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Apologies if this conversation is buried in a thread somewhere...
Harrogate are not allowing away fans in their stadium for a pre season game against Doncaster. They also weren't allowed any supporters whatsoever for a game against Sunderland the other day.
With that in mind, and our game only being 8 days away (and we play there in the cup 3 days later).. does anyone have any idea what arrangements are for the game? Will we need tickets? Can we pay on the gate?
If somebody from the club is reading this then any information would be appreciated
Haha. Did you miss the news pics of flooded tube stations and cars under water a few weeks ago? I jokingly said at the time that not only were the Southerners happy to keep the nations wealth, they wanted all the water too.
Anyhow we now have a good smattering of Daleys on the Harrogate social media sites seeking an EFL points deduction and calling them tinpot. I thought we were better than bury. Especially given that it wasn't that many years since Dale earned a masters degree in how to postpone games at the last minute after fans have travelled. Short memories. What did make me laugh is the person claiming we would have sold 1200 tickets if they had been on sale......yet we can barely scrape 1500 Season Card sales at home. This long covid lark is really taking its toll on some.
Yes, I did miss it, as I've indicated. Was it particularly bad in the Sutton area?
Regardless of what's happened with late postponements at Dale in the past (Have there really been that many that you could class as 'late'? Maybe I'll look it up.), or what some people say on Twitter, or what bury fans may have said or done previously, it still doesn't justify Harrogate's lack of communication on the matter in recent days and weeks, nor the fact their ground still can't host an EFL game with fans of both clubs in attendance.
As is repeatedly pointed out, they won promotion to the EFL a year ago. Why hasn't this already been sorted out?
Were you planning on attending the game if you were able to?
[Post edited 3 Aug 2021 17:27]
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
Haha. Did you miss the news pics of flooded tube stations and cars under water a few weeks ago? I jokingly said at the time that not only were the Southerners happy to keep the nations wealth, they wanted all the water too.
Anyhow we now have a good smattering of Daleys on the Harrogate social media sites seeking an EFL points deduction and calling them tinpot. I thought we were better than bury. Especially given that it wasn't that many years since Dale earned a masters degree in how to postpone games at the last minute after fans have travelled. Short memories. What did make me laugh is the person claiming we would have sold 1200 tickets if they had been on sale......yet we can barely scrape 1500 Season Card sales at home. This long covid lark is really taking its toll on some.
We took 900 to Cheltenham and Oxford on the opening day in the past. Are our home crowds going to be lower? Yes. Will this impact away followings? Maybe. But for the opening day there would have been a good chance we’d have sold the allocation (think it was 700 terrace and 200 seats) had tickets been on sale for the last month for a game just over an hour away.
The percentage of away fans travelling compared to home crowds has been consistently one of the best in the entire country.
Haha. Did you miss the news pics of flooded tube stations and cars under water a few weeks ago? I jokingly said at the time that not only were the Southerners happy to keep the nations wealth, they wanted all the water too.
Anyhow we now have a good smattering of Daleys on the Harrogate social media sites seeking an EFL points deduction and calling them tinpot. I thought we were better than bury. Especially given that it wasn't that many years since Dale earned a masters degree in how to postpone games at the last minute after fans have travelled. Short memories. What did make me laugh is the person claiming we would have sold 1200 tickets if they had been on sale......yet we can barely scrape 1500 Season Card sales at home. This long covid lark is really taking its toll on some.
"This long covid lark is really taking its toll on some."
Long Covid "takes its toll" on everyone affected by it
We took 900 to Cheltenham and Oxford on the opening day in the past. Are our home crowds going to be lower? Yes. Will this impact away followings? Maybe. But for the opening day there would have been a good chance we’d have sold the allocation (think it was 700 terrace and 200 seats) had tickets been on sale for the last month for a game just over an hour away.
The percentage of away fans travelling compared to home crowds has been consistently one of the best in the entire country.
[Post edited 3 Aug 2021 17:37]
And Cheltenham somehow had a ground which could cope with the largest away following they had probably ever seen at that point, even though they had only been promoted three months earlier.
They also communicated properly with people in the days long before Twitter, etc.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
Haha. Did you miss the news pics of flooded tube stations and cars under water a few weeks ago? I jokingly said at the time that not only were the Southerners happy to keep the nations wealth, they wanted all the water too.
Anyhow we now have a good smattering of Daleys on the Harrogate social media sites seeking an EFL points deduction and calling them tinpot. I thought we were better than bury. Especially given that it wasn't that many years since Dale earned a masters degree in how to postpone games at the last minute after fans have travelled. Short memories. What did make me laugh is the person claiming we would have sold 1200 tickets if they had been on sale......yet we can barely scrape 1500 Season Card sales at home. This long covid lark is really taking its toll on some.
Another point:
"Especially given that it wasn't that many years since Dale earned a masters degree in how to postpone games at the last minute after fans have travelled"
The majority of Dale fans who've posted on here at the time have been equally critical of the club for poor communications around late postponements. Criticising Daleys for voicing their frustration with Harrogate is wide of the mark when we're consistent with our approach
Yes, I did miss it, as I've indicated. Was it particularly bad in the Sutton area?
Regardless of what's happened with late postponements at Dale in the past (Have there really been that many that you could class as 'late'? Maybe I'll look it up.), or what some people say on Twitter, or what bury fans may have said or done previously, it still doesn't justify Harrogate's lack of communication on the matter in recent days and weeks, nor the fact their ground still can't host an EFL game with fans of both clubs in attendance.
As is repeatedly pointed out, they won promotion to the EFL a year ago. Why hasn't this already been sorted out?
Were you planning on attending the game if you were able to?
[Post edited 3 Aug 2021 17:27]
I know you weren't asking me TVOS but yes I was/am planning on going, put down unavailable on the overtime availability sheet. Haven't purchased train tickets yet but that's because there is no advantage for me to book them in advance
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
And Cheltenham somehow had a ground which could cope with the largest away following they had probably ever seen at that point, even though they had only been promoted three months earlier.
They also communicated properly with people in the days long before Twitter, etc.
I know you weren't asking me TVOS but yes I was/am planning on going, put down unavailable on the overtime availability sheet. Haven't purchased train tickets yet but that's because there is no advantage for me to book them in advance
But you're a perfect example of why this whole scenario isn't acceptable, James.
At least with the Sutton v Salford and Sutton v Hartlepool situation, they have sorted it out at least 10 days before the games were due to take place.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
But you're a perfect example of why this whole scenario isn't acceptable, James.
At least with the Sutton v Salford and Sutton v Hartlepool situation, they have sorted it out at least 10 days before the games were due to take place.
I was considering booking myself a room for the night on Saturday glad I haven't now.
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Haha. Did you miss the news pics of flooded tube stations and cars under water a few weeks ago? I jokingly said at the time that not only were the Southerners happy to keep the nations wealth, they wanted all the water too.
Anyhow we now have a good smattering of Daleys on the Harrogate social media sites seeking an EFL points deduction and calling them tinpot. I thought we were better than bury. Especially given that it wasn't that many years since Dale earned a masters degree in how to postpone games at the last minute after fans have travelled. Short memories. What did make me laugh is the person claiming we would have sold 1200 tickets if they had been on sale......yet we can barely scrape 1500 Season Card sales at home. This long covid lark is really taking its toll on some.
It’s a seriously good job we don’t have another 2000 fans like you. Jesus Christ.
Yes, I did miss it, as I've indicated. Was it particularly bad in the Sutton area?
Regardless of what's happened with late postponements at Dale in the past (Have there really been that many that you could class as 'late'? Maybe I'll look it up.), or what some people say on Twitter, or what bury fans may have said or done previously, it still doesn't justify Harrogate's lack of communication on the matter in recent days and weeks, nor the fact their ground still can't host an EFL game with fans of both clubs in attendance.
As is repeatedly pointed out, they won promotion to the EFL a year ago. Why hasn't this already been sorted out?
Were you planning on attending the game if you were able to?
[Post edited 3 Aug 2021 17:27]
As my work is in Sutton, I'll stick up for them a little bit and acknowledge that down 'ere we've had three torrential storms in three weeks of no more than a couple of hours each. Thought my own flat was going to flood briefly last week!
I work with some people who are quite closely involved with Sutton Utd too, and as far as I understand it, even as late as Christmas there was talk of not accepting a place in League Two. Their 3G pitch was used every night of the week by various youth and women's teams from across London, and by schools.
I believe the club spent a lot of time this close season ensuring all those teams found alternative venues as obviously they won't be able to hire out the grass pitch.
It was interesting to see that one of the fan led review of football recommendations recently was to allow artificial pitches in League Two at least, which seems reasonable given they are a vast improvement on what we remember from Luton, Oldham etc in the 80s.
Looking forward to our two games against Sutton, but I might be insisting on working from home for a bit if they beat us in either game!
As my work is in Sutton, I'll stick up for them a little bit and acknowledge that down 'ere we've had three torrential storms in three weeks of no more than a couple of hours each. Thought my own flat was going to flood briefly last week!
I work with some people who are quite closely involved with Sutton Utd too, and as far as I understand it, even as late as Christmas there was talk of not accepting a place in League Two. Their 3G pitch was used every night of the week by various youth and women's teams from across London, and by schools.
I believe the club spent a lot of time this close season ensuring all those teams found alternative venues as obviously they won't be able to hire out the grass pitch.
It was interesting to see that one of the fan led review of football recommendations recently was to allow artificial pitches in League Two at least, which seems reasonable given they are a vast improvement on what we remember from Luton, Oldham etc in the 80s.
Looking forward to our two games against Sutton, but I might be insisting on working from home for a bit if they beat us in either game!
When they’re talking about providing opportunities for grassroots football, it’s silly they’re making teams switch to grass now. Is it perfect? No. But it’s not 1990 at Boundary Park either. Nor is it like Peterborough’s was last season and Newport’s every year.
Haha. Did you miss the news pics of flooded tube stations and cars under water a few weeks ago? I jokingly said at the time that not only were the Southerners happy to keep the nations wealth, they wanted all the water too.
Anyhow we now have a good smattering of Daleys on the Harrogate social media sites seeking an EFL points deduction and calling them tinpot. I thought we were better than bury. Especially given that it wasn't that many years since Dale earned a masters degree in how to postpone games at the last minute after fans have travelled. Short memories. What did make me laugh is the person claiming we would have sold 1200 tickets if they had been on sale......yet we can barely scrape 1500 Season Card sales at home. This long covid lark is really taking its toll on some.
It’s all about fairness and not giving one team an advantage over another. If the game is postponed it affects both sides the same. Of course it’s worse for away fans if it’s done late and I don’t recall anyone defending the club when we’ve been the ones doing it at the last minute. But that’s not what’s going on here. These aren’t circumstances which are a little bit out of any football clubs control. It’s not a bad stretch of weather that is threatening the game it’s the ground seemingly not being up to scratch to allow away fans to enter. I can’t recall this ever happening for a newly promoted side into League Two - I can only remember teams being denied promotion because their ground wasn’t up to standard. It is and should be unacceptable that a club can’t allow away fans into its ground because the facilities aren’t good enough. The whole point of football league standards is a basic level for everyone including those recently promoted. For it to happen now, after all this time that they’ve had to get their ground up to the required level, when it will be for most Dale fans the first opportunity to go to a match in what 18 months - all of it is a perfect storm for fans to be bitterly disappointed and in my view entirely reasonably pissed off. So why don’t you stick your criticisms of your own club and own fans right up your ringpiece.
When they’re talking about providing opportunities for grassroots football, it’s silly they’re making teams switch to grass now. Is it perfect? No. But it’s not 1990 at Boundary Park either. Nor is it like Peterborough’s was last season and Newport’s every year.
I would love to see it become the norm. But I don't think they'd ever do it because they'll want the entire football league to be the same (to stop claims of unfair advantage etc). But like you say, would they rather a 3G pitch or the joke of Peterboroughs pitch last season?
As my work is in Sutton, I'll stick up for them a little bit and acknowledge that down 'ere we've had three torrential storms in three weeks of no more than a couple of hours each. Thought my own flat was going to flood briefly last week!
I work with some people who are quite closely involved with Sutton Utd too, and as far as I understand it, even as late as Christmas there was talk of not accepting a place in League Two. Their 3G pitch was used every night of the week by various youth and women's teams from across London, and by schools.
I believe the club spent a lot of time this close season ensuring all those teams found alternative venues as obviously they won't be able to hire out the grass pitch.
It was interesting to see that one of the fan led review of football recommendations recently was to allow artificial pitches in League Two at least, which seems reasonable given they are a vast improvement on what we remember from Luton, Oldham etc in the 80s.
Looking forward to our two games against Sutton, but I might be insisting on working from home for a bit if they beat us in either game!
Thanks krafty.
Obviously Sutton's issues are affected by the elements, but Harrogate's seem to be only affected by their inability to sort it out.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
It’s all about fairness and not giving one team an advantage over another. If the game is postponed it affects both sides the same. Of course it’s worse for away fans if it’s done late and I don’t recall anyone defending the club when we’ve been the ones doing it at the last minute. But that’s not what’s going on here. These aren’t circumstances which are a little bit out of any football clubs control. It’s not a bad stretch of weather that is threatening the game it’s the ground seemingly not being up to scratch to allow away fans to enter. I can’t recall this ever happening for a newly promoted side into League Two - I can only remember teams being denied promotion because their ground wasn’t up to standard. It is and should be unacceptable that a club can’t allow away fans into its ground because the facilities aren’t good enough. The whole point of football league standards is a basic level for everyone including those recently promoted. For it to happen now, after all this time that they’ve had to get their ground up to the required level, when it will be for most Dale fans the first opportunity to go to a match in what 18 months - all of it is a perfect storm for fans to be bitterly disappointed and in my view entirely reasonably pissed off. So why don’t you stick your criticisms of your own club and own fans right up your ringpiece.
Thank you Cedar. Think I will pass on that. Whilst I acknowledge it is frustrating, I still think some fans are should wait and see what happens before they castigate a newly promoted club. People have jumped to the conclusion that they have failed to meet EFL regulations without any proof that they haven't. Nobody knows what they need to do to get North Yorkshire council safety group to approve their safety licence. The stadium was approved to allow fans in for League Two games last year so was EFL compliant, yet suddenly was not approved to allow any fans of either side in at the start of this season (aka Sunderland friendly). That doesn't feel like they have not met EFL rules but something that local officials have an opinion on
Interesting that this week the Christmas markets have been cancelled in Harrogate on safety grounds citing covid and terrorism risk. Really? The business community is up in arms. Seems to me that their club might just be battling with over zealous local officialdom. Maybe they need your advice
Will we or would we have been the first league game with away fans in actual attendance? It would be interesting see what the seventeen issues the council have raised, they could something serious and something minor. The two highlighted included the police box not being connected to the phone lines and tannoy system, besides not having enough stewards, which can be dealt with with some ease, I would imagine.
It is not unusual for a safety licence for a football club to be withheld or withdrawn for various reasons from slight damage to a terrace to not enough facilities. But it begs the question what was the safety officer doing for twelve months, especially when the club identified something like seven issues and the council seventeen. Hopefully the issues will be sorted and Dale fans able to attend, even if it is pay on the day, but one thing is, it as made Harrogate Town look very amateurish. Which makes me sorry for the loyal and faithful fans, who Saturday was or is going to be a big day, the first game in which they can attend a home game in the football league.
Thank you Cedar. Think I will pass on that. Whilst I acknowledge it is frustrating, I still think some fans are should wait and see what happens before they castigate a newly promoted club. People have jumped to the conclusion that they have failed to meet EFL regulations without any proof that they haven't. Nobody knows what they need to do to get North Yorkshire council safety group to approve their safety licence. The stadium was approved to allow fans in for League Two games last year so was EFL compliant, yet suddenly was not approved to allow any fans of either side in at the start of this season (aka Sunderland friendly). That doesn't feel like they have not met EFL rules but something that local officials have an opinion on
Interesting that this week the Christmas markets have been cancelled in Harrogate on safety grounds citing covid and terrorism risk. Really? The business community is up in arms. Seems to me that their club might just be battling with over zealous local officialdom. Maybe they need your advice
Wait and see what happens? We're 3 days away from the game and people still aren't able to make travel arrangements. Even if they allow fans in at this point, it'll be too late to post out tickets and presumably they won't allow pay on the day with the amount of Dale fans expected.
That's not to mention their lack of communication until a tweet yesterday that I'm quite certain wouldn't have been posted if not for the several Dale fans replying to their other tweets. I've also tried to ring their ticket office and media office a handful of times each in the last few days, only for the phone to ring out with no answer every time.
Wait and see what happens? We're 3 days away from the game and people still aren't able to make travel arrangements. Even if they allow fans in at this point, it'll be too late to post out tickets and presumably they won't allow pay on the day with the amount of Dale fans expected.
That's not to mention their lack of communication until a tweet yesterday that I'm quite certain wouldn't have been posted if not for the several Dale fans replying to their other tweets. I've also tried to ring their ticket office and media office a handful of times each in the last few days, only for the phone to ring out with no answer every time.
They aren't answering the phones.
More tinpottery.
Dalenet seems to have lost the plot here, as well as his argument, which is sad, because he is usually a good poster on here. Just so he knows why I am disagreeing so strongly with him on this occasion....
1) Harrogate are NOT newly promoted. They won promotion the season before last...about 15 months ago. Plenty of time to sort these things out with the authorities.
2) If travelling by train, you need to plan your journey more that a day or two in advance. Likewise, ordering tickets etc needs to be done in advance.
3) Away fans were not allowed into stadiums last season; even when a limited number of home supporters were. This meant that there was less need for stewarding/segregation/cctv etc than if away fans were present.
I'm literally hanging on a thread here because if we can't attend the game I'm being forced to go out with the missus on Friday night which will cost more than the flaming away day!
Thank you Cedar. Think I will pass on that. Whilst I acknowledge it is frustrating, I still think some fans are should wait and see what happens before they castigate a newly promoted club. People have jumped to the conclusion that they have failed to meet EFL regulations without any proof that they haven't. Nobody knows what they need to do to get North Yorkshire council safety group to approve their safety licence. The stadium was approved to allow fans in for League Two games last year so was EFL compliant, yet suddenly was not approved to allow any fans of either side in at the start of this season (aka Sunderland friendly). That doesn't feel like they have not met EFL rules but something that local officials have an opinion on
Interesting that this week the Christmas markets have been cancelled in Harrogate on safety grounds citing covid and terrorism risk. Really? The business community is up in arms. Seems to me that their club might just be battling with over zealous local officialdom. Maybe they need your advice
But they aren't a newly-promoted club. They have been in the EFL for a full season already and in the build-up to that season - probably as early as the end of 2019 - they would have been aware of the requirements should they win promotion.
One of those requirements was to replace their artificial pitch, which they did. Other requirements would have involved visits from ground safety people from the EFL and local authorities, who would have worked together to formulate what Harrogate needed to do to their ground to make it safe and compatible for an increasing in home and visiting supporters.
All that would have been necessary for them to start in League 2 last September, but here we are, 11 months later, and they still can't confirm who, if anyone, can attend on Saturday.
It's a complete and unacceptable shambles, whichever way you try to dress it up.
[Post edited 4 Aug 2021 10:12]
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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