicker skinned a person is, the more suited to becoming a professional footballer. Merely a flippant point at the end, i probably could have expressed better. If he's struggling now, it's fortunate he's in a privileged position to get all the help he wants. Wealth doesn't stop depression, even a imbecile realises that, but it certainly helps deal with the issues. Are you honestly suggesting he'd be coping better if he couldn't afford the medication to keep his daughter alive and was cold and starving?
In my mind, what really adds to the isolation and increasing depression levels we have now is the constant aggression towards strangers on things like this forum. I've lost track of how many times i've been attacked or abused on this site and the vast majority of the time, the person in question has quite literally misunderstood and i'm being insulted for something i never said or certainly didn't mean or think. And people rarely have big enough shoulders to apologise, as you should.
I've been homeless more than once, i've been starving, slept in card board boxes. I was always happy. And i've been very wealthy. I've a very good grasp on which is a more or less depressing lifestyle. There will not be a person on this site knows more about mental health issues than me on this site, i'll guarantee you that my friend. For starters, i've had a brother who has spent more than a decade on various psych wards. I had a meeting (well, phone conversations) with two mental health specialists this week.
If there are any misconceptions, it's this current one where people are saying it makes no difference to a person's mental state being wealthy. Of course it does. It's obviously a huge help. You don't get depressed because of being wealthy, one gets depressed despite it. Of course, it's still possible to be totally depressed, some people have chemical imbalances. For the majority, though, it's a life issue. Numerous factors go into a person's happiness or lack thereof. Probably the biggest single factor being financial security. That's beyond obvious.
Anyway, we all wish him well i'm sure, but having read his recent articles, i'll be surprised if he makes it. Fingers crossed for him. Can't help but feel this was coming a mile off and the club could/should have tried to do more to assist before we reached this stage. Any player who has been out for so long is certain to be struggling with it, i'd have thought. [Post edited 28 Mar 2019 2:13]
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some good points in there but for me you shoot yourself in the foot with this
"There will not be a person on this site knows more about mental health issues than me on this site, i'll guarantee you that my friend"
Thats a hell of an assumption, apart from a few posts in this thread and some past ones you have no conception of other peoples challenges and experience of depression or mental health in general.
You have done this in the past as well, specifically i can recall one about Thailand and Thai people. maybe thats why people have taken against you on so many occasions you have lost count. |  | | |
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| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 11:00 - Mar 28 with 2123 views | ozexile |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 09:16 - Mar 28 by robith |
This is dangerous nonsense |
Finding alternatives to anti depressants is dangerous nonsense? |  | | |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 11:36 - Mar 28 with 2090 views | dannyblue |
There are different people and different depressions and different causes and different times.
For some talking therapy helps. For some drugs. For others the gym, a walk and a pet. For others art, or some form of creative expression. For others philosophy or religion. For others, whisper it, just putting a brave face on and not confronting it seems to work, at least for a while - kick that can down the road. Sometimes one thing works better than an other. Often what works changes over time.
There are no right answers beyond what seems to help the individual and those around them at the time.
The anti-psychiatry movement is fascinating. It points out some important things. Not least to take people's lived experiences seriously, to give them a chance to express them honestly,. Don't be too quick to label and prescribe. Remember there's no such thing as bipolar or depression. These are just made up names for a particular constellation of symptoms. They're just a label. There isn't necessarily a single cause behind it, nor a simple cure.
At the same time those who fully immersed themselves in anti-psychiatry were not always helped and the practice of it has fallen into disrepute even as the core ideas have influenced new approaches. SSRIs and the like have brought much benefit to many.
If you don't have hygiene issues to worry about (house, food, warmth, money) then you don't have hygiene issues to worry about. Simple as that, but neither here nor there when it comes to depression. Just means you don't have depression + other worries. Of course those other worries can make depression worse. But then so too can feelings of guilt and self-loathing: 'how can I be depressed when I have all this...wow I must really be weak'.
For what it's worth, I try to take this approach: patience, acknowledgement, listening and, if I feel it genuinely, companionship. I'll share ideas I've come across if they seem like they might be news or helpful, but not in a prescriptive way, just as something for someone to consider. |  | | |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 12:42 - Mar 28 with 2024 views | FDC |
Great thread with some genuinely moving contributions. I wish everyone living with depression in their family all the strength and support in the world. To see loved ones afflicted that way is heartbreaking, and a tremendous strain on relationships. I have some experience of a close family member going through this myself, and you wonder how you will ever get through the other side but you do.
I don't suppose it really matters, but: the way the brain works is by brain cells communicating with each other using neurotransmitters. As such all brain activity involves chemicals. There is no meaningful distinction between 'physical' ailments and 'mental' ailments. Any mental process (or condition) has a chemcial process behind it. Where else would mental processes originate? Unless you're talking about souls or something but let's not go there.
I only mention this because you often see people say "Yeh depression is a chemical imbalance but such and such mental health issue is psychological". It's good that people see depression as a health issue but we need to see all mental health issues this way too. There's a political point here about where mental health services should sit in terms of policy remit but that's another thread. |  | | |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 12:43 - Mar 28 with 2018 views | FDC |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 11:00 - Mar 28 by ozexile |
Finding alternatives to anti depressants is dangerous nonsense? |
Treating depression with water is yeah | | | |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 12:49 - Mar 28 with 2008 views | hopphoops |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 12:43 - Mar 28 by FDC |
Treating depression with water is yeah |
Well it's good to stay hydrated. |  |
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| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 15:02 - Mar 28 with 1911 views | simmo |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 08:12 - Mar 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
Excellent thread, folks.
While it does show that some still think that depression is linked to weakness, it also shows the he strides we've taken as a society in recognising mental health as a legitimate issue, in conversing sensibly and intelligently on the issue and in tackling it as best we can.
My thoughts and supports with those on here who are fighting or whose loved ones are. |
Basically this, reading through and seeing a lot of people are all in the same boat with one thing or another, be it with their own issues or people close to them.
Also just to say that depression has nothing to do with mental 'weakness', that's a stigmatism that breeds ignorance. Too many people seeing themselves as failures and shaming themselves into spiralling, closing up and at worst, suicide because they don’t feel they can share or communicate their feelings for fear of ridicule and judgement.
It's oversimplified but for those in the midst of dealing with it, don't give up, things genuinely do get a lot better when you share and pursue help that's available. It might take longer for some than others but no matter what your circumstances, you're not alone, not even a little bit. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 22:08 - Mar 28 with 1782 views | dublinr |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 00:58 - Mar 28 by timcocking |
I'm not missing the point at all. Chance would be a fine thing lol. Clive and yourself are. Or at best, my post didn't come out as i intended, apologies if somebody took it the wrong way (it seems you all did). When i reread my post, perhaps it sounded like i was being facetious, but i wasn't, i was being sincere. He has my sympathies, it was awful reading.
My point is, or was meant to be, simply that if you aren't mentally tough, professional men's sport is no place for you unfortunately. Anybody really trying to tell me the bright lights of Loftus Road are going to help somebodies' anxiety? All that time on his hands, it must be a lonely situation Grant has been in and i found the articles harrowing to read and have every sympathy for him. The thicker skinned a person is, the more suited to becoming a professional footballer. Merely a flippant point at the end, i probably could have expressed better. If he's struggling now, it's fortunate he's in a privileged position to get all the help he wants. Wealth doesn't stop depression, even a imbecile realises that, but it certainly helps deal with the issues. Are you honestly suggesting he'd be coping better if he couldn't afford the medication to keep his daughter alive and was cold and starving?
In my mind, what really adds to the isolation and increasing depression levels we have now is the constant aggression towards strangers on things like this forum. I've lost track of how many times i've been attacked or abused on this site and the vast majority of the time, the person in question has quite literally misunderstood and i'm being insulted for something i never said or certainly didn't mean or think. And people rarely have big enough shoulders to apologise, as you should.
I've been homeless more than once, i've been starving, slept in card board boxes. I was always happy. And i've been very wealthy. I've a very good grasp on which is a more or less depressing lifestyle. There will not be a person on this site knows more about mental health issues than me on this site, i'll guarantee you that my friend. For starters, i've had a brother who has spent more than a decade on various psych wards. I had a meeting (well, phone conversations) with two mental health specialists this week.
If there are any misconceptions, it's this current one where people are saying it makes no difference to a person's mental state being wealthy. Of course it does. It's obviously a huge help. You don't get depressed because of being wealthy, one gets depressed despite it. Of course, it's still possible to be totally depressed, some people have chemical imbalances. For the majority, though, it's a life issue. Numerous factors go into a person's happiness or lack thereof. Probably the biggest single factor being financial security. That's beyond obvious.
Anyway, we all wish him well i'm sure, but having read his recent articles, i'll be surprised if he makes it. Fingers crossed for him. Can't help but feel this was coming a mile off and the club could/should have tried to do more to assist before we reached this stage. Any player who has been out for so long is certain to be struggling with it, i'd have thought. [Post edited 28 Mar 2019 2:13]
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Your post was a bit offensive, but maybe I was wrong to call it glib. Happy to apologize for that, and sorry to hear of your troubles too.
I still think that when you talk of' more or less depressing lifestyles', it sounds very much like you're confusing depression the mood or mental state with depression the medical condition. And I don't like the concept of mental weakness. | |
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| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 22:57 - Mar 28 with 1733 views | Match82 |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 22:08 - Mar 28 by dublinr |
Your post was a bit offensive, but maybe I was wrong to call it glib. Happy to apologize for that, and sorry to hear of your troubles too.
I still think that when you talk of' more or less depressing lifestyles', it sounds very much like you're confusing depression the mood or mental state with depression the medical condition. And I don't like the concept of mental weakness. |
I think this is actually the crux of the problem. People using the phrase "depressed" as a synonym for feeling sad or upset has crept into the public consciousness to such a degree that the broader public think they are the same thing. I know I was guilty of this myself until experiences over the past decade with people suffering from actual clinical depression. |  | | |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 01:12 - Mar 29 with 1663 views | ozexile |
| Grant Hall on his struggles with depression on 22:57 - Mar 28 by Match82 |
I think this is actually the crux of the problem. People using the phrase "depressed" as a synonym for feeling sad or upset has crept into the public consciousness to such a degree that the broader public think they are the same thing. I know I was guilty of this myself until experiences over the past decade with people suffering from actual clinical depression. |
I totally agree. When my Father passed away 10 years ago. I was naturally down for a while. People said I should go to the Dr and "get something".
But why?
Sadness is a natural human emotion. It shouldn't be masked. It's just on the other end of the scale of happiness.
It's ok to be sad, it will pass. | | | |
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