| Interesting Trust Email 20:09 - Jun 29 with 140909 views | Neath_Jack |
Regarding the options open to us.
It's going to cause some massive debate on here i reckon  |  |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 14:05 - Jul 3 with 2065 views | Uxbridge |
| Interesting Trust Email on 13:35 - Jul 3 by Jinxy |
A question for a trust board member please - would a vote for litigation mean that even if an improved offer is received, then then the Trust would still be duty bound to proceed with litigation?
Maybe the ballot choice should be:
1. Issue the Trust with a mandate to proceed with legal action should a more attractive offer (I know that could be subjective but a lot of people have made good suggestions/points on here in my view) be not forthcoming.
2. Accept the deal.
3. Do nothing.
I'm thinking that with such a mandate and will of the collective membership, then the Trust's negotiation position would be further strengthened, hopefully litigation avoided which I think most people would want if the deal was right. |
Tricky one really. It would seem pointless to go back to the membership unless there's a materially different offer that addressed the issues of the membership. If there was, then I would suggest that has to go to a ballot too ... there's nothing stopping the Trust board accepting an offer if it sees fit, however it has decided that any such decision needs to be taken by the members.
One thing to note is that the offer we have doesn't meet all the Trust board's concerns by any means but it is as far as we've been able to get to, and is the first we've been able to recommend in favour of. |  |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 14:06 - Jul 3 with 2060 views | Uxbridge |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:03 - Jul 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
That sounds like a common sense idea, it will probably cost a few hundred pounds, but would be worth it. |
You could add a zero to that, at the very least. That wouldn't pay for him to get to Paddington. I know Dai has worked closely with the QC on this so would be more than able to talk through the legal options. | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 14:13 - Jul 3 with 2041 views | Jinxy |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:05 - Jul 3 by Uxbridge |
Tricky one really. It would seem pointless to go back to the membership unless there's a materially different offer that addressed the issues of the membership. If there was, then I would suggest that has to go to a ballot too ... there's nothing stopping the Trust board accepting an offer if it sees fit, however it has decided that any such decision needs to be taken by the members.
One thing to note is that the offer we have doesn't meet all the Trust board's concerns by any means but it is as far as we've been able to get to, and is the first we've been able to recommend in favour of. |
Many thanks - also for the time you are taking to answer our queries/points raised. Much appreciated! |  | | |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:24 - Jul 3 with 2017 views | harryhpalmer |
| Interesting Trust Email on 13:00 - Jul 3 by Neath_Jack |
Ux, any chance of answering my question please. |
NeathJack,
Shaky answered your points which I reposted, on P28. And Ux followed up on P29. |  |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 14:32 - Jul 3 with 2000 views | Neath_Jack |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:24 - Jul 3 by harryhpalmer |
NeathJack,
Shaky answered your points which I reposted, on P28. And Ux followed up on P29. |
You've got your Neath Jacks mixed up my friend. | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 14:38 - Jul 3 with 1993 views | Todger |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:06 - Jul 3 by Uxbridge |
You could add a zero to that, at the very least. That wouldn't pay for him to get to Paddington. I know Dai has worked closely with the QC on this so would be more than able to talk through the legal options. |
It would probably cost around £5k but I think it would be a good idea to hear it from the horse's mouth and to have the opportunity to question him and hear his answers. Given how momentous this decision is £5k is very little. | | | |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:42 - Jul 3 with 1974 views | Uxbridge |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:38 - Jul 3 by Todger |
It would probably cost around £5k but I think it would be a good idea to hear it from the horse's mouth and to have the opportunity to question him and hear his answers. Given how momentous this decision is £5k is very little. |
Not sure what you'd expect him to say. He's not going to go through the case in detail, that can't be conducted in the public domain. Dai could talk about the process, likelihood of success, potential scenarios or any questions arising from that as well as anyone. | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 14:46 - Jul 3 with 1961 views | Nookiejack |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:38 - Jul 3 by Todger |
It would probably cost around £5k but I think it would be a good idea to hear it from the horse's mouth and to have the opportunity to question him and hear his answers. Given how momentous this decision is £5k is very little. |
I dont know if I am in favour of this - seems like the Trust would be declaring its hand.
Much better that the QC's opinion is deemed to be very strong.
It's a game of poker isn't it Todger - if the Yanks perceive that the Trust think they have a watertight case then they are likely to give further concessions.
If the QC declares the Trusts hand then might weaken the Trust's negotiating position.
If course it might considerably strengthen it. | | | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 14:57 - Jul 3 with 1933 views | swancity |
30 pages later and Uxbridge is still doing his best to shoot down any notion that legal action is a must. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 15:19 - Jul 3 with 1881 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:42 - Jul 3 by Uxbridge |
Not sure what you'd expect him to say. He's not going to go through the case in detail, that can't be conducted in the public domain. Dai could talk about the process, likelihood of success, potential scenarios or any questions arising from that as well as anyone. |
Aren't the Trust Membership the "Clients" of QC and not the Trust Board?
Therefore it would not be in the "public domain". | | | |
| Interesting Trust Email on 15:44 - Jul 3 with 1840 views | vetchonian |
| Interesting Trust Email on 15:19 - Jul 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
Aren't the Trust Membership the "Clients" of QC and not the Trust Board?
Therefore it would not be in the "public domain". |
And how long before it gets discussed on here? | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 15:46 - Jul 3 with 1836 views | vetchonian |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:57 - Jul 3 by swancity |
30 pages later and Uxbridge is still doing his best to shoot down any notion that legal action is a must. |
OK so why is it a must? | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 15:53 - Jul 3 with 1823 views | vetchonian |
| Interesting Trust Email on 11:05 - Jul 3 by E20Jack |
But if a short term thought process there though HJ. A year of instability will feel like nothing when the Trust have enough to buy the club outright one day. If they lose the case then the instability is only what will naturally come as a result of The Trust remaining on the outside of things anyway. [Post edited 3 Jul 2017 11:21]
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There are a lots of ifs and buts to all the arguements but how is everyone so sure that £21M will be enough to buy the club one day?
That is based on an almost doomsday scenario......and assumes the court case is won..
Lets say we win whats to stop Jason and Steve raising the £21m as debt in the club?
If all shareholding is sold what will then be the purpose of the Trust? | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 16:24 - Jul 3 with 1761 views | Uxbridge |
| Interesting Trust Email on 15:44 - Jul 3 by vetchonian |
And how long before it gets discussed on here? |
3.5 seconds. If that.
It's not going to happen. It's directly contrary to the QC's advice. | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 16:32 - Jul 3 with 1747 views | swancity |
| Interesting Trust Email on 15:46 - Jul 3 by vetchonian |
OK so why is it a must? |
I don't want to repeat everything
Read back through the 30 pages. Read the comments from those who understand these things. Then consider the QC comments that it's a strong case. Then just for one moment consider what Jenkins and Co did right behind the backs of their colleagues, their friends, their fellow supporters ie The Trust. Just how could they? Millions of fooking pounds that's how.
All in all. It's a must. Or accept the meagre scraps being thrown to you. We need to show strength. We aren't doing it. I say we. It's the Trust. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 16:34 - Jul 3 with 1737 views | swancity |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:06 - Jul 3 by Uxbridge |
You could add a zero to that, at the very least. That wouldn't pay for him to get to Paddington. I know Dai has worked closely with the QC on this so would be more than able to talk through the legal options. |
Pouncing negatively and immediately on everything that doesn't match your own thoughts. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 16:40 - Jul 3 with 1725 views | Vetchfielder |
| Interesting Trust Email on 14:38 - Jul 3 by Todger |
It would probably cost around £5k but I think it would be a good idea to hear it from the horse's mouth and to have the opportunity to question him and hear his answers. Given how momentous this decision is £5k is very little. |
Are you a Trust member Todger? |  |
| Proud to have been one of the 231 |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 16:41 - Jul 3 with 1725 views | vetchonian |
| Interesting Trust Email on 16:32 - Jul 3 by swancity |
I don't want to repeat everything
Read back through the 30 pages. Read the comments from those who understand these things. Then consider the QC comments that it's a strong case. Then just for one moment consider what Jenkins and Co did right behind the backs of their colleagues, their friends, their fellow supporters ie The Trust. Just how could they? Millions of fooking pounds that's how.
All in all. It's a must. Or accept the meagre scraps being thrown to you. We need to show strength. We aren't doing it. I say we. It's the Trust. |
Yes I know and understand what Jenkins et al did
There is also a lot of emotion surrounding this and the legal action will do nothing to affect HJ et al.
IF succesful the new owners ie Kaplan and Levian will have to pay the Trust £21M for the shares.....as I have already said what stops them raising this from the club funds or as a debt ?
IF we win what does that give us? £21M and no stake at all in the club
Oh and by the way a couple of years of legal wrangles destabalising an already fragole club.
SO yes I see its a must | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 16:54 - Jul 3 with 1692 views | swancity |
| Interesting Trust Email on 16:41 - Jul 3 by vetchonian |
Yes I know and understand what Jenkins et al did
There is also a lot of emotion surrounding this and the legal action will do nothing to affect HJ et al.
IF succesful the new owners ie Kaplan and Levian will have to pay the Trust £21M for the shares.....as I have already said what stops them raising this from the club funds or as a debt ?
IF we win what does that give us? £21M and no stake at all in the club
Oh and by the way a couple of years of legal wrangles destabalising an already fragole club.
SO yes I see its a must |
1. I think you find that a legal battle will have a huge affect indirectly on Jenkins et al
2. Couple of years legal? I doubt that. It looks as clear cut a case as they come. As confirmed by the QC. It might not even come to that but at least it'll get a few sphincters twitching.😂
As things stand the Trust have no real input, no serious involvement or power with any decision making roles. They're kept involved on the periphery just to satisfy a few egos and not much more. Let's be honest here. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 16:58 - Jul 3 with 1681 views | UplandsJack |
Well I'm sorry but after reading and then re-reading this entire thread, if the trust continue to recommend this "offer" they've failed every single fan. THESE GUYS ARE GOING TO RIP US OFF..... Just look at their form to date. A leopard doesn't change his spots.
I really, really hope im wrong but i can clearly see three to five years from now, we will find we are out of the club or as good as, with little or no money, after being strong armed to reinvest most of the 5% initially paid, into the expansion. Then the rest will be swindled "legally" away by ways these guys are all too familiar in doing.
Christ guys, this is after all what these guys do for a living....
We have only one strong, no very strong angle of leverage and that is the legal option. Either use it to re-negotiate again and again to get to a place where we have the long term security everyone wants. Or if that's not forthcoming, then go for the money and play the long game.
Remember we will be here long after they've sold up and buggered off. [Post edited 3 Jul 2017 17:14]
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| Interesting Trust Email on 17:05 - Jul 3 with 1673 views | vetchonian |
| Interesting Trust Email on 16:54 - Jul 3 by swancity |
1. I think you find that a legal battle will have a huge affect indirectly on Jenkins et al
2. Couple of years legal? I doubt that. It looks as clear cut a case as they come. As confirmed by the QC. It might not even come to that but at least it'll get a few sphincters twitching.😂
As things stand the Trust have no real input, no serious involvement or power with any decision making roles. They're kept involved on the periphery just to satisfy a few egos and not much more. Let's be honest here. |
1. I am probably thick but I fail to see how HJ and teh sell outs will be affected by the legal case......apart from the publicity which is already out there
2. Surprisingly it will probably take a while to get heard at court.....during which time a lot of damage could be done to the clubs stability......holding back of funds to pay for the outcome if as is said the buyers lose
I trust neither the Yanks or the so called fans who are the sellouts. I dont believe the sellouts were that savvy to set up what became the final deal which ended up with the Trust being stitched up. As I see it the deal on the table allows us some influence and a vehicle with whihc to be the "enemy within " if required.
As usual with this sort of thing far too many people on the outside view those who do on committees etc as doing so for the perks......I have no allegencies or strong feelings but I do believe in put up pr shut up and I have yet to see lots of new people clamouring to get on board the Trusts hierarchy | |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 17:11 - Jul 3 with 1660 views | UplandsJack |
| Interesting Trust Email on 16:54 - Jul 3 by swancity |
1. I think you find that a legal battle will have a huge affect indirectly on Jenkins et al
2. Couple of years legal? I doubt that. It looks as clear cut a case as they come. As confirmed by the QC. It might not even come to that but at least it'll get a few sphincters twitching.😂
As things stand the Trust have no real input, no serious involvement or power with any decision making roles. They're kept involved on the periphery just to satisfy a few egos and not much more. Let's be honest here. |
Exactly. Plus of course the details of what went on last year will then come out to the wider fanbase.
I think it will put Jenkins & Co in an impossible position. Can't imagine Kaplan and Levien being chuffed with the negativity either. They will find a scapegoat, it's what they have form for.
I just can't see how anyone can vote to take the offer that is currently on the table. Now I don't for one second claim to have initially understood the complexity of that "deal", but after having it explained clearly by, Lisa & Shaky (thanks both) on this thread, it would be absolutely nuts to. | | | |
| Interesting Trust Email on 17:12 - Jul 3 with 1657 views | swancity |
| Interesting Trust Email on 17:05 - Jul 3 by vetchonian |
1. I am probably thick but I fail to see how HJ and teh sell outs will be affected by the legal case......apart from the publicity which is already out there
2. Surprisingly it will probably take a while to get heard at court.....during which time a lot of damage could be done to the clubs stability......holding back of funds to pay for the outcome if as is said the buyers lose
I trust neither the Yanks or the so called fans who are the sellouts. I dont believe the sellouts were that savvy to set up what became the final deal which ended up with the Trust being stitched up. As I see it the deal on the table allows us some influence and a vehicle with whihc to be the "enemy within " if required.
As usual with this sort of thing far too many people on the outside view those who do on committees etc as doing so for the perks......I have no allegencies or strong feelings but I do believe in put up pr shut up and I have yet to see lots of new people clamouring to get on board the Trusts hierarchy |
You stick to your view. I have mine. That's life.
But the Trust should NOT at this stage be trying to force their stance upon everyone. They need to be offering a fair and balanced version of everything. They aren't doing it.
You believe in put up or shut up? I don't. I now have no intention of joining the Trust again as they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. But I'm a life long Swans fan if that's ok with you. 👠| |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 17:13 - Jul 3 with 1654 views | swancity |
| Interesting Trust Email on 17:11 - Jul 3 by UplandsJack |
Exactly. Plus of course the details of what went on last year will then come out to the wider fanbase.
I think it will put Jenkins & Co in an impossible position. Can't imagine Kaplan and Levien being chuffed with the negativity either. They will find a scapegoat, it's what they have form for.
I just can't see how anyone can vote to take the offer that is currently on the table. Now I don't for one second claim to have initially understood the complexity of that "deal", but after having it explained clearly by, Lisa & Shaky (thanks both) on this thread, it would be absolutely nuts to. |
Agreed. Well said. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Interesting Trust Email on 17:21 - Jul 3 with 1644 views | UplandsJack |
| Interesting Trust Email on 17:05 - Jul 3 by vetchonian |
1. I am probably thick but I fail to see how HJ and teh sell outs will be affected by the legal case......apart from the publicity which is already out there
2. Surprisingly it will probably take a while to get heard at court.....during which time a lot of damage could be done to the clubs stability......holding back of funds to pay for the outcome if as is said the buyers lose
I trust neither the Yanks or the so called fans who are the sellouts. I dont believe the sellouts were that savvy to set up what became the final deal which ended up with the Trust being stitched up. As I see it the deal on the table allows us some influence and a vehicle with whihc to be the "enemy within " if required.
As usual with this sort of thing far too many people on the outside view those who do on committees etc as doing so for the perks......I have no allegencies or strong feelings but I do believe in put up pr shut up and I have yet to see lots of new people clamouring to get on board the Trusts hierarchy |
In fairness Vetch and I've had this discussion with Phil himself on here.
There's not much chance of you ever seeing that many new faces on the board as it's pretty much a closed shop....
They all vote for each other etc.
I have suggested fixed term with periods of disqualification from re-election to help injection of "new blood" but nothing has changed, so.... Same old, same old. | | | |
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