| FA Cup attendance 1949 14:04 - Oct 17 with 5835 views | Sheffdale |
How were 24,231 squeezed in to Spotland v. Notts County in 1949? I went to matches in the promotion season 68/69 when there were 13000 versus Halifax and it seemed pretty full to me so how could another 11000 be accommodated? Was the ground configured differently then? Can Chalky ask his forbears? Any insights welcomed from the generation above me with knowledge. [Post edited 17 Oct 2018 14:42]
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 14:23 - Oct 17 with 4901 views | SuddenLad |
Big Kindo will tell you. He was there. The ground was very different then. My earliest memories are from the early 60's and it bears no resemblance to today. |  |
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 14:43 - Oct 17 with 4875 views | Sheffdale |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 14:23 - Oct 17 by SuddenLad |
Big Kindo will tell you. He was there. The ground was very different then. My earliest memories are from the early 60's and it bears no resemblance to today. |
Great - I've PM'd BK and hope he'll share his recollections. | | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 14:57 - Oct 17 with 4868 views | EllDale |
I don't think that the hill to the left of the main stand was there in 1949.
From what I can gather it was built from the earth excavated when the pitch was levelled in the 1950's.
I'm not sure when the roof was put on the Sandy but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't covered at the time in question.
A lot of the spectator accommodation wasn't terraced either but rather shale or earth. | | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 15:12 - Oct 17 with 4852 views | James1980 |
Well rationing was still happening so people were slimmer.
Seriously though that would be interesting to know | |
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 15:18 - Oct 17 with 4845 views | DaleiLama |
Found a picture of the turnstiles just before kick-off on-line - clearly the stewards were more hands on in those days and smarter unis.
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 06:30 - Oct 18 with 4630 views | Albert_Whitehurst |
Look at any old photos between the 1920s and 1970s on UK football grounds at capacity, always looked like 2 people then could fit into the space of 1 person now (and everyone wearing caps!).
New terrace steps seems a lot wider than those of old, maybe less crush barriers also?
Very few of the record attendances achieved in England were after the 70s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_home_attendances_of_English_footbal |  | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 09:37 - Oct 18 with 4592 views | chalky_ncfc |
I can explain this with two words,Tommy Lawton
Tommy Lawton was the top player in the country and a true megastar of his day and stunned the footballing world by moving to third division Notts in 1949,we had crowds of 50,000+ every week with 10,000 that regularly couldn't get in trying to see him,he was the biggest footballing attraction in the country at the time and the story's about those days are still being told by the older Notts fans to this day [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 9:39]
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 10:04 - Oct 18 with 4560 views | D_Alien |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 09:37 - Oct 18 by chalky_ncfc |
I can explain this with two words,Tommy Lawton
Tommy Lawton was the top player in the country and a true megastar of his day and stunned the footballing world by moving to third division Notts in 1949,we had crowds of 50,000+ every week with 10,000 that regularly couldn't get in trying to see him,he was the biggest footballing attraction in the country at the time and the story's about those days are still being told by the older Notts fans to this day [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 9:39]
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50,000 every week? 10,000 couldn't get in? That'd be 60,000 couldn't get in the weeks you were away then 
Seriously though, you're right about Lawton being the attraction, my old man was at the game; plus, the post-war era saw record crowds for a few years as people just enjoyed being free to take in the simple pleasures |  |
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 10:21 - Oct 18 with 4532 views | RooleyMoorBlue |
There were also three words that hadn`t been invented back then, health, safety and obesity. Our record attendance is one of the smaller ones too, so grounds such as Bolton(70,000), Oldham(47,671) and bury(40,000) seem even more ridiculous. My Dad was there v Notts Co. and said there was still room for more to fit in that day. |  | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 10:40 - Oct 18 with 4517 views | kiwidale |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 09:37 - Oct 18 by chalky_ncfc |
I can explain this with two words,Tommy Lawton
Tommy Lawton was the top player in the country and a true megastar of his day and stunned the footballing world by moving to third division Notts in 1949,we had crowds of 50,000+ every week with 10,000 that regularly couldn't get in trying to see him,he was the biggest footballing attraction in the country at the time and the story's about those days are still being told by the older Notts fans to this day [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 9:39]
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Were Munto involved in that transfer Chalky? | |
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 20:10 - Oct 18 with 4361 views | Sheffdale |
Thanks guys - the forum at its best. Informative, responsive and knowledgeable. I've also exchanged messages with BigKIndo who has excellent recall of those times. Write up in the match programme v Charlton where I muse on attendances from 1968/69 and crowds in general. And yes Tommy Lawton will get a mention Chalky - thanks for that. I can't actually find confirmation on line that Lawton played in the match. Anyone know? [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 20:26]
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 21:05 - Oct 18 with 4315 views | pioneer |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 20:10 - Oct 18 by Sheffdale |
Thanks guys - the forum at its best. Informative, responsive and knowledgeable. I've also exchanged messages with BigKIndo who has excellent recall of those times. Write up in the match programme v Charlton where I muse on attendances from 1968/69 and crowds in general. And yes Tommy Lawton will get a mention Chalky - thanks for that. I can't actually find confirmation on line that Lawton played in the match. Anyone know? [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 20:26]
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Yes he played...centre forward, where else!
Dale were second in Div 3 north at the time of the game while Notts Cheaty were leading Div 3 south.
The programme notes did not refer to Tommy by name, but mentioned the oppositions ‘star players’ Jackie Sewel was another big name in their line up. The notes also commented on the anticipated crowd being the largest home crowd in history and “hope it is not the last crowd of this size we shall see in the near future”.
The programme included potrait photos of the dale line up including our own ‘big lad’ up front, Jack Connor.
Notts county lost at home to Burnley in the third round. Tommy started his career at Rossendale. Notts cheaty paid a British transfer record $20k to sign him after he fell out with his boss at Chelsea. | | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 21:36 - Oct 18 with 4289 views | Cleedale |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 09:37 - Oct 18 by chalky_ncfc |
I can explain this with two words,Tommy Lawton
Tommy Lawton was the top player in the country and a true megastar of his day and stunned the footballing world by moving to third division Notts in 1949,we had crowds of 50,000+ every week with 10,000 that regularly couldn't get in trying to see him,he was the biggest footballing attraction in the country at the time and the story's about those days are still being told by the older Notts fans to this day [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 9:39]
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Interesting thread.
No doubt that the post-war years saw some pretty big attendances.
However chalky, might be worth looking at some hard facts, unless these are wrong. Regardless, 25-35,000 average gates between '48 and '52 appears to be the pinnacle; and yet just a tad over 11,000 in 1992 in the old Div.1.
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/notc.htm
Dale were living it up too back then with one season averaging over 8,500.
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/roch.htm | | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 21:37 - Oct 18 with 4287 views | chalky_ncfc |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 10:40 - Oct 18 by kiwidale |
Were Munto involved in that transfer Chalky? |
No they wasn't you cheeky sod  | |
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 21:50 - Oct 18 with 4265 views | chalky_ncfc |
Yeah those figures i can't disagree with really,I went to an ex Notts players forum among others who have me the figures from word of mouth rather than written facts,that's interesting thanks  | |
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 21:56 - Oct 18 with 4259 views | Cleedale |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 21:50 - Oct 18 by chalky_ncfc |
Yeah those figures i can't disagree with really,I went to an ex Notts players forum among others who have me the figures from word of mouth rather than written facts,that's interesting thanks |
Still impressive though - 'averaging' those amounts means some were below and others above that figure. To average +35,000 is going some...
Why were the gates not particularly impressive when in the old Div 1 - was it summats to do with ground regulations? | | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 22:07 - Oct 18 with 4244 views | Sheffdale |
What can I say chaps? Hats off to to the lot of you! | | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 22:52 - Oct 18 with 4198 views | R17ALE |
I wrote an article about this game years ago! Here it is with identities protected. And he still stands in the Sandy!
"Fan PR started watching Dale in 1941 when his Mum took him to war time games at Spotland. It was just sixpence to get in back then which is about 1p in today’s money.
P is one of very few survivors from that record attendance match versus Notts County and he still stands in the same spot on The Sandy Lane End to this day.
His favourite player from the 1940’s was Jack Connor who was an excellent old fashioned Number 9. P thinks Connor broke a number of scoring records whilst at Stockport County for whom he played prior to joining Rochdale.
The season before the Notts County game, the infamous slope on Rochdale’s pitch was ironed out when two farmers from Norden ventured up with their tractors and levelled the pitch. The earth removed was dumped in the corner between what is now the Main Stand and the TDS Stand forming the ‘Hill’ although its official title at the time was The Spion Kop.
The Hill remained at Spotland until 1997 when it was removed in the redevelopment of Spotland.
Back in 1949 P seems to recall that The Hill meant Spotland’s capacity stood at around 28,000 even though there were only around 600 seats. The Notts County game was predicted to test the larger Spotland although the match itself wasn’t all-ticket. He seems to recall you could buy tickets for the seats but terrace places were simply pay on the day!
The main attraction wasn’t the visit of big club Notts County but was their Number 9, Tommy Lawton. “He was the biggest name in football back then and had been the first £20,000 transfer. County were a big club, but Lawton then was bigger than Shearer was in England ten years ago.”
P recalls thinking that the ground was quite full but not uncomfortably so. “we could still change ends at half time and I could still get my Nicholson’s pie from the snack bar.”
Notts County won the game 2-1 when Tommy Lawton scored the winner. It was described in the press as a trademark bullet header but P has different memories. “I can recall that goal as though it was yesterday. It went in off his shoulder at the Sandy Lane End, but the press had to big it up as it was Tommy Lawton who had scored it and he only scored from his trade mark bullet headers. I learned then not to believe everything you read in the papers!”
Given that the crowd was around 19,000 up on the previous home match you can sense the draw of one player. Players like George Best could fill grounds and Tommy Lawton was one such player of his generation. Rochdale’s next gate was just over 7000!
P recalls, “there was a big match atmosphere about the whole day, from the moment I woke up anticipating the match (I was only 13 then) to getting to the ground, queuing to get in, and the sound of so many rattles. Cyril Brown scored for us. I thought he might as he used to play for Notts County, but try as they all did, we couldn’t beat them. But it is great to be able to say that I saw Tommy Lawton play at Spotland against The Dale." [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 22:54]
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 22:58 - Oct 18 with 4189 views | robbowood |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 20:10 - Oct 18 by Sheffdale |
Thanks guys - the forum at its best. Informative, responsive and knowledgeable. I've also exchanged messages with BigKIndo who has excellent recall of those times. Write up in the match programme v Charlton where I muse on attendances from 1968/69 and crowds in general. And yes Tommy Lawton will get a mention Chalky - thanks for that. I can't actually find confirmation on line that Lawton played in the match. Anyone know? [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 20:26]
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I have the official match programme (No. 0105). They must have printed thousands - it cost 2d. Eight pages but actually just one sheet of paper - but when folded measures about 8 and 1/2 inches x 5 and 1/2 inches. So quite clever and no staples needed
There are photos of each of the eleven Dale players with their name and position, followed by an Editoral which includes
"Never before in the history of local soccer football has such a big crowd collected for a match as there will be on this ground this afternoon and it will make a sight to be remembered"
"To Notts County, the oldest league club in the country, we offer a hearty welcome. We give them credit for being the drawing power with their "star" players who have put up the attendance and receipt receipt records and we hope the game is worthy of the event"
British Rail advert Rochdale to Manchester first-class 2s 3d and third class 1s 6d
They had a football excursion from Rochdale to Southport on 27 Dec which cost 5s 3d (I assume return). Departed 12.04 and returned at 4.50 (no added on time in those days fortunately!)
I have the following match details
Saturday 10 December 1949
FA Cup Round 2
Spotland, Rochdale
Rochdale’s highest attendance Att: 24,231
Rochdale 1 (Brown)
Notts County 2 (Lawton, Johnson)
Rochdale
1 Trevor Churchill
2 Bill Watson
3 Harry Hubbick
4 Eric Wood
5 Walter Birch
6 George McGeachie
7 Jackie Arthur
8 Jack Livesey
9 Jack Connor
10 Cyril Brown
11 Tom Dryburgh
Notts County
1 Roy Smith
2 Tommy Deans
3 Norman Rigby
4 Harry Chapman
5 Alec Simpson
6 Harry Adamson
7 Frank Broome
8 Jackie Sewell
9 Tommy Lawton
10 Billy Evans
11 Tom Johnston
Forgotten where I got the above match details from (years ago) but I hope correct
The match programme team line-up agrees Dale but for Notts County
5 Baxter (I have Alec Simpson played)
4 is spelt Chapmen (I have Chapman)
The full Third Division table (Northern Section) was also show (Doncaster top 28 pts from 18 games then Dale 24 points from 19 games) and the Lancashire Combination (Dale Reserves 5th below Nelson, Ashton Utd, Prescot Cables and Darwen. Teams below Dale Reserves included Fleetwood, Morecambe and Wigan Athletic)
The half-time scoreboard (not sure which were FA Cup games) in the programme included Wolves v Bolton Wdrs, Notts Forest v Stockport Cty, Bury v Leeds, Crewe v Oldham Utd, Fulham v Man Utd, Huddersfield v Liverpool and Man City v WBA | | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 02:03 - Oct 19 with 4100 views | kiwidale |
I started going with dad in 1956/7 I might have gone earlier but I cant remember, the gates depending on whether it was another local team where in the region of 4500 to 7000 come to think about it most games were local in div3 north. Dale played in blue and white. The players I remember were Jimmy Jones in goal, Vizard is another I remember, Eddie Wainwright was capt and Harry Cattrick was the manager. I could be wrong on all counts but that's how I remember it.
edit to add... Frank Lord
[Post edited 19 Oct 2018 3:43]
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 14:36 - Oct 19 with 3979 views | 49thseason |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 14:57 - Oct 17 by EllDale |
I don't think that the hill to the left of the main stand was there in 1949.
From what I can gather it was built from the earth excavated when the pitch was levelled in the 1950's.
I'm not sure when the roof was put on the Sandy but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't covered at the time in question.
A lot of the spectator accommodation wasn't terraced either but rather shale or earth. |
I can remember the Fighting Fund collecting money in the early sixties for a stand at the Sandy Lane end. Older fans might remember there used to be a tree in the middle of the road outside the ground on Sandy lane which apparently was inside the ground at one time (according to my Dad). I presume the ground was much bigger prior to the work on the intended ring road which ended on Ings lane but which was originally intended to run all the way around the town linking Kingsway, Queensway, Roch Valley Way, Ings Lane and then into the town centre and back out to Kingsway. |  | | |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 14:54 - Oct 19 with 3971 views | DaleiLama |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 22:52 - Oct 18 by R17ALE |
I wrote an article about this game years ago! Here it is with identities protected. And he still stands in the Sandy!
"Fan PR started watching Dale in 1941 when his Mum took him to war time games at Spotland. It was just sixpence to get in back then which is about 1p in today’s money.
P is one of very few survivors from that record attendance match versus Notts County and he still stands in the same spot on The Sandy Lane End to this day.
His favourite player from the 1940’s was Jack Connor who was an excellent old fashioned Number 9. P thinks Connor broke a number of scoring records whilst at Stockport County for whom he played prior to joining Rochdale.
The season before the Notts County game, the infamous slope on Rochdale’s pitch was ironed out when two farmers from Norden ventured up with their tractors and levelled the pitch. The earth removed was dumped in the corner between what is now the Main Stand and the TDS Stand forming the ‘Hill’ although its official title at the time was The Spion Kop.
The Hill remained at Spotland until 1997 when it was removed in the redevelopment of Spotland.
Back in 1949 P seems to recall that The Hill meant Spotland’s capacity stood at around 28,000 even though there were only around 600 seats. The Notts County game was predicted to test the larger Spotland although the match itself wasn’t all-ticket. He seems to recall you could buy tickets for the seats but terrace places were simply pay on the day!
The main attraction wasn’t the visit of big club Notts County but was their Number 9, Tommy Lawton. “He was the biggest name in football back then and had been the first £20,000 transfer. County were a big club, but Lawton then was bigger than Shearer was in England ten years ago.”
P recalls thinking that the ground was quite full but not uncomfortably so. “we could still change ends at half time and I could still get my Nicholson’s pie from the snack bar.”
Notts County won the game 2-1 when Tommy Lawton scored the winner. It was described in the press as a trademark bullet header but P has different memories. “I can recall that goal as though it was yesterday. It went in off his shoulder at the Sandy Lane End, but the press had to big it up as it was Tommy Lawton who had scored it and he only scored from his trade mark bullet headers. I learned then not to believe everything you read in the papers!”
Given that the crowd was around 19,000 up on the previous home match you can sense the draw of one player. Players like George Best could fill grounds and Tommy Lawton was one such player of his generation. Rochdale’s next gate was just over 7000!
P recalls, “there was a big match atmosphere about the whole day, from the moment I woke up anticipating the match (I was only 13 then) to getting to the ground, queuing to get in, and the sound of so many rattles. Cyril Brown scored for us. I thought he might as he used to play for Notts County, but try as they all did, we couldn’t beat them. But it is great to be able to say that I saw Tommy Lawton play at Spotland against The Dale." [Post edited 18 Oct 2018 22:54]
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Thought the "Hill out" brigade would have been all over this post after the reference to a Hill being removed. | |
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| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 20:15 - Oct 19 with 3902 views | pioneer |
| FA Cup attendance 1949 on 14:54 - Oct 19 by DaleiLama |
Thought the "Hill out" brigade would have been all over this post after the reference to a Hill being removed. |
And after its removal left with nothing but fresh eyre. | | | |
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