Stevedore is back with another look at what is fact and what is fiction with regard to the increasingly desperate claims of the fans of the World's best supporterd Club.

One of the proudest boasts of the Blue Few is that they are the club with all the tradition and all the history, true they have won a couple of league Titles which we havent, but then again so have the likes of Burnley, Preston & Huddersfield and no one calls them sleeping giants, in order to put this all in context i think first we need a history lesson.

The Football League was formed in 1888, three years after Saints were formed and eleven before Portsmouth were formed, back then the FL was very much a northern competition, the most southerly clubs were in Birmingham at this stage Association Football or Soccer as it was widely called back then, was second to Rugby Union in the South.

The response from the major clubs starting to emerge in the South was the Southern League in 1894, although obviosly not as big and strong as its northern counterpart it was the league for the teams south of Birmingham and in effect as the decade wore on its teams became stronger and stronger, the only exceptions to the north south divide were Arsenal and Chelsea who were formed out of nowere to join the Football league with express exploiting the FL opportunities which due to the popularity of the game in the north was the stronger league, up until 1920 when the Football league expanded to take in Southern Clubs , these two and Bristol City were the only teams south of Birmingham in the FL

So the Southern Leaguie was a very strong league given that it contained just about every professional team south of the midlands, Saints won it first in 1896/97 and then for the next two seasons after, meaning that before Portsmouth Football Club had kicked a ball in competitive football, Saints had three Southern League titles to their name plus an FA Cup Semi final appearance to emphasise how strong both Saints and indeed the league was when compared to its northern counterparts,

As they formed the Club the Pompey directors visited the Newly opened Dell, quite literally it was the blueprint of what they wanted to achieve, it was the best stadium south of Birmingham, so it was no surprise that when the first game was played at Fratton Park in September 1899, it was Saints that Pompey invited to come down and open the stadium, but this was not only done for local reasons, no, apart from Aston Villa the team of the moment or Sheffield United the FA Cup holders, there werent that many more attractive opponents in the country than Saints.

In 1899/00 the newly formed Pompey joined the league, ironically replacing Portsmouth Royal Artillery who seeing the formation of a professional club in the town decided to drop out of the Southern League rather than relinquish their amateur status, the newly formed Pompey were seen as a fabricated club, a johnny come lately to the football scene, formed only to make money out of the newly legalised professionalism, splashing out for the ex Spurs manager and gettiing in the best players, taking a financial risk at this point as they had no supporters, that crowds would flock to their new purpose built ground at Fratton they were not a traditional club who had paid their dues and built up their support, in modern terms they would be Milton Keynes Dons or Wigan.

In 1899/00 Spurs won the Southern League, but Saints got to the FA Cup final although they lost 4-0 to Bury, Pompey were learning that it wasnt as easy as buying your way to the top.

But if Pompey had thought they could buy their way to being the top club in Hampshire they were wrong, Saints won the league title again in 00/01, their fourth title success out of the seven years the league had been in operation, in 01/02 Pompey did win it but that was overshadowed by Saints second FA Cup final appearance in which sadly they lost again, this time in a replay to Sheffield United, but 02/03 & 03/04 saw the title back at the Dell, this perhaps saw the end of the first golden age for Saints, but by 1904 Saints had won the title six times out of the first ten seasons of the Southern League compared to Pompey's solitary effort, at this time Saints were considered the top club South of Birmingham, although Arsenal were in the Football League they were still playing in Woolwich and struggling for money and crowds, Spurs would stay in the Southern League but could not match Saints acheivments and although the period between 1904 and the first world war would not be prolific for Saints, especially as the Southern League grew stronger as clubs like West Ham joined, Pompey would do no better.

So those Portsmouth fans that tell you that Pompey are the club with all the history and Saints are jumped up upstarts, clearly dont understand the demographics of the formation and early years of both the Football and Southern Leagues, yes Pompey would enjoy all their success in a thirty five year period between 1925 - 1960 when they would mostly be in a division higher than Saints, they do not have the rich heritage that Saints have from those Victorian days of when the Southern League was the title to win for any club in the South and Saints were the Old Invincibles equivalent of Preston North End in the Northern Counterpart

Pompey have only 114 years of history compared to Saints 127 and in those 114 years in which the two clubs have been rivals, Pompey have only finished above Saints on 43 occasions, yes Pompey do have those modern day League Championships to their name, but when they claim to be this great club with rich history and a sleeping giant etc, they would do well to look at Burnley Preston & Huddersfield , all clubs with a far richer history than Portsmouth and with a similar level of support as Pompey, would any right minded football supporter consider anyone of these clubs to be massive and a sleeping gian just waiting to be awakened ? I think even Pompey fans know the answer to that one, the only difference between those clubs and Pompey, apart from the fact they have all won more, is that their fans dont go around telling anyone and everyone that they are the greatest fans in the world anf hope that if they shout it loud enough to enough people then people will start to believe it.

Fair play to Pompey for winning a couple of titles in the 50's, the nature of football is probably that we will never get a chance to equal that, but Pompey fans should not confuse winning a couple of things sixty years ago with having a rich history, for most of their existence Pompey have been second fiddle to Saints, a club that was at the time Pompey were formed considered one of the top clubs in the country whilst Pompey and its directors were considered as opportunists jumping on the football bandwagon

Photo: Action Images

Happy_Jack added 13:57 - Feb 27 *pulls up a seat and puts the kettle on*
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patred added 14:10 - Feb 27 whistling whilst waiting for the shout.... in coming!
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mox888 added 14:22 - Feb 27 Naa...skates don't comment on factual reporting. Thanks for that...an interesting read :+)
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Dinksy added 14:26 - Feb 27 LMAO. Talk about desperate! I don't think Joseph Goebbels could have done a better job at twisting the truth. What a shame that Saints' fans carry such a huge chip on their shoulders that they feel they have to resort to this tripe to make themselves feel better. Why can't we all agree that Saints have a LONGER history than Pompey, not necessary richer, deeper, better etc. That Pompey's golden era was in the early Fifties. That during the Seventies, Saints came to be the dominant football force. That the tide turned in Pompey's favour in the first decade of the 21st Century as it is about to again. What a shame that the stripey ones cannot accept the fact that Pompey's record of two League Championships and two FA Cups is a record that they will NEVER overcome? I believe there you have the source of their angst. Yes, it is sad. Very sad indeed.

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SaintNick added 14:31 - Feb 27 All i would ask is how has stevedore twisted the truth ? he has quoted pure fact and acknowledges Pompeys triumphs, but dinksy has his fingers in his ears and his hands over his eyes i think here
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pompeytillidie added 14:33 - Feb 27 You have got it REAL bad son havent you!!!!!!!!
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SaintNick added 14:40 - Feb 27 what I cant understand is that pompey fans spend all their times at games screaming "scummer" at anyone who has ever had any connection with Southampton for the last 50 years yet the moment someone pokes a bit of fun at them, they start to shout loudly that its us that is obsessed and not them Perhaps Pompeytillidie would like to tell me what a good scumming is, I have never heard the phrase a good skating etc.

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Happy_Jack added 14:43 - Feb 27 Is it anything to do with household cleaning products?
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SaintMary added 14:52 - Feb 27 I have been a Saints fan for almost 50 years and have seen many changes to both clubs in that time - one might say out of all recognition. But the thing that has changed most has been this silly animosity between the fans. In the 60's there was a tremendous rivalry but also healthy respect for the history and traditions of each club. I am completely proud of Saints record as a club, especially during our halcyon years in the 70s and I do not need to rummage around in the 19th Century for supposed FACTS to PROVE we are better. Who cares what went on in Southern League for goodness sake. It's not quite the same as winning the English national league, is it? And now we are on the up again and Pompey are heading the other way. Well, that's how it has always been - see-saw. And while always being a Saint through and through I, four one, am not going to take anything away from our blue neighbours in their League Championship winning and Fa Cup winning record which they can be rightly proud of. We can also we proud and do not need embarrassing articles like this which bring us little credit.

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SaintNick added 15:02 - Feb 27 I think what some peo[ple need to realise is that Stevedore's articles are a little tongue in cheek
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dune added 15:10 - Feb 27 A great read, although I prefer to look to the future and the future is very bright for us.
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Dont_Panic added 15:16 - Feb 27 When Tamworth won the Southern League in the 2001/2 they displayed the rather splendid trophy (it's a wooden shield about 5ft across) in the local shopping centre, and it was great to see how The Saints dominated the early days of the league.
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st_mike added 15:16 - Feb 27 I'm really proud to have been a Saints fan, through good and bad, for over 40 years, I'm proud of our achievements and of our reputation. Portsmouth fans seem to lack something, and appear to take it out on us. They're always going on about what great fans they are, but you only need to look at their attendances to see that it's just not true! The difference is we let our actions speak for themselves, we don't need to keep telling everyone how great we are!

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Dinksy added 15:32 - Feb 27 St mike ".....we don't need to keep telling everyone how great we are! " Exactly what the above article is doing! No chip on the shoulder there. Derrr.....
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spectre added 15:35 - Feb 27 this is a good read and probably correct as the writer will surely have checked all the facts BUT its history both sets of fans surely should realise that its the present and the future that counts not whats gone before . i am a pompey fan been so for 60 years but i see a saints team on the up whilst we are moving down how far down depends on several circumstances .i hate these forums where the unneccessary slanging ,quite disdusting at times ,gets past the moderators we are all football fans and its obvious we support our home teams good luck to saints and much better luck to our team which at moment needs it and i hope we get enough to keep us alive pup

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Dinksy added 16:09 - Feb 27 Well said Spectre. We are down but at least we are keeping our dignity
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Capt_Koons added 16:11 - Feb 27 Great article dealing purely in facts. Something the blue dew wouldn't recognise if it jumped up and bit them on the ass.
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Angelic_Saint added 16:20 - Feb 27 Stop being beastly to PoorOld Pompey (everyone say aagh as if someone has told you their cat has died) for they will soon be like Monty Python's Parrot: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! PFC is no more! It has ceased to be! 'it has expired and gone to meet its maker! Its a stiff! Bereft of life, its rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! its off the twig! 'its kicked the bucket, its shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! PFC IS AN EX-FOOTBALL CLUB!

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Dinksy added 16:42 - Feb 27 Yeah, great article. And you only had to go back to 1896 to find something to be proud of.
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grumpy added 16:57 - Feb 27 Oh!so now you don't want to talk history,Dinksy ?Whys that then?
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StrasbourgSaint added 17:11 - Feb 27 "Pompey and its directors were considered as opportunists jumping on the football bandwagon ." And I thought history didn't repeat itself!
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Whatsforpud added 17:12 - Feb 27 I believe there are two criteria for ascertaining the size and standing of a football club. Past achievement and level of support. It is true that Saints were top of the tree in the earliest days, and Pompey had those two First Division titles in the early post war years. Since then, we have both had good times and bad. It would be interesting to know how many wins, draws and loses there have been for each, from the year Pompey arrived. The support aspect is always interesting. From past times (I go back to the early 50s), when grounds were mainly for standing-up in, Fratton Park held more than the Dell, and probably had bigger average crowds, especially during and after winning those titles. However, since the arrival of St Mary's, Saints have been far better supported, irrespective of which Division we have been in. Although the City of Southampton is more populated than the City of Portsmouth, I would think that the catchment areas are of a similar size. We have Waterside, Eastleigh, Winchester, they have Fareham, Gosport, Havant area. I think that die-hard Pompey fans would be disappointed in averaging 14k, especially in the club's hour of need. Again a comparison of attendances over the years would make interesting reading. Although I hope to see Saints get one up on Pompey every week, I do hope that they pull out of the mess, as I think a football club is the heartbeat of any city.

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spectre added 17:59 - Feb 27 angelic saint its not over yet 16 games to go to those knocking its always wise to count your chickens first and this ole cockrel aint beat yet still life there yet watch this space....when its done its done and we will move on from wherever pup
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Dperc added 19:08 - Feb 27 This article is unnecessarily insecure and frankly quite embarrassing. The tongue in cheek attempt is lost on me. Who gives a flying #### what happened over a century ago when trying to argue over who the bigger club is? Just take a look at the league table, the attendance, the number of years in the EPL, the players, the stadium, the facilities, the youth team successes.

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zonehead added 19:36 - Feb 27 We both need each other, without our historic rivalry there would be no point.
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