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During the 10 years to 2018 when they were in the PL, they averaged c.27k (highest finish 12th.)
Since relegation, their crowds have gone down to the 20-22k mark.
That said, in the five Championship seasons before their PL spell (2003-2008), their crowds were only around the 15k mark, so it could be argued they're doing well to hold onto at least some of their PL support, esp considering the dross they've been serving up on the field.
Meanwhile, back on topic (kinda), as I understand it, the UK State Pension is not generous when compared with other countries with similar economies and development. However, we are making better progress than many of those in persuading people to save into private pensions.
Also by extending the age at which people are eligible, we should have a better chance of avoiding unaffordability due to the demographic timebomb facing many other countries. (France, where it's 62-64 depending when born, is especially vulnerable, with Macron facing huge problems in trying to extend.)
@Davman: "And there is no way on earth Benham... ... wants to keep the EFL 'strong' - do not be so ridiculous. Why should [he] worry about anyone else?"
So long as Bees are in the Prem, it shouldn't really worry him whether the EFL is 'strong' or not.
But since he readily admits that the club could go down anytime, it is in his interest to have a (financially) strong EFL to drop into, hence his voting for more money for the EFL, as 'Switching Code' pointed out.
Moreover, despite not being super rich himself, at least by PL standards, he also disagrees with the Profit & Sustainability Rules in the PL, whereby clubs may only spend a proportion of what they earn i.e. wealthy owners (like QPR's?) cannot put their own money in, over and above footballing revenues. (This entrenches the position of the Big Six etc, who generate far more than the smaller clubs.)
And as for parachute payments, of course that gives relegated clubs a huge advantage, but even there it might be overstated. For as a (paywalled) article in 'The Athletic' pointed out, up to the end of season 2022/23: "... of the 81 teams relegated from domestic football’s elite division since 1995-96, only 22 (around 27 per cent) bounced straight back. On average, less than one relegated team a season returns to the top flight one year later."
Of course some more will have bounced back up in their second or third season i.e. while still in recept of parachute payments. But even there the payments are reduced should a team have lasted only a single season in the PL.
All of which means that while the present financial set-up is just one more obstacle for clubs to overcome, albeit a very high one, ultimately good management counts for more than finances.
Which is why eg Brentford, Brighton, Fulham & Bournemouth are all ahead of moneybags Man U in the league table.
The excellent Swiss Ramble did a very detailed financial analysis of the costs/benefits/drawbacks etc of promotion, not just from Champ to Prem, but also from Lge One to Champ and Lge Two to Lge One.
@davman "I cannot see things changing unless the spending rules change, which they won't or the PL supports the EFL, which it won't. The most galling thing for me isn't that Liverpool, Chel***, Man U, Man C, Arsenal, etc. don't care, but that your lot and all other "little clubs" seem to have forgotten where they have come from and won't support the EFL just in case one of the other clubs takes their place. Whilst they have, they'll keep and f**k everyone else... "
How exactly have Bees and the other little 'uns forgotten "where they have come from"? (Genuine question)
Obviously I can't speak for the others, but as regards Bees, owner Matthew Benham is on the record as acknowledging that it would only take one bad/unlucky season to see them relegated again - he certainly doesn't discount that possibility, even if our three seasons to date have been safe enough.
In which case, it would surely be in his own interests to keep the EFL strong?
Besides which, it would take a 2/3rds majority (i.e. 14 clubs) to vote through any major change to the financial settlement between the PL and EFL, meaning that so long as the Big Six stick together (they will), then they only need to persuade a Villa or a Newcastle to join them (they will, too) and there's nothing the other "little clubs" can do.
Re Luton, I imagine they saw promotion to the PL as an unexpected bonus, and are now using the windfall to help fund their new stadium.
For even if they go down again, the stadium can help secure the club's future over the long term.
P.S. Luton were in the old First Division during its last season and voted for the new PL . Then they got relegated and had to wait 30-odd years to play in it! They were eventually the 51st club to play in the Prem, Brentford having been the 50th.
As for Salah, his stats prove he's unquestionably a great player - and that's without playing for a top national team, like eg Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappe etc.
Only thing I'd add is that style-wise, Salah possibly doesn't excite quite so much as more flamboyant players, hence reservations about his worth?
Re. competitiveness, we forget that back in the day when the (old) First Division was 22 clubs, there were fewer European places and only two teams got relegated, there was a whole raft of mid-table clubs who had little or nothing to play for during the last third of the season. This must have led to a lot of mediocre games.
Second, we could solve a lot of problems by reducing the PL to 18 clubs, as originally envisaged, while distributing the money teams 19 and 20 would normally get (£250m p.a.?) throughout the EFL instead (though excluding those clubs which have parachute money).
All tickets for Away fans in the PL are capped at £30, and have been for some time. While some clubs (I think) reduce it further for Concessions, though usually only by a couple of quid.
One of the few things decent about PL ticketing etc, especially since it must properly piss off the likes of Ratcliffe, Brady and Levy etc.
Madrí lager has never been brewed in Spain, let alone Madrid. In fact four years ago, Madrí didn’t even exist. Yet today, this faux Spanish lager is sold in a quarter of British pubs, which makes it one of the fastest-growing beers of all time.
While ‘Madrí’ is the historic name for Madrid, which is peculiar for a beer brewed in Tadcaster – or Tada as the Anglo-Saxon mead-drinkers called it - with the brand being owned and produced by American/Canadian brewing giants Molson Coors.
(Thanks to Chris McPhail of 'The Spectator' for the above)
On this question of tallest buildings etc, Wiki has this (I know, I know): "The earliest structures now known to be the tallest in the world were the Egyptian pyramids: the Great Pyramid of Giza, at an original height of 146.5 m (481 ft), was the tallest structure in the world for over 3,800 years, until the construction of Lincoln Cathedral in 1311. From then until the completion of the Washington Monument (capped in 1884) the world's tallest structures were churches or cathedrals. Later, the Eiffel Tower and, still later, some radio masts and television towers, were the world's tallest structures."
Meanwhile, I once visited Lincoln Cathedral with a group of friends and I mentioned to one of them, an Architecture student, how amazing it was that they could build so well back then.
He pointed out that the old buildings we see still standing are often the second or third attempt, fourth even, the earlier attempts having fallen down, or needing to be rebuilt.
Meanwhile getting back to the Great Pyramid etc, not a lot of people know that with 200+ examples, Sudan has more pyramids than anywhere else in the world (Egypt has 138).
If that's directed at me, you'll note that I agree it deserved a red card. But my point was that by using his arm the way he did, it was more reckless than had he used his elbow, which would have been malicious.
But both get red carded these days, so McLean can't complain imo.
My view isn't really very different from that eg of QPR fans RBlock, Blue Castello and The Chef (page 2), so why don't you play the ball, rather than the man?
If you were trying eg to force open a jammed door, would you keep your arms straight while hitting it with your elbow, or bend your arm to concentrate the impact at the point of contact i.e. elbow itself?
As I say, it seemed more to me like an attempt to ward off a challenge which went wrong, than a deliberate attempt to stick one on him.
But if you see it differently, then fair enough.
Anyhow, to show how the game has changed over the years, this assault by Ben Thatcher on Pedro Mendes was seen by the ref and only received a yellow card!
While I genuinely don't think there was enough force, either in McLean's action, or Morgan's approach run, to see Morgan react as if poleaxed.
But as I said, the way the rules work these days, had the ref seen it, it would have been a red card, so whatever you think about the length of the ban etc, McLean/Norwich can have no complaints about being caught out.
Looking at it from my pov, I accept that these things incur a red card these days, and if McLean has "previous", then that would explain the ban being for 4 games.
That said, I genuinely don't think he was attempting to "take out" the QPR player, rather as 'RBlock' says, it was much more likely a simple attempt to ward off the run.
While I absolutely hate it when a player goes down as if poleaxed, when contact has been minimal, as looks to have been the case here. This is made worse when a player clutches his face after having been hit somewhere else on the body, in the knowledge that any contact to the head will automatically receive a red card if seen by the ref. For this is not just cheating an opponent, but also the ref and the spirit of the game generally. (Btw, I say that when it's a Bees player, too, since it's a blight on the whole game)
Finally, I don't see the relevance in this case of the QPR player being a youngster, since I doubt very much whether McLean even knew who it was he was blocking, never mind that it was a kid.
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