| Serious Disorder in Southport 21:54 - Jul 30 with 28006 views | Southamptonfan |
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/30/southport-attack-live-children-injur
All kicking off in Southport and in other parts of the country. This could unfortunately develop. A terrible tragedy, related to Islamist terrorist apparently. Mosques being attacked across the country. Its being kept quiet, but the killer is apparently a Muslim but the lack of information is not helping. National Front far right jumping on the bandwagon. The community wants answers.. [Post edited 30 Jul 22:07]
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 08:34 - Aug 1 with 1545 views | SalisburySaint |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 01:32 - Aug 1 by saint22 |
Farage spouting his garbage again that’s how
Inciting the ‘Tommy Robinson wannabees’
It’s cringeworthy
No better than the redneck trump fans |
Daily Mail, which I despise, is suggesting that a lot of hate which got rioters on streets, was inspired by Russians on bombarded social media with lies, such as saying perpertrator was an illegal immigrant |  | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 08:56 - Aug 1 with 1518 views | Heisenberg |
More rioting from the mob including emergency workers attacked. Lagered up thugs singing about their beloved Tommy Robinson. It wouldn’t surprise me if we hear it at football matches. It’s not his real name of course. There’s only one Stephen Yaxley Lennon doesn’t quite work.
These thugs think they represent a popular uprising but they are nothing of the sort. The real Britain is the volunteers and businesses who gave their own time and money to repair the damage caused by the baying mob. |  |
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| Serious Disorder in Southport (n/t) on 13:11 - Aug 1 with 1447 views | Southamptonfan |
[Post edited 1 Aug 13:14]
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 13:13 - Aug 1 with 1443 views | Southamptonfan |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cydvr9d0vd3t
Common sense prevails. Suspect named. There are some situations where public interest and security should be put before one individual's rights. Misinformation could cause serious disorder. He was known to the authorities and social services. The authorities are certainly on tender hooks about the criticism which will be coming their way. [Post edited 1 Aug 13:28]
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 14:27 - Aug 1 with 1380 views | saintsfanbrock |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 13:13 - Aug 1 by Southamptonfan |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cydvr9d0vd3t
Common sense prevails. Suspect named. There are some situations where public interest and security should be put before one individual's rights. Misinformation could cause serious disorder. He was known to the authorities and social services. The authorities are certainly on tender hooks about the criticism which will be coming their way. [Post edited 1 Aug 13:28]
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U.K. legal system prevails. Details released because of public interest by a judge as our legal system required.
What is your evidence that he was known to the authorities?
Not sure what the point you are making is in any event if he was known to them:
1. Being known to the authorities is not a crime in itself so not sure the relevance:
2. Presumably the logic is that as he is known to the authorities they should be preventing you from being able to do anything, do you want to live in a state where you can be stalked by the police on the grounds that you are known to them but don’t have you on a crime to actually arrest you?
3. Presumably a lot of people are known to the police, how would all these people be prevented from committing crimes, being watched by multiple police around the clock? | | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 14:38 - Aug 1 with 1360 views | saintmark1976 |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 13:13 - Aug 1 by Southamptonfan |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cydvr9d0vd3t
Common sense prevails. Suspect named. There are some situations where public interest and security should be put before one individual's rights. Misinformation could cause serious disorder. He was known to the authorities and social services. The authorities are certainly on tender hooks about the criticism which will be coming their way. [Post edited 1 Aug 13:28]
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Genuine question Southamptonfan.
You now know the suspects name.
What difference has this disclosure made to you and your view of the situation in general ? | |
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 14:50 - Aug 1 with 1357 views | Southamptonfan |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 14:27 - Aug 1 by saintsfanbrock |
U.K. legal system prevails. Details released because of public interest by a judge as our legal system required.
What is your evidence that he was known to the authorities?
Not sure what the point you are making is in any event if he was known to them:
1. Being known to the authorities is not a crime in itself so not sure the relevance:
2. Presumably the logic is that as he is known to the authorities they should be preventing you from being able to do anything, do you want to live in a state where you can be stalked by the police on the grounds that you are known to them but don’t have you on a crime to actually arrest you?
3. Presumably a lot of people are known to the police, how would all these people be prevented from committing crimes, being watched by multiple police around the clock? |
Yes the U.K legal system makes an exception to the rule about under 18's being named because as I said earlier in the thread, it had to. There is a wider interest to the public in this case about the safety of our children, in the fact that this was a random attack on innocent children for no apparent reason. In that case people, especially.those who have lost their kids have a right to know what the motivation was for this and I would argue those who have kids or anyone, would want to know too.There is a debate to be had about those "known to the authorities" and how tragedies should be prevented. | |
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 14:50 - Aug 1 with 1355 views | Ifonly |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 13:13 - Aug 1 by Southamptonfan |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cydvr9d0vd3t
Common sense prevails. Suspect named. There are some situations where public interest and security should be put before one individual's rights. Misinformation could cause serious disorder. He was known to the authorities and social services. The authorities are certainly on tender hooks about the criticism which will be coming their way. [Post edited 1 Aug 13:28]
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Fyi, the saying is "on tenterhooks" not "tender hooks". Tenterhooks were used to stretch woollen cloth when it was drying to prevent it from shrinking. "Tenter" comes from "tendere" which is Latin for stretch. The stretched cloth had tension, hence the phrase. | | | |
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:03 - Aug 1 with 1347 views | Southamptonfan |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 14:50 - Aug 1 by Ifonly |
Fyi, the saying is "on tenterhooks" not "tender hooks". Tenterhooks were used to stretch woollen cloth when it was drying to prevent it from shrinking. "Tenter" comes from "tendere" which is Latin for stretch. The stretched cloth had tension, hence the phrase. |
Thanks for the info. The saying goes well back in time then. | |
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:10 - Aug 1 with 1340 views | saintsfanbrock |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 14:50 - Aug 1 by Southamptonfan |
Yes the U.K legal system makes an exception to the rule about under 18's being named because as I said earlier in the thread, it had to. There is a wider interest to the public in this case about the safety of our children, in the fact that this was a random attack on innocent children for no apparent reason. In that case people, especially.those who have lost their kids have a right to know what the motivation was for this and I would argue those who have kids or anyone, would want to know too.There is a debate to be had about those "known to the authorities" and how tragedies should be prevented. |
The wider interest was the prevention of misinformation being spread online. Not sure there is a debate to be had about those known to the authorities unless you want to completely undermine our human rights.
I think there is definitely a debate to be had about the spread of misinformation and people like yourself quoting/spreading unfounded information e.g. “ related to Islamist terrorist apparently”, “ but the killer is apparently a Muslim” and “Was the killer on the radar. Was he a terrorist? People want to know I guess“
Without people like yourself there probably wouldn’t have been the added harm of the last couple of nights. | | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:20 - Aug 1 with 1320 views | Southamptonfan |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:10 - Aug 1 by saintsfanbrock |
The wider interest was the prevention of misinformation being spread online. Not sure there is a debate to be had about those known to the authorities unless you want to completely undermine our human rights.
I think there is definitely a debate to be had about the spread of misinformation and people like yourself quoting/spreading unfounded information e.g. “ related to Islamist terrorist apparently”, “ but the killer is apparently a Muslim” and “Was the killer on the radar. Was he a terrorist? People want to know I guess“
Without people like yourself there probably wouldn’t have been the added harm of the last couple of nights. |
But after the random murders of innocent children, people are naturally going to ask why. Do you not wonder why he did it? Let's not pretend that the questions I posed weren't on other people's mind too, because they were. It didnt need me to raise them for idiots to decide that the answer was to riot. They had the same questions and thoughts anyway (or were using it an opportunity to riot). But there is a genuine concern about the rising levels of knife crime and disorder at the moment. And if children dancing innocently in the street can be killed in broad daylight, it is obviously going to raise questions. The terrorist thing is always a question, as the Manchester arena and various other incidents, that involved multiple murders were terror related. So ofcourse it comes to mind. [Post edited 1 Aug 15:22]
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:55 - Aug 1 with 1274 views | saintsfanbrock |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:20 - Aug 1 by Southamptonfan |
But after the random murders of innocent children, people are naturally going to ask why. Do you not wonder why he did it? Let's not pretend that the questions I posed weren't on other people's mind too, because they were. It didnt need me to raise them for idiots to decide that the answer was to riot. They had the same questions and thoughts anyway (or were using it an opportunity to riot). But there is a genuine concern about the rising levels of knife crime and disorder at the moment. And if children dancing innocently in the street can be killed in broad daylight, it is obviously going to raise questions. The terrorist thing is always a question, as the Manchester arena and various other incidents, that involved multiple murders were terror related. So ofcourse it comes to mind. [Post edited 1 Aug 15:22]
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7 people have been killed in terror related attacks in the last five years in the U.K. these are of course awful and regrettable deaths.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/30/killings-adequacy-of-mental-heal
35 homicides a year are by people with schizophrenia, that’s 5 times as many in a 5th of the time period. Of course though people like yourself jump straight to Islam and terrorism.
If it does perhaps as you say come to your mind, perhaps you should ask yourself if that is due to xenophobia/islamaphobia or is it based on facts? | | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 16:05 - Aug 1 with 1263 views | yateleysaint |
And some people are mentally ill and far right, like that weird, little dweeb who murdered Jo Cox.
I don’t remember the EDL making such a fuss about that murder.
I wonder why… [Post edited 1 Aug 16:07]
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| You cannot reason a person out of something they were not reasoned into. |
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 16:09 - Aug 1 with 1259 views | Bazza |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 07:01 - Aug 1 by saint22 |
Ok pal you just keep on that path of ignorance |
Is 22 your age or your IQ | | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 16:29 - Aug 1 with 1243 views | Southamptonfan |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:55 - Aug 1 by saintsfanbrock |
7 people have been killed in terror related attacks in the last five years in the U.K. these are of course awful and regrettable deaths.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/30/killings-adequacy-of-mental-heal
35 homicides a year are by people with schizophrenia, that’s 5 times as many in a 5th of the time period. Of course though people like yourself jump straight to Islam and terrorism.
If it does perhaps as you say come to your mind, perhaps you should ask yourself if that is due to xenophobia/islamaphobia or is it based on facts? |
I will tell you why terrorism comes to mind. And that's because they didn't say it was because of anything else. If it was someone with schizophrenia, then tell the public, to prevent attacks on mosques and innocent people. I think you are getting me wrong. If it's not announced that it was mental health, than what else could it be apart from terrorism? The point is, I am thinking it, but I won't go and riot, I am.just asking the question. Others though, will think it and also harm others. My point is that if it isn't terrorism, (its reasonable to think it's a possibility imo), than announce what it is, to prevent all the chaos that has happened afterwards. If its a mental health patient who.should have been being looked after, I think it's within the public interest and safety to.know about it. But they are keeping quiet, it makes me wonder why. If you don't wonder why that's fine, I do. And yes I wonder if it's terror related as a possibility as it's happened before. [Post edited 1 Aug 16:32]
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 16:44 - Aug 1 with 1211 views | saintmark1976 |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:20 - Aug 1 by Southamptonfan |
But after the random murders of innocent children, people are naturally going to ask why. Do you not wonder why he did it? Let's not pretend that the questions I posed weren't on other people's mind too, because they were. It didnt need me to raise them for idiots to decide that the answer was to riot. They had the same questions and thoughts anyway (or were using it an opportunity to riot). But there is a genuine concern about the rising levels of knife crime and disorder at the moment. And if children dancing innocently in the street can be killed in broad daylight, it is obviously going to raise questions. The terrorist thing is always a question, as the Manchester arena and various other incidents, that involved multiple murders were terror related. So ofcourse it comes to mind. [Post edited 1 Aug 15:22]
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Southamptonfan, you say “ Do you not wonder why he did it”.
Firstly, you would be well advised to take a step back here and calm down a little.
The person named is currently charged with various offences and at this moment in time is not guilty of anything whatsoever. However unpalatable it may currently appear to us all, our legal system is in place for a purpose and everyone however objectionable they may initially appear is entitled to its protection until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. In a nutshell it’s a system that protects us all from the effects of unsubstantiated mob rule.
Secondly, despite the media attention surrounding this occurrence it is useful to retain a sense of proportion. Our citizens either young or old, are not suddenly at immediate danger of being randomly attacked and killed, and the UK is still remains a safe place to reside.
Heinous events of the type currently under discussion are not everyday occurrences. My memory is perhaps not as good as it used to be but does go back to a not dissimilar case of random killings the Hungerford Massacre, when a white Anglo Saxon man ( Michael Ryan ? ) shot dead multiple ( 13 ? ) members the public.That wasn’t recently but as far back as 1987, i e 37 years ago
Very unfortunately as in this case bad things happen to good people. Fortunately however still not on a regular basis. | |
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 16:47 - Aug 1 with 1213 views | saintsfanbrock |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 16:29 - Aug 1 by Southamptonfan |
I will tell you why terrorism comes to mind. And that's because they didn't say it was because of anything else. If it was someone with schizophrenia, then tell the public, to prevent attacks on mosques and innocent people. I think you are getting me wrong. If it's not announced that it was mental health, than what else could it be apart from terrorism? The point is, I am thinking it, but I won't go and riot, I am.just asking the question. Others though, will think it and also harm others. My point is that if it isn't terrorism, (its reasonable to think it's a possibility imo), than announce what it is, to prevent all the chaos that has happened afterwards. If its a mental health patient who.should have been being looked after, I think it's within the public interest and safety to.know about it. But they are keeping quiet, it makes me wonder why. If you don't wonder why that's fine, I do. And yes I wonder if it's terror related as a possibility as it's happened before. [Post edited 1 Aug 16:32]
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You post was the day after it happened, you expect the police to ascertain motive and mental health state in 24hours and then be sure enough to release it to the public in that time?
Firstly of course the above is nonsense, it will be months/potentially never like with a lot of murderers that the motive is determined.
Secondly you sound exactly like a lot of the far right speakers, “I am thinking but I won’t go and riot”. We as a society have to play to the lowest common denominator, when you spread ideas about hate towards a single group there will be those that take those ideas and run with them.
Thirdly it disgusts me that you think the authorities owe a duty to tell the public to prevent attacks on mosques and innocent people, people within the public owe a duty to their fellow people to not attack others. If this had been a terrorist then it would not justify any action against other innocent people. I’m sure you will shoot back with oh but that’s not what you mean, that you completely agree but there’s enough gaps in what you say for people reading this exchange to see how you truly feel. [Post edited 1 Aug 16:51]
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 17:29 - Aug 1 with 1172 views | 1885_SFC |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 15:55 - Aug 1 by saintsfanbrock |
7 people have been killed in terror related attacks in the last five years in the U.K. these are of course awful and regrettable deaths.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/30/killings-adequacy-of-mental-heal
35 homicides a year are by people with schizophrenia, that’s 5 times as many in a 5th of the time period. Of course though people like yourself jump straight to Islam and terrorism.
If it does perhaps as you say come to your mind, perhaps you should ask yourself if that is due to xenophobia/islamaphobia or is it based on facts? |
Why have you chosen 'just' the last five years? Is it to fit your agenda? |  |
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 17:49 - Aug 1 with 1162 views | saintsfanbrock |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 17:29 - Aug 1 by 1885_SFC |
Why have you chosen 'just' the last five years? Is it to fit your agenda? |
I presumed that five years would be satisfactory given that is recent memory for what is actually an issue in terms of crime.
Able to also say ten years is 59 (average of 6 a year), twenty years is 129 with an average of rounded down to 6 again a year.
To put those figures in context:
1 as also pointed out be a separate poster not all of those figures are Islamic terror related events:
2 82 people were killed by dogs in the same time period: and
3 if you take two very large events out of the above then over the last 20 years it has only 30 deaths so very isolated [Post edited 1 Aug 18:05]
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| Serious Disorder in Southport on 19:38 - Aug 1 with 1061 views | SaintEPW |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 16:13 - Jul 31 by UTS1885 |
Let’s be clear last night was a very minor affair on mostly one street, the last real riot in this country was in 2011, when the police shot dead the gangster in north London. There was major looting, shops burnt down and it spread across the country.
I firmly believe the situation in this country will get a lot worse because of the uncontrolled immigration in this country over the last 15 years at least. We now also have thousands of illegal immigrants housed costing tax payers millions per day or roaming the streets. In Southampton there has been a number of crimes committed by them from burglary to knife muggings. Those in government have failed to address all of this and allowed it to happen. |
Factually 15 to 20 years ago :
Net Migration Rates as follows:
2019 = 206,000 - Post Brexit 2020 = 313,000.
Then in earlier Times : 2004 = 268,000 : 2007 = 273,000 : 2011 = 283,000 : 2012 = 161,000 : 2015 = 331,000.
Population of UK is 67,980,730. The highest total of 2015 equates to 0.48 % of the population.
Hardly being swamped are we - contrary to deliberately inflammatory comments by Farage- Reform - EDL - Thugs in Stockport.
Total immigrant population in UK from 1991 to 2000 was 11% .
We have recently increased to 13% during the last 14 years of right wing Tory Governments.
They constantly used anti - foreigner rants around immigration to drive Brexit and constantly worked to demonise immigrants. That worked out well | | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 20:48 - Aug 1 with 995 views | saint22 |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 16:05 - Aug 1 by yateleysaint |
And some people are mentally ill and far right, like that weird, little dweeb who murdered Jo Cox.
I don’t remember the EDL making such a fuss about that murder.
I wonder why… [Post edited 1 Aug 16:07]
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Exactly
Point well made
Racist bigots like Farage masquerading as patriots | | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 22:01 - Aug 1 with 961 views | Bazza |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 20:48 - Aug 1 by saint22 |
Exactly
Point well made
Racist bigots like Farage masquerading as patriots |
22 isn’t it past your bedtime?
More importantly repeating the same erroneous comment is surely a sign of impending mental problems.
Just once try listening to Farage. | | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 22:12 - Aug 1 with 940 views | WestEndBoy |
Let 3rd world in get a 3rd world country |  | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 22:25 - Aug 1 with 917 views | Bazza |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 19:38 - Aug 1 by SaintEPW |
Factually 15 to 20 years ago :
Net Migration Rates as follows:
2019 = 206,000 - Post Brexit 2020 = 313,000.
Then in earlier Times : 2004 = 268,000 : 2007 = 273,000 : 2011 = 283,000 : 2012 = 161,000 : 2015 = 331,000.
Population of UK is 67,980,730. The highest total of 2015 equates to 0.48 % of the population.
Hardly being swamped are we - contrary to deliberately inflammatory comments by Farage- Reform - EDL - Thugs in Stockport.
Total immigrant population in UK from 1991 to 2000 was 11% .
We have recently increased to 13% during the last 14 years of right wing Tory Governments.
They constantly used anti - foreigner rants around immigration to drive Brexit and constantly worked to demonise immigrants. That worked out well |
Good information but it omits the latest year’s increased numbers. | | | |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 23:24 - Aug 1 with 882 views | saintsfanbrock |
| Serious Disorder in Southport on 22:12 - Aug 1 by WestEndBoy |
Let 3rd world in get a 3rd world country |
Congratulations, you just won most xenophobic comment on this post.
Your prize is that we can ship you out so that there is some more room for hard working people who want to come to this country to give themselves and their family better opportunities | | | |
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