Forum | The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. by omarjack

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 12:11 - Aug 24 with 3698 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 11:56 - Aug 24 by Headmaster

If "getting our house in order" means leaving us with a depleted squad with one fit striker and a weak midfield then they've done a bang up job of it.

The owners have shown they're not willing to back the manager on his number 1 transfer target. Our financial situation is disgusting and a result of incredible ineptitude at boardroom level. Why would anyone trust the people who made those mistakes to put them right?

Getting our house in order means getting the wage bill down to sustainable Championship levels and not plunging the club further into debt.

Budgets are tight down here so if you can't find suitors for your expensive "stars" then the squad's going to have a few holes. Every team we've played so far would say they're 3 or 4 short of being a truly competitive team. Leeds played with three right backs because their only two centre backs were injured. That's our worst-case 'the owners deserve prison time' scenario.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 14:17 - Aug 24 with 3599 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 12:11 - Aug 24 by jasper_T

Most fans get this but can’t understand why other non player costs - £60m+ in 2017 - aren’t being slashed in the same way? If we’re running the club for sustainable life outside premier league we need to cut the non playing costs down to £10m or so. Won’t happen with the pigs noses still in the trough.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 18:01 - Aug 24 with 3517 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 14:17 - Aug 24 by awayjack
Most fans get this but can’t understand why other non player costs - £60m+ in 2017 - aren’t being slashed in the same way? If we’re running the club for sustainable life outside premier league we need to cut the non playing costs down to £10m or so. Won’t happen with the pigs noses still in the trough.

Where are you getting a £60m figure for non-player costs from?

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 19:19 - Aug 24 with 3462 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 18:01 - Aug 24 by jasper_T
Where are you getting a £60m figure for non-player costs from?

2017 accounts. Total wages £99m plus an additional £27m of other operating costs (excluding players bought, sold and amortisation etc). So total costs of £126m. Estimates of playing squad costs of £55m-£60m seem high based on squad and reported wages. So £70m or so in non-playing costs. Even if it’s a few million out, whether non playing costs are £50m, £60m or £70m, the key point is it’s a huge amount of our costs that are being ignored whilst we slash player costs to the bone.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 19:41 - Aug 24 with 3434 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 19:19 - Aug 24 by awayjack

You're assuming here that cost-cutting that isn't immediately visible to us (like a player sale would be) simply isn't happening.

The wage figure of £98.7m on those accounts includes 18 directors/admin, 75 commercial staff and 12 media positions. The other 264 personnel come under a football heading. We had some very high earners. We sacked two whole managerial teams. There's no way there's ~£40m of non-playing costs in there that we're still maintaining to date. The vast majority of that £98.7m was being thrown in the direction of a football pitch.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 21:46 - Aug 24 with 3366 views

Our player staff in the last 2 seasons is estimated to be around 55 m/year. Which leaves us with around 45 m/year on other wages like coaches,scouts,medics,admins and ground staff.

So why are we cutting down player wages to the bare minimum, while still having an enormous top 6 non-playing wages to pay at this level? Just look at Crystal Palace, they're still a PL club, they can afford to pay their players premium salaries that range from 80k to 140 k per week. While still having a smaller wage bill than ours when we were in the PL. Mostly because their board members DO NOT GET PAID WAGES, And their staff isn't bloated with useless employees that contribute nothing to the team. Most of the money goes to the senior squad and manager.

Now that we're a championship club, We need to start cutting wages where it matters, Meaning, The non-playing staff cannot reach as high as 45 m/year anymore. That's just throwing money down the drain. That's where the cuts should come from. Cutting some of the playing staff wages moderately is ok. But we also need to adapt to being a 2nd tier club now. And to reduce the non-playing wages+ other costs like infrastructure,travelling and insurance costs etc.

Our senior squad's wages were cut by 60% or so. That's not acceptable.

Poll:

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 00:37 - Aug 25 with 3289 views

joshdon10

To be honest I think potter coming in and one of the first things he said was . If players don’t want to be here then they can go. Which to me is refreshing he wants players who want to fight and do well for the club.

So that knocks off all the players on high wages with relegation clauses apart from bony.
( which if he was fit and banging them in he will be gone) because all the high earners believe they are better championship football. Just so happens he been injury struck and form dropped massively.

My only issue with how things have gone is the transfers. Why haven’t we been willing to invest. All our first team apart from one or two where fringe or squad players.

I agree with throwing money at players will not benefit our club. But if we are indentifing players which would suit us why ain’t we paying. ( woods for example). We pissed away a lot of money the past 2 seasons.

Hopefully we can mount a promotion push here and make it back to the premier. I believe the championship is the hardest league in the world. So why are we sitting and watching other teams strengthen while we are trying for Loan players.

Obviously there is a issue within the club that needs to be Address

1) what is the current financial issues.
2) what are the club aims going into this season.
3) what is the long term aims for the club.
4) who is identifying transfers the manager the board.

These are the questions i believe should be asked and answered.

Rant over now maybe should of stayed off the GIn tonight ha ha

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 06:51 - Aug 25 with 3228 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 19:41 - Aug 24 by jasper_T

So we have 265 footballers and coaches on or books. Right. Anyone from the Trust want to explain what these people do? Key point you seem to be ignoring is the slash in our costs is mostly around first team players. Now you’ve looked at accounts what do you think the non football costs are -£50m+? It would be negligent of them as Directors not to be looking at savings, but if they’ve started slashing these costs, we’d have heard something. No redundancies, no cuts in number of directors or their wages. You honestly believe if they’d cut directors wages the cowards wouldn’t have said something to take pressure off? Get real.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 11:04 - Aug 25 with 3162 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 06:51 - Aug 25 by awayjack

264 was the number of "football" employees paid during the accounts year, so it's an inflated figure due to turnover and one-off expenses - we don't have that many 'on the books' at any given time, people and jobs come and go. But the number of players, coaches, physios, analysts, scouts etc. involved in the football club from the first team right down to juniors levels is larger than one would immediately expect. The data file I'm working on for FM19 has 103 contracted personnel and it's hardly exhaustive, and only goes down to u18s level.

I'm not ignoring the fact that the majority of cuts are happening on the first team side. That's where the majority of our expenses are, it can't happen any other way. We're not going to save millions by sacking half the commercial staff, and someone needs to work the tills. We can't swap out two bad £40k/week shelf-stackers for one promising one on £15k/week. Sack all the scholars and you're saving £100k for the year?

There aren't £50m of non football costs on the last published accounts. Nowhere near. Huw's only on £633k, there aren't 80 of him lurking the halls.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 21:59 - Aug 26 with 3044 views

Kerouac

...tick-tock, tick-tock

The story so far...

Another summer. another manager of ours dicked.

My verdict?
We are up shiit creek and need Potter to perform miracles with the youngsters he has at his disposal.
Hope we can land some loanees worth having.

New Manager

Graham Potter (I reckon he's perfect...needs time, 2/3 seasons, and backing - doesn't appear to have been backed so far.
Leaving him with 1 senior Centre-half and failing to sign the 1 player he really wanted...Ryan Woods...on deadline day?
What the f*cking f*ck!?!?)

Players we may still move on, either to the continent, or on loan, or in January...

Wilfried Bony - £F*ck knows
(AEK Athens or Besiktas, allegedly) ?

Kyle Naughton - ? (Celtic)

Luciano Narsingh - £? (Turkey? AEK Athens?)

Jay Fulton - £450k !?!? (Reading)

Wayne Routledge - LOAN (QPR)

Nathan Dyer - LOAN (Reading? Rangers?)

Jefferson Montero - LOAN (Really?!?)

Final Squad on deadline day close (we may add/lose more on loan or on frees)

Goalkeepers

1) Kristoffer Nordfeldt - Senior Player
2) Erwin Mulder - Senior Player (seems to have proved his worth following an injury to Nordfeldt)

Right-back
3) Kyle Naughton (?) - Senior Player
4) Connor Roberts

Left-back
5) Martin Olsson - Senior Player
6) Declan John - Senior Player

Centre-back
7) Mike Van der Hoorn - Senior Player
8) Cameron Carter-Vickers
9) Joe Rodon
10) Cian Harries

Defensive Midfield
11) Jay Fulton (?)
12) Matt Grimes (Utility)

Box to box Midfielder
13) Leroy Fer - Senior Player
14) Tom Carroll - Senior Player

Playmaker
15) Bersant Celina - Senior Player
16) Yann Dhanda

Right-wing
17) Joel Asoro
18) Nathan Dyer (?) - Senior Player
19) Luciano Narsingh (?) - Senior Player

Left-wing
20) Barrie McKay - Senior Player
21) Jefferson Montero (?) - Senior Player
22) Wayne Routledge (?) - Senior Player

Striker
23) Wilfried Bony ? (Target man) - Senior Player
24) Oliver McBurnie (Poacher)

Wildcards
25) Adnan Maric (Defensive Midfielder)
26) Daniel James (Winger)
27) George Byers (Attacking Midfield)
28) Steven Benda (3rd choice Keeper)
29) Courtney Baker-Richardson (Striker)

Players I think we need

1) Centre-half
Someone experienced. A leader. A calm head. A captain. (This position now is URGENTLY required.

As you know, I wanted us to sign 2 centre-halves by the end of the transfer window.

Linked players in this position:
Scott McKenna
Danny Amartey (Loan)

2) Defensive Midfielder
Urgently needed, players linked include;
Danny Amartey (Loan)

I would like Ethan Ampadu on loan.

3) Striker
Bony is injured and will most likely be loaned out. McBurnie needs competition for the shirt.
Players linked (& available);
?????????????

Players we are rumoured to be signing (on a free or on loan);

1) Left-winger

Jordan Jones from Kilmarnock (Loan to buy)

2) Centre - Midfielder (Box-to-box)

Andy King (on loan)

3) Striker

Dani Gómez (on loan) from Real Madrid's youth team.

Players we have actually signed = £6.3m - £8.3m
+ 5 x senior player wages
&
2 x U23 wages

1) Jordi Govea Merlin (U23?)
2) Yann Dhanda (U23?)
3) Joel Asoro - £2m
4) Bersant Celina - £3 - £4m
5) Barrie McKay - £500k
6) Declan John - £400k - £800k
7) Cameron Carter-Vickers - LOAN

Players we have actually sold/released/Loaned = £48m - £53m
+ 13 x senior player wages
+ 2 x U23 wages

1) Ki Seung-Yeung - £0 (Newcastle Utd.)
2) Angel Rangel - £0
3) Leon Britton - £0
4) Roque Mesa - £7m (Sevilla)
5) Lukazs Fabianski - £7m (West Ham)
6) Adam King - LOANED (to Peterborough)
7) Kyle Bartley - £4m (Could be £6m if West Brom get promoted)
8) Kenji Gorre - £? (to Nacional)
9) Borja Baston - LOANED (to Alaves)
10) Andre Ayew - LOANED (to Fenerbache)
11) Alfie Mawson - £15 - 20m (to Fulham)
12) Jordan Ayew - LOANED - £2M (to Crystal Palace)
13) Sam Clucas - £6m (to Stoke City)
14) Federico Fernandez - £6m (to Newcastle Utd)
15) Jordi Amat - £1m (to Rayo Vallecano)

AGE WATCH

Goalkeepers (Average Age = 25.7)
1) Kristoffer Nordfeldt - 29yrs old
2) Erwin Mulder - 29
3) Steven Benda - 19

Defenders (Average Age = 23.75)
4) Kyle Naughton - 29
5) Connor Roberts - 22
6) Martin Olsson - 30
7) Declan John - 23
8) Mike Van der Hoorn - 25
9) Cian Harries - 21
10) Joe Rodon - 20
11) Cameron Carter-Vickers - 20

Midfield (Average Age = 23.1)
12) Jay Fulton - 24
13) Leroy Fer - 28
14) Tom Carroll - 26
15) Bersant Celina - 21
16) Yann Dhanda - 19
17) Matt Grimes - 22
18) George Byers - 22

Wingers (Average Age = 25.7)
19) Joel Asoro - 19
20) Nathan Dyer - 30
21) Barrie McKay - 23
22) Jefferson Montero - 28
23) Luciano Narsingh - 27
24) Wayne Routledge - 33
25) Daniel James - 20

Strikers (Average Age = 25.5)
26) Wilfried Bony - 29
27) Oliver McBurnie - 22

SQUAD AVERAGE AGE = 24.44

...we closed the transfer window on August 9th with a squad of 22
...only 15 can be considered senior pros...in the sense that they have played full seasons of professional football, I'm not talking about age or how long we have kept them around
...of those 15, 5 are rumoured to be possibly leaving
...we await our promised Loanees, God help us.

[Post edited 26 Aug 2018 22:15]

	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
Poll:	Which manager should replace Russell Martin (2) ?

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 00:37 - Aug 27 with 2953 views

Thank you Kerouac for your well-analysed input, You never disappoint.

But I'm truly starting to lose interest. CCV was an ok loan I guess, If Pochettino thought he's worth getting a new contract, then he must be at least decent for championship level.

As for the others we're linked to..That Kilmanrock winger who we assume will replace Narsingh, Dyer and Routledge..I don't know anything about him but maybe we should integrate Daniel James into the senior squad instead. We don't need more deadwood.

Dani Gomez, Well talk about uninspiring, A player who can't even hack it in Spain's 2nd tier. Too lightweight for a striker too (although some lightweight strikers can be very successful at times)

As for CMF, Still no developments.

As Kerouac stated above me, God help us all.

Meanwhile, we're continuously consistent at getting rid of players..With Narsingh who's reportedly joining AEK for 2 m, Which I think is an ok deal tbf, I never really thought much of him, although it'd have been nice if we managed to get a bit more money. But who cares really, It's not like it'll be reinvested in the squad.

As for getting rid of Dyer and Routledge, Good news of course, still, those 2-3 m in wages saved won't go either here or there.

[Post edited 27 Aug 2018 0:42]

Poll:

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 05:02 - Aug 27 with 2904 views

Swan91

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 00:37 - Aug 27 by omarjack

[Post edited 27 Aug 2018 0:42]

Well I am sure the Kilmarnock Winger will come if we get rid of Narsingh and dyer.. also routledge might be going to QPR..

Mackay, Asoro, Montero, James and the Kilmarnock guy. I think that is a decent amount of players for those positions. Actually my ideal situation would be dyer and routledge out on loan with narsingh staying.. I think he could be great in this league.

Dani Gomes would be a good addition if we keep Bony. 2 experienced strikers who can do well in the championship and Gomez as I am guessing GP and his team feel is an exciting prospect.

I have full trust and confidence in GP and his team with transfers so far as all of them have been great this season.. so if they feel he is worth a loan (hopefully with an option to buy) then I will back them.

I also agree we should get a cm.. with maybe grimes going out on loan more... we have a spare lb now so he doesn't need to cover there and would be good to get a stronger cm who can work in the system.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 14:11 - Aug 27 with 2823 views

What Kilmarnock guy are you on about? The fella that was linked to us by mistake in some rag two months ago, and no ones heard a peep about since?

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 22:48 - Aug 27 with 2706 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 11:04 - Aug 25 by jasper_T

You’re good at avoiding questions.

So total costs in the 2017 accounts are £126m - wages £99m / operating costs £27m. Agree?

If as you assert non-playing costs are not close to £50m, are you seriously suggesting player costs are almost £80m?

I’ll try to keep it simple:
- Our reported wages in 2017 of wages of £99m, players cost say £60m so £39m in other wages.
- Add operating costs of £27m that are not players wages equates to £66m in non playing costs.

If non-player costs are nowhere near £50m how do you explain the £127m of costs for the year?

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 23:30 - Aug 27 with 2671 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 22:48 - Aug 27 by awayjack

Separating out playing and non-playing staff seems disingenuous when analysing that accounts year as we paid off multi-year contracts of two management teams during that period (Guidolin and his three amigos, Bradley and Paul Williams). Are those costs "non-playing" by your definition? They're obviously not costs still being incurred by the club (and this whole discussion is based on where the cost-cutting is happening, isn't it?)

The first team wages (players and coaches) would have made up the vast majority of the £99m figure. I definitely don't think we spent £39m outside that area. £60m might be a conservative estimate for the players basic wage alone.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 09:58 - Aug 28 with 2580 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 23:30 - Aug 27 by jasper_T

Yup not clear where comp payments are costed but even if these are £5m muted by someone claiming to be IKN, it doesn’t get close to explaining £99m if wages and £27m of other costs.

Others have done estimates on player by player level of £55m for
senior squad and coaches, plus another £5m for U23 / Academy.

Our 2017 costs of £127m also seem way out of sinc with similar sized PL clubs. £45m more than Burnley with a similar (well better) squad and more than big spending clubs like Everton, Stoke and West Ham.

I hope the Trust are all over this.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 10:52 - Aug 28 with 2543 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 09:58 - Aug 28 by awayjack

My fag packet maths for the basic wage of the current playing squad come in at £30m (not incl. contributions to loan players out, after relegation clauses activated). So £55m for players and coaches that season seems unrealistic to me.

Burnley enforce have a strict wage cap and are only in their third consecutive season in the PL.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 14:05 - Aug 28 with 2450 views

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 10:52 - Aug 28 by jasper_T
My fag packet maths for the basic wage of the current playing squad come in at £30m (not incl. contributions to loan players out, after relegation clauses activated). So £55m for players and coaches that season seems unrealistic to me. Burnley enforce have a strict wage cap and are only in their third consecutive season in the PL.

Your estimate of current cost rate of £30m seems reasonable. Also agree we’ve cut more than £25m off player costs, maybe closer to £35m. Still if playing wages in 2017 are nearer £65m, it would leave £24m of wages and £26m of other expenses in 2017, so £50m or so of non playing costs. Key point is we’re slashing player costs but little news about other costs - like Board, Consultants and other expenses being reduced in the same way. Something doesn’t stack up not with our costs in 2017.

Re Burnley logic, we were told we also had tight wage controls in place - obviously not tight enough. I still don’t see why our costs are £45m more than Burnley because we had a few more years in PL. They had a very good squad, many bought whilst in PL so why would they attract higher quality players at lower wages? This also doesn’t explain why our costs were on par with Spurs and higher than likes of Stoke and West Ham. Anyway I hope at some point someone from the Trust can offer some explanation before the 2018 accounts are published next year.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 16:02 - Aug 28 with 2381 views

dobjack2

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 14:05 - Aug 28 by awayjack

Did we start a wages boom with our existing players when we signed Gomis on a “free”?

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 17:46 - Aug 28 with 2298 views

Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 16:02 - Aug 28 by dobjack2
Did we start a wages boom with our existing players when we signed Gomis on a “free”?

Yes - suggestions we paid a large ‘free transfer’ fee above Gomis basic wages. Not sure how much of is in costs versus player amortisation, also complicated as we loaned him out!
Risk trying to work out costs it’s not clear where costs are charged:
- Agents fees - PL reported as £7m or so.
- Loan fees - Sánches, Tammy etc.. expect most to be 2018 accounts.
- Bonuses - Players had large bonuses for our 2016/17 league position.
- Compensation. Various managers and their teams - Monk, Bradley etc..

What’s frustrating is we ramped up Board and Consulting costs post Yank deal. Bottom line is we were run very badly with wages on par with Spurs, higher than clubs with larger squads like Stoke and West Ham and obviously eclipse the costs of the very well run Burnley.

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 10:05 - Aug 30 with 2163 views

magicdaps10

Jerry Mbakogu(sp) the latest to be linked.

Free agent Striker.

Poll:

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 22:17 - Aug 30 with 2062 views

Loan window will be closing at 5 pm tomorrow.

Same goes for windows in other big leagues, including Turkey, So if Bony is leaving, it has to be tomorrow (although I'm not sure if they'll have until midnight)

Same goes for Dyer, Narsingh and Routledge obviously.

I don't want to beat a dead horse and preach to the choir. But FFS..we're not getting a new midfielder which means we're really screwed this season..again. What a shame because we do have some quality. And a lovely manager.

As for a back up striker..it's not as urgent. But it'd be nice to try to improve the depth no?

Anyway, there is still time..Although, the last time we said that was few weeks back when the permanent signing window closed..We brought a terrible back up left back and sold 4-5 senior players on that day..So..I'm emotionally preparing for another disaster.

[Post edited 30 Aug 2018 22:18]

Poll:

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 23:28 - Aug 30 with 2004 views

Kerouac

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 10:05 - Aug 30 by magicdaps10
Jerry Mbakogu(sp) the latest to be linked. Free agent Striker.

Interesting one, was a bit of a favourite with the fans at Carpi and Leeds Utd nearly agreed a transfer fee for him before his contract ran out and they had been interested for a while...did it fall through because Mbakogu suffered a potential career ending injury in February?
Strange that he hasn't been picked up on a free yet.

	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
Poll:	Which manager should replace Russell Martin (2) ?

The Realistic 2018/2019 Championship transfer thread. on 12:32 - Aug 31 with 1913 views

4 hours left in the window (although deals could still be finalised few hours after if the paperwork is submitted on time)..Since we're not linked with anyone, it's looking awful.

Mulumbu just signed officially with Celtic, so that's over now.

Dani Gomez? Who knows, probably it depended on Bony leaving, but it's also not looking very likely.

Pedro Chirivella is set to stay at Liverpool. Which is probably something neither parties want. Surely he's not the best prospect out there..nor the strongest midfielder but when all else fails..

Dyer, Narsingh, Routledge..who knows..I think our deals were reliant on offloading them and Bony..Which resulted into another disastrous deadline day.

Poll: