| Those of you who like blaming the Government 02:13 - Apr 17 with 24932 views | DJack |
This is a very deserving article for your (our) ire.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43784482
21st century Britain. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 20:41 - Apr 18 with 2822 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 19:16 - Apr 18 by burty |
fack the tories the say everthing is fine, but the reality is people going to foodbanks, benefit sanctions welfare reforms cuts to legal aid stores closing everywhere and unemployment at all time low load of bollox. |
Things must be bad in Wales and the Valleys. Could the useless, Labour run, WA have anything to do with that? |  |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 20:55 - Apr 18 with 2798 views | westwalesed |
Just going to chip in here, I vote Conservative.
Some things have been great - there is no doubt that the economy is steady, which considering world events over the last ten years is nothing short of a miracle. As has already been mentioned, employment is at an all time high. To say that not working is as bad as working misses the point - yes, you might be "as well off" on benefits but in my view, what sort of a life is that. And many people who start on these low paid jobs that some people are apparently so disparaging about are able to go onto better things with the experience they gain from it. All of the unemployed, highly vulnerable, mentally ill people I work with every day all say the same thing - they want "normality" which to them means getting up, going out and working in a factory or on a farm or whatever. Just having a purpose.....
On the flip side, the benefits reforms have been shambolic (although well intentioned). To use my area again, I do countless PIP Tribunal appeals with clients and they are almost always won. The system is broken, but on the other hand, I don't see how you can't have a system which requires you to "prove" that you are unable to work. We all know that people fiddle the system and that is not fair either.
On food banks, they've always existed and did so under Labour.
On deprivation in Wales in general, we have had a Welsh Labour Government in Wales since 1999. Not helped much has it? | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 20:57 - Apr 18 with 2798 views | DJack |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 20:41 - Apr 18 by Highjack |
Those figures for Greece, Italy and Spain are absolutely shocking. Then you have the youth unemployment stats across Southern Europe that are even worse. Entire generations with no hope. Of course it’s good things are getting slightly better but it should be so so much better. |
I agree with you there.
I joined the thread as the fallacious argument that the low unemployment shows that the Tories had done well when they haven't.
We need centrist governments making policies for the benefit of nations and not corporations as the wealth does not trickle down. I think the idea of tax on turnover is a decent one (simplistic and it will cause issues) and we need to stop the excessive lobbying by the megacorps as they are distorting markets when a law is passed upon the recommendations/request of the lobbyists. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 22:38 - Apr 18 with 2768 views | Ebo |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 20:55 - Apr 18 by westwalesed |
Just going to chip in here, I vote Conservative.
Some things have been great - there is no doubt that the economy is steady, which considering world events over the last ten years is nothing short of a miracle. As has already been mentioned, employment is at an all time high. To say that not working is as bad as working misses the point - yes, you might be "as well off" on benefits but in my view, what sort of a life is that. And many people who start on these low paid jobs that some people are apparently so disparaging about are able to go onto better things with the experience they gain from it. All of the unemployed, highly vulnerable, mentally ill people I work with every day all say the same thing - they want "normality" which to them means getting up, going out and working in a factory or on a farm or whatever. Just having a purpose.....
On the flip side, the benefits reforms have been shambolic (although well intentioned). To use my area again, I do countless PIP Tribunal appeals with clients and they are almost always won. The system is broken, but on the other hand, I don't see how you can't have a system which requires you to "prove" that you are unable to work. We all know that people fiddle the system and that is not fair either.
On food banks, they've always existed and did so under Labour.
On deprivation in Wales in general, we have had a Welsh Labour Government in Wales since 1999. Not helped much has it? |
Food bank usage has alarmingly increased under the Tories. Why is that?
Also by next match 6billiom will have been cut for social care. 6 billion!!! Yet they’ve no problem finding the money when it comes to shooting off missiles and launching air sotrties in the Middle East. |  |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 23:26 - Apr 18 with 2749 views | LeonWasGod |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 20:55 - Apr 18 by westwalesed |
Just going to chip in here, I vote Conservative.
Some things have been great - there is no doubt that the economy is steady, which considering world events over the last ten years is nothing short of a miracle. As has already been mentioned, employment is at an all time high. To say that not working is as bad as working misses the point - yes, you might be "as well off" on benefits but in my view, what sort of a life is that. And many people who start on these low paid jobs that some people are apparently so disparaging about are able to go onto better things with the experience they gain from it. All of the unemployed, highly vulnerable, mentally ill people I work with every day all say the same thing - they want "normality" which to them means getting up, going out and working in a factory or on a farm or whatever. Just having a purpose.....
On the flip side, the benefits reforms have been shambolic (although well intentioned). To use my area again, I do countless PIP Tribunal appeals with clients and they are almost always won. The system is broken, but on the other hand, I don't see how you can't have a system which requires you to "prove" that you are unable to work. We all know that people fiddle the system and that is not fair either.
On food banks, they've always existed and did so under Labour.
On deprivation in Wales in general, we have had a Welsh Labour Government in Wales since 1999. Not helped much has it? |
Everyone comes out of recessions, but Osbourne's approach, compounded by Cameron's decisions, seems to have left us lagging behind other developed nation's. The IMF has just downgraded our prospects for next year too (we're the only nation downgraded). So it's not a miracle to be doing worse than our peers. Quite the opposite.
Employment figures are good news of course. But we're also lagging behind other EU countries on real wage growth. Have been for at least 2/3 yes now. I believe real wages are slightly lower than start of the financial crisis 10 yrs ago.
Lowest rate of spending growth on the NHS ever over the first 5 yrs of this Tory Govt. They'll readdress that slightly by 2020, but it's almost impossible to not improve the situation.
Homelessness deaths doubled in last, what 4 years is it?
Number of rough sleepers has risen year on year since 2010, up an estimated 169% in total (England figures), but many more believed to be not accounted for.
Council funding slashed, impacting basic services, school funding cut, libraries closing, etc., etc.
Shambolic Home Office introducing ridiculous amount of beauracracy and now the latest public embarrassment. Ballsed up prison reforms.
Nothing "great" in any of that. They're doing an awful job, and that's just the headlines. |  | | |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 00:31 - Apr 19 with 2720 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 23:26 - Apr 18 by LeonWasGod |
Everyone comes out of recessions, but Osbourne's approach, compounded by Cameron's decisions, seems to have left us lagging behind other developed nation's. The IMF has just downgraded our prospects for next year too (we're the only nation downgraded). So it's not a miracle to be doing worse than our peers. Quite the opposite.
Employment figures are good news of course. But we're also lagging behind other EU countries on real wage growth. Have been for at least 2/3 yes now. I believe real wages are slightly lower than start of the financial crisis 10 yrs ago.
Lowest rate of spending growth on the NHS ever over the first 5 yrs of this Tory Govt. They'll readdress that slightly by 2020, but it's almost impossible to not improve the situation.
Homelessness deaths doubled in last, what 4 years is it?
Number of rough sleepers has risen year on year since 2010, up an estimated 169% in total (England figures), but many more believed to be not accounted for.
Council funding slashed, impacting basic services, school funding cut, libraries closing, etc., etc.
Shambolic Home Office introducing ridiculous amount of beauracracy and now the latest public embarrassment. Ballsed up prison reforms.
Nothing "great" in any of that. They're doing an awful job, and that's just the headlines. |
Isn't it "great " how the conservative government harasses elderly West Indians for proof of their citizenship when they've already tossed the only sources of collaborating evidence onto the fire.
"Try and get indefinite leave to remain now (now we've destroyed most of the evidence of your existence here) !" |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 09:34 - Apr 19 with 2675 views | westwalesed |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 00:31 - Apr 19 by Brynmill_Jack |
Isn't it "great " how the conservative government harasses elderly West Indians for proof of their citizenship when they've already tossed the only sources of collaborating evidence onto the fire.
"Try and get indefinite leave to remain now (now we've destroyed most of the evidence of your existence here) !" |
What are you implying here? | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 09:38 - Apr 19 with 2672 views | westwalesed |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 22:38 - Apr 18 by Ebo |
Food bank usage has alarmingly increased under the Tories. Why is that?
Also by next match 6billiom will have been cut for social care. 6 billion!!! Yet they’ve no problem finding the money when it comes to shooting off missiles and launching air sotrties in the Middle East. |
Because we have just had the biggest stagnation in the Global economy since the 1930s........actually, to tread water and avoid a double dip recession is nothing short of miraculous. I'm not saying that its a good thing Food Banks exist, there are clearly problems.
I agree with you that money should be diverted from Foreign adventures to front line services. For that matter, the International Aid Budget should be cut too. | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 09:49 - Apr 19 with 2667 views | westwalesed |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 23:26 - Apr 18 by LeonWasGod |
Everyone comes out of recessions, but Osbourne's approach, compounded by Cameron's decisions, seems to have left us lagging behind other developed nation's. The IMF has just downgraded our prospects for next year too (we're the only nation downgraded). So it's not a miracle to be doing worse than our peers. Quite the opposite.
Employment figures are good news of course. But we're also lagging behind other EU countries on real wage growth. Have been for at least 2/3 yes now. I believe real wages are slightly lower than start of the financial crisis 10 yrs ago.
Lowest rate of spending growth on the NHS ever over the first 5 yrs of this Tory Govt. They'll readdress that slightly by 2020, but it's almost impossible to not improve the situation.
Homelessness deaths doubled in last, what 4 years is it?
Number of rough sleepers has risen year on year since 2010, up an estimated 169% in total (England figures), but many more believed to be not accounted for.
Council funding slashed, impacting basic services, school funding cut, libraries closing, etc., etc.
Shambolic Home Office introducing ridiculous amount of beauracracy and now the latest public embarrassment. Ballsed up prison reforms.
Nothing "great" in any of that. They're doing an awful job, and that's just the headlines. |
I think it completely depends how you choose to see it. I'll try to answer your individual points.
Yes, there are huge problems with depravation but all of the things you have mentioned existed long before the Conservative Government did. Yes, many of them may have got worse (eg homelessness) but my view is that this would have likely been the case under a Government of any colour, particularly one led by Ed Miliband, whose policies would have been broadly similar to Cameron's. Corbyn's policies would probably work wonders in the short term - but then we all know how far left Socialism ends up, just look around the world where it has been tried.
Real wages have struggled, but now they are outstripping inflation for the first time in years.
NHS in Wales is under Labour.
In terms of slashing public spending, nobody can say that the Public didn't know this. The policy of Austerity is well known. Again, yes its hard, and yes funding priorities could be looked at, but the principle of living within our means is something I adhere to. | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 10:01 - Apr 19 with 2660 views | bluey_the_blue |
Not really, no. In practice has zero impact. | | | |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 10:39 - Apr 19 with 2653 views | LeonWasGod |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 09:49 - Apr 19 by westwalesed |
I think it completely depends how you choose to see it. I'll try to answer your individual points.
Yes, there are huge problems with depravation but all of the things you have mentioned existed long before the Conservative Government did. Yes, many of them may have got worse (eg homelessness) but my view is that this would have likely been the case under a Government of any colour, particularly one led by Ed Miliband, whose policies would have been broadly similar to Cameron's. Corbyn's policies would probably work wonders in the short term - but then we all know how far left Socialism ends up, just look around the world where it has been tried.
Real wages have struggled, but now they are outstripping inflation for the first time in years.
NHS in Wales is under Labour.
In terms of slashing public spending, nobody can say that the Public didn't know this. The policy of Austerity is well known. Again, yes its hard, and yes funding priorities could be looked at, but the principle of living within our means is something I adhere to. |
Things *may* have been worse under another government, but it's a moot point as they got worse under the current one.
Wages may now be ahead of inflation, but my point was that our economic performance has dropped relative to other leading G7 countries. And it's predicted to fall behind further (but we don't know whether those predictions will come true, granted).
NHS Wales is performing poorly, agreed. A case has been made that this is because the Barnett Formula isn't needs assessed. In England and Scotland factors like ageing are taken into account when money is allocated for the NHS. It isn't via the Barnett formula; if it was Wales would be receive a sizeable increase in funding from Westminster. Whether that would be managed effectively and actually lead to improvements is up for debate of course. Westminster does have an influence.
Austerity was well-known. The opposition to it is also well known, and it's little coincidence that countries that financially stimulated areas of their economy rather than starve them have shown higher growth. The US has done particularly well there, with large stimulus packages seeing a payback of the public investment and then some. I've no idea whether we could have duplicated that though; I'm no macro-economist.
Maybe things could have been worse, or would have been worse under a different government. But when you look around and compare us in the context of the global recovery things don't look as rosy as some people make out. And there's definitely a lack of a moral compass, as this Windrush thing has show (plenty of other examples too). | | | |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 11:32 - Apr 19 with 2639 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 00:31 - Apr 19 by Brynmill_Jack |
Isn't it "great " how the conservative government harasses elderly West Indians for proof of their citizenship when they've already tossed the only sources of collaborating evidence onto the fire.
"Try and get indefinite leave to remain now (now we've destroyed most of the evidence of your existence here) !" |
The records were destroyed in 2009 by Labour at the same time the Labour deficit reached an all time high of £160 BILLION. At least get your facts correct. | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 11:45 - Apr 19 with 2629 views | Ebo |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 11:32 - Apr 19 by felixstowe_jack |
The records were destroyed in 2009 by Labour at the same time the Labour deficit reached an all time high of £160 BILLION. At least get your facts correct. |
December 2009, the UK Border Authority then independent from the government, discussed the disposing of landing cards. It was not until October 2010 that a decision to destroy them was taken. Theresa May was Home Secretary by this time. She later made Immigration reforms (which Jeremy Corbyn voted against). Requiring the need for such documentary evidence. Fully aware of what has been done and how this would affect the Windrush generation.
The current situation is utterly of her doing.
Your 'facts' are a load of bollocks FJ. As was pointed out in PMQT's yesterday. She was yet again called out and humiliated.
The results of her actions were documented on CH4.
Dexter Bristol:
He was asked to prove he was British - he could not.
He lost his job
He lost his home
He could not claim benefits
He was found dead in March.
He had lived in the UK since 1968
How can she sleep at night? Just fu cking how??? | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 13:09 - Apr 19 with 2607 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 11:32 - Apr 19 by felixstowe_jack |
The records were destroyed in 2009 by Labour at the same time the Labour deficit reached an all time high of £160 BILLION. At least get your facts correct. |
Do you live in the uk or a different time zone .
She blatantly lied in parliament yesterday to Save answering thebquestions |  |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 13:16 - Apr 19 with 2602 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 11:45 - Apr 19 by Ebo |
December 2009, the UK Border Authority then independent from the government, discussed the disposing of landing cards. It was not until October 2010 that a decision to destroy them was taken. Theresa May was Home Secretary by this time. She later made Immigration reforms (which Jeremy Corbyn voted against). Requiring the need for such documentary evidence. Fully aware of what has been done and how this would affect the Windrush generation.
The current situation is utterly of her doing.
Your 'facts' are a load of bollocks FJ. As was pointed out in PMQT's yesterday. She was yet again called out and humiliated.
The results of her actions were documented on CH4.
Dexter Bristol:
He was asked to prove he was British - he could not.
He lost his job
He lost his home
He could not claim benefits
He was found dead in March.
He had lived in the UK since 1968
How can she sleep at night? Just fu cking how??? |
There has been a confirmation today that the decision was taken when Labour were in government and was confirmed and carried out when the coalition were in government. Presumably because these things tend to happen at a snail's pace and are operational decisions made way below the office of the Home Secretary whoever they may be.
Its irrelevant. The actual issue is the dropping of the catch-all clause protecting commonwealth citizens in 2014. | | | |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:26 - Apr 19 with 2574 views | theloneranger |
Interesting statement from Lord Kerslake on tv last night.
"The former head of the civil service, Lord Kerslake, said that some ministers were "deeply unhappy" about the introduction of the "hostile environment" strategy under then Home Secretary Theresa May. "
"Speaking to BBC Newsnight, Lord Kerslake, said some saw the policy, which has come under the spotlight during the Windrush row, "as almost reminiscent of Nazi Germany in the way it's working" |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:30 - Apr 19 with 2572 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:26 - Apr 19 by theloneranger |
Interesting statement from Lord Kerslake on tv last night.
"The former head of the civil service, Lord Kerslake, said that some ministers were "deeply unhappy" about the introduction of the "hostile environment" strategy under then Home Secretary Theresa May. "
"Speaking to BBC Newsnight, Lord Kerslake, said some saw the policy, which has come under the spotlight during the Windrush row, "as almost reminiscent of Nazi Germany in the way it's working" |
1) He refers to the time period of the coalition, something conveniently omitted - those ministers were almost certainly Lib Demmers.
2) Lord Kerslake is a Labour member and indeed an advisor to Corbyn.
The comments would be meaningful if made by somebody independent, but makes for a snappy soundbite. | | | |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:41 - Apr 19 with 2558 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:26 - Apr 19 by theloneranger |
Interesting statement from Lord Kerslake on tv last night.
"The former head of the civil service, Lord Kerslake, said that some ministers were "deeply unhappy" about the introduction of the "hostile environment" strategy under then Home Secretary Theresa May. "
"Speaking to BBC Newsnight, Lord Kerslake, said some saw the policy, which has come under the spotlight during the Windrush row, "as almost reminiscent of Nazi Germany in the way it's working" |
I doubt many of those ministers are old enough to reminisce about Nazi Germany and the way it worked.
I can't stand this government but hyperbole like that is laughable. |  |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:56 - Apr 19 with 2551 views | westwalesed |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:26 - Apr 19 by theloneranger |
Interesting statement from Lord Kerslake on tv last night.
"The former head of the civil service, Lord Kerslake, said that some ministers were "deeply unhappy" about the introduction of the "hostile environment" strategy under then Home Secretary Theresa May. "
"Speaking to BBC Newsnight, Lord Kerslake, said some saw the policy, which has come under the spotlight during the Windrush row, "as almost reminiscent of Nazi Germany in the way it's working" |
Amazing how Lord Kerslake, wo is well known to be an ulta-ally of Jeremy Corbyn, uses such language to denigrate the Prime Minister.
Also amazing how all those people who were calling for Boris Johnsons head when he compared Putin to Nazism are now amazingly quiet. | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:59 - Apr 19 with 2549 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:30 - Apr 19 by bluey_the_blue |
1) He refers to the time period of the coalition, something conveniently omitted - those ministers were almost certainly Lib Demmers.
2) Lord Kerslake is a Labour member and indeed an advisor to Corbyn.
The comments would be meaningful if made by somebody independent, but makes for a snappy soundbite. |
How very independent of you | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 15:36 - Apr 19 with 2531 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 14:59 - Apr 19 by oh_tommy_tommy |
How very independent of you |
Someone has to add the context people seem to deliberately ignore.
Knowlng Kerslake's political affiliations and indeed current influence mean people can then assess his comments and come to their own view as opposed to believing them with no context. | | | |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 16:07 - Apr 19 with 2520 views | max936 |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 13:09 - Apr 19 by oh_tommy_tommy |
Do you live in the uk or a different time zone .
She blatantly lied in parliament yesterday to Save answering thebquestions |
Don't Tommy just don't, everything's Blue in his eyes and Bluey the Blue hence the name. |  |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 16:08 - Apr 19 with 2516 views | max936 |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 10:01 - Apr 19 by bluey_the_blue |
Not really, no. In practice has zero impact. |
Ok Teresa. | |
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| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 16:22 - Apr 19 with 2514 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Those of you who like blaming the Government on 16:07 - Apr 19 by max936 |
Don't Tommy just don't, everything's Blue in his eyes and Bluey the Blue hence the name. |
Cool rant bro and probably true but you do know he was replying to someone else, hmm? | | | |
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