| Trust meetings 12:47 - Apr 3 with 31000 views | D_Alien |
The newsletter has dropped, and the plan is for three open meetings in late April / early May, but no date(s) fixed yet |  |
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| Trust meetings on 10:59 - Apr 4 with 3670 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 10:33 - Apr 4 by electricblue |
The owner of Scunny is doing what is right for the club to be able to keep it viable, so if he as to close down the academy as they not sold any players on that made the club money.
Then they are moving the training to elsewhere and club staff will be made redundant.
Imo you cannot blame him for doing so.....
Slightly different to Dale as they bring players through into the first most of them and sell them on, the odd one here n tbere as been sold without a first team game..
Tbe academy is vital to Dale but if that does close down then the knock on effect will be tremendous.
Dales youth reputation of coaching will cease..
Coaches leave.
No up n coming players to make ££££££s on.
Then if Dale get back i to the EFL and want to reopen the academy then it is findi g new coaches and youngsters all ovef again..... |
Notts County and Chesterfield are two of numerous other clubs who had to close their academies down or downscale, there is no funding outside the EFL.Of course you can struggle on and try to keep it going but that would mean diverting money that needs to be used to fund the first team. If your first team is being weakened then everything else at the club falls down. The over riding feedback when you look at clubs outside the EFL is that every penny saved is done so in order to make sure they have a competitive team. The National League in particular is no place for blooding a load of youngsters, it's a very tough physical league and you have to win that battle before you can start playing your football. That's also the feedback from my neighbours who are both season ticket holders at Oldham...land of the giants they call it.
Most clubs seem to have summer trials and then cherry pick maybe half a dozen youngsters and look to send them out on loan further down the pyramid, in the hope that one or more will progress further down the line. I think that's going to be Scunthorpes model also. So if we are looking to try to be very competitive in the Natiinal League I don't see how we can fund an academy at the same time. I think that could have been used as a great negotiating point if we had have gone down the fan owned route and engaged with the council/ local community/ youth agencies etc but that's not to be now. [Post edited 4 Apr 2023 11:09]
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| Trust meetings on 11:06 - Apr 4 with 3623 views | standale |
| Trust meetings on 10:59 - Apr 4 by TalkingSutty |
Notts County and Chesterfield are two of numerous other clubs who had to close their academies down or downscale, there is no funding outside the EFL.Of course you can struggle on and try to keep it going but that would mean diverting money that needs to be used to fund the first team. If your first team is being weakened then everything else at the club falls down. The over riding feedback when you look at clubs outside the EFL is that every penny saved is done so in order to make sure they have a competitive team. The National League in particular is no place for blooding a load of youngsters, it's a very tough physical league and you have to win that battle before you can start playing your football. That's also the feedback from my neighbours who are both season ticket holders at Oldham...land of the giants they call it.
Most clubs seem to have summer trials and then cherry pick maybe half a dozen youngsters and look to send them out on loan further down the pyramid, in the hope that one or more will progress further down the line. I think that's going to be Scunthorpes model also. So if we are looking to try to be very competitive in the Natiinal League I don't see how we can fund an academy at the same time. I think that could have been used as a great negotiating point if we had have gone down the fan owned route and engaged with the council/ local community/ youth agencies etc but that's not to be now. [Post edited 4 Apr 2023 11:09]
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seem to be a few vacancies in the academy |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 11:12 - Apr 4 with 3589 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 11:06 - Apr 4 by standale |
seem to be a few vacancies in the academy |
Interesting that. Maybe the priority isn't the first team and it's standing in the pyramid, more a community asset for the Town. If larger clubs than ours can't fund an academy it makes you wonder how we can on gates that will probably struggle to reach 2000. Who knows what's going on, we're kept in the dark.😄 It doesn't appear as though the wolf is knocking at the door any time soon so that's a good thing. [Post edited 4 Apr 2023 11:26]
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| Trust meetings on 11:27 - Apr 4 with 3553 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meetings on 11:06 - Apr 4 by standale |
seem to be a few vacancies in the academy |
If that number of vacancies have arisen - why?
Have people left, in the expectation their jobs would be under threat anyway?
Perhaps someone with links to our Academy can shed some light...
Edit: and how on earth are we expected to attract good quality candidates for these positions, in our situation, with the obvious threat of Academy closure?
This just doesn't make any sense whatsoever
[Post edited 4 Apr 2023 11:36]
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| Trust meetings on 11:50 - Apr 4 with 3476 views | dawlishdale |
| Trust meetings on 11:27 - Apr 4 by D_Alien |
If that number of vacancies have arisen - why?
Have people left, in the expectation their jobs would be under threat anyway?
Perhaps someone with links to our Academy can shed some light...
Edit: and how on earth are we expected to attract good quality candidates for these positions, in our situation, with the obvious threat of Academy closure?
This just doesn't make any sense whatsoever
[Post edited 4 Apr 2023 11:36]
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Like so much else at the club this past year. Hardly any of the decisions taken make any business sense at all. |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 12:11 - Apr 4 with 3433 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meetings on 11:50 - Apr 4 by dawlishdale |
Like so much else at the club this past year. Hardly any of the decisions taken make any business sense at all. |
Which is why the original impetus for a meeting with the Trust (initially - and i still think that's the right way forward) occurred
I really do fear this has developed into a "kick into the long grass" approach
We - the fanbase - with no connection to the club apart from some shares and lifelong support... we need answers, both from the club AND from the Trust
Not talking shops
[Post edited 4 Apr 2023 12:24]
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| Trust meetings on 12:52 - Apr 4 with 3314 views | D_Alien |
Unless... it's a strategy to initiate closure of the Academy
"We can no longer attract good quality people for these positions, which are necessary to continue the Academy in its current form"
A bit like the issuance of shares which the BoD knew wouldn't be able to be taken up by the fanbase
I'd be happy to see that notion refuted
[Post edited 4 Apr 2023 13:06]
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| Trust meetings on 13:49 - Apr 4 with 3141 views | James1980 |
Simon's has commented in interviews the aim is ensuring we have a club to support in ten years time. Which ultimately is what we all want. What steps are being put in place to ensure that happens and why are those decisions being made. | |
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| Trust meetings on 19:43 - Apr 4 with 2899 views | 49thseason |
The Academy jobs are 1x full time at £28k and 3 x part -time one of the part-time posts is £20 and hour so collectively not such a big deal in the scheme of things.
I did wonder if the Academy was a major selling point for these multi-club organisations bearing in mind how productive it is compared to many others. Better not to start dismantling things just yet until it is established if there is an investor inbound or not. I fear that if we end up paddling our own canoe, thats when things will get messy. |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 00:34 - Apr 5 with 2740 views | Shun |
| Trust meetings on 10:59 - Apr 4 by TalkingSutty |
Notts County and Chesterfield are two of numerous other clubs who had to close their academies down or downscale, there is no funding outside the EFL.Of course you can struggle on and try to keep it going but that would mean diverting money that needs to be used to fund the first team. If your first team is being weakened then everything else at the club falls down. The over riding feedback when you look at clubs outside the EFL is that every penny saved is done so in order to make sure they have a competitive team. The National League in particular is no place for blooding a load of youngsters, it's a very tough physical league and you have to win that battle before you can start playing your football. That's also the feedback from my neighbours who are both season ticket holders at Oldham...land of the giants they call it.
Most clubs seem to have summer trials and then cherry pick maybe half a dozen youngsters and look to send them out on loan further down the pyramid, in the hope that one or more will progress further down the line. I think that's going to be Scunthorpes model also. So if we are looking to try to be very competitive in the Natiinal League I don't see how we can fund an academy at the same time. I think that could have been used as a great negotiating point if we had have gone down the fan owned route and engaged with the council/ local community/ youth agencies etc but that's not to be now. [Post edited 4 Apr 2023 11:09]
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It’s a really interesting debate about whether we can afford to keep the Academy. My concern would be, though, can we afford not to? Looking at the players who’ve come through it only to be sold on, I’d suggest we’ve made far more money in the past decade selling academy products than non-academy players.
If we no longer have that stream of potential coming through then I struggle to see where our big sales will come from.
Edit: To add, regarding electricblue’s notion that we could reopen the Academy’s doors again when we finally return to the Football League, it won’t be that simple. I’m sure the reason we have such talent emerging in a fairly steady stream is that the most talented local youngsters are attracted to us because of our reputation. If we go without an academy for 10, 15 years (however long it takes for us to return) then we lose that reputation and suddenly we’re not an attractive proposition for youngsters. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 0:38]
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| Trust meetings on 06:28 - Apr 5 with 2658 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 00:34 - Apr 5 by Shun |
It’s a really interesting debate about whether we can afford to keep the Academy. My concern would be, though, can we afford not to? Looking at the players who’ve come through it only to be sold on, I’d suggest we’ve made far more money in the past decade selling academy products than non-academy players.
If we no longer have that stream of potential coming through then I struggle to see where our big sales will come from.
Edit: To add, regarding electricblue’s notion that we could reopen the Academy’s doors again when we finally return to the Football League, it won’t be that simple. I’m sure the reason we have such talent emerging in a fairly steady stream is that the most talented local youngsters are attracted to us because of our reputation. If we go without an academy for 10, 15 years (however long it takes for us to return) then we lose that reputation and suddenly we’re not an attractive proposition for youngsters. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 0:38]
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In the past we've made a fortune out of signing broken toys or players who are looking to move up the pyramid and then selling them on. Lambert, Murray, Holt, Alfie, Mendez Laing, Dawson, Hogan, Beesley and many others. We have two players now in Lloyd and Malarkey who we recently signed, Lloyd might not make us any money but he's a typical broken toy. Mularkey is class and the finished product. Using that model you also get the benefit of the finished article being able to fully contribute on the pitch and you aren't waiting years for their development. I was reading somewhere that the days of lower league clubs unearthing these gems from their academies and getting full value for them is becoming tougher and tougher. I'm not sure why though to be honest, something about clubs from higher up the chain can sign them for nominal fees now.
I've no doubt we could afford to keep the academy but it would stop that money being used for recruitment to strengthen the first team. I think the club need about £500k/ year to run the academy and much if that was funded as a EFL club. With very little money coming into the club I would prefer all the finances were channelled into the first team, that's the model that others in the non league use. Adopting a non league mentality and cutting our cloth accordingly is going to be key next season, if we don't we will continue to slide. If we can't afford to put out a strong first team and run the academy then obviously the academy needs closing down because the first team will always be the priority. Maybe the Council or a sporting charity will make up the shortfall to fund the academy, they might see it as being beneficial to the Town. One things for sure though, if the first team isn't properly prioritised next season then this constant cycle of failure will just continue until we have no fans and probably no club, never mind an academy. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 7:36]
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| Trust meetings on 07:49 - Apr 5 with 2605 views | James1980 |
Carlisle flogging tickets at £10 for their Good Friday game. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 8:07]
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| Trust meetings on 08:43 - Apr 5 with 2530 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 07:49 - Apr 5 by James1980 |
Carlisle flogging tickets at £10 for their Good Friday game. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 8:07]
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Our club is drowning and there have been no appeals to the local public or initiatives put forward to try to help to save us. It's the same mentality that persisted with Bentley until relegation was more or less achieved. If you didn't look at the league table you would think that a mid table finish was guaranteed and the club is winding down for the summer holidays. Maybe those in the Boardroom have decided that not being able to balance the books means forfeiting our place in the EFL is for the best. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 8:49]
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| Trust meetings on 10:04 - Apr 5 with 2417 views | James1980 |
| Trust meetings on 08:43 - Apr 5 by TalkingSutty |
Our club is drowning and there have been no appeals to the local public or initiatives put forward to try to help to save us. It's the same mentality that persisted with Bentley until relegation was more or less achieved. If you didn't look at the league table you would think that a mid table finish was guaranteed and the club is winding down for the summer holidays. Maybe those in the Boardroom have decided that not being able to balance the books means forfeiting our place in the EFL is for the best. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 8:49]
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Is it that demand for tickets is inelastic for Dale home games So dropping the price won't see a sufficient increase in footfall to warrant the decrease? | |
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| Trust meetings on 10:52 - Apr 5 with 2345 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 10:04 - Apr 5 by James1980 |
Is it that demand for tickets is inelastic for Dale home games So dropping the price won't see a sufficient increase in footfall to warrant the decrease? |
We will probably have 7000 spare seats/ standing against Walsall. Advertising free admission on the day would have been a great initiative at Easter. The revenue in the bars/ catering/ club shop would have generated plenty of income. There would have been loads of spin offs from doing that, things that could have been used to boost season ticket sales. The players might have appreciated running out to a few thousand more supporters also. Doing nothing is obviously a option. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 10:54]
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| Trust meetings on 11:21 - Apr 5 with 2270 views | dawlishdale |
| Trust meetings on 10:52 - Apr 5 by TalkingSutty |
We will probably have 7000 spare seats/ standing against Walsall. Advertising free admission on the day would have been a great initiative at Easter. The revenue in the bars/ catering/ club shop would have generated plenty of income. There would have been loads of spin offs from doing that, things that could have been used to boost season ticket sales. The players might have appreciated running out to a few thousand more supporters also. Doing nothing is obviously a option. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 10:54]
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Doing nothing is almost criminal. The new board have loads of business acumen, marketing experience and a supporters representative amongst their midst.
Even if we tried an initiative and only an extra 100 people turned up, its something. And something is surely better than nothing. | | | |
| Trust meetings on 12:05 - Apr 5 with 2188 views | James1980 |
If we give away free tickets what about season ticket holders or those who have already paid will be the response by some. | |
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| Trust meetings on 12:13 - Apr 5 with 2163 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| Trust meetings on 12:05 - Apr 5 by James1980 |
If we give away free tickets what about season ticket holders or those who have already paid will be the response by some. |
As a season ticket holder myself I would be wholeheartedly in favour. Given our current position why not give the fans a freebie or substantial discount, sitting on our hands bemoaning our lot will get us nowhere!!
As a one off gesture it’d create good publicity & might inspire the players. |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 12:31 - Apr 5 with 2116 views | James1980 |
| Trust meetings on 12:13 - Apr 5 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
As a season ticket holder myself I would be wholeheartedly in favour. Given our current position why not give the fans a freebie or substantial discount, sitting on our hands bemoaning our lot will get us nowhere!!
As a one off gesture it’d create good publicity & might inspire the players. |
I concur. | |
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| Trust meetings on 12:31 - Apr 5 with 2111 views | electricblue |
What the current board have had to do since they took up those positions is remarkable..
But as anybody thought that it is now beyond their capabilities and they are only waiting for a return their out lay..... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Trust meetings on 12:50 - Apr 5 with 2067 views | James1980 |
| Trust meetings on 12:31 - Apr 5 by electricblue |
What the current board have had to do since they took up those positions is remarkable..
But as anybody thought that it is now beyond their capabilities and they are only waiting for a return their out lay..... |
There are much more lucrative and less stressful ways to make a return. | |
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| Trust meetings on 13:12 - Apr 5 with 2020 views | ChaffRAFC |
| Trust meetings on 00:34 - Apr 5 by Shun |
It’s a really interesting debate about whether we can afford to keep the Academy. My concern would be, though, can we afford not to? Looking at the players who’ve come through it only to be sold on, I’d suggest we’ve made far more money in the past decade selling academy products than non-academy players.
If we no longer have that stream of potential coming through then I struggle to see where our big sales will come from.
Edit: To add, regarding electricblue’s notion that we could reopen the Academy’s doors again when we finally return to the Football League, it won’t be that simple. I’m sure the reason we have such talent emerging in a fairly steady stream is that the most talented local youngsters are attracted to us because of our reputation. If we go without an academy for 10, 15 years (however long it takes for us to return) then we lose that reputation and suddenly we’re not an attractive proposition for youngsters. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 0:38]
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Problem is, when you lose your EFL status, the pathway for youngsters to progress becomes more difficult. The better players who may have once come to Dale aren't going to come to an academy that's in non-league without exposure to competitions like the Papa John's Trophy and games against other league academies. The costs involved in running the academy will be substantial and the change of players coming through becomes less likely I suspect.
I suspect the academy will have maybe 12 months before it becomes unsustainable without major investment. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Trust meetings on 13:14 - Apr 5 with 2010 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 12:31 - Apr 5 by electricblue |
What the current board have had to do since they took up those positions is remarkable..
But as anybody thought that it is now beyond their capabilities and they are only waiting for a return their out lay..... |
Well the currant board can do what they want without being challenged and without even bothering to consult with the supporters trust and more importantly the shareholders and supporters. As a collective we've spent two years trying to stop a hostile takeover, well before those in the Boardroom became involved, ridding the club of people who were in it for themselves. People who didn't bother to communicate with the fans and just pay them lip service...sounds familiar?
The plan was then to make it a fan owned and fan run club, people bought shares on that basis and contributed financially in other ways. No sooner had they bought those shares, a handful of people in the boardroom suddenly decided to change the whole concept and basically announced that the club was in fact up for sale...at that moment the Trust should have intervened and called a EGM, seeing as though those in the Boardroom had decided not to do. It's not good enough to just say that the Trust Committee agree with the decision, they act on behalf of a thousand members who should have been properly balloted when the news broke and there should have also been consultation with ALL of the shareholders. Very soon we could have persons unknown running the football club and they can invite anybody they want to join them. That's the exact scenario that we've been fighting to avoid for so long...why are we sitting back and allowing that to happen?
Basically, we now have a board of Directors who have taken it upon themselves to do exactly what they want with the club and we have a Trust and fan base who will sit back and let them do it. It makes you wonder what the original fight was for in the first place. Anyway, they all know best so let them get on with it. So much for the inclusivity. I accept we have some fans who are happy with the outside investors route and probably aren't bothered that there has been no consultation but i know plenty who aren't. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 13:30]
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| Trust meetings on 14:03 - Apr 5 with 1933 views | chuckleberry |
They’ve offered free tickets to local looked after children. |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 14:42 - Apr 5 with 1834 views | dawlishdale |
| Trust meetings on 14:03 - Apr 5 by chuckleberry |
They’ve offered free tickets to local looked after children. |
The Community Trust has; rather than the Football Club per se. The Community Trust gets 300 tickets every home match as part of its work in the local area. Whilst this week's tickets are going to a very worthy cause, it's not in addition to their normal workload.
Do you think the club is doing enough to attract additional support in this crucial time? | | | |
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