| Progression, stagnation or regression? 08:32 - Feb 9 with 14580 views | TalkingSutty |
Trying to make comparisons from one season to the next is obviously dictated by the performance of the players within the squad. Bad luck with injuries and financial constraints also play a part so sometimes the managers hands are tied when it comes to improvement.
This is turning into a pretty weird season and when you start to look through the squad of players how many have improved, stagnated or progressed? You would expect the younger players to improve and the older ones to maybe stagnate or possibly regress.
Would it be negative of me to suggest that the amount of players who have actually progressed isn't very many? Callum Camps springs to mind as a progression but on the flip side Peter Vincenti has shown regression, is that harsh? Jamie Allen seems to have stagnated for instance. Obviously there can be valid reasons like carrying a injury or being played out of position.
I think it's pretty obvious Hillys got a lot of shape shifting to do during the summer months, a lot of squad players are not contributing to the first team.
Which players would fit into each category for this current season? [Post edited 9 Feb 2016 8:46]
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 09:03 - Feb 9 with 11094 views | aleanddale |
Been away TS?
Camps an obvious progression..
Think we have stand out ability players like Allen, Hendo and Lund so even with a slight regress there and they are still our best players.
Just think all the rest are typical lower league 1 players.. Capable of brilliance but very inconsistent. There lies the problem. Pump them full of confidence and encourage them to fly is the trick IMO and I think it's a confidence thing more than ability. |  | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 09:11 - Feb 9 with 11080 views | sandy_dale |
I think consistency is the issue here not "regression" or "stagnation". Hendo and Vincenti are both fantastic players no one can deny that. But they are playing at Rochdale in League one for a reason, that being the inability to consistently be at their top level. As for Jamie Allen, he is a young lad who has had a fairly lengthy injury, look at Memphis Depay at United, who I only use as an example as he is at a top level, he has been a shadow of his former self at PSV, again he is a young lad. |  | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 10:43 - Feb 9 with 10986 views | TalkingSutty |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 09:03 - Feb 9 by aleanddale |
Been away TS?
Camps an obvious progression..
Think we have stand out ability players like Allen, Hendo and Lund so even with a slight regress there and they are still our best players.
Just think all the rest are typical lower league 1 players.. Capable of brilliance but very inconsistent. There lies the problem. Pump them full of confidence and encourage them to fly is the trick IMO and I think it's a confidence thing more than ability. |
Yes, a bit of winter sunshine. I thought players like Mendez Laing, Noble Lazarus, Alessandra, Mc Dermott, Eastham, Kennedy and others would have progressed in the sense of showing a real improvement, but instead they don't seem to be forcing their way into recognition.Mendez Laing certainly has the ability but there must be a reason he can't hold down a first team place.
Lack of fitness/stamina and slow recovery from injuries seems to hamper quite a few of this current squad. We seem to be carrying a bit of dead wood, that's the way it seems to me anyway. [Post edited 9 Feb 2016 10:45]
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 11:09 - Feb 9 with 10931 views | TalkingSutty |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 09:11 - Feb 9 by sandy_dale |
I think consistency is the issue here not "regression" or "stagnation". Hendo and Vincenti are both fantastic players no one can deny that. But they are playing at Rochdale in League one for a reason, that being the inability to consistently be at their top level. As for Jamie Allen, he is a young lad who has had a fairly lengthy injury, look at Memphis Depay at United, who I only use as an example as he is at a top level, he has been a shadow of his former self at PSV, again he is a young lad. |
Agree regarding Allen, he was playing very well prior to his injury. He looks a natural centre midfield and is capable of running the show from that position. Bad luck with injury means we haven't seen the best of him. Vincentis not replicated the form of last season but didn't he suffer a injury earlier in the season also?
There are mitigating circumstances for certain players and like you say,consistency of performance is the key for a lot of players at this level. It's why they are playing in League one. | | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 12:16 - Feb 9 with 10836 views | D_Alien |
I think what we're seeing is just the kind of natural cycle that most football clubs go through
We're not used to it at Dale, hence a lot of the gnashing of teeth (mine included)
For donkey's years we were perennially SHITE
During Hill's tenures we've done nothing but progress, up until this season. There's a definite sense of stagnation due to the stadium issue and concomitant financial holding period, but it's a weird version of it with us seemingly capable of punching with the best in the division yet incapable of applying the sword to teams whose league position suggests they're struggling and lacking in confidence. We've given them every chance of gaining confidence and like drowning men grabbing for a lifeline they've taken it. |  |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 13:02 - Feb 9 with 10703 views | dingdangblue |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 12:16 - Feb 9 by D_Alien |
I think what we're seeing is just the kind of natural cycle that most football clubs go through
We're not used to it at Dale, hence a lot of the gnashing of teeth (mine included)
For donkey's years we were perennially SHITE
During Hill's tenures we've done nothing but progress, up until this season. There's a definite sense of stagnation due to the stadium issue and concomitant financial holding period, but it's a weird version of it with us seemingly capable of punching with the best in the division yet incapable of applying the sword to teams whose league position suggests they're struggling and lacking in confidence. We've given them every chance of gaining confidence and like drowning men grabbing for a lifeline they've taken it. |
Its not too dissimilar to last season really. Having looked - by the end of February we had lost 4 out of 5 that month and ended with 41 points going into March. There's a chance with just 2 wins in the remaining games in February we will be ahead of last season! |  |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 14:38 - Feb 9 with 10536 views | 49thseason |
The second season syndrome, if it really exists, is more to do with players than systems etc. and consequently, opposition teams are probably better able to fathom what our players are capable of and where the weaknesses are. Its also a bonus to play on the back of a promotion season when confidence is high.
I think KH will be disappointed by a number of players this season so far. There is no doubt in my mind that we have missed Logan in goal, Alessandra looks to have pissed on his own chips somehow, Allen, Bennett, Rafferty and Lund have all been injury- affected, and McDermott has not blossomed as many thought he might (and that's not to say he won't be better next season if he stays). Some of the senior pro's have probably carried a heavier burden than KH might have expected pre-season and a couple of younger players - Tanser and Cannon seem to have been very inconsistent and although its obviously more difficult to bring on youngsters in a higher division ,I think KH would have expected more.
All in all I think we are doing OK and its still very possible for us to beat last seasons points total but overall a lower-mid table finish would , in the light of injuries, lack of investment, inconsistent youger players etc. be a creditable season. |  | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 16:24 - Feb 9 with 10436 views | borntogo |
I don't think we're really in any position to judge on this issue because most of the squad have not been given a fair chance (Mendez-Laing, Alessandra, Tanser, Eastham, Hooper) while others have been played while under-performing woefully (McNulty, Lancashire, Lund, Rose, Kennedy, Henderson).
The only person we CAN judge is Keith Hill who has assembled a reasonable squad but picked either the wrong team from it time and time again or employed the wrong tactics.
Our away form is abysmal and has needed a re-think for over a year. While confidence is a great quality in football, it sometimes borders on stubbornness. I wonder if this has been the reason why we've seen the same doomed tactics (cautious, defensive, dull) used away from home so often. | | | |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 18:40 - Feb 9 with 10278 views | ChaffRAFC |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 16:24 - Feb 9 by borntogo |
I don't think we're really in any position to judge on this issue because most of the squad have not been given a fair chance (Mendez-Laing, Alessandra, Tanser, Eastham, Hooper) while others have been played while under-performing woefully (McNulty, Lancashire, Lund, Rose, Kennedy, Henderson).
The only person we CAN judge is Keith Hill who has assembled a reasonable squad but picked either the wrong team from it time and time again or employed the wrong tactics.
Our away form is abysmal and has needed a re-think for over a year. While confidence is a great quality in football, it sometimes borders on stubbornness. I wonder if this has been the reason why we've seen the same doomed tactics (cautious, defensive, dull) used away from home so often. |
Think that's harsh on Henderson. He's still our top scorer and still has 11 goals in 27 starts this season despite being injured for a period. Just because he's not banging in 25 goals this season doesn't mean he's underperformed. Lund has hit a decent run of form since coming back from injury but injuries have halted his progress more than anything. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 20:25 - Feb 9 with 10127 views | macro |
Dale are a team in need of ‘upgrading.’
I’d say there’s going to be a big overhaul in the summer, particularly defensively. |  | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 23:06 - Feb 9 with 9995 views | RAFCBLUE |
I'll be controversial and say "Progression"
In my Dale supporting life since 1986, this is season four in Divison 3.
The last time (season 2) we ended up bottom with a Steve Err & Soft Lad.
Hill will keep us up, making this our best two seasons consecutively for over 35 years.
That said, continued sh*te defending and a goalkeeper who struggles at this level will frustrate many, including me. Club also needs more to attract floating and exiled supporters. |  |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 05:06 - Feb 10 with 9923 views | TalkingSutty |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 23:06 - Feb 9 by RAFCBLUE |
I'll be controversial and say "Progression"
In my Dale supporting life since 1986, this is season four in Divison 3.
The last time (season 2) we ended up bottom with a Steve Err & Soft Lad.
Hill will keep us up, making this our best two seasons consecutively for over 35 years.
That said, continued sh*te defending and a goalkeeper who struggles at this level will frustrate many, including me. Club also needs more to attract floating and exiled supporters. |
The question I posed at the start of the thread wasn't about the progression of the team over the years it was to try to draw a comparison with last season and aimed at individual players within the squad. How many have improved their performances compared to last season?
You don't even have to single out individual players and like I said there are mitigating circumstances to be made for players not improving, such as injuries or maybe being played out of position to accommodate the team. Even the issues surrounding the Stadium purchase could be impacting the players indirectly.
Hilly would be looking for progression from his players season on season, but how many in the squad have lived up to his expectations? Personally I think there are quite a few in the squad picking up a wage for doing very little, bits and pieces players.
Like I said, it's a weird season because it seems the quality of the squad is being compromised to accommodate the on going stadium issue, something which I am sure most supporters understand. It can become a bit demoralising though and isn't a good recipe to attract floating fans. It's important to look at the bigger picture and Hilly needs praising because a lot of managers wouldn't put up with that.
The circumstances aren't easy for the senior players at the club, they see the quality of the squad and rather than constant progression we seem to be treading water and just aiming for the 50 point mark, it's not a very exciting prospect for them and I wonder if that's why their performances are up and down. Bottom line, the Stadium issue is now really starting to hamper the Club and it needs sorting out, preferably whilst we are still a league one club. [Post edited 10 Feb 2016 6:00]
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 07:52 - Feb 10 with 9857 views | Nigeriamark |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 05:06 - Feb 10 by TalkingSutty |
The question I posed at the start of the thread wasn't about the progression of the team over the years it was to try to draw a comparison with last season and aimed at individual players within the squad. How many have improved their performances compared to last season?
You don't even have to single out individual players and like I said there are mitigating circumstances to be made for players not improving, such as injuries or maybe being played out of position to accommodate the team. Even the issues surrounding the Stadium purchase could be impacting the players indirectly.
Hilly would be looking for progression from his players season on season, but how many in the squad have lived up to his expectations? Personally I think there are quite a few in the squad picking up a wage for doing very little, bits and pieces players.
Like I said, it's a weird season because it seems the quality of the squad is being compromised to accommodate the on going stadium issue, something which I am sure most supporters understand. It can become a bit demoralising though and isn't a good recipe to attract floating fans. It's important to look at the bigger picture and Hilly needs praising because a lot of managers wouldn't put up with that.
The circumstances aren't easy for the senior players at the club, they see the quality of the squad and rather than constant progression we seem to be treading water and just aiming for the 50 point mark, it's not a very exciting prospect for them and I wonder if that's why their performances are up and down. Bottom line, the Stadium issue is now really starting to hamper the Club and it needs sorting out, preferably whilst we are still a league one club. [Post edited 10 Feb 2016 6:00]
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If I was to play devil's advocate, what about Hilly
Looks like we may end up with a similar number of points as last season, but:-
Has his team selection been quite as good as last season?
Has his tactical acumen improved? Is he more flexible/stubborn than last year?
Are we playing less exciting football than last year?
Has he used the loan system as well as lest year?
Is his man management of the players as good as last season?
How about communication skills to the fans better, worse or the same?
Just posting this for a bit of honest debate. Some questions are very subjective as other factors may have changed v last season
In my view I would not wan't any other manager next season, but would say this year has seen a degree of stagnation v last season - But it's all opinions |  | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 08:21 - Feb 10 with 9829 views | aleanddale |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 23:06 - Feb 9 by RAFCBLUE |
I'll be controversial and say "Progression"
In my Dale supporting life since 1986, this is season four in Divison 3.
The last time (season 2) we ended up bottom with a Steve Err & Soft Lad.
Hill will keep us up, making this our best two seasons consecutively for over 35 years.
That said, continued sh*te defending and a goalkeeper who struggles at this level will frustrate many, including me. Club also needs more to attract floating and exiled supporters. |
I wish I had written what RAFCBLUE put.
Summed up perfectly and wow the best two consecutive seasons in 35 years.
The final sentence being addressed by the club I hope!
Cheeky 1-0 win on Saturday would not go amiss!.
Up the Dale. | | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 13:58 - Feb 10 with 9716 views | D_Alien |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 07:52 - Feb 10 by Nigeriamark |
If I was to play devil's advocate, what about Hilly
Looks like we may end up with a similar number of points as last season, but:-
Has his team selection been quite as good as last season?
Has his tactical acumen improved? Is he more flexible/stubborn than last year?
Are we playing less exciting football than last year?
Has he used the loan system as well as lest year?
Is his man management of the players as good as last season?
How about communication skills to the fans better, worse or the same?
Just posting this for a bit of honest debate. Some questions are very subjective as other factors may have changed v last season
In my view I would not wan't any other manager next season, but would say this year has seen a degree of stagnation v last season - But it's all opinions |
Interesting perspective Nigeriamark
Hilly's at the mid-point of his career, and he can stick or twist
He's already twisted once and doing so again at the wrong club (he wanted to go elsewhere in 2011 but jumped at Barnsley when his original hopes were dashed) would be a disaster for him
I think he's coming round to the idea of sticking, and is being patient whilst the stadium issue is resolved. Thing is, many of his pronouncements indicate an internal struggle to come to terms with his career choice, which is what happens in many "relationships" to which he's alluded recently.
In that sense, he's progressing (and last Saturday's post-match interview seems to suggest that too) not stagnating. Certainly not regressing. Going back to TS's original point, the players must sense the struggle their manager's been going through and that can only transmit into what we've seen - inconsistency.
On the point about our best players having to pull the stops out whilst carrying less talented players - surely that applies at all except the very top clubs? To coin another phrase, if they're finding it difficult to do that here, that's why they're here. | |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 14:54 - Feb 10 with 9664 views | Porlicks |
Regression towards the mean.
The worst players will seem better, the best players will seem worse, the ones in the middle won't change much. |  |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 18:39 - Feb 10 with 9570 views | 1mark1 |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 07:52 - Feb 10 by Nigeriamark |
If I was to play devil's advocate, what about Hilly
Looks like we may end up with a similar number of points as last season, but:-
Has his team selection been quite as good as last season?
Has his tactical acumen improved? Is he more flexible/stubborn than last year?
Are we playing less exciting football than last year?
Has he used the loan system as well as lest year?
Is his man management of the players as good as last season?
How about communication skills to the fans better, worse or the same?
Just posting this for a bit of honest debate. Some questions are very subjective as other factors may have changed v last season
In my view I would not wan't any other manager next season, but would say this year has seen a degree of stagnation v last season - But it's all opinions |
I will give my own views in one word answers re Hilly.
Has his team selection been quite as good as last season? No
Has his tactical acumen improved? Is he more flexible/stubborn than last year? No. More stubborn.
Are we playing less exciting football than last year? Yes
Has he used the loan system as well as lest year? No
Is his man management of the players as good as last season? No
How about communication skills to the fans better, worse or the same? Same
Mind you many of the players have not performed as well, and possibly that has made Hilly,s job harder, as well as the continuing saga of the Stadium, maybe having an effect on finances. |  |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 20:24 - Feb 10 with 9494 views | R17ALE |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 07:52 - Feb 10 by Nigeriamark |
If I was to play devil's advocate, what about Hilly
Looks like we may end up with a similar number of points as last season, but:-
Has his team selection been quite as good as last season?
Has his tactical acumen improved? Is he more flexible/stubborn than last year?
Are we playing less exciting football than last year?
Has he used the loan system as well as lest year?
Is his man management of the players as good as last season?
How about communication skills to the fans better, worse or the same?
Just posting this for a bit of honest debate. Some questions are very subjective as other factors may have changed v last season
In my view I would not wan't any other manager next season, but would say this year has seen a degree of stagnation v last season - But it's all opinions |
I know you're provoking honest debate, but the choice and wording of your questions does lead any respondent down the same path.
"Has he used the loan system as well as lest year?" could easily have read, "could he have used the loan system better this year?"
And no-one can answer the man management question with any knowledge other than the players.
Besides he can only manage with what he has at his disposal. Lets be honest, we're a Hogan or Done short of being top ten, and a Logan in goal as well would probably see us top six. So we're not doing too badly overall.
And if we can discover another Hogan or Done, questions like
"Are we playing less exciting football than last year?" will be irrelevant.
A fairer question would be to ask, "where's our next 20 goals a season striker going to come from?"
And your "How about communication skills to the fans better, worse or the same?" question should have said, "whilst noting he can only answer the questions he is asked, have the interviewers improved?" The answer to that is definitely no.
And for stagnation I would use consolidation.
Other than that, you're spot on!! |  |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 20:45 - Feb 10 with 9451 views | PassmondsBlue |
I think that this season has been already a success, we have pretty much CONSOLIDATED our position as a League 1 club, OK had some indifferent results and some one off hard to take defeats but, we have beaten clubs who are at the top of the division and clubs we have no given right to beat.
I can remember when we had players such as Mark Hilditch, Barry Wellings and Keith Hill in our team and as they always gave their all for the Dale did not have the talent that we see in todays squad. We have witnessed in the last 5 - 10 years some of the best players coming through our club that any Dale fan has ever seen so lets enjoy it and pray it continues.
Last night I went to see MK Dons v Middlesbrough play and although the game was not the spectacle a neutral fan would want to see the quality of the players was better than any player we have watched at Dale this season (home team or away team). This leads me to finish on exactly what our visionary manager states time and time again, that we live within our means, play the game the right way, develop players, strengthen from within, consolidate our position year on year and collectively enjoy the ride.
[Post edited 10 Feb 2016 20:49]
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 21:32 - Feb 10 with 9388 views | TalkingSutty |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 20:24 - Feb 10 by R17ALE |
I know you're provoking honest debate, but the choice and wording of your questions does lead any respondent down the same path.
"Has he used the loan system as well as lest year?" could easily have read, "could he have used the loan system better this year?"
And no-one can answer the man management question with any knowledge other than the players.
Besides he can only manage with what he has at his disposal. Lets be honest, we're a Hogan or Done short of being top ten, and a Logan in goal as well would probably see us top six. So we're not doing too badly overall.
And if we can discover another Hogan or Done, questions like
"Are we playing less exciting football than last year?" will be irrelevant.
A fairer question would be to ask, "where's our next 20 goals a season striker going to come from?"
And your "How about communication skills to the fans better, worse or the same?" question should have said, "whilst noting he can only answer the questions he is asked, have the interviewers improved?" The answer to that is definitely no.
And for stagnation I would use consolidation.
Other than that, you're spot on!! |
The threads relating to the players though, when you make comparisons with last season how many have progressed and improved? Consolidation is a good word but it's better used in the context of the overall team rather than individual players. The team are on target to consolidate though, hopefully.
An example of poor man management would be his public comments regarding Andy Cannon and Joe Bunney earlier in the season or the dropping of Lillis when at the time he was the most consistent player in the team. The scenario with that kid from United made Hilly look pretty weak, it was like the Okey Cokey with the youngster pulling the strings. Maybe Alessandra could have been our twenty goal a season man?
Hillys communication skills in the media can't be camouflaged by putting the blame on the interviewer, it's all his own work. | | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 21:50 - Feb 10 with 9358 views | PassmondsBlue |
True Mr Hill is not the football pundit that you see on MOTD or any other TV show but neither was Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho. What I want to see in a manager is someone who can spot talent and blend the a squad of players to better themselves, better the team and take the club forward as is happening now.
Some might say that dropping Lillis, publicly calling Bunny and Cannon was bad man management others might have a more educated view and see it as challenging them to become stronger, better and have more determination to fight for there place and the team cause, should they be good enough to go up a level. I say inspired leadership not poor management. | |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 22:00 - Feb 10 with 9343 views | TalkingSutty |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 21:50 - Feb 10 by PassmondsBlue |
True Mr Hill is not the football pundit that you see on MOTD or any other TV show but neither was Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho. What I want to see in a manager is someone who can spot talent and blend the a squad of players to better themselves, better the team and take the club forward as is happening now.
Some might say that dropping Lillis, publicly calling Bunny and Cannon was bad man management others might have a more educated view and see it as challenging them to become stronger, better and have more determination to fight for there place and the team cause, should they be good enough to go up a level. I say inspired leadership not poor management. |
Whatever it was it didn't result in improved performances from the pair. In fact, Cannon just started sacrificing himself with tackles that could only result in him getting injured. Going public with his comments did neither player any favours at a time when other senior players needed to pull their fingers out.
That's my uneducated view anyway
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 22:19 - Feb 10 with 9311 views | PassmondsBlue |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 22:00 - Feb 10 by TalkingSutty |
Whatever it was it didn't result in improved performances from the pair. In fact, Cannon just started sacrificing himself with tackles that could only result in him getting injured. Going public with his comments did neither player any favours at a time when other senior players needed to pull their fingers out.
That's my uneducated view anyway
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I except your view and as I said "should they be good enough to go up a level". I think we all want the same thing and there will always be diamonds (not Barry but more Done, Hogan, COG, Holt, Lambert, Dawson etc.) and the Donnelly's and Shaw's a possibly only time will tell Lewis Alessandra.
We have to trust Hilly to get more right than he gets wrong, after all he has a pretty good track record for us. Also lets not forget the type of football we had to put up with before him - Eyre, Coleman and Parkin, how far do we have to go back? | |
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| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 22:24 - Feb 10 with 9304 views | nordenblue |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 21:50 - Feb 10 by PassmondsBlue |
True Mr Hill is not the football pundit that you see on MOTD or any other TV show but neither was Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho. What I want to see in a manager is someone who can spot talent and blend the a squad of players to better themselves, better the team and take the club forward as is happening now.
Some might say that dropping Lillis, publicly calling Bunny and Cannon was bad man management others might have a more educated view and see it as challenging them to become stronger, better and have more determination to fight for there place and the team cause, should they be good enough to go up a level. I say inspired leadership not poor management. |
Publicly humiliating a player is in no way constructive to improve their performance and only damages confidence.
If he had decent man management skills he'd pull them to one side to explain his decision/comments,we're not dealing with army trainees here. | | | |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 22:38 - Feb 10 with 9281 views | PassmondsBlue |
| Progression, stagnation or regression? on 22:24 - Feb 10 by nordenblue |
Publicly humiliating a player is in no way constructive to improve their performance and only damages confidence.
If he had decent man management skills he'd pull them to one side to explain his decision/comments,we're not dealing with army trainees here. |
Nor kindergarten infants who will cry until morning break
He is dealing with mercenary grown men who would find another employer for a few quid more. What Rochdale offer is an opportunity to develop and progress under the guidance of the coaches, and manager, and if they cant take the truth and the facts will not survive in the professional football environment.
What I also find very hard to understand is the fact that after every poor team performance this site goes mad calling for the same players to be dropped, sold, given away to a non-league club on loan, publicly flogged, branded a leper etc. and when our manager protects those players and tries to develop them we have a go at him too. Double standards???? | |
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