| Share sale 11:34 - Jun 3 with 67453 views | fitzochris |
I understand the shares owned by Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst have been sold to a US-based concern.
Keep an eye on Companies House over the coming weeks. |  |
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| Share sale on 12:37 - Jun 5 with 2595 views | RAFCBLUE |
Their statement begins by saying they became shareholders in the past year.
This news might actually be much older than yesterday.
I can only imagine the questions that will be asked if the new purchasers were in place before the club held that fan’s forum.
To those worried about the club being saddled with debt, that's not possible unless the Board agree and that would need Kilpatrick, Bottomley and Kelly to be party to it. |  |
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| Share sale on 12:40 - Jun 5 with 2577 views | TalkingSutty |
| Share sale on 12:30 - Jun 5 by 442Dale |
We cannot change the past, only influence the future. The Trust and everyone is aware of that, and it’s particularly refreshing to see the regular updates so we are all know what’s going on.
Point taken on Fitzo’s part in it all, brilliant work and deserving of all the praise. He’ll probably acknowledge that organisations like the Trust, the club and other fans have a role to play now it’s out there too. |
I welcome the Q&A which the Trust have arranged with the interested parties, that's been organised very quickly. The fact that they contacted the relevant people and bypassed the Club is also refreshing, they are nobodies lap dog and this is how you want your Supporters Trust to react. So yes, credit where it's due over the last 24hrs. |  | | |
| Share sale on 12:42 - Jun 5 with 2556 views | TalkingSutty |
| Share sale on 12:34 - Jun 5 by BigDaveMyCock |
All we can do at the moment is wait and see what information is forthcoming.
The thing I’m interested (I’ll use that word ‘interested’ for the time being but it’s not far from concern) in knowing more about is that there is a massive emphasis on investment providing ‘returns’ for investors. Anybody will tell you that ‘returns’ are very rare in football. How many times have you heard good owners of football clubs repeat the mantra that if you want to make money then don’t buy a football club. Bad owners of football clubs often tell you that there’s opportunities aplenty if only you speculate to accumulate. I would like to know the brass tacks of this investment, what these returns are and the impact it will have on the club’s liabilities. |
Good post. | | | |
| Share sale on 12:48 - Jun 5 with 2511 views | mikehunt |
Sounds good. I always wondered if there was anyone out there with the balls to take a club like Rochdale on. Relatively easy to take on a Liverpool, City or a Newcastle but a Dale!!!? if you you could make them successfull that really would be an achievement.And inevitably a springboard to bigger and better things for the initial investors.
My only worry (with any of our board - not just the Yanks) is how the club can ring fence its only permanent asset: The ground. The second we hear that COA is being used as collateral for loans to finance all the things promised then we can kiss our arses (sorry asses) goodbye. |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Share sale on 12:50 - Jun 5 with 2500 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 12:37 - Jun 5 by RAFCBLUE |
Their statement begins by saying they became shareholders in the past year.
This news might actually be much older than yesterday.
I can only imagine the questions that will be asked if the new purchasers were in place before the club held that fan’s forum.
To those worried about the club being saddled with debt, that's not possible unless the Board agree and that would need Kilpatrick, Bottomley and Kelly to be party to it. |
Also, if the shareholding had changed before the EGM called to look at regulations regarding shares, then would that information have become apparent on the evening? Let’s not forget, this current news not withstanding, there was plenty of debate around those proposals anyway, to the extent the Trust had called their own EGM to take place before the club one.
Consider this statement from the club ahead of the EGM:
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2020/march/clubstatement-agmegm/ |  |
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| Share sale on 12:53 - Jun 5 with 2483 views | TipperaryDale |
For those people suggesting it would be a bad thing if players were chosen to play who weren't necessarily the manager's choice and might be for commercial reasons... we've been doing this for the past three or four seasons. Dan Adshead was played just before the transfer window to try to drum up a sale, Matheson was also played 'before his time' to garner interest - I'd suggest the playing of Baah this season as well was in the hope that he would have a brilliant game and start a hype train. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that in some respects we aren't already playing the Moneyball game.
Personally I'm remaining a skeptic (in a completely neutral sense) on this before we see more detail. Warm words about 'long-term future' and 'sustainability' will have to be backed up with answers to questions liken "What happens when you've had enough and want to sell, who safeguards us from vultures?", "What if we got relegated?", "What if your plan doesn't work and your analytics ideas don't actually have much use on the pitch?" etc etc. |  | | |
| Share sale on 12:54 - Jun 5 with 2477 views | James1980 |
I am cautiously optimistic. Can we really compare it to the situation involving The Milky Bar Kid 'rescuing' FFBFC? When SD1 came along weren't they on the brink of collapse? I am sure the Trust won't be selling their shares to our new Stateside Friends, like Fornever Bury sold out to Mr Day. |  |
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| Share sale on 13:00 - Jun 5 with 2443 views | Dickster |
| Share sale on 12:37 - Jun 5 by RAFCBLUE |
Their statement begins by saying they became shareholders in the past year.
This news might actually be much older than yesterday.
I can only imagine the questions that will be asked if the new purchasers were in place before the club held that fan’s forum.
To those worried about the club being saddled with debt, that's not possible unless the Board agree and that would need Kilpatrick, Bottomley and Kelly to be party to it. |
It’s my understanding (TM Fitzchris) that Dunphy et al sold their shares back in November. | | | |
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| Share sale on 13:14 - Jun 5 with 2386 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 12:54 - Jun 5 by James1980 |
I am cautiously optimistic. Can we really compare it to the situation involving The Milky Bar Kid 'rescuing' FFBFC? When SD1 came along weren't they on the brink of collapse? I am sure the Trust won't be selling their shares to our new Stateside Friends, like Fornever Bury sold out to Mr Day. |
Someone with greater knowledge will clarify, but if the unissued shares were issued and all taken by one buyer (see link above around this), then isn’t there a percentage threshold when other shareholders have to sell if the person/group holding that percentage want 100% controlling interest.
I may be totally wrong! | |
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| Share sale on 13:26 - Jun 5 with 2341 views | AtThePeake |
| Share sale on 12:53 - Jun 5 by TipperaryDale |
For those people suggesting it would be a bad thing if players were chosen to play who weren't necessarily the manager's choice and might be for commercial reasons... we've been doing this for the past three or four seasons. Dan Adshead was played just before the transfer window to try to drum up a sale, Matheson was also played 'before his time' to garner interest - I'd suggest the playing of Baah this season as well was in the hope that he would have a brilliant game and start a hype train. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that in some respects we aren't already playing the Moneyball game.
Personally I'm remaining a skeptic (in a completely neutral sense) on this before we see more detail. Warm words about 'long-term future' and 'sustainability' will have to be backed up with answers to questions liken "What happens when you've had enough and want to sell, who safeguards us from vultures?", "What if we got relegated?", "What if your plan doesn't work and your analytics ideas don't actually have much use on the pitch?" etc etc. |
Certainly the case with Adshead, slightly less so with Matheson in my opinion (he was genuinely the best option we had at right-back when McLaughlin was injured) and Baah (who was almost forced into the team due to the amount of injuries we had at the time).
I agree with your overall point though. The financial aspect of the Moneyball philosophy is to buy cheap, sell high and that's what pretty much every well-run lower league club has been doing for a while now. The analytical stats-driven aspect of scouting new players would be a slightly different approach though I believe. |  |
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| Share sale on 13:26 - Jun 5 with 2338 views | tony_roch975 |
| Share sale on 13:14 - Jun 5 by 442Dale |
Someone with greater knowledge will clarify, but if the unissued shares were issued and all taken by one buyer (see link above around this), then isn’t there a percentage threshold when other shareholders have to sell if the person/group holding that percentage want 100% controlling interest.
I may be totally wrong! |
But surely the un-issued shares can't be sold without shareholders' agreement (& without an EGM that can't have happened). Isn't that why the Americans had to buy ('transfer') existing shares - didn't fitzochris say he'd been told all articles of association were adhered to in this sale? Course, until the new Confirmation Statement is released we don't know if any other 'existing' shares have been transferred. | |
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| Share sale on 13:27 - Jun 5 with 2336 views | fitzochris |
| Share sale on 13:00 - Jun 5 by Dickster |
It’s my understanding (TM Fitzchris) that Dunphy et al sold their shares back in November. |
Sorry Dickster, I must have missed your post in November telling us this?
The deal actually concluded in October 2019 but there was an NDA in place for Chris Dunphy but not the current board.
Also, I believe (TM) a share issue can expire and the most recent one may well have done. | |
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| Share sale on 13:32 - Jun 5 with 2310 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 13:26 - Jun 5 by tony_roch975 |
But surely the un-issued shares can't be sold without shareholders' agreement (& without an EGM that can't have happened). Isn't that why the Americans had to buy ('transfer') existing shares - didn't fitzochris say he'd been told all articles of association were adhered to in this sale? Course, until the new Confirmation Statement is released we don't know if any other 'existing' shares have been transferred. |
No I know they can’t be issued, was replying to James1980’s post about organisations/other shareholders choosing to sell. In certain circumstances they may not be given the choice if, if correct, anyone with a certain percentage of shares is able to purchase the rest. Not exclusive to the Dale situation as the EGM never happened, so the shares issued are as they were (well, with some now held by different people).
Edit: could someone give the info on what the actual rules are around this, had a quick look but nothing concrete and I know there are others on here with more expertise!
[Post edited 5 Jun 2020 13:37]
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| Share sale on 13:37 - Jun 5 with 2280 views | James1980 |
| Share sale on 13:14 - Jun 5 by 442Dale |
Someone with greater knowledge will clarify, but if the unissued shares were issued and all taken by one buyer (see link above around this), then isn’t there a percentage threshold when other shareholders have to sell if the person/group holding that percentage want 100% controlling interest.
I may be totally wrong! |
That does sound familiar not sure of the percentage holding required to trigger a buyout. Is this the start of a takeover? | |
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| Share sale on 13:48 - Jun 5 with 2221 views | electricblue |
Controlling interest gives a shareholder or group of shareholders significant influence over the actions of a company. A party can achieve controlling interest as long as the ownership stake in a company is proportionately substantial relative to total voting stock. With the majority of large public companies, for example, a shareholder with much less than 50% of the outstanding shares may still have a lot of influence at the company. Single shareholders with as little as 5% to 10% ownership can push for seats on the board or enact changes at shareholder meetings by publicly lobbying for them, giving them control. |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Share sale on 13:50 - Jun 5 with 2213 views | 49thseason |
| Share sale on 13:14 - Jun 5 by 442Dale |
Someone with greater knowledge will clarify, but if the unissued shares were issued and all taken by one buyer (see link above around this), then isn’t there a percentage threshold when other shareholders have to sell if the person/group holding that percentage want 100% controlling interest.
I may be totally wrong! |
I think this may be true for stocks quoted on exchanges but maybe not the case for unquoted stocks unless there is a clause to that effect in the articles of incorporation.
Scroll down for UK :
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-518-5074?__lrTS=20171129050445680&t
Looks like 30% holding trips the procedure for a mandatory offer for the remainingn70% but as I say , it might only apply to quoted stocks. |  | | |
| Share sale on 13:54 - Jun 5 with 2201 views | judd |
| Share sale on 13:37 - Jun 5 by James1980 |
That does sound familiar not sure of the percentage holding required to trigger a buyout. Is this the start of a takeover? |
I think the percentage shareholding issue you are highlighting refers to public listed companies, not private limited companies.
I believe (TM Cher) that share transfers/sale are covered in the articles of association. Those lodged at Companies House are an amendment to the originals and are dated summat like 2010 to cover the last share issue. |  |
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| Share sale on 14:11 - Jun 5 with 2117 views | D_Alien |
| Share sale on 13:48 - Jun 5 by electricblue |
Controlling interest gives a shareholder or group of shareholders significant influence over the actions of a company. A party can achieve controlling interest as long as the ownership stake in a company is proportionately substantial relative to total voting stock. With the majority of large public companies, for example, a shareholder with much less than 50% of the outstanding shares may still have a lot of influence at the company. Single shareholders with as little as 5% to 10% ownership can push for seats on the board or enact changes at shareholder meetings by publicly lobbying for them, giving them control. |
Remarkably well-written |  |
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| Share sale on 14:12 - Jun 5 with 2110 views | fitzochris |
Reads like it was drafted by the club’s lawyer for sure. | |
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| Share sale on 14:14 - Jun 5 with 2096 views | 1907 |
Well that isn’t written with any sort of positivity. | | | |
| Share sale on 14:17 - Jun 5 with 2068 views | judd |
I'm very grateful that the club has gone to the trouble to put this statement out.
Sounds like our new investors are not very welcome. | |
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| Share sale on 14:29 - Jun 5 with 1992 views | fitzochris |
| Share sale on 14:17 - Jun 5 by judd |
I'm very grateful that the club has gone to the trouble to put this statement out.
Sounds like our new investors are not very welcome. |
Yes, this was the issue around the private sale element I referred to yesterday. The statement hasn’t elaborated on the situation, so it’s probably best not to on here. | |
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| Share sale on 14:30 - Jun 5 with 1990 views | 442Dale |
From the club statement today:
“ Whilst discussions were held — under the protection of a Non-Disclosure Agreement — those discussions stalled last year.
At this time no further discussions are planned.”
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From the statement by the new shareholders yesterday:
“ We have been in confidential discussions with the board for some time regarding a possible purchase of the club’s unissued shares. In the midst of these discussions we were privately offered shares owned by three of the club’s major backers, which we duly purchased as individuals.”
and:
“ We are still in contact with members of the board and maintain our interest in helping the club to succeed.” | |
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