| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:53 - Oct 8 with 886 views | DorsetIan |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 12:59 - Oct 8 by Saintsforeverj |
How do we know how long it takes for the virus to spread? All those who packed onto the beach, how do we know if say 3 people had it asymptomatically, spread it to 5 others, who gradually spread it to 10 others, then 20 others etc taking 2 months to notice?
As for this government getting it wrong (as suggested by some), I don't see any less problems in Scotland, France, USA, Spain, Italy, India or anywhere else. Boris certainly has got thing wrong, but nobody elected him because of his knowledge of surviving pandemics or alien invasions. And the biggest problem any government has, is the NHS or equivalent not being able to cope. As someone mentioned, 700 students can get it, they are all fine so what is the problem? Well if they pass it on to vulnerable people, who end up in hospital, this happens across the country, hospitals end up with people in coridors gasping for breath, without proper treatment.
The single most fear of the government, as I understand it, is people dying in the streets, because the NHS can't cope. Hospitals in the North, already reporting that they are close to being full. Otherwise, we could just all risk it and catch it, knowing that that treatment would be available. But they can't allow the NHS to possibly get swamped over the winter.
The only answer really is a total lockdown. But the economy would crash, probably causing other health problems. What can we do?? [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 13:03]
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You may be right but I was watching the Dorset numbers pretty carefully and despite the beaches down here being packed, even now there just isn't any marked increase.
My wider complaint, is shouldn't all these supposed smarty-pants data analysts controlled by Cummings know exactly what impact the beach goers or pub goers or supermarket goers had?
How are we ever going to get even a modest handle on this until we can draw some conclusions about which behaviours are OK and which can be avoided. |  |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 15:02 - Oct 8 with 881 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:53 - Oct 8 by DorsetIan |
You may be right but I was watching the Dorset numbers pretty carefully and despite the beaches down here being packed, even now there just isn't any marked increase.
My wider complaint, is shouldn't all these supposed smarty-pants data analysts controlled by Cummings know exactly what impact the beach goers or pub goers or supermarket goers had?
How are we ever going to get even a modest handle on this until we can draw some conclusions about which behaviours are OK and which can be avoided. |
I think the reality is that you can't analyse every single person. A beach could be full, without anybody on it carrying the virus. A pub down the road from the beach could be full, with half of the people infected. One of the infected people in the pub, could walk to the beach for an ice cream and infect a further 5 people. We end up thinking the infection came from the beach, when it actually came from the pub. We couldn't possibly know all this information, unless we test everybody, everywhere, which is surely impossible. Likewise, you could be 2 metres away from an infected person and not get it, but shake their hand and you get it.
One thing we do know, is that people infect other people when they have it, if they get close enough or you touch them. We need another full lockdown to be sure to stop the spread. But do that and you destroy people's lives. I don't know what would be best. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 15:08]
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 15:30 - Oct 8 with 856 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 15:02 - Oct 8 by Saintsforeverj |
I think the reality is that you can't analyse every single person. A beach could be full, without anybody on it carrying the virus. A pub down the road from the beach could be full, with half of the people infected. One of the infected people in the pub, could walk to the beach for an ice cream and infect a further 5 people. We end up thinking the infection came from the beach, when it actually came from the pub. We couldn't possibly know all this information, unless we test everybody, everywhere, which is surely impossible. Likewise, you could be 2 metres away from an infected person and not get it, but shake their hand and you get it.
One thing we do know, is that people infect other people when they have it, if they get close enough or you touch them. We need another full lockdown to be sure to stop the spread. But do that and you destroy people's lives. I don't know what would be best. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 15:08]
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thing is,
VE day - no marked difference
pubs full - no marked difference
beaches/parks full - no marked difference
various BLM protests - no marked difference
XR protests - no marked difference
far-right protests - no marked difference
eat out to help out - no marked difference
i bet the missing 48k positive cases will result in....no marked difference
testing vast numbers - more cases found, everyone panics.
Not as if this has gone away, just finding it more. I refer back to my point about Northumbria uni. Headlines were/are stark. Reality, everyone is fine and 90% of those tested were not even aware they had it. 100% of those with it, are perfectly fine. Should their lives be ruined for this? when 99.997% of those infected survive?
We are seeing a small upturn in hospital/deaths now. Like what happens every single winter with other illnesses (flu, as you probably know). Every single winter, the numbers going into hospital with respiratory issues increases, some years by a huge amount. yet we do not run down the country for that.
Shutting pubs at 10pm is a joke
allowing the Albert Hall to open but not football grounds is a joke
2 week lockdown idea is a joke
the only way to beat this is full lockdown until we are cured.
or just crack on as best possible and let people live. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 15:31]
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 15:38 - Oct 8 with 844 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 15:30 - Oct 8 by JaySaint |
thing is,
VE day - no marked difference
pubs full - no marked difference
beaches/parks full - no marked difference
various BLM protests - no marked difference
XR protests - no marked difference
far-right protests - no marked difference
eat out to help out - no marked difference
i bet the missing 48k positive cases will result in....no marked difference
testing vast numbers - more cases found, everyone panics.
Not as if this has gone away, just finding it more. I refer back to my point about Northumbria uni. Headlines were/are stark. Reality, everyone is fine and 90% of those tested were not even aware they had it. 100% of those with it, are perfectly fine. Should their lives be ruined for this? when 99.997% of those infected survive?
We are seeing a small upturn in hospital/deaths now. Like what happens every single winter with other illnesses (flu, as you probably know). Every single winter, the numbers going into hospital with respiratory issues increases, some years by a huge amount. yet we do not run down the country for that.
Shutting pubs at 10pm is a joke
allowing the Albert Hall to open but not football grounds is a joke
2 week lockdown idea is a joke
the only way to beat this is full lockdown until we are cured.
or just crack on as best possible and let people live. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 15:31]
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You or any of us don't know if there was "no marked difference". We don't know who lives where or how close they got to each other or how long it has taken for the virus to spread as a result of these events. We just don't know. I understand the temptation to just carry on as normal, but I will say again, it's understandable to me that they can't risk the possibility that people die at hospital entrances. That's the situation and that's why they are destroying the economy because it is a matter of life and death. You or I don't know any better. We just know that all countries putting in these measures must be doing so for a reason. There is no logical reason to destroy your own economy unless it is absolutely necessary.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511
But read this. Covid causes a lot more deaths than flu and other illnesses. Here are the facts. If as you say, there is no problem, we should just get on as normal, why arn't they doing it? Because every country just felt like destroying their economies? [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 15:44]
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 16:40 - Oct 8 with 814 views | DorsetIan |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 15:02 - Oct 8 by Saintsforeverj |
I think the reality is that you can't analyse every single person. A beach could be full, without anybody on it carrying the virus. A pub down the road from the beach could be full, with half of the people infected. One of the infected people in the pub, could walk to the beach for an ice cream and infect a further 5 people. We end up thinking the infection came from the beach, when it actually came from the pub. We couldn't possibly know all this information, unless we test everybody, everywhere, which is surely impossible. Likewise, you could be 2 metres away from an infected person and not get it, but shake their hand and you get it.
One thing we do know, is that people infect other people when they have it, if they get close enough or you touch them. We need another full lockdown to be sure to stop the spread. But do that and you destroy people's lives. I don't know what would be best. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 15:08]
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I think that's the point, they should be analysing every single person. Track and trace is supposed to be doing that, and sure it won't track everyone but there have been over 500,000 positive cases in the UK now. Each of those people is supposed to be asked who they have been with so their contacts can isolate. I would hope that they are also being asked some questions about where they have been in the last 10 days. If everyone lists pub and noone lists beaches, then that's a pretty good guide to which of those locations is causing the problem. Appreciate that it's not that simple but that's why data scientists get paid what they do - to spot less obvious trends in data.
Maybe they already have the information, or maybe they're not asking the right questions, but either way the only thing I think I know is to keep a distance, wash my hands and mask up.
If we need another lockdown to properly stop the spead, do we need ask whether we should have continued with the first one a bit longer, or maybe come out a bit slower?
Personally, I don't think that another national lockdown is ever going to happen now. Don't think the govt can stomach the economic pain and I don't think the public would be quite so sanguine about it a second time either. Political suicide too because so much of what we have been asked to do is to avoid a second wave and another lockdown. Difficult to spin that as anything other than a failure. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 17:30 - Oct 8 with 804 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 16:40 - Oct 8 by DorsetIan |
I think that's the point, they should be analysing every single person. Track and trace is supposed to be doing that, and sure it won't track everyone but there have been over 500,000 positive cases in the UK now. Each of those people is supposed to be asked who they have been with so their contacts can isolate. I would hope that they are also being asked some questions about where they have been in the last 10 days. If everyone lists pub and noone lists beaches, then that's a pretty good guide to which of those locations is causing the problem. Appreciate that it's not that simple but that's why data scientists get paid what they do - to spot less obvious trends in data.
Maybe they already have the information, or maybe they're not asking the right questions, but either way the only thing I think I know is to keep a distance, wash my hands and mask up.
If we need another lockdown to properly stop the spead, do we need ask whether we should have continued with the first one a bit longer, or maybe come out a bit slower?
Personally, I don't think that another national lockdown is ever going to happen now. Don't think the govt can stomach the economic pain and I don't think the public would be quite so sanguine about it a second time either. Political suicide too because so much of what we have been asked to do is to avoid a second wave and another lockdown. Difficult to spin that as anything other than a failure. |
Problem with track and trace, is that not everybody has a phone. Children don't have phones, many people in some areas can't afford WiFi, irresponsible people don't bother downloading the app etc etc. It might help a bit, but it's just impossible to track everyone, I would think.
Quick test results would be a way forward. Test everyone entering stadiums, pubs etc and don't let those in who test positive. But these tests don't exist. | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 09:10 - Oct 9 with 762 views | ThermosNBlanket |
Pubs and restaurants are an easy target, all pubs I use are safe and really well social distance.
I want to know why supermarkets aren’t on track and trace, have you been in one lately?
No staff wearing PPE, no social distance at all, people allowed in with no mask although Sainsbury’s are handing out. It’s a free for all people just stretch over and around you yet we have a 10pm lockdown...why?
Stopped using Tesco’s due to so many store shoppers with no regard to safety if anyone.
Asda is same as is Lidl only Aldi Romsey were great but now they have given up.
I tried home shopping but out of 40 items 11 missing.
Pubs are safe I got bolloxed for taking 2 steps without my mask on when leaving yet no one targets the real breeding ground and area being spread IMO |  |
| Lifes a marathon not a sprint |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 10:15 - Oct 9 with 753 views | Sadoldgit |
There was a bloke on last night (the programme after QT) talking sense. The virus spreads where people congregate. It doesn’t matter where. Stop people congregating and you reduce the spread. |  | | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:06 - Oct 9 with 733 views | ThermosNBlanket |
Hospital round here stopped taking temps when go in as proves nothing they said | |
| Lifes a marathon not a sprint |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:14 - Oct 9 with 730 views | Sadoldgit |
Which is precisely what makes the virus so dangerous. There are thousands of people wandering around thinking they are ok and they are oblivious to the fact that they are super spreaders. You only have to read the comments from The Sun readers to see why the virus is spreading again. Darwinism at its peak. | | | |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:36 - Oct 9 with 725 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:14 - Oct 9 by Sadoldgit |
Which is precisely what makes the virus so dangerous. There are thousands of people wandering around thinking they are ok and they are oblivious to the fact that they are super spreaders. You only have to read the comments from The Sun readers to see why the virus is spreading again. Darwinism at its peak. |
there are so few people in ICU. That is a fact.
we keep waiting for it to happen | |
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| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:34 - Oct 9 with 712 views | Sadoldgit |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 11:36 - Oct 9 by JaySaint |
there are so few people in ICU. That is a fact.
we keep waiting for it to happen |
More people are being hospitalised across the country and the death rate has already started to climb. That is why the government are looking at tighter measures from next week. | | | |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 20:04 - Oct 9 with 684 views | JaySaint |
| Football’s message to fans: “Together we will get you safely back into groun on 14:34 - Oct 9 by Sadoldgit |
More people are being hospitalised across the country and the death rate has already started to climb. That is why the government are looking at tighter measures from next week. |
The ONS claim that 1/3 of those in hospital with covid were not in hospital because of covid. They never knew they have it until getting tested at hospital.
That is not my opinion either.
I believe that unless we see huge spikes with this, we will see mass civil unrest. The redundancies are starting and just wait till it hits a company that grabs everyone's attention and labour shift their stance.
Do you really believe the country will just remain in a state of lockdown for the next 6-12 months? There will be nothing left if that is the case | |
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