| Martin - Perspective so far 19:25 - Sep 15 with 11720 views | Rock |
Martin didn’t get a pre-season with us, and has had five weeks to come in to a new club and get to know a completely new set of players and league, while attempting to change the identity and style of play back to where we were during our most successful period. This was the sole reason the owners paid almost half a million pounds to bring him here, full well knowing it would be a difficult transition at first. They did not do that just to change the script after a month or persevere with Cooper’s negative tactics. No matter what a few contrarian posters on here want or think, Martin will be here and the club are prepared for the long haul, so best to shape up and live in reality.
Our players have had two years, and this pre-season, of Cooperball built around sitting deep, clearing the ball under any pressure and hoofing it up to Ayew hoping he can get fouled and win a free-kick. It was always going to take a bit of time to get them to change their instincts at this point, and it’s certainly going to take longer without a pre-season to show them his preferred methods and patterns of play. Martin’s system is very dynamic but structured, built around positional play, and is very complex and different from what they have been accustomed to. Additionally, as Farke and Martin have both said recently, pre-season is about building fitness, and our squad is still not up to snuff on that yet. A long list of injuries and COVID outbreaks combined with a congested run of 7 games in 21 days did not help either, as the team barely had a handful of training sessions together before the international break. We saw a much-changed group of players this weekend, and that will only continue to get better with time.
Norwich under Farke has dominated the Championship playing positive, possession football but it didn’t happen overnight. His first season at Carrow Road resulted in the club finishing 13th and there were calls at difficult moments, mostly on social media, for him to be sacked. Pukki and Krul were unheralded free transfers and Buendia was an unknown brought in for just over £1m. Cantwell started just 18 games that first promotion season and had minimal impact (1 goals, 2 assists). Norwich’s leadership, sporting director Stuart Webber, understood that to build anything of quality takes time, patience and mettle, especially with the best architects. Farke was given time to develop the squad and implement his system, and they have achieved promotion in two of the following three seasons, while playing some of the best football the league has ever seen.
When Thomas Frank took over Brentford in October 2018 they were 6th in the division. They then lost eight of their first ten matches under him and were 17th or lower from the beginning of December until March, only finishing 12th after three wins to end the season, one of which was a forfeit by Bolton. And he wasn’t implementing a new playing style or getting to know a new team. He is a bright, quality coach but his reign has mostly been a continuation and slight refinement of the work that came before him by Dean Smith. Brentford stuck by him, and now they are beating Arsenal and in the top half of the PL a few seasons later.
Quality work takes time. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Martin is doing quality work, within a very difficult set of parameters, and has already had some impressive performances with our players and the type of football we are seeing. The results will come. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Time, patience and holding your nerve are the keys. |  | | |  |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 19:38 - Sep 15 with 9475 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Brentford spent €48m under Frank before they got promotion. Comparisons to them are ludicrous.
Norwich spent €28m under Farke before they got promotion, and also got the benefit of the emergence of Max Aarons who is worth a reported £22m and Todd Cantwell who is worth a reported £40m. Between them they played 64 games in their promotion season.
Suggesting we can buy players like Pukki and Buendia again is a bit like the Michu argument. Unfortunately it’s not that common.
I admire your positivity, but it’s important to have a dash of realism in there too. |  |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 21:52 - Sep 15 with 9416 views | AndyCole |
.
I wrote this last night on another thread (but isn't showing for some reason) :
.
Time for a reality check.
Unbelievably disappointing, in so many ways. Something's not right about Martin. Most especially how he has manipulated our Club to spend more than ever.
Some of the cleverer rational thinkers who look at facts, stats, game plans, strategies, ongoing game tactics, subbing tactics, team spirit, hwyl, bouncebackability - will be utterly underwhelmed and somewhat concerned with the demise this term. We have regressed at an alarming rate, in almost all ways.
The emotional thinkers, the ones who seem unable to objectively assess, are somehow delighted despite us languishing in the bottom 5 (still). The same emotional thinkers were moaning when we were playing winning Top6/4 football, with a shout of EPL glory. They make no sense, and are becoming ever more non-sensical with their constant trolling.
I for one was hopeful with RM's appointment, at the outset. The rational thinkers were looking forward to us building upon our strengths and maybe kicking on to another level. Fresh blood when the Club seemed tired.
Yet RM has thrown all our good bits out with the bathwater. He even attempted to oust our proper#9, until the senior players intervened. Yet RM has somehow got us spending like never before. And is still looking to spend. Something's not right.......
.....watch this space, something's not right.
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 08:40 - Sep 16 with 9242 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 21:52 - Sep 15 by AndyCole |
.
I wrote this last night on another thread (but isn't showing for some reason) :
.
Time for a reality check.
Unbelievably disappointing, in so many ways. Something's not right about Martin. Most especially how he has manipulated our Club to spend more than ever.
Some of the cleverer rational thinkers who look at facts, stats, game plans, strategies, ongoing game tactics, subbing tactics, team spirit, hwyl, bouncebackability - will be utterly underwhelmed and somewhat concerned with the demise this term. We have regressed at an alarming rate, in almost all ways.
The emotional thinkers, the ones who seem unable to objectively assess, are somehow delighted despite us languishing in the bottom 5 (still). The same emotional thinkers were moaning when we were playing winning Top6/4 football, with a shout of EPL glory. They make no sense, and are becoming ever more non-sensical with their constant trolling.
I for one was hopeful with RM's appointment, at the outset. The rational thinkers were looking forward to us building upon our strengths and maybe kicking on to another level. Fresh blood when the Club seemed tired.
Yet RM has thrown all our good bits out with the bathwater. He even attempted to oust our proper#9, until the senior players intervened. Yet RM has somehow got us spending like never before. And is still looking to spend. Something's not right.......
.....watch this space, something's not right.
.
. |
Correction - Brentford played the winning top 6 football and got the EPL glory. They thrashed us in one of the most one sided Championship play off finals ever. You’re simply wrong but you aren’t man enough to admit it. But it’s understandable as you must be late teens or early twenties to write such overtly emotional garbage. Don’t worry though, in ten years time you’ll turn around and laugh at yourself. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 09:32 - Sep 16 with 9154 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 09:04 - Sep 16 by PatchesOHoulihan |
It wouldnt matter who it was under we would have thought the same thing, after a full season, in a 1 off game where we could have reached the prem we simply failed to perform...as we had done for the previous 2 months
We regressed alarmingly 2nd half of the season by beciming more pragmatic and defensive - first half of season we were much more positive even if we played defensively (if that makes sense) |
Because they were a much better team than us, that simple.
Our squad was extremely limited and thin. The owners failed to add the correct players in January when Cooper was calling for them. They made some ludicrous decisions and we naturally ran out of steam.
That of course is one of the main reasons reported why Cooper was so furious. Understandably so. | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 09:41 - Sep 16 with 9156 views | Catullus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 09:04 - Sep 16 by PatchesOHoulihan |
It wouldnt matter who it was under we would have thought the same thing, after a full season, in a 1 off game where we could have reached the prem we simply failed to perform...as we had done for the previous 2 months
We regressed alarmingly 2nd half of the season by beciming more pragmatic and defensive - first half of season we were much more positive even if we played defensively (if that makes sense) |
That is the big difference, we were proactive in defence early in the season, we controlled games by sending the attack where we wanted which was down blind alleys, we weren't allowing the ball into the box which was why Woodman was getting clean sheets. Later on we weren't in control, we were forced back rather than be in control.
That play off final,not a single shot on target, how were we going to score? We had the most possession but were so painfully obviously much the worse team.
Last nights game, anybody with a brain could see that we aren't far away from getting the win. It has to come soon though or confidence may suffer. Be honest, Millwall are a better team than Hull and are always a handful but we did pretty good really. Still improvements to be made but we are going in the right direction whereas under Cooper we were very much heading in the wrong direction. | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 09:44 - Sep 16 with 9142 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 09:41 - Sep 16 by Catullus |
That is the big difference, we were proactive in defence early in the season, we controlled games by sending the attack where we wanted which was down blind alleys, we weren't allowing the ball into the box which was why Woodman was getting clean sheets. Later on we weren't in control, we were forced back rather than be in control.
That play off final,not a single shot on target, how were we going to score? We had the most possession but were so painfully obviously much the worse team.
Last nights game, anybody with a brain could see that we aren't far away from getting the win. It has to come soon though or confidence may suffer. Be honest, Millwall are a better team than Hull and are always a handful but we did pretty good really. Still improvements to be made but we are going in the right direction whereas under Cooper we were very much heading in the wrong direction. |
I don’t think not managing to direct our efforts on target was part of the game plan somehow. 
Under Cooper we progressed every year, no getting away from that fact.
Took over - 10th place position under Potter
Year 1 - 6th, play off semi
Year 2 - 4th, play off final (joint record points tally in our Championship history)
You can have a go for anything you like with Cooper, but it’s best to not make up reasons that aren’t accurate.
Forward progression certainly isn’t something you can level at him. It’s factually inaccurate. [Post edited 16 Sep 2021 9:52]
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:36 - Sep 16 with 9066 views | Badlands |
Whoosh |  |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:44 - Sep 16 with 9042 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:36 - Sep 16 by Badlands |
Whoosh |
Bless you | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 12:02 - Sep 16 with 9001 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 21:52 - Sep 15 by AndyCole |
.
I wrote this last night on another thread (but isn't showing for some reason) :
.
Time for a reality check.
Unbelievably disappointing, in so many ways. Something's not right about Martin. Most especially how he has manipulated our Club to spend more than ever.
Some of the cleverer rational thinkers who look at facts, stats, game plans, strategies, ongoing game tactics, subbing tactics, team spirit, hwyl, bouncebackability - will be utterly underwhelmed and somewhat concerned with the demise this term. We have regressed at an alarming rate, in almost all ways.
The emotional thinkers, the ones who seem unable to objectively assess, are somehow delighted despite us languishing in the bottom 5 (still). The same emotional thinkers were moaning when we were playing winning Top6/4 football, with a shout of EPL glory. They make no sense, and are becoming ever more non-sensical with their constant trolling.
I for one was hopeful with RM's appointment, at the outset. The rational thinkers were looking forward to us building upon our strengths and maybe kicking on to another level. Fresh blood when the Club seemed tired.
Yet RM has thrown all our good bits out with the bathwater. He even attempted to oust our proper#9, until the senior players intervened. Yet RM has somehow got us spending like never before. And is still looking to spend. Something's not right.......
.....watch this space, something's not right.
.
. |
Spending like never before 😀
What alternate universe do you live in? | | | |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 12:05 - Sep 16 with 8992 views | A_Fans_Dad |
The OP is trying very hard to ignore the obvious problems that are apparent in Martin's approach to player selection and positioning. | | | |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 16:21 - Sep 16 with 8901 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 19:38 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
Brentford spent €48m under Frank before they got promotion. Comparisons to them are ludicrous.
Norwich spent €28m under Farke before they got promotion, and also got the benefit of the emergence of Max Aarons who is worth a reported £22m and Todd Cantwell who is worth a reported £40m. Between them they played 64 games in their promotion season.
Suggesting we can buy players like Pukki and Buendia again is a bit like the Michu argument. Unfortunately it’s not that common.
I admire your positivity, but it’s important to have a dash of realism in there too. |
Please talk 'net spend'. Brentford lost in the play offs to Fulham and were then lost Watkins and and Benrahma. Two real quality players. The net spend was not a lot and possibly even negative. They have consistently traded players with a low net spend. Mepham Woods etc.. Toney was a high risk signing Swansea could have made very cheaply but Potter went for the likes of Asoro McKay Celina and John.
Norwich similarly will not have had a great "net spend". They sold Lewis and Godfrey fo big bucks and reinvested. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 16:31 - Sep 16 with 8894 views | Catullus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 16:21 - Sep 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Please talk 'net spend'. Brentford lost in the play offs to Fulham and were then lost Watkins and and Benrahma. Two real quality players. The net spend was not a lot and possibly even negative. They have consistently traded players with a low net spend. Mepham Woods etc.. Toney was a high risk signing Swansea could have made very cheaply but Potter went for the likes of Asoro McKay Celina and John.
Norwich similarly will not have had a great "net spend". They sold Lewis and Godfrey fo big bucks and reinvested. |
Yes lets talk net spend, it's a better judge surely. What was our net spend last window? We were almost even weren't we, depending on the add ons which we won't know for ages.
Last season, ok we didn't buy much so we didn't spend much onntransfer fees but what were our loan fees? They have to be counted too.
5 weeks and we have improved
5 weeks and we've started earning clean sheets
5 weeks and Obafemi is looking fitter and dangerous
we are now unbeaten in two with Luton next then a cup game to come and so Martin has a bit more time to work with them before the next home league game, Huddersfield on the 25th,that's my sons birthday, I reckon I know what he'll want! | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 16:35 - Sep 16 with 8890 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
I do not follow European football in detail but listened t the pundits whinging at Man Utds 2-1 defeat v Young boys of Zurich. One pundit was hopping mad that with 10 men Young boys over ran them in mid filed at the Wan*dorf Stadium with good accurate possession based football with tempo and energy.
This is clearly what Martin wants. A squad of limited hyped players with high technical ability giving the likes of Pogba and Fernandez and Sancho the run around. This is what Swansea wants, surely. Checking the BBC stats they had 56% possession against the superstars.
Who I wondered was in charge there. A new Germanic name to take note of? An embryonic Tuchel Swansea could get in early?
No it was Winter's and Klopp's old mate David Wagner who has bombed bombed after Huddersfield. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 18:45 - Sep 16 with 8839 views | onehunglow |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 16:31 - Sep 16 by Catullus |
Yes lets talk net spend, it's a better judge surely. What was our net spend last window? We were almost even weren't we, depending on the add ons which we won't know for ages.
Last season, ok we didn't buy much so we didn't spend much onntransfer fees but what were our loan fees? They have to be counted too.
5 weeks and we have improved
5 weeks and we've started earning clean sheets
5 weeks and Obafemi is looking fitter and dangerous
we are now unbeaten in two with Luton next then a cup game to come and so Martin has a bit more time to work with them before the next home league game, Huddersfield on the 25th,that's my sons birthday, I reckon I know what he'll want! |
Five weeks yet still unable to score in successive home matches.
Cullen plays befor Whittaker.
We are being dumbed down | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 21:20 - Sep 16 with 8765 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 16:21 - Sep 16 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Please talk 'net spend'. Brentford lost in the play offs to Fulham and were then lost Watkins and and Benrahma. Two real quality players. The net spend was not a lot and possibly even negative. They have consistently traded players with a low net spend. Mepham Woods etc.. Toney was a high risk signing Swansea could have made very cheaply but Potter went for the likes of Asoro McKay Celina and John.
Norwich similarly will not have had a great "net spend". They sold Lewis and Godfrey fo big bucks and reinvested. |
That is how clubs grow.
They sell or or two players for high amounts and then can upgrade the whole side. I don’t buy the “net spend” argument when it comes to the sale of 1 or 2 players.
Without the sale of Benrhama and Watkins I don’t think they would have gone up.
A bit like Spurs, sell a single player in Bale for £85m and as a result were able to bring in the likes of Christian Erickson for 11.5m and have the rest to upgrade elsewhere. Whether they spent wisely however is another thing.
Liverpool sell Torres for £50m, and are then able to bring in Suarez for half that and improve their team elsewhere. It’s about buying and selling in different markets, giving yourself more value and increasing the overall quality of your side.
But selling such a player(s) absolutely then gives you a big advantage over others in the subsequent season(s), especially at Championship level with 40m in your pocket to be spent on transfers. It would be crazy to suggest otherwise, it gives massive margin of error that other clubs don’t have the luxury of having.
Our net spend in the Premier League in our first 6 seasons there was about break even, however the fact we were able to bring in over a hundred million pounds worth of players from better markets mean we were able to get some incredible value and improve the side overall.
If that wasn’t the case then we should have been able to achieve exactly the same in those 6 seasons if we went up and bought/sold nobody, just extended contracts… which I’m sure nobody really believes. [Post edited 16 Sep 2021 21:30]
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 21:32 - Sep 16 with 8739 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 18:45 - Sep 16 by onehunglow |
Five weeks yet still unable to score in successive home matches.
Cullen plays befor Whittaker.
We are being dumbed down |
And it’s not 5 weeks.
We are fast approaching the 20% of the season mark. | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:33 - Sep 17 with 8630 views | jackrmee |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 21:32 - Sep 16 by Dr_Parnassus |
And it’s not 5 weeks.
We are fast approaching the 20% of the season mark. |
20% is after another 2 games, which is another 2 weeks. |  |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:34 - Sep 17 with 8621 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:33 - Sep 17 by jackrmee |
20% is after another 2 games, which is another 2 weeks. |
2 weeks?
8 days you mean. As I said, fast approaching. | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:44 - Sep 17 with 8608 views | jackrmee |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:34 - Sep 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
2 weeks?
8 days you mean. As I said, fast approaching. |
8 days until the start of the next game.
12 days until the start of the game that takes us over the 20% mark. | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:47 - Sep 17 with 8599 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:44 - Sep 17 by jackrmee |
8 days until the start of the next game.
12 days until the start of the game that takes us over the 20% mark. |
Luton game been cancelled has it?
You had better inform the club quickly. | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:51 - Sep 17 with 8598 views | jackrmee |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:47 - Sep 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Luton game been cancelled has it?
You had better inform the club quickly. |
Luton game is 8th game.
20% of season comes after 9.2 games.
Hence, after, not before the Hudds game. We don't pass 20% of the season until after we have played ulham on 29/09 | |
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| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:54 - Sep 17 with 8589 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Martin - Perspective so far on 10:51 - Sep 17 by jackrmee |
Luton game is 8th game.
20% of season comes after 9.2 games.
Hence, after, not before the Hudds game. We don't pass 20% of the season until after we have played ulham on 29/09 |
Be careful, you’re in danger of being the next Jack24/7 - or his next victim. Hopefully Simon Jordan’s honest assessment of Cooper will drag him onto talk sport for a bit | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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