| Andre Gray 17:30 - Oct 2 with 22203 views | Petros |
Nah. |  | | |  |
| Andre Gray on 16:13 - Oct 4 with 3696 views | sparkey |
I can't believe this thread.
Lose a game - blame a player
Win a game - scapegoat a player (instead of be happy about the result????)
I thought the fickle fans supported Man U, Arsenal etc.. looks like we have our fair bunch too | | | |
| Andre Gray on 16:17 - Oct 4 with 3680 views | PinnerPaul |
| Andre Gray on 12:12 - Oct 3 by lightwaterhoop |
Were letting in too many goals i worry that at the end of the season that may keep us out of the play-offs.Lets hope MW can get our defence organised soon. I want to watch 3-0 wins at home.MW must realise we have a problem. [Post edited 3 Oct 2021 12:24]
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I expect he wants to watch 3-0 wins at home as well.
No plan is ever going to deliver that on a constant basis is it? | | | |
| Andre Gray on 16:19 - Oct 4 with 3672 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Andre Gray on 16:10 - Oct 4 by PinnerPaul |
We've been through this before with Charlie.
EVERY stat is available to MW and staff.
If he WAS "overweight and unfit" he wouldn't be playing! |
Slightly disagree on this one,
We are short up front numbers wise, and if Dykes is injured or over-played on international duty, either Austin or Gray have to start. Warburton has no other options having loaned Bonne to Ipswich, unless plays Adomah down the middle, which is unlikely.
Neither Austin or Gray look fit enough to start and play a full 90 minutes championship football imo. Charlie was blowing hard after 25 minutes on Saturday and Gray was exhausted at WBA on the hour.
Hopefully next few weeks break will help, but unlike Willock last year, those two don't have age on their side in trying to get up to championship fitness levels in a short space of time. | | | |
| Andre Gray on 16:22 - Oct 4 with 3658 views | sevenhoop |
| Andre Gray on 16:19 - Oct 4 by ParkRoyalR |
Slightly disagree on this one,
We are short up front numbers wise, and if Dykes is injured or over-played on international duty, either Austin or Gray have to start. Warburton has no other options having loaned Bonne to Ipswich, unless plays Adomah down the middle, which is unlikely.
Neither Austin or Gray look fit enough to start and play a full 90 minutes championship football imo. Charlie was blowing hard after 25 minutes on Saturday and Gray was exhausted at WBA on the hour.
Hopefully next few weeks break will help, but unlike Willock last year, those two don't have age on their side in trying to get up to championship fitness levels in a short space of time. |
that about Charlie is wrong, clearly, given his cup performance. That man was a talisman in turning us around next week and should be given every chance to be that again - he's been really unlucky that goals have not been going in in the league: one at Reading looked a cert, last Tuesday and the one that led to the 3rd on Saturday. And how brilliant is his overall game now and game management? love him, he is a very precious R. |  | | |
| Andre Gray on 16:36 - Oct 4 with 3632 views | Myke |
| Andre Gray on 16:13 - Oct 4 by sparkey |
I can't believe this thread.
Lose a game - blame a player
Win a game - scapegoat a player (instead of be happy about the result????)
I thought the fickle fans supported Man U, Arsenal etc.. looks like we have our fair bunch too |
I'm not sure a discussion on how much Gray contributes to the team can be called scapegoating (if you want a textbook example of scapegoating, go to the Kane or Lumley threads) It is very early days to judge Gray, but I am prepared to concede he has underwhelmed me so far. The reality of course, (apart from the fact that he is only here 5 minutes) is that we don't play to his strengths. We are far more likely to go across the pitch than 'over the top' or down the channels where he wants the ball. When we did this effectively against WBA he scored. But most of the time he strays offside because he has gone, but the ball hasn't.
Now the problem with this is that Bonne used to do the same thing, and he too was caught offside regularly. Gray is a little bit cuter or more savvy than Bonne (so he should be with his age and experience) so he gets himself back onside or doesn't interfere with play if he is off, so he doesn't get flagged as often as Bonne, but he is still offside several times per game.
I don't know what we are paying Gray in wages, but I'm guessing he is on more than Bonne. So my question; should we not have persisted with Bonne as he already had a year's experience playing to our style, rather than bringing in Gray at the very last minute, and trying to get him to learn how we play 'on the job'?
Because at the moment, Gray is not offering us anything more than Bonne was last season. Hopefully this international break will help both his overall fitness and his understanding of when to go and when to stay. | | | |
| Andre Gray on 16:41 - Oct 4 with 3620 views | Mick_S |
Far too early to say for sure, but boy oh boy, did I enjoy Reading. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Andre Gray on 16:49 - Oct 4 with 3597 views | danehoop |
This thread is insane. Gray has only been with us a short time, give it rest. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Andre Gray on 16:52 - Oct 4 with 3598 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Andre Gray on 16:22 - Oct 4 by sevenhoop |
that about Charlie is wrong, clearly, given his cup performance. That man was a talisman in turning us around next week and should be given every chance to be that again - he's been really unlucky that goals have not been going in in the league: one at Reading looked a cert, last Tuesday and the one that led to the 3rd on Saturday. And how brilliant is his overall game now and game management? love him, he is a very precious R. |
Accept Charlie is a huge favourite for rightful reasons amongst our fanbase,
and 2nd goal against Everton was down to his excellent early movement,
but sometimes scoring a good goal (as against Everton) can overcome other shortcomings,
puts himself in great positions for 3 goal-scoring chances in last 2 games, which is a big plus,
but imo, at 32, is not able to play as a lone striker (MW's usual preferred formation) and
is most effective in last 35 minutes when gaps open, as this is when he finds space and goals | | | |
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| Andre Gray on 00:06 - Oct 5 with 3423 views | simmo |
My word... Not long ago we were playing Washington up top and hoping to make something of Seb Polter, now we're moaning that the 3rd striker we have is offside a lot and his alternative skillset isn't quite enough to overcome the 2 goals in a handful of games in a brand new team. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Andre Gray on 00:12 - Oct 5 with 3407 views | daveB |
| Andre Gray on 16:19 - Oct 4 by ParkRoyalR |
Slightly disagree on this one,
We are short up front numbers wise, and if Dykes is injured or over-played on international duty, either Austin or Gray have to start. Warburton has no other options having loaned Bonne to Ipswich, unless plays Adomah down the middle, which is unlikely.
Neither Austin or Gray look fit enough to start and play a full 90 minutes championship football imo. Charlie was blowing hard after 25 minutes on Saturday and Gray was exhausted at WBA on the hour.
Hopefully next few weeks break will help, but unlike Willock last year, those two don't have age on their side in trying to get up to championship fitness levels in a short space of time. |
Austin played a full 90 against Everton 2 weeks ago scoring twice. Warburton is managing their game time to ensure they are fit all season, they could both easily play 90 minutes if needed but to get the best out of them across the season this seems a more sensible approach |  | | |
| Andre Gray on 00:16 - Oct 5 with 3409 views | saxbend |
| Andre Gray on 16:54 - Oct 3 by traininvain |
Tough crowd to please if yesterday wasn’t considered entertaining! |
Yes I was just left in a foul mood by Maguire and the officials. The team worked their arses off and got the win, but it simply wasn't a pleasant game to watch. It actually made me angry. The result at the end cancelled the anger out, but looking back over the 90 minutes I got very little enjoyment out of it. Between the most incompetent officiating we'll likely see all season, and the absolute pinnacle of unsporting behaviour all from one theatrical rodent it was like listening to an hour of your mum jokes from a comedian who then gets a bucket of water chucked over him. The bucket may be satisfying but it doesn't turn the previous hour into entertainment. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 0:17]
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| Andre Gray on 00:18 - Oct 5 with 3402 views | LythamR |
| Andre Gray on 16:36 - Oct 4 by Myke |
I'm not sure a discussion on how much Gray contributes to the team can be called scapegoating (if you want a textbook example of scapegoating, go to the Kane or Lumley threads) It is very early days to judge Gray, but I am prepared to concede he has underwhelmed me so far. The reality of course, (apart from the fact that he is only here 5 minutes) is that we don't play to his strengths. We are far more likely to go across the pitch than 'over the top' or down the channels where he wants the ball. When we did this effectively against WBA he scored. But most of the time he strays offside because he has gone, but the ball hasn't.
Now the problem with this is that Bonne used to do the same thing, and he too was caught offside regularly. Gray is a little bit cuter or more savvy than Bonne (so he should be with his age and experience) so he gets himself back onside or doesn't interfere with play if he is off, so he doesn't get flagged as often as Bonne, but he is still offside several times per game.
I don't know what we are paying Gray in wages, but I'm guessing he is on more than Bonne. So my question; should we not have persisted with Bonne as he already had a year's experience playing to our style, rather than bringing in Gray at the very last minute, and trying to get him to learn how we play 'on the job'?
Because at the moment, Gray is not offering us anything more than Bonne was last season. Hopefully this international break will help both his overall fitness and his understanding of when to go and when to stay. |
"Gray is not offering us anything more than Bonne was last season."
Really? please provide a link to Bonne scoring a goal anything like Grays WBA goal? and ill stop thinking this is nonsense. |  | | |
| Andre Gray on 04:49 - Oct 5 with 3318 views | nix |
| Andre Gray on 00:06 - Oct 5 by simmo |
My word... Not long ago we were playing Washington up top and hoping to make something of Seb Polter, now we're moaning that the 3rd striker we have is offside a lot and his alternative skillset isn't quite enough to overcome the 2 goals in a handful of games in a brand new team. |
This.
Meanwhile out of the games he's played (six but an equivalent of three and a half as he's only played 300 minutes), he's scored two goals; two of the matches, incidentally, have been away against top two favourites.
I'd also argue that we haven't quite been playing to his strengths yet. A few balls over the top like the two goals that Preston scored against us, ironically, are what I imagine would suit his style of play. Or when we stretch the play a bit more, like the Dykes goal against Preston, which he provided the assist for, which wasn't given as an assist (I'm not sure how something qualifies as an assist but without that ball in, Dykes wasn't scoring). I do think we don't stretch the play enough, especially early on. Maybe we're worried about not having enough pace, but now with Amos back, Gray in the team, and Chair having found a yard of pace, we could sometimes move the ball a bit quicker. It certainly seems to work for Coventry, who seem to score a lot of their goals by stretching the opposition defence.
I don't think we can conclude yet that he's the second coming. Nor do I think we can write him off as not good enough, or not our kind of player. He offers something different as a kind of player, with pace and power, who's scored a lot of goals in the past that normally costs big bucks.
I'd like to see him fight for the ball a bit more, trying to win it back if it doesn't immediately come for him first time, but I'm sure they're working on that. He's already become more of a team player I notice, a few times passing to someone in a better position when he could have shot himself, which hasn't always resulted in a goal but might have done. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 6:06]
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| Andre Gray on 09:46 - Oct 5 with 3130 views | francisbowles |
| Andre Gray on 04:49 - Oct 5 by nix |
This.
Meanwhile out of the games he's played (six but an equivalent of three and a half as he's only played 300 minutes), he's scored two goals; two of the matches, incidentally, have been away against top two favourites.
I'd also argue that we haven't quite been playing to his strengths yet. A few balls over the top like the two goals that Preston scored against us, ironically, are what I imagine would suit his style of play. Or when we stretch the play a bit more, like the Dykes goal against Preston, which he provided the assist for, which wasn't given as an assist (I'm not sure how something qualifies as an assist but without that ball in, Dykes wasn't scoring). I do think we don't stretch the play enough, especially early on. Maybe we're worried about not having enough pace, but now with Amos back, Gray in the team, and Chair having found a yard of pace, we could sometimes move the ball a bit quicker. It certainly seems to work for Coventry, who seem to score a lot of their goals by stretching the opposition defence.
I don't think we can conclude yet that he's the second coming. Nor do I think we can write him off as not good enough, or not our kind of player. He offers something different as a kind of player, with pace and power, who's scored a lot of goals in the past that normally costs big bucks.
I'd like to see him fight for the ball a bit more, trying to win it back if it doesn't immediately come for him first time, but I'm sure they're working on that. He's already become more of a team player I notice, a few times passing to someone in a better position when he could have shot himself, which hasn't always resulted in a goal but might have done. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 6:06]
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As usual Nix a comprehensive analysis of the topic being discussed. Players often need time to settle and adapt. See Wallace and Willock and going back a bit Helguson is a great example. Sent out on loan before coming back and really performing for us.
Trust Warburton to get more flexibility to our play, which he has indicated we need with the signing of Gray. Now we have a little time to work on it. We have to mix the styles up a bit and play a bit more to the strengths of whoever is playing | | | |
| Andre Gray on 10:54 - Oct 5 with 3068 views | Myke |
| Andre Gray on 00:18 - Oct 5 by LythamR |
"Gray is not offering us anything more than Bonne was last season."
Really? please provide a link to Bonne scoring a goal anything like Grays WBA goal? and ill stop thinking this is nonsense. |
You are thinking too narrowly. I referenced the WBA goal as his best moment so far and no coincidence that it came when we played an early ball down the channel. Ultimately however, we lost the game. Bonne scored the winner at Derby (turning 1 point into 3) the equaliser at SW (o point into 1) So far Gray has helped rescue a point at Reading. But again, I am looking at it much broader than that. It is early days, so I'm hopeful we will see an improvement | | | |
| Andre Gray on 16:04 - Oct 5 with 2947 views | rsonist |
In addition to what's already been said, the whole reason Gray was signed was to give us a different option not reiterate the ones we already had. So I think it's only natural if it hasn't entirely clicked overnight.
Playing devil's advocate however - if we were that committed to exploiting our new pacemen we might have seen Odubajo instructed differently by this point. |  | | |
| Andre Gray on 17:03 - Oct 5 with 2876 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Andre Gray on 00:06 - Oct 5 by simmo |
My word... Not long ago we were playing Washington up top and hoping to make something of Seb Polter, now we're moaning that the 3rd striker we have is offside a lot and his alternative skillset isn't quite enough to overcome the 2 goals in a handful of games in a brand new team. |
Despite obvious limitations, I have only fond memories of Polter.
I think of him when one of those football blooper clips come on with the dog on the pitch in a obscure Latin American game. Same random unpredictable energy. |  | | |
| Andre Gray on 18:00 - Oct 5 with 2819 views | ozranger |
I'm on the plus side of the coin at this stage. However, I see him only getting better with the international competition he may get over the next two weeks. That, of course, means he will not be playing against Fulham as Andre will be in Honduras on the Thursday. I am a little surprised no one has picked up on this and how it will affect his game, whether positive or negative.
Also to add, someone mentioned why did we not keep Bonne? If we did, what were we going to do in January if Bonne heads off like Ilias and Seny which he will? Zimbabwe also qualified for the ANC. Having three forwards then would be much better than two. |  | | |
| Andre Gray on 18:24 - Oct 5 with 2787 views | simmo |
| Andre Gray on 17:03 - Oct 5 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Despite obvious limitations, I have only fond memories of Polter.
I think of him when one of those football blooper clips come on with the dog on the pitch in a obscure Latin American game. Same random unpredictable energy. |
Please don't get it confused, I really loved Polter and he was brilliant for us at a time when we needed somebody - but it's about context... We borrowed and begged for years trying to get something resembling a Championship level striker, we've now got a younger intl player we're developing that already looks great, brought Austin in to come in and out the team and bring his experience, and now Gray with his different skill set to limit the expectation on Austin and bring something the others don't for the short term.
All of this also allows us to loan both Bonne and Kelman btw, which will give us the chance to do more with them next season and beyond. It's crazy to be in this situation and complain that you're not having a player based on 300 minutes or whatever. Ridiculous in fact. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Andre Gray on 18:53 - Oct 5 with 2755 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Andre Gray on 18:24 - Oct 5 by simmo |
Please don't get it confused, I really loved Polter and he was brilliant for us at a time when we needed somebody - but it's about context... We borrowed and begged for years trying to get something resembling a Championship level striker, we've now got a younger intl player we're developing that already looks great, brought Austin in to come in and out the team and bring his experience, and now Gray with his different skill set to limit the expectation on Austin and bring something the others don't for the short term.
All of this also allows us to loan both Bonne and Kelman btw, which will give us the chance to do more with them next season and beyond. It's crazy to be in this situation and complain that you're not having a player based on 300 minutes or whatever. Ridiculous in fact. |
No of course! The difference is huge! Totally understand what you mean and agree.
As usual I think we’ve fallen into the trap of feeding those who comment in bad faith to be honest, so I thought I’d have a Private Godfrey moment. | | | |
| Andre Gray on 17:57 - Oct 6 with 2568 views | MrSheen |
| Andre Gray on 17:03 - Oct 5 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Despite obvious limitations, I have only fond memories of Polter.
I think of him when one of those football blooper clips come on with the dog on the pitch in a obscure Latin American game. Same random unpredictable energy. |
I thought that when I saw Duke McKenna against Everton, or a balloon with the air rushing out. |  | | |
| Andre Gray on 08:21 - Nov 30 with 2090 views | HollowayHoop |
Honestly, this thread is looking more and more ridiculous every day, and it isn't even 2 months old yet.
Wallace, Dykes, Gray... I can't wait to see who the next absolute golden scapegoat is. | | | |
| Andre Gray on 08:56 - Nov 30 with 1914 views | bosh67 |
The guy knows where the net is! .... Even with his back to goal! |  |
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| Andre Gray on 09:13 - Nov 30 with 1836 views | LongsufferingR |
| Andre Gray on 08:56 - Nov 30 by bosh67 |
The guy knows where the net is! .... Even with his back to goal! |
Yup, even the one that was disallowed was an amazingly powerful strike. We'd be dealing with a dead goalkeeper today if he'd got in the way of that one. |  | | |
| Andre Gray on 10:31 - Nov 30 with 1692 views | gazza1 |
Lets be honest with ourselves ....... he hasn't played too well since he was loaned here from Watford and it is fair enough for posters to raise questions but his goals have been very well taken and fair play to him. I am sure he would, himself, say that he has been disappointed as well if he was being honest.
Got us a win last night. | | | |
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